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Author Topic: Is Allah God?  (Read 21296 times)

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Stan

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2012, 04:03:07 PM »

I know not all will agree with this...
Remember the Koran only teaches the seventh-day Sabbath, and the highlight is that Jesus will return and judge the Nations.
They are waiting for the "People of the BOOK' to arise and show them how to interpret Bible Prophecy to them about the last days.

This was a quick production for me, would like to do it over.
https://vimeo.com/41372775
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AVoiceInTheWilderness

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2012, 04:05:14 PM »

There is an inscription engraved on the outside of the Dome of the Rock which reads "Allah has no son".

That should tell one all he needs to know.



Always remember that the title 'BAAL' from the Old Testament literally translates to 'Lord'. Just because someone calls an entity the 'Creator' or 'God' in his language, it does not mean this is a reference to the God of the Bible.

Those who preach that Allah is JEHOVAH are being used by the enemy for a work of deception and rebellion, whether knowingly or unknowingly.
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Stan

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2012, 04:07:11 PM »

You have not even seen it.

God has NO SON... God is his only son.  HE was not created he has always been.
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Stan

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2012, 04:12:40 PM »

Voice

Do you believe Christ has not always been but rather created?
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AVoiceInTheWilderness

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2012, 04:39:20 PM »

Voice

Do you believe Christ has not always been but rather created?

I know full well what you are trying to do. Your question is structured incorrectly as it only gives me an option to choose error. Such are the tactics of the enemy of souls.


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Stan

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2012, 05:11:50 PM »

REALLY?

Deceptions are often made by people who do not fully declare who they are..

I am Stan Jensen, Bob Pickle says who he is, DF says who he is..

Who are you
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Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2012, 06:37:01 PM »

Seems things are going off topic.

The point is -- Islam denies the divinity of Christ.  To them Christ is a great prophet, nothing more.

They, like the Jews of old understand that  to claim that Christ is the  "Son of God" was "making Him God".


1 John 2:22   Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. 
 2:23   Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 
 2:24   Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 



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Gregory

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2012, 06:47:24 PM »

Quote
The point is -- Islam denies the divinity of Christ.  To them Christ is a great prophet, nothing more.

Correct.  No one who has any understanding of Islam could deny the above.

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Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2012, 10:45:33 PM »

I listened to the video and it raised questions in my mind.

But first I want to assure you that I think the man being interviewed is honest and following his convictions, so please don't think I'm judging him.  He is a Muslim who has come to the Adventist church and is growing (like we all need to learn and grow).  The part of reaching out to befriend, respect, and share with Muslims (and every person in our sphere of influence) is good.

But  some of the things that were said  concern me, if they are being used to convince Adventists that they are in actuality just "better Muslims".

Yes, the man was attracted to some of the aspects of our life style -- no pork, paying tithe
Great, these things are good things!  But these things are not the gospel, they won't save anyone.

We are not "good muslims" expecting that our health message and tithe paying and other life style commitments are going to save us.
This man was not about to give up "being a Muslim",   he kept insisting we were actually Muslims, not the other way around.  To that I must disagree.

Yes, Jesus is a good friend.   I'm glad this man feels this way about Jesus.   But does he believe Jesus is HIS SAVIOR?  That didn't come out in the talk, maybe he does, but it didn't come out in the talk.  I noticed too, that he quickly dismissed any connection between the term "son of God" meaning Christ was Divine.  But rather stated Christ was a son of God by virtue of His submission to God.

The Islamic religion does not recognize the need for a Savior, as far as I can tell.  The Muslim believes God has mercy in giving life and a chance  to mankind to mend his ways, but in the end a person is able, through careful and obedient participation in the obligations  outlined in the sacred writings to achieve a level of personal righteousness that will qualify him for the  reward .

Jesus death and resurrection?  What does it mean to a Muslim?

