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[Daryl Fawcett]

Didn't I read a change in policy over at BSDA where identifying members of BSDA is allowed?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18980

[Bob Pickle]

That's true.

That being the case, what was the problem?

[princessdi]

That change was only for the 3ABN forum at the time because we could no longer babysit everyone.  Both sides were just childish with their campaigns to identify the other side.  It was still not allowed ares of the site.   It was like th wild, wild west in there with one person doing something to another member, and then reporting someone for doing that same thing to them.  PMs to the Admins, and especially Calvin just flying about who thought they were wronged that day.  Accusing us of being biased by both sides if we didn't side with them that day.  Working hard and making insinuations about who the opponent my be, where they live, go to church, etc., while fiercely clinging to their right to protect that same information about themselves, also posting annonymously.  It was just crazy, and so unchristian in was just plain scary.   I, for one, still believe it to be wrong, and I can only speak for Diane.  One's preferences should just be respected, simple.

As I siad Bob one more time, I will not argue with you.  This is the danger is the path you have taken in that even your basic judgement is skewed.  You are right, though, it was GJ post that I first read about Cindy being identified.  You just cosigned in your post.

I'm sorry, guys, I will just always see things different for a variety of reasons.  Number one being my relationship with God and if this would be an affront to him to offend one of His Children is such a way, and I am impressed that it would.

[GrandmaNettie]

I see what you are saying, Di.  I don't know if she currently posts here or not.  But I certainly could not gather that one way or the other from anything that was said here.  If anybody outed anybody, it was Clay with his silly little tantrum.

We'll save this discussion for another day.

And what about all the outing of people over at the 3ABNDefended Yahoo site and 3ABNtalk.com?  Any thoughts on that?  3ABN defenders over there have gone out of their way to FIND people who wanted to remain anonymous and have been downright nasty to them, dredging up stuff from their past and threatening to try to have them disfellowshiped from the SDA church, etc.   Made me pretty grateful NOT to be a member!  Unless people we know are talking, then the information obtained and presented there was obtained with a defective subpoena, and it is my understanding the defenders have been warned of that.

Let's discuss this point for a moment.  Over on BlackSDA is a thread in the 3abn archives called "Coming Out!"  It has, at this moment, nearly 11,000 views.  In the 3abn forum there was nastiness afoot, contentiousness and anger between members when this thread was created.  Oh what fun we all had being just plain silly, much to the chagrin, nay, disdain of a few.  Many of us got into the spirit of the fun and exposed ourselves as various leaders of 3abn as well as superheroes and arch villans.  Then, PB a.k.a. Danny Shelton a.k.a. Garwin McNeilus encouraged a friend to join in the fun and come out as Linda S.  He did.  This enraged Sister to the point that she jumped in, and in full meanspirited vitriol, outed FHB.

Sister's Outing of FHB on BlackSDA.com

Of course, as some of you know, it didn't stop there.  Is it possible that Sister created a tit for tat reaction in those who had been attacked?  Should Sister, or anyone else who takes such actions against others expect no repercussions?

No she didn't tell me that.  That is part of my point.  If they knew that she wanted to be annonymous on the internet....anywhere....then that should be respected.  My point is the same whether or not she is a member here.  Point is, they knew she wanted to remain annonymous, and should have respected that.

Just as with anyone who posts annonymously or even with a screen name(which most do) other than their own given name.  You address them as such until they give you permission to do differently.

Did she tell you that, PrincessDi?

My point is that you did know that Clay stated that you divulge the identity of a "member", however, I am almost sure that you understood that he was actually talking about you all "outing" Cindi anywhere on the internet when you knew she wished to remain annonymous..  It makes no difference that she is not a user/member here at AdventTalk, but that she preferred to remain annonymouse regarding this 3ABN situation.  If you put her full name out there without her permission, then nomatter what else your post said, the damage was done.  Simple.  

[/quote]

[Snoopy]

Oooohhhh - I get it now.  The ugliness of the 3ABN defenders on their various sites is justified by something sister did...  Yeah, right.

Let's discuss this point for a moment.  Over on BlackSDA is a thread in the 3abn archives called "Coming Out!"  It has, at this moment, nearly 11,000 views.  In the 3abn forum there was nastiness afoot, contentiousness and anger between members when this thread was created.  Oh what fun we all had being just plain silly, much to the chagrin, nay, disdain of a few.  Many of us got into the spirit of the fun and exposed ourselves as various leaders of 3abn as well as superheroes and arch villans.  Then, PB a.k.a. Danny Shelton a.k.a. Garwin McNeilus encouraged a friend to join in the fun and come out as Linda S.  He did.  This enraged Sister to the point that she jumped in, and in full meanspirited vitriol, outed FHB.

