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[Bob Pickle]

Perhaps because it hadn't been that long since it got posted. Think so?

Very interesting question . . . wonder why there has been no answer yet . . .

In any event, I have come to the conclusion that I am glad I did not trade Cindy for Bob!!! I just wish she had complained to my conference president, as Bob and I just got them out of a pickle and solved a monstrous little problem that was plaguing a semi-retired former conference president and several of his parishioners. And the little miscreant has decided to move back to his homeland to avoid prosecution. Another job well done, BOB!!!

Mr. Gailon,

I spoke to Frank Tochterman, President of the Southern New England Conference. And I spoke to Dr. Donald King, President of the Atlantic Union Conference. They have not heard of you. They have had nothing to do with you.

Can you please explain this discrepancy?

Thank you,
PB

[pbjelly]

In any event, I have come to the conclusion that I am glad I did not trade Cindy for Bob!!! I just wish she had complained to my conference president, as Bob and I just got them out of a pickle and solved a monstrous little problem that was plaguing a semi-retired former conference president and several of his parishioners. And the little miscreant has decided to move back to his homeland to avoid prosecution. Another job well done, BOB!!!

Mr. Gailon,

I spoke to Frank Tochterman, President of the Southern New England Conference. And I spoke to Dr. Donald King, President of the Atlantic Union Conference. They have not heard of you. They have had nothing to do with you.

Can you please explain this discrepancy?

Thank you,
PB

PB,

I don't recall Gailon talking with Elder Tochterman at the time, but he may have. I know I talked with Elder Tochterman, but that doesn't mean that he will recall our conversation unless you share with him some of the content or the subject material.

At the same time, I don't think it necessarily fair to the wrong doer to give details that would expose the person to any more embarrassment than they already have, which details might be necessary to confirm what Gailon wrote.

Gailon would not have had to speak to Elder Tochterman in order to help resolve the problem. There were others than Elder Tochterman that could have used assistance at the time.

Mr. Bob,

I believe this question was directed to Mr. Gailon. I have put in red letters what Mr. Gailon posted.

Thank you
PB

[Snoopy]

Pbjelly,

Might I remind you that this is a public forum, so posts and questions are fair game for anyone who might want to respond.  If you have a specific question for a specific member, perhaps you would like to utilize the "Private Message" feature of the forum.

Snoopy

Mr. Bob,

I believe this question was directed to Mr. Gailon. I have put in red letters what Mr. Gailon posted.

Thank you
PB

[Bob Pickle]

In any event, I have come to the conclusion that I am glad I did not trade Cindy for Bob!!! I just wish she had complained to my conference president, as Bob and I just got them out of a pickle and solved a monstrous little problem that was plaguing a semi-retired former conference president and several of his parishioners. And the little miscreant has decided to move back to his homeland to avoid prosecution. Another job well done, BOB!!!

Mr. Gailon,

I spoke to Frank Tochterman, President of the Southern New England Conference. And I spoke to Dr. Donald King, President of the Atlantic Union Conference. They have not heard of you. They have had nothing to do with you.

Can you please explain this discrepancy?

Thank you,
PB

PB,

I don't recall Gailon talking with Elder Tochterman at the time, but he may have. I know I talked with Elder Tochterman, but that doesn't mean that he will recall our conversation unless you share with him some of the content or the subject material.

At the same time, I don't think it necessarily fair to the wrong doer to give details that would expose the person to any more embarrassment than they already have, which details might be necessary to confirm what Gailon wrote.

Gailon would not have had to speak to Elder Tochterman in order to help resolve the problem. There were others than Elder Tochterman that could have used assistance at the time.

Mr. Bob,

I believe this question was directed to Mr. Gailon. I have put in red letters what Mr. Gailon posted.

Thank you
PB

Yes, it was directed to Gailon.

I do not see a problem with the words in red.

It would not take much for Elder Tochterman to recall the incident and to understand Gailon's involvement.

[pbjelly]

Pbjelly,

Might I remind you that this is a public forum, so posts and questions are fair game for anyone who might want to respond.  If you have a specific question for a specific member, perhaps you would like to utilize the "Private Message" feature of the forum.

Snoopy

I apologize if it sounded rude. That was not my intention. It was Mr. Gailon who claimed that he helped his conference president with an important matter. But the conference president did not recall any such person. I believed that this should be addressed by Mr. Gailon. I hope that my response did not offend Mr. Bob.

[princessdi]

You could never disappoint me, Snoopy!  You know the love of the "Gathering" transcends our internet origins.    

