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[Bob Pickle]

No one said this at all, but on the other hand,I do believe my church would report a theft by me to the authorities and not make any other move till the civil authority had it's say.
Partly I believe that my little church would do that out of compassion while still allowing me to have the discipline.

And so if you were church treasurer and got caught red-handed embezzling, your church would report you to the local authorities but refuse to take your office away until you had been convicted in a court of law? Thus you would remain church treasurer? And that is compassion? Somehow I don't think so.

[bonnie]

And so if you were church treasurer and got caught red-handed embezzling, your church would report you to the local authorities but refuse to take your office away until you had been convicted in a court of law? Thus you would remain church treasurer? And that is compassion? Somehow I don't think so.

It was not said clear enough so I can see why you would think that is what I meant.
You are right as far as in remaining chruch treasurer.  I had thought that would be a given and that was not included in my saying the "Church " would wait for any further action as removing my membership until the authorities were done. If it was a charge of "molestation or abuse" of a child,there are things that would be done but for any final action that would wait until a through investigation had been made by civil and the church before terminating my membership. In most cases that would involve a civil crime rather than one of church membership they would wait ti the authoriites had their investigation generally speaking.

A molestation charge would generate and immediate investigation by my church elders  I would be watched, any office would be suspended. To me that is different than the direction you seemed to heading.
It was not said clear enough so I can see why you would think that.

In a private case similar to 3ABN,not they would not request my tax forms nor investigate tax fraud prior to the IRS. That is out of their field. In the divorce,I dont think much would be done. DS says she did, and LS says she did not.  Again, as long as it is not clear cut as to who was the guilty party and each blaming the other of lying I really don't think they would

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

In a private case similar to 3ABN,not they would not request my tax forms nor investigate tax fraud prior to the IRS. That is out of their field. In the divorce,I dont think much would be done. DS says she did, and LS says she did not.  Again, as long as it is not clear cut as to who was the guilty party and each blaming the other of lying I really don't think they would

It is VERY CLEAR who the guilty party was and who was not. Only the blind could possibly still question who is guitly. The evidence is just too great against Danny Lee Shelton and his co-conspirator, Brenda Walsh, and we will shortly put any debate to a rest as we demonstrate a truism...once a liar, always a liar.

The foundations of Faith at 3ABN are about to be shattered as the truth about Brenda Walsh rolls out...factually challenged is an understatement. It is probable she was guilty of stealing Linda Sue Shelton's legacy and defaming her into oblivion, at 3ABN and in the World Church. If this is correct, then this must be corrected and Brenda Walsh should be crucified for what she has done.

Linda did NOTHING to violate due process and get dumped. And certainly did not deserve slander and defamation by Brenda Walsh.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[bonnie]

It is VERY CLEAR who the guilty party was and who was not. Only the blind could possibly still question who is guilty. The evidence is just too great against Danny Lee Shelton and his co-conspirator, Brenda Walsh, and we will shortly put any debate to a rest as we demonstrate a truism...once a liar, always a liar.

Not necessarily, and not at all for those blindly backing DS,Probably for those blindly backing LS

The foundations of Faith at 3ABN are about to be shattered as the truth about Brenda Walsh rolls out...factually challenged is an understatement. It is probable she was guilty of stealing Linda Sue Shelton's legacy and defaming her into oblivion, at 3ABN and in the World Church. If this is correct, then this must be corrected and Brenda Walsh should be crucified for what she has done.

Interesting. Is someone looking forward to the Crucifixion

 

Linda did NOTHING to violate due process and get dumped. And certainly did not deserve slander and defamation by Brenda Walsh.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[/quote]

[Bob Pickle]

A molestation charge would generate and immediate investigation by my church elders  I would be watched, any office would be suspended. To me that is different than the direction you seemed to heading.

It's possible that I said something definite somewhere, but I would think that in most places if not all I simply referred to church discipline. Such takes two forms in the Adventist Church: vote of censure, and disfellowship.

With a vote of censure one loses one's offices. So what I think you are referring to as suspension of offices would be a form of church discipline.

In my opinion, a mere accusation would not be a basis for church discipline. On the other hand, if you've got 7 fellows who claim molestation and an eye witness, I would not think that the church should refuse to consider discipline just because the authorities decline to prosecute.

[Rosa]

And so if you were church treasurer and got caught red-handed embezzling, your church would report you to the local authorities but refuse to take your office away until you had been convicted in a court of law? Thus you would remain church treasurer? And that is compassion? Somehow I don't think so.

