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[Johann]

I feel it is quite improper to discuss homosexuality together with the question of ordaining female ministers. This is why I am opening yet another section here.

I tried to move all the posts on homosexuality over here, but somehow they disappeared. Cananyone else find them - if you fell they are important enough to have them here.

[Bob Pickle]

Retired seminary professor C. Raymond Holmes tied the issue of women's ordination with the issue of the acceptance of homosexual behavior in his book, The tip of an iceberg: Biblical authority, biblical interpretation, and the ordination of women in ministry.

These two issues can be separated if one can come up with a non-cultural explanation of Paul's statements on the role of women, which explanation allows for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry. Without such an explanation, they cannot be separated and still adequately address the concerns of those who oppose women's ordination on a biblical basis.

[Johann]

Retired seminary professor C. Raymond Holmes tied the issue of women's ordination with the issue of the acceptance of homosexual behavior in his book, The tip of an iceberg: Biblical authority, biblical interpretation, and the ordination of women in ministry.

These two issues can be separated if one can come up with a non-cultural explanation of Paul's statements on the role of women, which explanation allows for the ordination of women to the gospel ministry. Without such an explanation, they cannot be separated and still adequately address the concerns of those who oppose women's ordination on a biblical basis.

He was not even an adventist when he took a leave of absence from his Lutheran pastorate and went to Andrews to straighten out some of our heresies. Soon after that he was teaching adventist seminary students. Quite a jump! But I can well equate homosexuality with a refusal to ordain females for the ministry. Alex seems to help us understanding some aspects of this. So we can agree on discussing the two together from that perspective, if that is what you prefer.

[Bob Pickle]

We certainly don't have to constantly link the two topics together, but at present we can't entirely separate them.

[Alex L. Walker]

I agree with Bob. Last night I was trying to make a point. What occured? I was attacked. In stead of attacking folks, lets debate the issues, shall we?

[horsethief]

Regardless of cultural shifts, the church needs to remain resolute on it's mission, which is to bring souls to Christ. If homosexuals end up attending church, then good. They will hear the Gospel there. If they choose baptism, then it must be made known to them that they put their own souls in peril if they make the choice to be a follower of Christ yet remain homosexual. That would be the case with any sinful lifestyle. A homosexual has no place in the leadership of our churches though.

[horsethief]

Disagreement and an opposing viewpoint is not attacking anyone.

[horsethief]

Deception is warned against in the scriptures. Alex is attempting to take his "homosexuality is no sin" message to the rest of us in a way for him to justify whatever his personal issues are. He is attempting to deceive by presenting this soft, warm and friendly side to homosexuals and suggesting they can be Christian pastors. It don't work for me. A person cannot be both a Christian and a homosex.

[Alex L. Walker]

Again you have avoided my question.

What sin has a homosexual committed if they have chosen not to engage in sex?

Why should they not be allowed to pastor?

I am shocked that pro-woman clergy do not also stand on the side of allowing homosexuals to pastor, especially homosexuals who have not had sex.

The Apostle Paul makes it very clear on women, yet many still chose to make excuses why women should be allowed to be ordained so why not non-practicing homosexuals?

[Gregory]

Back in the 1980's the SDA Church published a book with the following title:  Homosexuality in History and the Scriptures .

That book is for sale on the Internet today for $8.00.

I consider that book to be well worth the higher price that I paid for it when it was first published.  I believe that it would be of value today to any who are interested in the subject.

On the Scriptural side of the book it takes a look at the Biblical verses that are commonly used in the argu[ements that people make on this subject.

The historical side of the book is also interesting.

I find it of value in understanding the positions that people take in regard to whether homosexuality based upon gender preference, as I believe, or based on practice as others believe.

[horsethief]

How many of you have ever been unjustly harassed by someone with a badge and a gun?

Or how many of you have been asked to buy something that you knew that was stolen, by someone who could not take a simple 'no' for an answer?

Have you ever been at a gas station, or a convenience store and been made to feel like you don't belong there by someone who could barely speak english?

Ever been told by a group of people who claimed to be a majority that your opinion does not matter?

[Johann]

How many of you have ever been unjustly harassed by someone with a badge and a gun?

Or how many of you have been asked to buy something that you knew that was stolen, by someone who could not take a simple 'no' for an answer?

Have you ever been at a gas station, or a convenience store and been made to feel like you don't belong there by someone who could barely speak english?

Hopefully not, but have you ever been attacked by a homosexual?

Ever been told by a group of people who claimed to be a majority that your opinion does not matter?

Boy, you said it! I am surprised how many of your questions I can deplorably answer in the affirmative.

[Alex L. Walker]

Lol. Ever been attacked by a homosexual? What about a homosexual who is under attack?