Why were you surprised at my repsonse to that thread?  It was an admin nightmare when that forum was open.  Not eveyone was bad, but enough to keep us more busy than we wanted to be monitoring grown folks, and professed christians at that.  It was a bit disheartening.  However, I found some wonderful friends, as I said, and things always happen for a reason.

I had not responded to Clay's minirant because He can speak for himself, and definitely has already.  However, I can at least tell you that he is coming from a position of mutual respect, or the lack thereof.  Bob, GJ and others have chosen to reveal their identities.  Some for reasons of their own, have not.  That hsould be respected, no matter what side of this coin you fall on. Everyone knew that Cindi posted, not here but at BSDA under her screen name, and hse wished for it to remain that way.  I don't care where you posted on the internet about her, that should have been respected.  Simple.  Common respect and christian love should prevail.  Plus it shows a "conditional" loyalty and the moment you deviate from "the cause" you are now that enemy, and all is fair...in war......because there never was any love.  Now does that sound familiar?  

For me, this cause should be carefull that you[general] are so busy in this fight that you[general] you become that which you are fighting against.  I have to say that this need to "out" everyone was also my least favorite part of this.  My thing is when I disagree with someone, I have to acknowledge and respect that they feel as strongly about their position as I do mine.  Often we are trying to achieve the same goal with different ideas as to how to do that, So it is not about personal attacks, but the best way to reach the goal.  So I rarely "fall out" with people, it is just counter productive.

I definitely would appreciate an update via PM.  it can be Reader's Digest Version............Just the facts, Ma'am.....I know, i know aging myself, I did watch Dragnet each and every week!  

PrincessDi!!!!         AND       I was thrilled to see you sign up here!!

I can understand the feelings you have shared here, and I do so appreciate your forthrightness!!  (Is that a word?!)  And if I am one that has disappointed you, please accept my apology.

I must admit that I am one who has not come back to BSDA very often.  I do miss many of my friends there, but I must say that after receiving a 60 day ban, I was not anxious to go back to be honest!  I was wrong to respond to Clay the way I did, but I certainly did not deserve THAT!  I think it just happened at a time that was particularly stressful to Calvin.  And after reading Clay's recent "mini-rant", I really have no desire to go back there.  I don't know what his problem is, but he certainly has one.  I felt really bad for Calvin, as that must have been quite embarrassing to him.  I am actually surprised Calvin allowed that thread to remain, "on the world-wide web, no less"!!  I was also a bit taken aback to see your post agreeing with Clay, along with some others who posted there!!  But I still love you!!  The fact that Clay just kept going on and on and on with his "sleaze" diatribe until he finally "had the last word" and then closed the thread was unfortunate but not surprising.

There are many things that have changed with regard to the 3ABN case since I left BSDA.  I'll be happy to fill you in on them in private, if you like.

Anyway, I am glad you are here!!

Hugs,

Snoopy

Well, now, as a new member here, but new to very few here, I come to post my disappointments since this seems to be the place.  I have been comtemplating posting here because I felt that this 3ABN mess gets messier as time goes by, and as many of you know I had already stated at BSDA that to me the lines were getting blurred between the "good and bad guys".  i am not so sure that there is such a thing anymore.  

As you all know, I have always been upfront about the way I feel about anything.  Danny was wrong, I said that,  Bob and GJ were wrong, and I said that also.  ALL are my brothers in Christ, and I still love and see them as such. Guys(Bob and GJ), this IS another low blow.  By any means necessary has no room in God's work, because it often includes employing the devil's tools to do God's work, or at least attempting to .  Bob you came over to dispute Clay's comments, but I am nost sure that you thought it would occur to anyone that you disputed that you outed "a member" here........Cindi is not a member, is she?  That does not look good, Bob.  It is not at all christian.  If I am wrong with this, I apologize, but I dont' think so.

However, after posting quite a few months ago warning against continuing on this path, here you all are, and now you have turned on each other...........on the world wide web.......for Danny and his merry band to see.  What good does that do?

Just on a personal note, I am sorely disappointed in a great many of you who are still members at BSDA.  There were some who said that you ALL were just there to "use" us as the only site not scared to cross Danny and 3ABN, and most of you have proven that to be true, since you have not been back to fellowship since the 3ABN forum was closed.  I know you all probably still visit because there is a large amount of documentation still there and available to read.  However, because you could not sprew new venom daily, you have fled to place where you can.  

