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[Bob Pickle]

"There are not many, even among educators and statesmen, who comprehend the causes that underlie the present state of society. Those who hold the reins of government are not able to solve the problem of moral corruption, poverty, pauperism, and increasing crime. They are struggling in vain to place business operations on a more secure basis. If men would give more heed to the teaching of God's word, they would find a solution of the problems that perplex them" (9T 13).

How many have thought of this quote in light of the attempts to prop up the economy and keep it from collapsing?

[Bob Pickle]

"On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. ..."

"The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: 'They are perfectly safe.' But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines" (9T 12, 13).

Kind of interesting that the quote in the opening post comes just two paragraphs after the last paragraph above. So we have a possible connection between skyscrapers falling in NYC and shaky "business operations." Today's shaky business operations are in NYC, and the skyscrapers that fell were called the World Trade Center.

[Bob Pickle]

"They are struggling in vain to place business operations on a more secure basis" is found in other places than 9T. Here's the one from MH:

"There are largehearted men and women who are anxiously considering the condition of the poor and what means can be found for their relief. How the unemployed and the homeless can be helped to secure the common blessings of God's providence and to live the life He intended man to live, is a question to which many are earnestly endeavoring to find an answer. But there are not many, even among educators and statesmen, who comprehend the causes that underlie the present state of society. Those who hold the reins of government are unable to solve the problem of poverty, pauperism, and increasing crime. They are struggling in vain to place business operations on a more secure basis" (MH 183).

[Bob Pickle]

The quoted paragraph from 9T ended with "If men would give more heed to the teaching of God's word, they would find a solution of the problems that perplex them."

MH has that thought in the next paragraph rather than at the end of the quoted paragraph:

"If men would give more heed to the teaching of God's word, they would find a solution of these problems that perplex them. Much might be learned from the Old Testament in regard to the labor question and the relief of the poor" (MH 183).

[Bob Pickle]

Okay, so what parts of the OT does Ellen White go on to say has a bearing on these problems?

"In God's plan for Israel every family had a home on the land, with sufficient ground for tilling. Thus were provided both the means and the incentive for a useful, industrious, and self-supporting life. And no devising of men has ever improved upon that plan. To the world's departure from it is owing, to a large degree, the poverty and wretchedness that exist today" (MH 183, 184).

I just find it interesting that the very first thing she starts talking about is real estate, and real estate is at the heart of the crisis that "those who hold the reins of government" are right now trying to deal with.

[Bob Pickle]

Two paragraphs later comes this:

"And although one might for a time dispose of his possession, he could not permanently barter away the inheritance of his children. When able to redeem his land, he was at liberty at any time to do so. Debts were remitted every seventh year, and in the fiftieth, or year of jubilee, all landed property reverted to the original owner" (MH 184).

So the shaky business operations are here in MH connected with not following God's precepts dealing with debt and real estate. Sounds like the headlines today, doesn't it?

[Bob Pickle]

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law" (Rom. 13:8).

Protestantism is supposed to advocate the principle that the Bible is the final authority. Yet Protestant America abandoned Rom. 13:8 a long time ago. Today if we have a credit crunch, then the economy is in danger of collapsing. Doesn't sound quite right, does it? Unless we have the ability to go more in debt than we already are, everything will collapse. Pretty odd.

But how far in debt can we go? There has to be a limit somewhere.

[Bob Pickle]

MH came out in 1905. Here's what she wrote in a letter written in 1894, while she was in Australia, which was in a depression at the time:

"The poor are everywhere. The banks have ruined the country. They invested the people's deposits in various speculations, exceeded their funds, and as the result some have failed, and others have closed, so that the people are poor and helpless. Thousands are destitute of money; they are thrown out of work, and distress is everywhere. The country is in financial ruin" (12MR 94).

[Bob Pickle]

Here's a story about one family in Australia at the time:

"Just before Brother L received the truth, he purchased a place in the country, at Castle Hill. The locality is very beautiful. The land boom was then sweeping over New South Wales, and he paid twenty-five pounds sterling per acre for ten acres of land. He has planted orchards of orange and other fruit trees, and has cleared and cultivated the land. Then he built a good-sized, two-story house. His brother, who is an unbeliever, pledged himself to help him out, but a few months ago the bank panic struck through this section, and the bank in which his brother had all his money closed. It has not failed, but the brother cannot get his money out. The same bank holds the obligation of Brother L, and they may come down on him any day and take his all, because he cannot raise five hundred pounds for the necessary payment. This brother sees no way out. He has a wife and five children. He feels that he is under the shadow" (12MR 78).

Odd. The same bank that he owed money to wouldn't give his brother his money so that a payment could be made on his mortgage.

I guess things could be worse.

[reddogs]

Here's a story about one family in Australia at the time:

"Just before Brother L received the truth, he purchased a place in the country, at Castle Hill. The locality is very beautiful. The land boom was then sweeping over New South Wales, and he paid twenty-five pounds sterling per acre for ten acres of land. He has planted orchards of orange and other fruit trees, and has cleared and cultivated the land. Then he built a good-sized, two-story house. His brother, who is an unbeliever, pledged himself to help him out, but a few months ago the bank panic struck through this section, and the bank in which his brother had all his money closed. It has not failed, but the brother cannot get his money out. The same bank holds the obligation of Brother L, and they may come down on him any day and take his all, because he cannot raise five hundred pounds for the necessary payment. This brother sees no way out. He has a wife and five children. He feels that he is under the shadow" (12MR 78).

Odd. The same bank that he owed money to wouldn't give his brother his money so that a payment could be made on his mortgage.

I guess things could be worse.

A friend of mine had business, and kept his personal bank account and the business account in the same bank. Because of the insurance surge and taxes he was having trouble making his house mortgage payments, so he went to the bank and explained the situation to see if he could work something out.

Well to make a long story short, the bank panicked and seized his personal savings then went and also took his business account so his business collapsed. His house was foreclosed, and he could not make the payment on his vehicle so he lost his transportation. So the bank destroyed a good customer, a person paying them a mortgage and a business customer.

[Bob Pickle]

On what grounds could they just seize his accounts like that?

[bonnie]

A friend of mine had business, and kept his personal bank account and the business account in the same bank. Because of the insurance surge and taxes he was having trouble making his house mortgage payments, so he went to the bank and explained the situation to see if he could work something out.

Well to make a long story short, the bank panicked and seized his personal savings then went and also took his business account so his business collapsed. His house was foreclosed, and he could not make the payment on his vehicle so he lost his transportation. So the bank destroyed a good customer, a person paying them a mortgage and a business customer.

It is very unlikely that this event if true happened in quite the  way as reported.

The bank cannot sieze your savings for payment on mortgage. Nor could they delve into a seperate account and remove his funds from his business account.
Forclousure is a long and lengthy process. I believe it is at least a year of non-payment before they can take your house.
Before any assests are frozen it has to go thru the proper channels. The bank cannot randomly take as they choose.
Even those that have their salary garnished ,it is only a percentage they can attach.