It was not said clear enough so I can see why you would think that is what I meant.
You are right as far as in remaining chruch treasurer.  I had thought that would be a given and that was not included in my saying the "Church " would wait for any further action as removing my membership until the authorities were done......

...... That is out of their field. In the divorce,I dont think much would be done. DS says she did, and LS says she did not.  Again, as long as it is not clear cut as to who was the guilty party and each blaming the other of lying I really don't think they would

Bonnie, You may or may not have read the following letters Between the Thompsonville Church and Linda Shelton regarding Church discipline and the choices she made. If not, here you go:

http://tiny.cc/a2BCU

A molestation charge would generate and immediate investigation by my church elders  I would be watched, any office would be suspended. To me that is different than the direction you seemed to heading.

It's possible that I said something definite somewhere, but I would think that in most places if not all I simply referred to church discipline. Such takes two forms in the Adventist Church: vote of censure, and disfellowship.

With a vote of censure one loses one's offices. So what I think you are referring to as suspension of offices would be a form of church discipline.

In my opinion, a mere accusation would not be a basis for church discipline. On the other hand, if you've got 7 fellows who claim molestation and an eye witness, I would not think that the church should refuse to consider discipline just because the authorities decline to prosecute.

Mr Pickle's example is a clear reference to the allegations he has published and assisted in getting published against Tommy Shelton.

As usual it's all a bit muddy.. The discussion is seemingly about Church discipline in our Church (also known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church) but Mr Pickles example is of someone who is a member of the Church of God, (T.S.) and outside our churches jurisdiction. None of the alleged victims are members of the SDA church either.

From my own inquiries it does appear one adult married man, and employee of 3abn at the time, made a complaint against TS, but in a later meeting with TS and the 3ABN President retracted it and aplogised.

The truth is Pastor Glenn Dryden of the Church of God and one of Pickle's main informants has brought up Tommy Shelton to his Church of God board, long since, and nothing has happened...

The truth also is Pickle issued a subpoena to Glenn Dryden a while back for all information he had regarding Tommy Shelton and the allegations against him and asking for all documentation and any evidence or proof he had to support such.

That Subpoena was not objected to nor fought that I know of... yet Pickle continues to go fishing for evidence and proof, and yes, apparently obsess about this topic...

Just one example of some things that can make you go hmmm...

[bonnie]

Bonnie, You may or may not have read the following letters Between the Thompsonville Church and Linda Shelton regarding Church discipline and the choices she made. If not, here you go:

 

 This means what,I have read them. I see the church acting on what DS said.
The very first thing I read on this,and I believe it was on C/A that DS accused LS of spiritual adultery. There isn't any such animal as far as I know. Then when that wasn't working well we switched to physical adultery, then oops,you will have to wait because we aren't going to provide as we "don't want to damage LS reputation", we will hint, we will promise proof if we are forced to,etc.

By now it is a moot point whether she committed adultery. I believe DS knew just what he was doing and did it well.
In the minds of many LS committed adultery.

Mr Pickle's example is a clear reference to the allegations he has published and assisted in getting published against Tommy Shelton.

Neither side gives me the warm fuzzies on this.

As usual it's all a bit muddy.. The discussion is seemingly about Church discipline in our Church (also known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church) but Mr Pickles example is of someone who is a member of the Church of God, (T.S.) and outside our churches jurisdiction. None of the alleged victims are members of the SDA church either.

I understand that. I think the point was trying to be made that because he was now working on 3ABN it had become an issue of interest. I have said before and now again for your information.
I believe what has been said based TS own letter. I have also said if the "alleged victims themselves did come forward and file charges there would be little that could be done. Had TS reoffended it would not have reflected on the Church of God but on the adventist church.
I agree however this was a ruse to bring it out in the open.  To me that does not dismiss the respsonsibility that DS had in placing TS in a position of trust among  potential unsuspecting .vulnerable  victims.

From my own inquiries it does appear one adult married man, and employee of 3abn at the time, made a complaint against TS, but in a later meeting with TS and the 3ABN President retracted it and aplogised.

This is not unusual at all. That alone should have signalled to DS that his brother was not qualified to be in a postion of trust.

The truth is Pastor Glenn Dryden of the Church of God and one of Pickle's main informants has brought up Tommy Shelton to his Church of God board, long since, and nothing has happened.

