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This statement is true

1 (33.3%)

This statement is false

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This statement is somewhat true

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This statement is true and I know of specific examples of conservatives being guilty of this in the SDA Church

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Total Members Voted: 2

[tinka]

Sounds like talk from the "SDA Reformers". (an off shoot branch)

[christian]

On this one I am in total agreement with tinka, boy, did I say that. And Johann you are right in your summation of the facts but that in no means justifies what God has already spoken against through the prophets. Because men wear jewelry or drive costly cars to be seen in no way affects the legitimacy of the prohibition of jewelry from Adventist who have been counseled against the wearing thereof.

tinka,
If the Lord convicted me, that wearing my wedding ring or my earings was a sin, I would take them off. Also, if He convicted me that wearing them was causing someone else from coming to Him, I would also take them off. So far, He has not done that. I do not dress plain, like the Amish or Mennonites because the Lord has not convicted me to do that, nor has He convicted me to live as a vegetarian as you do. WHEN AND IF He does I will change my diet. What the Lord tells you to do, is different than me. The scripture says to work out our own salvation before the Lord. Each of us is different. Each one of us have different gifts and God uses us in different ways. For you to wear jewely is wrong, because the Lord has told you it is wrong. I would not try to tell you different. My walk with Jesus is personal and I listen to Him. Sometimes He has to knock me up beside the head, but He gets His point accross.

Di, and Mrst53 who is not SDA to review our stance on Jewelry although some SDA's do not take this of value for their own "vanities sake".
In case you have not read this thought I would insert here the connection or stance to Bible reference from EGW. So therefore it is very strange for me to see how SDA people can make their own justifications of wearing jewelry, rings and things here in a free country of choice and not traditional heathen customs.


"Were our sisters conscientious Bible Christians, seeking to improve every opportunity to enlighten others, we should see scores of souls embracing the truth through their self-sacrificing endeavors alone. Sisters, in the day when the accounts of all are balanced, will you feel a pleasure in reviewing your life, or will you feel that the beauty of the outward man was sought, while the inward beauty of the soul was almost entirely neglected?  {4T 629.4}
     Have not our sisters sufficient zeal and moral courage to place themselves without excuse upon the Bible platform? The apostle has given most explicit directions on this point: I will therefore . . . that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." Here the Lord, through His apostle, speaks expressly against the wearing of gold. Let those who have had experience see to it that they do not lead others astray on this point by their example. That ring encircling your finger may be very plain, but it is useless, and the wearing of it has a wrong influence upon others.  {4T 630.1}
     Especially should the wives of our ministers be careful not to depart from the plain teachings of the Bible on the point of dress. Many look upon these injunctions as too old-fashioned to be worthy of notice; but He who gave them to His disciples understood the dangers from the love of dress in our time and sent to us the note of warning. Will we heed the warning and be wise? Extravagance in dress is continually increasing. The end is not yet. Fashion is constantly changing,
                                                                            631
and our sisters follow in its wake, regardless of time or expense. There is a great amount of means expended upon dress, when it should be returned to God the giver.  {4T 630.2}
     The plain, neat dress of the poorer class often appears in marked contrast with the attire of their more wealthy sisters, and this difference frequently causes a feeling of embarrassment on the part of the poor. Some try to imitate their more wealthy sisters, and frill and ruffle and trim goods of an inferior quality so as to approach as nearly as possible to them in dress. Poor girls, receiving but two dollars a week for their work, will expend every cent to dress like others who are not obliged to earn their own living. These youth have nothing to put into the treasury of God. And their time is so thoroughly occupied in making their dress as fashionable as that of their sisters that they have no time for the improvement of the mind, for the study of God's word, for secret prayer, or for the prayer meeting. The mind is entirely taken up with planning how to appear as well as their sisters. To accomplish this end, physical, mental, and moral health is sacrificed. Happiness and the favor of God are laid upon the altar of fashion.  {4T 631.1}
     Many will not attend the service of God upon the Sabbath because their dress would appear so unlike that of their Christian sisters in style and adornment. Will my sisters consider these things as they are, and will they fully realize the weight of their influence upon others? By walking in a forbidden path themselves, they lead others in the same way of disobedience and backsliding. Christian simplicity is sacrificed to outward display. My sisters, how shall we change all this? How shall we recover ourselves from the snare of Satan and break the chains that have bound us in slavery to fashion? How shall we recover our wasted opportunities? how bring our powers into healthful, vigorous action? There is only one way, and that is to make the Bible our rule of life. All should work earnestly to do good to others, watch unto prayer, take up the long-neglected cross, and heed the warnings and injunctions of Him who has said: "Whosoever will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me."
                                                                            632
 {4T 631.2}
     My Christian sisters, face the mirror, the law of God, and test your course of action by the first four commandments. These explicitly define our duty to God. He claims the undivided affections; and anything which tends to absorb the mind and divert it from God assumes the form of an idol. The true and living God is crowded out of the thoughts and heart, and the soul-temple is defiled by the worship of other gods before the Lord. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," says the commandment. Let us search the heart, compare the life and character with the statutes and precepts of Jehovah, and then seek diligently to correct our errors.  {4T 632.1}"

