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[Artiste]

I think your repeated questions about whether we want to "promote the culture" of some third world countries regarding women are designed to be a smoke screen to divert people's attention from the fact that you are essentially advocating rebellion against the SDA General Conference position, voted by the world church.

The cultures that you are condemning for their treatment of women are the ones that are growing in Adventism. 

The cultures that you would wish us to emulate in their acceptance of women's lib principles are dying off in Adventism. 

Maybe you need to belong to a different denomination...one that reflects your values better...

[Daryl Fawcett]

I think your repeated questions about whether we want to "promote the culture" of some third world countries regarding women are designed to be a smoke screen to divert people's attention from the fact that you are essentially advocating rebellion against the SDA General Conference position, voted by the world church.

The cultures that you are condemning for their treatment of women are the ones that are growing in Adventism. 

The cultures that you would wish us to emulate in their acceptance of women's lib principles are dying off in Adventism. 

Maybe you need to belong to a different denomination...one that reflects your values better...

That's an interesting thought about the ones against WO growing and the ones for WO stagnating or even decreasing, as in dying off.

[Dedication]

I think your repeated questions about whether we want to "promote the culture" of some third world countries regarding women are designed to be a smoke screen to divert people's attention from the fact that you are essentially advocating rebellion against the SDA General Conference position, voted by the world church.

I have never advocated rebellion against the SDA GC.
Why focus on me instead of dealing with subject matter.
The subject matter was the cultural treatment of women.

Remember there are TWO SEPARATE issues under discussion here.

1. -- is the position against women being ordained Biblical?
2. -- should those convinced it is not Biblical move ahead of the GC?

My position has been to search scripture on the first point and what I'm finding is more and more evidence that shows the standard arguments are based on tradition not Bible.

On the second point, no I don't think people should move ahead of the GC, I think we need to get clear on what the Bible says and move ahead together.

Maybe you need to belong to a different denomination...one that reflects your values better...

Are you telling me to leave the church? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
That was a very judgmental statement.   
What do you know about my values?

The only reason I repeated the question was to show the sequence of how "culture" came into the conversation.  You mentioned culture first then denied that you were holding up their culture as the "better" one.

As debate opened, there was a rush to the two microphones on the floor. One-hundred and twenty persons lined up to speak for or against the motion. Passionate speaches, mostly from the delegates representing Central and South America as well as Africa and Asia, appealed for the motion to be defeated. Statements for the right of gender inclusive ordination not to be defeated, came mostly from North American and European delegates

I find it interesting that those in favour of WO comes mainly from parts of the world that are "rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing."

I think it is because those parts of the world have a more "evolved" culture and are the areas where women's lib is promoted.

Do a little research and see how the average woman is treated in these countries.
Are you sure you want to promote their culture?

I don't think anyone said anything about wanting to promote their culture.

And yes, the talk was about our "evolved" culture, vs,  theirs.
People from those cultures where women are largely suppressed, have a real problem thinking of women in ministry.

[Dedication]

That's an interesting thought about the ones against WO growing and the ones for WO stagnating or even decreasing, as in dying off.

Do you really think it's because of the issue of WO?
Or are there a lot of other factors influencing that?

It's people who have next to nothing that respond to the message.
People who have everything, including a lot of entertainment etc. are too bogged down with the  pleasures and cares of the world.

And also it could be that whole ministry in general in our part of the world (that includes the males) has fallen into a lukewarm comfortable routine.  They have lost their first love.  It's a "job" rather than "service for the Lord".

Whereas in these 3rd world countries people are excited about the good news of salvation that has been brought to them.  People who have been oppressed (like the lower classes in India) rejoice at the thought that God would look at them as His sons and daughters!
  Like one pastor who went overseas to do evangelism said, "It's like fishing in a hatchery over there, throw in your net and it's full, whereas over here you can let down your net all night and at times there is nothing."
 
   
 

[Bob Pickle]

The news item stressed that delegates from Central and South America lined up at the microphones.

Does anyone know whether the culture in Brazil puts down women?

One thing I've heard about South American Adventism is that it tends to have a high regard for the SoP, and it is interesting that it has been one of the fastest growing regions.

[Daryl Fawcett]

The news item stressed that delegates from Central and South America lined up at the microphones.

Does anyone know whether the culture in Brazil puts down women?

One thing I've heard about South American Adventism is that it tends to have a high regard for the SoP, and it is interesting that it has been one of the fastest growing regions.

We have a pastor's wife in Brazil over at Maritime.   She is posting on the WO thread/s there.   She is our Global Moderator over there.   I will ask her there in that thread.

[Battle Creek]

In another forum a person with roots in Argentina tells about a week of prayer at our school there where one of the present greatest opponents of the ordination of women in USA was the speaker. For the whole week he held the youth spellbound with his prophetic presentations, but on Friday he noticed some bottles of Coca Cola on the campus. Friday night, when we traditionally have the greatest spiritual impact during a week of prayer, this speaker devoted his sermon to the subject of the evils of Coca Cola. During his preaching it seemed like about half of the audience left the sanctuary. For his Sabbath morning service only about one forth came to hear him.

The person who tells the story indicates the speaker thinks there is a strong Coca Cola tradition in Argentina.

Could traditions have a bearing on our way of thinking?