If the alleged victims did not and can't come forward there is little anyone can do. I well understand the feeling of being the Lone Ranger in trying to do something where the person making the complaint is a 3rd party.
I have little sympathy for DS or TS in this. I do believe the "alleged victims" I also know there is little to be done as a church in this

The truth also is Pickle issued a subpoena to Glenn Dryden a while back for all information he had regarding Tommy Shelton and the allegations against him and asking for all documentation and any evidence or proof he had to support such.

SO?? In a lawsuit either side will be issuing subpoena's in hopes of finding enough to throw and hoping something sticks to the wall.

That Subpoena was not objected to nor fought that I know of... yet Pickle continues to go fishing for evidence and proof, and yes, apparently obsess about this topic...

Just one example of some things that can make you go hmmm...

Personally both sides make me go hmmm.


Many things in this I read and it sounds plausible,on the other hand I also hear a dead silence when we start discussing the IRS and personal income.
You can repeat till the second coming that the horse issue is clean and I will repeat till the second coming I do not believe DS or DS defenders and that makes me go himmmmm.

 On DS stated income he could not have purchased several horses,baler,rake,mower,tractor, hay elevator,vet,farrier,grain ,hired help,to say nothing of building a barn. DS would have to have  three people for hay, Paying for two of them gets mighty costly as I would believe they had to be paid.

I see other things here that make me think of silly putty as  you can take what someone says and twist,pull and work it to get the shape you want.

A couple on both sides make me go hmmmm quite frequently

edited to correct formatting

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

And so if you were church treasurer and got caught red-handed embezzling, your church would report you to the local authorities but refuse to take your office away until you had been convicted in a court of law? Thus you would remain church treasurer? And that is compassion? Somehow I don't think so.

It was not said clear enough so I can see why you would think that is what I meant.
You are right as far as in remaining chruch treasurer.  I had thought that would be a given and that was not included in my saying the "Church " would wait for any further action as removing my membership until the authorities were done......

...... That is out of their field. In the divorce,I dont think much would be done. DS says she did, and LS says she did not.  Again, as long as it is not clear cut as to who was the guilty party and each blaming the other of lying I really don't think they would

Bonnie, You may or may not have read the following letters Between the Thompsonville Church and Linda Shelton regarding Church discipline and the choices she made. If not, here you go:

http://tiny.cc/a2BCU

A molestation charge would generate and immediate investigation by my church elders  I would be watched, any office would be suspended. To me that is different than the direction you seemed to heading.

It's possible that I said something definite somewhere, but I would think that in most places if not all I simply referred to church discipline. Such takes two forms in the Adventist Church: vote of censure, and disfellowship.

With a vote of censure one loses one's offices. So what I think you are referring to as suspension of offices would be a form of church discipline.

In my opinion, a mere accusation would not be a basis for church discipline. On the other hand, if you've got 7 fellows who claim molestation and an eye witness, I would not think that the church should refuse to consider discipline just because the authorities decline to prosecute.

Mr Pickle's example is a clear reference to the allegations he has published and assisted in getting published against Tommy Shelton.

As usual it's all a bit muddy.. The discussion is seemingly about Church discipline in our Church (also known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church) but Mr Pickles example is of someone who is a member of the Church of God, (T.S.) and outside our churches jurisdiction. None of the alleged victims are members of the SDA church either.

From my own inquiries it does appear one adult married man, and employee of 3abn at the time, made a complaint against TS, but in a later meeting with TS and the 3ABN President retracted it and aplogised.

The truth is Pastor Glenn Dryden of the Church of God and one of Pickle's main informants has brought up Tommy Shelton to his Church of God board, long since, and nothing has happened...

The truth also is Pickle issued a subpoena to Glenn Dryden a while back for all information he had regarding Tommy Shelton and the allegations against him and asking for all documentation and any evidence or proof he had to support such.

That Subpoena was not objected to nor fought that I know of... yet Pickle continues to go fishing for evidence and proof, and yes, apparently obsess about this topic...

Just one example of some things that can make you go hmmm...

ROSA; my dear import from where?

Your  ENGLISH is so much better of late. See how easy it is to ASSIMILATE right into American Society when you set your mind to it???

But, your grasp of the facts is VERY CHALLENGED. Just to bring you up to date, Linda belatedly faced discipline from John Lomacang, purportedly a minister of some gospel, based upon representations made to John by Danny Lee Shelton and Brenda Walsh. Almost every allegation, when properly investigated by an intelligent man of the cloth, are found to be factually challenged. In some cases, such as much of Brenda Walsh's story, they are bold faced lies!!! Yes, bold faced and the physical evidence proves it.