[princessdi]

Christian!  There you are!  I was about to send out the troops!  LOL!!!

[mrst53]

Jise,
How do you know such itimate details about these men in the SDA church?

[princessdi]

Mrst, I can see the can opening now..............Why did you have to ask?!!  LOL!!!

[tinka]

On this one I am in total agreement with tinka, boy, did I say that. And Johann you are right in your summation of the facts but that in no means justifies what God has already spoken against through the prophets. Because men wear jewelry or drive costly cars to be seen in no way affects the legitimacy of the prohibition of jewelry from Adventist who have been counseled against the wearing thereof.

James 5:3   Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. 

This is enough for me to understand perfectly if all else was omitted! EGW says "it is useles".
It just gives "vanity" in all avenues of self looks, possessions, justified by self with all self reasoning.  The rich man gave all but one thing....could a ring be one thing?? EGW says, don't chance it as we do not know our own inner sins........ Her greatest question to the Lord before she took on the task of her duty, was to please protect her from the "vanity" of it all. That is when I knew how important "humble was".  and then there is the use of "the worlds applause". The applause within our church. SDA never ever applauded within church for the reasons she gave. Now, and this age...all forgotten. No applause in church remember?? Why do we want the "applause" or give it? It relates again to "vanity" or causes it to the Preacher or singer. It is a great danger to do it for those reasons. Amen to the Holy Spirit is very sufficient in the essenance of connection with Holy Spirit. Applause is for the person. Applause is for worldy performing plain and simple. It gives "vanity" to the becoming of the "stars". of which.....gets you nowhere with God!

[Jise]

Bob Pickle: This is the opinion I've reached of Mr. Johnnson from many of his pronouncements which have been made public.  When he holds up certain groups who are involved in sin and who support sin- as groups to be emulated by the church and all churches - this would seem to say to me that he supports these sins.

[Jise]

I find it interesting when a campus "leader" "based" in N. America, claims that he's against contemporary means of mission and worship and is bible based, yet he supports SDA Mission workers who've broken the 10 commandments, are currently in sin, are engaged in sins such as dishonesty, fornication, etc.  This campus leader is anti-contemporary because he really supports a historical period of time in which certani groups and genders - were oppressed as via the law of the land.  You'd be hard pressed to find this "leader" criticizing "trokosi" for example.  For him conservatism is really a cover for the fact that this guy is a tribalist and his ministry is one of tribalism - with him, it's a crime to be a certain ethnic group.  If you are a certain ethnic group, and commit sins and are unrepetentent - this leader being the false prophet he is- stands up for you - but if you are a certain ethnic group and gender, merely listening to Gospel music makes you a devil, even if you are a real "well meaning" christian who is honest, and obeys the 10 commandments. This leader is simply not of the same stature of persons that I've met in other churches. What drives this leader is that he wishes ill for others and feels ashamed of the fact that he simply is not on the level of others. This campus leader has also relied on and perpetuated lies about "liberals" and permissiveness when in fact, this campus "leader" is quite "permissive" and "loose" with biblical doctrine in that he associates with and approves of slanderers, fornicators, etc.  No wonder as according to land records, his house continues to drop in value. He will never "repay" his debts, because he's so evil...   