Now I quoted Snoopy's post, mainly because she is pretty special to me.  She, Cindi, and others here are the best.  We are kind of a group within a group.  It is not secret that I did not think much of GJ(ain't mad atcha, just not pleased with this choice) for sending folks to post for him at BSDA, but it makes it worse that he now posts freely here.  There is also at least one member who would come even into LC to "meet" with someone in PM, barely taking time to speak or be courteous to those already in the room.  That is just plain rude.  

In case you all don't recognize them, I am talking about just common courtesy, respect and christian love.  You all are so hell bent on this course that it defines even your love or even common courtesy, respect to each other.  I urge you all again, to think about what you are doing.  Not saying give up by saying saying Danny was right, he was wrong.  I thought this a noble and christian cause in the beginning, because I truly believe that those who put themselves on the front lines on "the battlefield" should at least attempt to be right.  I still believe tha Danny is so far gone in his wrong that he can't see a way back without admitting he was wrong(which there isn't, but even so it is still not to far for God.  However, I urge you all to take a look at where this particular path has lead you, what you have sacrificed, how it virtually consumes you lives, shapes your shoices.  

Ok so now that I have voiced my disappointments, I will gladly answer any rebuttals to my post, but I won't fight about it.  

Neither will I get too deep in the 3ABN mess.  however, I do have one question.  I do know that Danny was leaving no stone unturned trying to find out the annonymous members true identities.  As I read this thread I saw that someone mentioned that they cheated and found out some identites, or something to that effect.  Can some just explain that to me?  I am curious as someone who was named on the subpoena and my dientity was alaready known.  So, it was suggested and I am assuming that I was mentioned because I might be "urged" to assist them in their quest....NOT!  

I still do wish you all God joy, peace, and wisdom. I do still love you all with Our Father's Love.

I had to go look just out of curiousity and came away JUST SHAKING MY HEAD (to steal a phrase from someone I once trusted).

Things have really changed over there for Calvin to allow that kind of garbage - and from a moderator.  Too bad.

Perhaps the woman had the gall to call up Clay at BSDA too. Someone called or contacted him and he launched a bitter attack, falsely accusing me of outing a member.

I would like to invite Cindi Randall, wherever she is, to send me written disapproval of Clay's statements on BSDA. I could then post it here for her.

[Sister]

PrincessDi, good to see you here. I still go over and read at BSDA, have posted a few times and played in the arcade. I was probably the one who spent more time in private conversations in the LC, than public. I did join in a few times in the public LC, but too often questions came up that were difficult for me to answer because of my need to keep my identity hidden. If you would like a further explanation PM me.

I am more active here in the "Healthy Choices" section here, than in the 3ABN area. For a few months, I neither read or posted much of anywhere, I was just too burned out and having some health problems...

To be honest I went back and forth so much with "Clay", over the content in the 3ABN area, that I was just got tired of his rants and having to remain silent in order to stroke his ego.

I really appreciated the opportunity that Calvin gave me with the expansion of the 3ABN section and I have told him so.

There were many members at BSDA who were very supportive and you were one of them. Thank you for your kindness during some very difficult situations.

[Bob Pickle]

Pbjelly,

Might I remind you that this is a public forum, so posts and questions are fair game for anyone who might want to respond.  If you have a specific question for a specific member, perhaps you would like to utilize the "Private Message" feature of the forum.

Snoopy

I apologize if it sounded rude. That was not my intention. It was Mr. Gailon who claimed that he helped his conference president with an important matter. But the conference president did not recall any such person. I believed that this should be addressed by Mr. Gailon. I hope that my response did not offend Mr. Bob.

No problem.

Gailon definitely helped. But that doesn't mean that everyone involved will automatically know who did what, or recall the matter without a few details being added in.

If you absolutely need more info, feel free to PM or call.

[Snoopy]

Only because I couldn't tell if you were agreeing with the "sleaze" comment or the opinion that you were glad the 3ABN discussion had moved...  As I have learned    I am certain it was an "admin nightmare"!!  I have a whole new respect for moderators!!

You could never disappoint me, Snoopy!  You know the love of the "Gathering" transcends our internet origins.    

Why were you surprised at my repsonse to that thread?  It was an admin nightmare when that forum was open.  Not eveyone was bad, but enough to keep us more busy than we wanted to be monitoring grown folks, and professed christians at that.  It was a bit disheartening.  However, I found some wonderful friends, as I said, and things always happen for a reason.

[GrandmaNettie]

Sis `Di!!!! Welcome to Adventtalk.  Your thoughts and perspectives are so welcome.

