Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Johann]

"One way for you to get acquainted with the matter is by reading pastor John Lorencin’s booklet on women’s ordination—it is available in English with the title Priestly Ministry in the Old and the New Testament: Should Women be Ordained? (2012) Pastor Lorencin was the Yugoslavian Union President until 1994 and used to be very much opposed to women’s ordination. He admits that he took a traditional view and under the influence of his cultural context where there were three main religions: Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic Christian, and Islam. He had not formed his opinion on the basis of the Bible, so when he retired he decided to study ordination in the Bible. In his book, as a pastoral Bible reader, in simple language, he goes through the whole Bible. He finds that in the New Testament, Christ has taken over the sacrificial priestly office from the Old Testament, so it is no more. Instead, Christ has fulfilled the sacrificial system and become our high priest in heaven where he now offers his benefits for us to God. As our high priest, he is also the head of the body of Christ, the church, which consists of the priesthood of all believers, which makes no distinction between male and female. He also points out that there is no word for ‘ordination’ in the Bible. It is used in the King James Version from 1611, but it is there based on old Roman Catholic translations from the 14th and 15th centuries. In fact, pastor Lorencin warns against letting the pastoral ordination be influenced by the Roman Catholic, unbiblical practice, which is rooted in the pagan Roman system of being promoted (Latin ordinatio) to a higher ‘order’ (Latin ordo) in the state offices. Any sense of the rite of ordination conveying a special status or character that is not already there through the gift of the Holy Spirit is unbiblical. Ordination is therefore a work of the Spirit and only recognised and confirmed by the church. Many of the points raised here have also been pointed out in the Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopedia, in the article on ‘ordination’ (1996)." tedNEWS

[Bob Pickle]

But the "priesthood of all believers" is an OT concept, predating the establishment of the all-male Aaronic order of priests.

And Ellen White soundly endorsed the concept of ordination as being a biblical rite, though it may differ from the Catholic concept.

So the two points mentioned above, (I don't see how they help us any. We have to stick with the Bible and the SoP. So if the Bible says that the priesthood of all believers is an OT concept found in Ex. 19:6, that's what we have to go by. And if the SoP says that Jesus ordained 12 disciples, and that Paul and Barnabas were ordained, that's what we have to go by.

[Gregory]

Some might say that Christ ordained 12 Apostles.  The position of Apostle differs from that of a parish pastor.  Therefore, the criteria to ordain as an Apostle may not apply today and/or may not apply to parish pastors.

[Dedication]

"..., he goes through the whole Bible. He finds that in the New Testament, Christ has taken over the sacrificial priestly office from the Old Testament, so it is no more. Instead, Christ has fulfilled the sacrificial system and become our high priest in heaven where he now offers his benefits for us to God. As our high priest, he is also the head of the body of Christ, the church, which consists of the priesthood of all believers, which makes no distinction between male and female....(1996)." tedNEWS

This is an issue  which, in my opinion, many fail to see.
The official priesthood in the OT was a highly symbolic role of what Christ would do.  Now Christ has entered with His own precious blood into the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest.  Now there is no more need for a formal priesthood.  Indeed the continuation of the priesthood in Catholicism is usurping Christ's heavenly ministry and it is wrong.

When Israel was said to be a nation of "priests" it wasn't referring to the official priesthood office of which only Aaron's descendants could be a part of.
Aaron was symbolic of the role of Christ, the people, as a nation of priests were to be the light that spread out to world proclaiming the "gospel" (which was in the symbols) of forgiveness and redemption to the world.

In the New Testament Christ is the Better high Priest, the one Who ALONE can take away sins and redeem us.   We are to be "priests and kings" in the same manner the whole nation of Israel was to be "a nation of priests" and proclaim the gospel of forgiveness and redemption to the world.


To compare the Aaronic Priesthood to the work of ministers is comparing two different things, and is basically following the thinking pattern set by the Catholic church who sets up priests to function in the role that belongs only to Christ.

[Johann]

Some might say that Christ ordained 12 Apostles.  The position of Apostle differs from that of a parish pastor.  Therefore, the criteria to ordain as an Apostle may not apply today and/or may not apply to parish pastors.

Gregory, I do not disagree with you, but I fear some on this forum might not accept the word "parish". At least there was a time when it was not admissible within Adventism.

Many years ago I discovered that German Adventists were, in some ways, much more conservative than American Adventists. Some German Adventist regarded me as an infidel back in the fifties, when I told them I was a pastor in the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Denmark. They had no pastors, only preachers or Brothers. They would never step inside a church, so they had only Advent Houses or Chapels.

Words do influence people.

[Johann]

"..., he goes through the whole Bible. He finds that in the New Testament, Christ has taken over the sacrificial priestly office from the Old Testament, so it is no more. Instead, Christ has fulfilled the sacrificial system and become our high priest in heaven where he now offers his benefits for us to God. As our high priest, he is also the head of the body of Christ, the church, which consists of the priesthood of all believers, which makes no distinction between male and female....(1996)." tedNEWS

This is an issue  which, in my opinion, many fail to see.
The official priesthood in the OT was a highly symbolic role of what Christ would do.  Now Christ has entered with His own precious blood into the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest.  Now there is no more need for a formal priesthood.  Indeed the continuation of the priesthood in Catholicism is usurping Christ's heavenly ministry and it is wrong.

When Israel was said to be a nation of "priests" it wasn't referring to the official priesthood office of which only Aaron's descendants could be a part of.
Aaron was symbolic of the role of Christ, the people, as a nation of priests were to be the light that spread out to world proclaiming the "gospel" (which was in the symbols) of forgiveness and redemption to the world.

In the New Testament Christ is the Better high Priest, the one Who ALONE can take away sins and redeem us.   We are to be "priests and kings" in the same manner the whole nation of Israel was to be "a nation of priests" and proclaim the gospel of forgiveness and redemption to the world.


To compare the Aaronic Priesthood to the work of ministers is comparing two different things, and is basically following the thinking pattern set by the Catholic church who sets up priests to function in the role that belongs only to Christ.

You are so right that our lives and faith must be in tune with the total picture of the atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no reason to hone our belief with the Churches with the greatest membership in the world, because God has called us out of them into a glorious message of salvation, hope, restoration, and judgment.

[Bob Pickle]

Some might say that Christ ordained 12 Apostles.  The position of Apostle differs from that of a parish pastor.  Therefore, the criteria to ordain as an Apostle may not apply today and/or may not apply to parish pastors.

Desire of Ages was published in 1898. Sketches from the Life of Paul was published in 1883. These books used the word "ordain" or "ordination" to refer to the the ordination of the 12 disciples and Paul and Barnabas. Therefore, those who want to do away with all ordination within the Seventh-day Adventist Church on the basis that ordination is Catholic are simply wrong.

The criteria for ordination used for Paul and Barnabas should be about the same as within Adventism today given the near identical results of the authorization associated with that ordination. If we revert back to not allowing licensed ministers to baptize, then the results of ordination would appear to be identical.