[Jise]

Certain Hate speech against ethnic groups is protected speech under the constitution- and often has not as of yet fallen under the rubric of being described as bullying by some anti-bullying groups when certain groups or persons do it against certain racial minority groups- namely conservative radio personalities or groups such as the KKK. Has the SDA Church become a fertile ground for picking on certain groups of persons based on mere ethnic and cultural differences that have little to do with whether or not one has good christian values? For example, is there a tendency for groups of persons from the same region of the globe and/or from the same race to gang up on others within the church based on mere differences that have little to do with the substance of christianity? For example, do we have a situation, wherein if a person is from a certain region of the globe - yet they are dishonest , and tend to have a tendency to fornicate - that this person will still be lauded as a "christian" and not be described as having errant or problematic behavior - whereas another person who comes from another part of the globe, is persecuted and bullied on account of mere ethnicity and being different because of this - wherein bullying behaviors such as being targetted for exploitation, for abuse, is excused, explained away and even lauded by Church members in the SDA Church? I have printed this link below which describes a common scheme that is directed at women from certain parts of the globe being exploited. http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g312659-s402/Cape-Town:South-Africa:Nightlife.html
 Yet, there is at least one SDA Conference and Churches that support promiscous males such as the ones described here in this link seeking out women in this fashion to harass, and exploit - this common scheme often and commonly involves a financial element of abuse. Would you believe that we have adventists who are so cynical to allege that any and all of the women who are targetted and exploited in this fashion or approached in this fashion, and swindled out of money -had impure motives towards the male "touts" who targetted them for perverse ends, merely because they expected at the minimum to not have been approached in such a dishonest fashion - been targetted for harrassment. I think these Adventists who cynical are also guilty of harrassment of women. The question is -do people who are adventists who defend promiscous males who target women in such fashion - tend to come from countries where there is a high prevalence of HIV/AIDS which is tied to casual promiscuous relations? Is the SDA Church trying to regularlize this kind of ethos and encourage other christians look up to this kind of ethos and philosophy of life? 

[Jise]

Jise,
Hmmm, actually you bring up an interesting point. "Southern Strategy". One can ponder this for a moment.

Just what was their "southern strategy? Slaves that did all their work for them? They loved their life of ease?? while slaves worked and they did eat and made them their money to live a life of pride and luxury???  Why would they want to give this up???  They love their rebel flag to this day and claim "the south will rise again".

Their defeat was a bloody one. and it happened during the time of the 3rd angels message was to be given. What better plan could Satan divert the message using the selfease devised by him the lifestyle of "Southern strategy" of the use of inhuman slavery. Have they really been defeated and have come back with the cloak of different names in this late era? I knew some (what they call secret KKK people a few years back when discovering accidentally their secret meeting place without their knowing and carried the rebel flags in their trucks) Guess what they were not native northerners.  What changed with these characteristics of the North and the South Strategy in this late date??? Nothing!! In that era and time Northerners, coming from Europe and making and working their own way was a different "Strategy" so again we are divided in two different ways of life that continue and continue and could be called many names that mean the same two "Strategies". We still have it today divided by individuals and their upbringing which determines where ever they migrated to in what ever part of the country... but their "Strategy" is still there and they still are in the mode of "Southern strategy" whether they are still in the south or live in the north. The outcome of division is scattered in all parts of the nation with the passing of time.  I think it all depends on where your"roots" are from and originated not meaning that all Southerners think this way.  But some chose to move on and  live it in the "conservative" word of God and know their reward in the end and  some like to live with it still in their craw  in the devils street of "Southern strategy" and racism where there is no return and it remains to be relived and relived in each "Individuals choice of Strategy". Yes, their rebel flag still rises "cloaked". and the still "slaves" of history (not meaning all) do not overcome as some do. It is tooooo late in time for these "Strategies" to even be thought of now as the end nears.