Linda was asked to appear and felt restrained by her "gag agreement" with 3ABN and DLS. She asked requested the "gag agreement be lifted so she could appear and give CORRECT testimony and defned herself against baseless bold faced lies. Danny, according to the Conference Prsident tried to avoid a confrontation is such a public arena by pushing the Conference President to get Lomacang to give up the disciplinary process. After all, why waken a sleeping ginat of a lie to public discussion again? Then they simply denied Linda's request to lift the gag agreement and she had no alternative but to withdraw her membership.

But, a woman so new to America and the American Legal sysytem could get pretty tangled as you muddled your way through all the "protect Danny Lee Shelton from justice" spin, couldn't you.

Put on the TRUTH glasses, test every assertion by the physical evidence and you will find what we belatedly discovered...they arer FACTUALLY CHALLENGED...that is another way to say a lie through there teeth a lot in their effort to justify the unjustifiable. Only a trial on the merits and a countercalim for mis-use of process will cure this dillemma and we intend to put them through the TRUTH GRINDER!!!

And if you wonder why we feel so strongly, why don't you ask these bold faced liars why they fear our looking at the proof that demonstrates repeatedly that what we have said is in fact the TRUTH. Time after time, even to issues in the board of directors, they claim we lie and yet when the truth is produced, such as directors minutes, VOILA, it was the TRUTH!!! Go figure..can you see why they fear producing anything else and why they fear going to trial?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Donna]

Many things in this I read and it sounds plausible,on the other hand I also hear a dead silence when we start discussing the IRS and personal income.
You can repeat till the second coming that the horse issue is clean and I will repeat till the second coming I do not believe DS or DS defenders and that makes me go himmmmm.

 On DS stated income he could not have purchased several horses,baler,rake,mower,tractor, hay elevator,vet,farrier,grain ,hired help,to say nothing of building a barn. DS would have to have  three people for hay, Paying for two of them gets mighty costly as I would believe they had to be paid.

I see other things here that make me think of silly putty as  you can take what someone says and twist,pull and work it to get the shape you want.

A couple on both sides make me go hmmmm quite frequently

edited to correct formatting

Folks, yes on the subject of personal income and IRS there is silence because the investigation of DS and 3ABN is over and they have been found clean.  The subject is moot. We could all talk about it until the end of time and it will not change a thing.

A lot of things that are brought up here can be as Bonnie states, silly putty. We could all play around with making up a story with each adding to it sentence by sentence. As to whether it is the truth or not no one seems to care.
Let me give you a couple truths that show just how silly this all has been.

1. A volunteer farmer who happens to like Danny and 3ABN supplied all of the hay equipment and did nearly all the haying for free.

2. A man who helped care for the horses did so on his own time.  He said the Lord impressed him to donate his time to help Danny when he was traveling and needed help. Sometimes he would even help when Danny did not travel and again on his own time.  He started work at 3ABN at 8:00. He helped with Danny's horses at 7:30.

None of what some are saying has any bearing on anything except on each of us personally when we have to answer for what we have said and done.

edited to add quotes

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Folks, yes on the subject of personal income and IRS there is silence because the investigation of DS and 3ABN is over and they have been found clean.  The subject is moot. We could all talk about it until the end of time and it will not change a thing.

PROVE IT!!!! We have requested a subpoena for the US Attorney to see just how much truth and falacy there is to this statement. If you cannot prove it, we intend to and lay it to rest once and for all. Now, if it happens the file is still open, you going to move away from the dark side?

A lot of things that are brought up here can be as Bonnie states, silly putty. We could all play around with making up a story with each adding to it sentence by sentence. As to whether it is the truth or not no one seems to care.
Let me give you a couple truths that show just how silly this all has been.

1. A volunteer farmer who happens to like Danny and 3ABN supplied all of the hay equipment and did nearly all the haying for free.

PROVE IT!!!!. I want the "volunteer farmers' name address and telephone number. And I need your name and address so we can get your testimony on that story. I want to make sure you make the witness list as I have a couple of rebuttal witnesses that will turn your face VERY RED, and it may lead to some hypertension as well!!!

2. A man who helped care for the horses did so on his own time.  He said the Lord impressed him to donate his time to help Danny when he was traveling and needed help. Sometimes he would even help when Danny did not travel and again on his own time.  He started work at 3ABN at 8:00. He helped with Danny's horses at 7:30.