[GrandmaNettie]

Perhaps you missed the final part of my post.  My post went on to say:


"Of course, as some of you know, it didn't stop there. Is it possible that Sister created a tit for tat reaction in those who had been attacked?  Should Sister, or anyone else who takes such actions against others expect no repercussions? "

Where do I say anything about either's actions being justified?

Oooohhhh - I get it now.  The ugliness of the 3ABN defenders on their various sites is justified by something sister did...  Yeah, right.

Let's discuss this point for a moment.  Over on BlackSDA is a thread in the 3abn archives called "Coming Out!"  It has, at this moment, nearly 11,000 views.  In the 3abn forum there was nastiness afoot, contentiousness and anger between members when this thread was created.  Oh what fun we all had being just plain silly, much to the chagrin, nay, disdain of a few.  Many of us got into the spirit of the fun and exposed ourselves as various leaders of 3abn as well as superheroes and arch villans.  Then, PB a.k.a. Danny Shelton a.k.a. Garwin McNeilus encouraged a friend to join in the fun and come out as Linda S.  He did.  This enraged Sister to the point that she jumped in, and in full meanspirited vitriol, outed FHB.

[Bob Pickle]

As I siad Bob one more time, I will not argue with you.  This is the danger is the path you have taken in that even your basic judgement is skewed.  You are right, though, it was GJ post that I first read about Cindy being identified.  You just cosigned in your post.

I'm sorry, guys, I will just always see things different for a variety of reasons.  Number one being my relationship with God and if this would be an affront to him to offend one of His Children is such a way, and I am impressed that it would.

I repeat yet again, neither Gailon nor I identified Cindi Randall as a user of any forum anywhere. If someone is playing a major role in this saga, they might become part of the discussion, whether or not they post anonymously on some forum.

[Sister]

Oooohhhh - I get it now.  The ugliness of the 3ABN defenders on their various sites is justified by something sister did...  Yeah, right.

Let's discuss this point for a moment.  Over on BlackSDA is a thread in the 3abn archives called "Coming Out!"  It has, at this moment, nearly 11,000 views.  In the 3abn forum there was nastiness afoot, contentiousness and anger between members when this thread was created.  Oh what fun we all had being just plain silly, much to the chagrin, nay, disdain of a few.  Many of us got into the spirit of the fun and exposed ourselves as various leaders of 3abn as well as superheroes and arch villans.  Then, PB a.k.a. Danny Shelton a.k.a. Garwin McNeilus encouraged a friend to join in the fun and come out as Linda S.  He did.  This enraged Sister to the point that she jumped in, and in full meanspirited vitriol, outed FHB.

I want to address both items quoted above, first Grandma Nettie. If you read the post you at referring to you will see that I said: "the above quote has left a sour taste behind." To extrapolate from " a sour taste" to mean that I am enraged is a giant leap from reality into pure fantasy on your part, Grandma Nettie. Nor was my post in the lest mean spirited, let alone "full meanspirited vitriol". Grandma Nettie you are reporting what was not there. Shame on you... Did I spoil your foolish little game? Did that enrage you? Enraged, me? No. Disappointed in the silliness and insensitivity of those trashing Linda claiming to be her as part of a childish game? Yes.

Secondly, Snoopy said: "Oooohhhh - I get it now.  The ugliness of the 3ABN defenders on their various sites is justified by something sister did...  Yeah, right."  I hope Grandma Nettie understood your intent before she starts telling people you agree with her. She appears to have difficulty in understanding the spirit behind the words.

On another forum the following was said about me, maybe that is where Grandma Nettie gets her inspiration:

...in all FAIRNESS, you need to go read every post sister has ever made over on BSDA. SHE STARTED ALL THIS MESS. Sister is at the root of it all. You can go ahead and enjoy her--talking about food--but this woman is at the root of all this costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. She is in deep trouble and the lawyers know who she is. What she has done is no small thing.

Breezy

According to Breezy, I am the root of the entire mess surrounding 3ABN. Sorry Breezy, I only wrote about what Danny, Tommy and others did. It was their acts that brought this whole saga into play; they are now reaping the results of what they have sown. Additionally, I was not the first to post about 3ABN on BSDA. It was already in progress when I began writing An Unauthorized History of 3ABN.

[Sister]

The following was also posted about me on another forum:

Sister,... , also made her decisions to be the errand girl of Linda Shelton. Linda is no dummy. She knew she couldn't be the one to say anything against 3ABN or Danny or members of the BoD so she had to find someone to give her voice so she could keep receiving the payments which were part of her severance. Ever since sister began writing numerous individuals who knew her intimately have pointed out how the words of sister could come from no other source than Linda. She did violate the terms of her severance package, an action that in the business world would have led to a law suit and her having to repay the monies she received from 3ABN.