The message given from that time forward was on a one to one basis of all human relationship with God and the ticket of "unity" for all one nation under God. But the flag was still there......the "liberal and Southern strategy" flag. God's plan or "flag" is another shall not work and another eat. Making Slaves were wrong from the get go. EGW and company  had the burden of the world on their shoulders to deliver 3rd angels message in this "rebel southern strategy" and still rising! again all southerns do not take this stance. My husband is a southerner from a very poor south western mountain state and family history never owned slaves and repulsed at the segregation of students during his young years. He was ashamed and hurt for the treatmeant of black students being on the bus long hours to go far to school. Yes there are people like my husband that have feeling and fought for the right of all human beings under God. But somehow the "racism" won't let some blacks reallize that legislature now holds their freedom for all. All can work for their own happiness, life of choice and equality. Some will reach for it in both black and white and some will not. and finally if you do work for it in this late era -- others are waiting to take it in all human races. Pretty bad by now would'nt you say as the "rebel" rises.

Thank you for your comment -I agree with much of it except some parts of it. The legislature does not necessarily hold blacks' freedom for all. I'm afraid that many of the courts have a corrupt form of injustice as talked about in the bible - and don't enforce the laws that allow blacks to work free from harrassment and with equal opportunity.  Just because someone is black does not mean they are unwilling to work. There are many who are willing to work to keep their jobs. Many have gotten to where they are and surpassed others because they went to school and studied and worked harder than others - not because of affirmative action. There is alot of unjust affirmative action action that many whites have gotten yet there is quite an effort to keep this under wraps and not let the news get out about this.  Do you know that if the real story got about about how lack of merit is fostered in some workplaces and some unqualified whites have been promoted even when underperforming over others, that there are laws on the books that could be used to silence the truth from coming out.  There is a real propaganda campaign out there that exists to distort the truth about the races and who is really getting an unfair advantage and has gotten an unfair advantage all of these years.  Some would rather "buy" silence and sweep the issue under the rug so as to give the "appearance" of a meritocracy and that America is a meritocracy where discrimination does not really exist- so that the public does not find out the extent of how underperforming whites were promoted over meritorious blacks and others even in violation of a workplace's own policies, etc. etc.  So I don't believe this idea that all or even most blacks don't want to work and are always unduly complaining.  The real truth is that there is alot of corruption and a lack of accountability in some workplaces. What I've observed is that if you are white and are underperforming, you simply will not be held accountable on many levels, and will not be fired in some organizations  -even if you've grossly broken laws. This is what I've learned -and it's quite interesting that we still have this rhetoric delivered about how underachievement and an "achievement gap" purportedly defines the black American culture and is unique to the black culture and allegedly rare in other cultures.  This may be what large swaths of America wants to hear - but is this really truthful? Think about the cynical and dishonest portrayal it gives of ethnic groups in terms of "inferiority" and "superiority" and the damage it does? There is a feeling and philosophy that the rights - the human rights of "blacks" are not God-given that should be recognized and respected by American institutions and the American majority, but are simply rights that can be given at a whim by the American state.  There is a point of view that for expediency, it is best to approach the problem of "black America" from a standpoint where equal rights for them is recognized not all at once, but through slow gradualism.  I don't know if I really agree with this strategy because it seems to violate the bible and allow for moral compromise and even be violative of the nation's anti-discrimination laws. Many persons have gotten to where they are today because they know how to network and networking often involves swallowing the party line and engaging in the "southern strategy" and bullying others of certain ethnic groups.

[Jise]

Bill Cork has written an essay over today at Adventist Today - some of the people he's endorsed - I'm not saying whether or not they're limited to this essay -but that he's endorsed in general, believe that women should be approached and exploited in the manner depictedin this link above here http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g312659-s402/Cape-Town:South-Africa:Nightlife.html
.