"The Qur'an tells us that some of the Israelites rejected Jesus, and conspired to kill him, but Allah (God) rescued Jesus and raised him to Himself. Allah will cause Jesus to descend again, at which time Jesus will confirm his true teachings and everyone will believe in him as he is and as the Qur'an teaches about him."  (IslamInfo-com)

So there is no atonement-- no Savior taking upon himself our sins and dying in our place that we might live.  "Allah rescued Jesus" This is taken from Sura 4:158 and is explained in various ways,  "The teaching is that Christ was not crucified nor killed by the Jews, notwithstanding certain apparent circumstances which produced that illusion in the minds of some of his enemies"  (Abdullah, Yusuf Ali)

And the second coming --

is it at all like we believe?  (the picture on the video showed a familiar second coming picture, but is this how they believe)?

According to some Islamic teaching:

Quote
"He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi (a descendant of the Prophet Mohammed) will be the Amir (leader).   From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (A.S.)[Jesus]. Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa [Jesus] will descend. When descending, Isa's [Jesus] hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa [Jesus] will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal (anti-Christ)....
After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (Jesus). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship. ...
After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him next to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

from: Hadhrat Esa (Alaihis Salaam): The Truth Revealed
and Major Signs of Qiyamat
by Mufti Afzal Hoosein Elias (May Allah reward him for his work in producing these kitaabs, aameen.)
from the original (with references): "Aalalaat-e-Qiyyamat aur Nuzul-e-Eesa."   


Yet another commentator states:
"The absence of any clear reference to the return of Jesus in the Qur`an and our earliest source of ahadith makes it difficult to say that the Prophet Muhammad taught the belief in the return of Jesus.... it is doubtful that these traditions go back to the Prophet of Islam. They should be rather regarded as the views of some early Muslims, which, as we shall see later, nevertheless have some value and validity.

He then writes this comment:
"the Muslim tradition views this return as taking place in the service of Islam. As a follower of the Prophet Muhammad and he will bring Christians and Jews under the fold of Islam by overcoming factors that have so far prevented this. In case of Christians, these factors are: the doctrine of redemption through the cross, ....Jesus upon his return will drive home to Christians the Islamic message that he was no more divine than Moses and other prophets, that his blood had nothing to do with man’s salvation and that the law is not nailed on the cross but is only adapted to changing circumstances."   (Islamic View of the Coming/Return of Jesus  By: Dr. Ahmad Shafaat)



All of this is vastely different from what we believe.






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Gregory

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2012, 06:30:40 PM »

The JOURNAL OF THE ADVENTIST THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY is a professional, peer reviewed scholarly journal which is intended to represent the conservative branch of Adventist scholars.  The latest issue, Vol. 22, Number 2, 2011 (yes, 2011) contains an interesting article, written by Dr. Larry Lichtenwalter, pastor of the Village SDA Church in Berrien springs, Michigan.
His article is entitled: “The Biblical Witness of the Character of God in Relation to the Qur’an,” and is printed on pages 106 – 153.  I cite it here as it covers the discussion that Dedication has started. 

Here is what the author says on pages 107 & 108:
Quote
There are many similarities and differences between biblical and qur’anic thought about the being and character of God.  On the one hand the concept of God in the Qur’an is significantly like the concept of God in the Bible.  Many of the same attributes of God are asserted in both.  .  .  .  As a result, Muslims and Christians use similar words to describe God.  So much so that for some, Allah is merely the personal name for God in Islam, .  .  .  .there should be no distinction between Allah and the English word “God.”  .  .  .  .   Despite such God-affirming similarities, the Bible and the Qur’an often construe God  . . . . in noticeably different ways and perspectives that make for significant differences both in theology and practice.  The divergence is profound.  As a result, Muslims have a fundamentally different understanding of God compared to Christians.  They lay stress on different aspects of God than Christians do.   And Muslim faith and experience are remarkably different from Christian faith and experience.  The reality is that the use of the word “God” for Muslims does not create the same mental picture nor produce the same response as it does for Christians. . . . . Are they the same God?  The answer is both Yes and No!

NOTE:  I cannot begint to sum the thinking of the writed in the quite above.  I suggest that you read the whole article to learn more about what he said.  You may contact him directly at:  lichtenwalter@gmail.com

 
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