Sorry, for this person's blaring ignorance, but I have not in the past or am I now the "errand girl" of Linda Shelton. Also, Linda Shelton had no input into any part of An Unauthorized History of 3ABN. During the time I was writing it I had no contact with Linda Shelton. Neither the words or the content were influenced by Linda Shelton in any way. I had no contact with Linda or anyone else while I was writing. Everything I wrote came from other sources over a number of years. If they are trying to prove that Linda Shelton violated the terms of her severance package through communication with me, then they are barking up the wrong tree. The person who wrote the above claimed that "numerous individuals who knew her intimately have pointed out how the words of sister could come from no other source than Linda", were completely off track. Or perhaps they, the "numerous individuals", were merely a figment of the writers imagination, like so much that has been said by the Danny's defenders?

Secondly, how can I be both "the root of all this mess" and merely "the errand girl of Linda"? The DD (Danny Defenders) need to get together on their stories.

[childoftheking]

I hadn't read this post about who started it because I don't go there but the one who influenced me was judge Rowe and my reading of the government documents was very eye opening. The link to judge Rower's ruling was on one of the early forums. It wasn't blacksda that had the original link that I followed. And Club Adventist really got the discussion going.

[Bob Pickle]

Funny that Danny didn't sue Judge Rowe for saying that 3ABN gave Danny and Linda a jet to use on weekends, and sued me instead.

[anyman]

This is so completely illogical (not to mention whiny) . . . you are comparing apples and Boca Burgers . . .

You are not a judge, you are serving in no official capacity, you have no authority from which to support your actions . . .

This is so out there, it isn't in left field, it isn't outside the ball park . . . it is completely in another league . . .

Funny that Danny didn't sue Judge Rowe for saying that 3ABN gave Danny and Linda a jet to use on weekends, and sued me instead.

[Bob Pickle]

Fact is that she said it and Danny didn't sue her. Why not?

Fact is I never said it, only quoted her, and Danny sued me. Why?

[Michael Kopper]

its interesing what you find if you google randall and ohio and attorney. could cindi be a nikname.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

In any event, I have come to the conclusion that I am glad I did not trade Cindy for Bob!!! I just wish she had complained to my conference president, as Bob and I just got them out of a pickle and solved a monstrous little problem that was plaguing a semi-retired former conference president and several of his parishioners. And the little miscreant has decided to move back to his homeland to avoid prosecution. Another job well done, BOB!!!

Mr. Gailon,

I spoke to Frank Tochterman, President of the Southern New England Conference. And I spoke to Dr. Donald King, President of the Atlantic Union Conference. They have not heard of you. They have had nothing to do with you.

Can you please explain this discrepancy?

Thank you,
PB

Apparently, they have been very good boys and not screwed up enough to be the subject of an article recently.

 However, Dr. King is clearly just short memoried as I did write about his shifting direction in the Lashley re-election and then pressuring the votes to get Lashley re-elected president when his incompetence was well documented. The irony is that King fell victim to his own manipulations as Ben Schoun moved to Adventist World Radio and Dr. King was elected Union President. In fact, we reported that he took the job with a clear contingency that Lashley would resign shortly after King arrived at the Union. But, Lashley reneged and defied the AUC Chairman and Union President. Unfortunately for Lashley, accreditation and financial aid issues finally pinned him into a corner and Dr. King was forced to act.

Now we had already published the warning letter from NEASC regarding accreditation being probationary and about to be withdrawn. Sadly, King was one of the administrators that made it clear everyone should simply ignore us...and they did but NEASC did not accomodate...they cancelled accreditation for AUC.

Suddenly, King came belatedly alive and again asked for Lashley's resignation. Lashley said he would tender it and then his cronies convinced him to stand and fight. But with serious allegations regarding the misuse of Student Loan funds from the US Dept of Education (yes, we invoked freedom of information and received records regarding serious misappropriations that were on there way to a US Attorney's desk when Lashley finally caved with Carnegie, et al)  and the Babcock administration was born, albeit a perpetual financial exigency.

So, King clearly would prefer to forget us, but, we were there, reporting the facts as they came streaming into our office or over the fax machine. And King was a hindrance to reforms until it was way too late. But then they do not have to pay for their mistakes, we do!!!

I cannot explain Tochterman's memory. But it is worth asking him to explain it. I think I still have his number and his e-mail.

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon Arthur Joy