PROVE IT!!!NAME ADDRESS< PHONE NUMBER for this "impressed" human being so we can speak to him and get the REAL STORY

None of what some are saying has any bearing on anything except on each of us personally when we have to answer for what we have said and done.

edited to add quotes

]
There you are DONNA, we need name address and phone numbers so we can check out your tale. Who knows, maybe we have a couple dozen 3ABN employees, past and present, that are factually challenged. You have a duty to let us know.

Oh, but I can see your face glowing red already? Hypertension? or the truth taking its toll?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[bonnie]

Folks, yes on the subject of personal income and IRS there is silence because the investigation of DS and 3ABN is over and they have been found clean.  The subject is moot. We could all talk about it until the end of time and it will not change a thing.

No, not if he is using funds from 3ABN for personal use, it is not and never will be moot.

1. A volunteer farmer who happens to like Danny and 3ABN supplied all of the hay equipment and did nearly all the haying for free.

This story as changed considerably, It has gone from family helping with all of this and then when they couldn't ,it was hired help. And let's not forget that we shouldn't mind if the Lord blessed DS income

2. A man who helped care for the horses did so on his own time.  He said the Lord impressed him to donate his time to help Danny when he was traveling and needed help. Sometimes he would even help when Danny did not travel and again on his own time.  He started work at 3ABN at 8:00. He helped with Danny's horses at 7:30.

Nope, it was family help, DS doing and then paying for hired help when they couldn't.

I think  both sides are well stocked with silly putty

[Donna]

1. A volunteer farmer who happens to like Danny and 3ABN supplied all of the hay equipment and did nearly all the haying for free.

This story as changed considerably, It has gone from family helping with all of this and then when they couldn't ,it was hired help. And let's not forget that we shouldn't mind if the Lord blessed DS income

2. A man who helped care for the horses did so on his own time.  He said the Lord impressed him to donate his time to help Danny when he was traveling and needed help. Sometimes he would even help when Danny did not travel and again on his own time.  He started work at 3ABN at 8:00. He helped with Danny's horses at 7:30.

Nope, it was family help, DS doing and then paying for hired help when they couldn't.

All are correct.

[bonnie]

All are correct.

Sorry Donna, do not believe what you are saying. It is possible you are repeating what you were told, but it is not the truth. When I have more time and feel so inclined I may explain to you why it is not

[Donna]

Don't waste your time Bonnie. Nothing you can say can or will change the truth.

[Donna]

Folks, yes on the subject of personal income and IRS there is silence because the investigation of DS and 3ABN is over and they have been found clean.  The subject is moot. We could all talk about it until the end of time and it will not change a thing.

PROVE IT!!!! We have requested a subpoena for the US Attorney to see just how much truth and falacy there is to this statement. If you cannot prove it, we intend to and lay it to rest once and for all. Now, if it happens the file is still open, you going to move away from the dark side?

A lot of things that are brought up here can be as Bonnie states, silly putty. We could all play around with making up a story with each adding to it sentence by sentence. As to whether it is the truth or not no one seems to care.
Let me give you a couple truths that show just how silly this all has been.

1. A volunteer farmer who happens to like Danny and 3ABN supplied all of the hay equipment and did nearly all the haying for free.

PROVE IT!!!!. I want the "volunteer farmers' name address and telephone number. And I need your name and address so we can get your testimony on that story. I want to make sure you make the witness list as I have a couple of rebuttal witnesses that will turn your face VERY RED, and it may lead to some hypertension as well!!!

2. A man who helped care for the horses did so on his own time.  He said the Lord impressed him to donate his time to help Danny when he was traveling and needed help. Sometimes he would even help when Danny did not travel and again on his own time.  He started work at 3ABN at 8:00. He helped with Danny's horses at 7:30.

PROVE IT!!!NAME ADDRESS< PHONE NUMBER for this "impressed" human being so we can speak to him and get the REAL STORY

None of what some are saying has any bearing on anything except on each of us personally when we have to answer for what we have said and done.

edited to add quotes

]
There you are DONNA, we need name address and phone numbers so we can check out your tale. Who knows, maybe we have a couple dozen 3ABN employees, past and present, that are factually challenged. You have a duty to let us know.

Oh, but I can see your face glowing red already? Hypertension? or the truth taking its toll?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Sorry to disappoint you, but my face is not red, nor am I in fear. I am not afraid of the big bad wolf, so do your worst.

I do not owe you anything. My duty was to give all the truth and that is all that I need to do. If you do not want to accept it that is your choice.