My only comments on some of the content of your post would be that as those lines between the "good and bad guys" have blurred, we would be wise to take a second look at the facts in this saga.  Some of the things we once took as confirmed are now somewhat uncertain as we see some of the tactics used.  I know you have experiences from far before I was a member at BSDA and before Bob and Gailon began their investigation that have led to your present position on some things.  I am, instead, referring specifically to some of the other matters that have been presented by The Investigators.

I admit that it has been discouraging to discover that some who I once considered ethical and trustworthy have  stated things that are both terribly unkind and untrue, and some that I still count as friends have chosen to believe those untruths.

I hope there will come a point when there will be a return to "common courtesy, respect and christian love".  If there isn't, no matter who "wins", everyone who hasn't practiced them loses something far greater.

Well, now, as a new member here, but new to very few here, I come to post my disappointments since this seems to be the place.  I have been comtemplating posting here because I felt that this 3ABN mess gets messier as time goes by, and as many of you know I had already stated at BSDA that to me the lines were getting blurred between the "good and bad guys".  i am not so sure that there is such a thing anymore.  

As you all know, I have always been upfront about the way I feel about anything.  Danny was wrong, I said that,  Bob and GJ were wrong, and I said that also.  ALL are my brothers in Christ, and I still love and see them as such. Guys(Bob and GJ), this IS another low blow.  By any means necessary has no room in God's work, because it often includes employing the devil's tools to do God's work, or at least attempting to .  Bob you came over to dispute Clay's comments, but I am nost sure that you thought it would occur to anyone that you disputed that you outed "a member" here........Cindi is not a member, is she?  That does not look good, Bob.  It is not at all christian.  If I am wrong with this, I apologize, but I dont' think so.

However, after posting quite a few months ago warning against continuing on this path, here you all are, and now you have turned on each other...........on the world wide web.......for Danny and his merry band to see.  What good does that do?

Just on a personal note, I am sorely disappointed in a great many of you who are still members at BSDA.  There were some who said that you ALL were just there to "use" us as the only site not scared to cross Danny and 3ABN, and most of you have proven that to be true, since you have not been back to fellowship since the 3ABN forum was closed.  I know you all probably still visit because there is a large amount of documentation still there and available to read.  However, because you could not sprew new venom daily, you have fled to place where you can.  

Now I quoted Snoopy's post, mainly because she is pretty special to me.  She, Cindi, and others here are the best.  We are kind of a group within a group.  It is not secret that I did not think much of GJ(ain't mad atcha, just not pleased with this choice) for sending folks to post for him at BSDA, but it makes it worse that he now posts freely here.  There is also at least one member who would come even into LC to "meet" with someone in PM, barely taking time to speak or be courteous to those already in the room.  That is just plain rude.  

In case you all don't recognize them, I am talking about just common courtesy, respect and christian love.  You all are so hell bent on this course that it defines even your love or even common courtesy, respect to each other.  I urge you all again, to think about what you are doing.  Not saying give up by saying saying Danny was right, he was wrong.  I thought this a noble and christian cause in the beginning, because I truly believe that those who put themselves on the front lines on "the battlefield" should at least attempt to be right.  I still believe tha Danny is so far gone in his wrong that he can't see a way back without admitting he was wrong(which there isn't, but even so it is still not to far for God.  However, I urge you all to take a look at where this particular path has lead you, what you have sacrificed, how it virtually consumes you lives, shapes your shoices.  

Ok so now that I have voiced my disappointments, I will gladly answer any rebuttals to my post, but I won't fight about it.  

Neither will I get too deep in the 3ABN mess.  however, I do have one question.  I do know that Danny was leaving no stone unturned trying to find out the annonymous members true identities.  As I read this thread I saw that someone mentioned that they cheated and found out some identites, or something to that effect.  Can some just explain that to me?  I am curious as someone who was named on the subpoena and my dientity was alaready known.  So, it was suggested and I am assuming that I was mentioned because I might be "urged" to assist them in their quest....NOT!  

I still do wish you all God joy, peace, and wisdom. I do still love you all with Our Father's Love.

I had to go look just out of curiousity and came away JUST SHAKING MY HEAD (to steal a phrase from someone I once trusted).

Things have really changed over there for Calvin to allow that kind of garbage - and from a moderator.  Too bad.

Perhaps the woman had the gall to call up Clay at BSDA too. Someone called or contacted him and he launched a bitter attack, falsely accusing me of outing a member.

I would like to invite Cindi Randall, wherever she is, to send me written disapproval of Clay's statements on BSDA. I could then post it here for her.

[Bob Pickle]

Everyone knew that Cindi posted, not here but at BSDA under her screen name, and hse wished for it to remain that way.

I do not think that because someone once posts anonymously on a single forum that that prevents others from discussing them in a way that does not connect them to any forum at all.

Here's the history: Gailon made a cryptic post that referred to "Cindy," and Attorney Randall called Daryl Fawcett and complained. She also called Daryl's conference president and complained, which pressured Daryl to edit Gailon's post.

But Gailon did not associate "Cindy" with any username on any forum, not AT or BSDA or any other forum.

My attempted and actual explanations of Gailon's cryptic post also did not associate Attorney Randall with any user on any forum. There are a lot of Cindy/i's in the world, and how would anyone know that BSDA had a Cindi if they didn't already know that BSDA had a Cindi?

I have to say that this need to "out" everyone was also my least favorite part of this.

That had nothing to do with Gailon and my posts.

[Bob Pickle]

Some of the things we once took as confirmed are now somewhat uncertain as we see some of the tactics used.

What specifically are you referring to as now being uncertain?

I admit that it has been discouraging to discover that some who I once considered ethical and trustworthy have  stated things that are both terribly unkind and untrue, and some that I still count as friends have chosen to believe those untruths.

Just because anyman stoops so low as to call me a liar 25 different ways without being able to give a single example of such doesn't make it so.

So what specifically are you referring to as being unethical or untrue?

[princessdi]

Hi princessdi.

I don't quite follow you, so pardon me if I don't answer the right question.

I took Clay's comments to be an assertion that Attorney Cindi Randall is a user here. I certainly never made that claim, but I thought Clay was making that claim.

Further, I never made the claim here that Attorney Cindi Randall was a user on BSDA or any other forum. Never hinted at it either.  

The best spin I can put on Clay's rant is that he took an unconfirmed rumor or claim and ran with it, making false accusations, without checking it out to see if it was so. His thread gives no hint that he ever read what I actually wrote.

My point is that you did know that Clay stated that you divulge the identity of a "member", however, I am almost sure that you understood that he was actually talking about you all "outing" Cindi anywhere on the internet when you knew she wished to remain annonymous..  It makes no difference that she is not a user/member here at AdventTalk, but that she preferred to remain annonymouse regarding this 3ABN situation.  If you put her full name out there without her permission, then nomatter what else your post said, the damage was done.  Simple.  

princessdi, I can't speak for anyone else other than myself, but since I've been sued, I'm spread pretty thin. I just don't have the time to engage in a lot of discussion on various topics, though I do take a diversion now and then.

Understood

I just don't have the money to hire a lawyer and let him do all the work. But then, how much money would I need to have?

My post has nothing to do with who represents you in court, but the path you take in defending yourself.  Simple question:  Will you win the case, but will that path to that victory cause you to lose your soul?

Danny and 3ABN's lawyers got user information for certain users. Email addresses in user accounts can be identifying. Even IP addresses can help identify people, though using them is a bit tough. Make sense?

Oh i definitely understnad that my name was included because they thought I could indentify some of the posters they wished to unveil and drag into court.  Like I really was going to help them out, right?  However, as my Mother says, nothing beats a failure but a try.  They tired, they failed.  What can I say?

[Snoopy]

I am in definite agreement with the bolded portions of GrandmaNettie's statements.

Sis `Di!!!! Welcome to Adventtalk.  Your thoughts and perspectives are so welcome.

My only comments on some of the content of your post would be that as those lines between the "good and bad guys" have blurred, we would be wise to take a second look at the facts in this saga.  Some of the things we once took as confirmed are now somewhat uncertain as we see some of the tactics used.  I know you have experiences from far before I was a member at BSDA and before Bob and Gailon began their investigation that have led to your present position on some things.  I am, instead, referring specifically to some of the other matters that have been presented by The Investigators.

I admit that it has been discouraging to discover that some who I once considered ethical and trustworthy have  stated things that are both terribly unkind and untrue, and some that I still count as friends have chosen to believe those untruths.

I hope there will come a point when there will be a return to "common courtesy, respect and christian love".  If there isn't, no matter who "wins", everyone who hasn't practiced them loses something far greater.

[Snoopy]

Did she tell you that, PrincessDi?

My point is that you did know that Clay stated that you divulge the identity of a "member", however, I am almost sure that you understood that he was actually talking about you all "outing" Cindi anywhere on the internet when you knew she wished to remain annonymous..  It makes no difference that she is not a user/member here at AdventTalk, but that she preferred to remain annonymouse regarding this 3ABN situation.  If you put her full name out there without her permission, then nomatter what else your post said, the damage was done.  Simple.