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[Hakim]

Adventist Dispensationalism

4. Restored to the Covenant of Grace

After the “old” covenant at Sinai was broken, Moses entered into four intense intercessions with God before "the covenant" was renewed. The broken covenant and the renewed covenant were different. In Exodus 19:4-6 God offered “my covenant” to make of them “a peculiar treasure, a kingdom of priests, an holy nation.” God would do this by grace and the power He showed in delivering them from Egypt.

The people responded by “All that the Lord has said we will do.” This was repeated twice more in Exodus 24 when the old covenant was ratified by animal sacrifice. (“My covenant” can be ratified only by the sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary!) This was a response lacking in faith as the people shortly refused to stand in the presence of God, by the separate ratification ceremony they had, and by their failure within 40 days to keep this covenant.

After Moses’ intercessions God renewed the covenant:

      “Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee” (Exodus 34:10).

A remarkable verse! The marvels? God would make of them “a peculiar treasure, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation!” The evidence of God working among the people is not just important, remarkable, inspiring, or miraculous – it is “terrible!” It is something we don’t have a human word for. This was not the “old covenant,” it was again “my covenant” offered by the grace of God.

5. Do Christians have an Advantage?

Do Christians, having the story of Christ and his life and sacrifice on Calvary and resurrection as a fact, have an advantage over the Old Testament followers of God? No! The Old Testament people had remarkable advantages in the prophets, the Shekinah glory, the Urim and Thummim and other direct manifestations of the power and glory of the living God. There were understandings that developed with the passage of time that were fully revealed only when Jesus came. But the Power of God has always been available to save.

6. Does God have Two Ways to Save People?

Does God have more than one way of Salvation? Is He a respecter of persons? Was looking forward in faith to the coming Redeemer less than our looking back in faith to the fact of His coming? NO! See #5.

7. Behold the Days Come

Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaks of "Behold, the days come."  This phrase is repeated three times in this chapter. What days? What is the context? Jeremiah wrote in the early part of the 70 years captivity. The immediate fulfillment came with the restoration to Israel from their captivity. However, there is more. There is also a prophecy of a Kingdom of righteousness on earth after the seventy weeks of Daniel 24 was fulfilled, coinciding with the coming of the promised Redeemer. The final and complete fulfillment comes at the Second Coming of Christ when sin and sinners are no more, and the righteous are redeemed to live with Him for ever.

Is this promised covenant “new” having never been made before?  Or is it a renewal “my covenant,” the everlasting covenant of God?

The covenant had been renewed many times with Israel. In Jeremiah 31 we can see a renewal of the covenant after the restoration from the captivity, a ratification and confirmation when Jesus came the first time, and a final fulfillment when He comes the second time. “His mercy endureth forever.” The love of God does not change. His arm is not shortened that He cannot save. The plan of salvation has always been open for people to repent and be saved.

8. Did Jesus End an Old Covenant at the Cross?

Did Jesus end the old covenant by His sacrifice, and institute a new covenant? Did "to confirm" the covenant mean to end it? No!

Did Jesus institute the inoperative "new covenant" at that time, thus ending the old covenant? Having evidence that the covenant of grace had been given to Adam and Eve and to Abraham in the past introduces a problem if a person believes that the Old covenant was in force until ended by Jesus at Calvary. To believe that the Old Covenant was instituted at Sinai and continued to the Cross poses a special problem for Adventists. The ten commandment law was clearly associated with the Sinai covenant, even called “the covenant.”

To say the Old Covenant was ended at the Cross raises the question as to what happened to the ten commandments. There is evidence that the ten commandment law is the law of God for all eternity, but this evidence is largely implied in the patriarchal age. In my opinion, there is strong evidence that God has just one everlasting covenant which has been renewed many times, and finally ratified by Jesus at the Cross. This covenant continues into the New Earth when the covenant blessing is given,

      “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God” (Revelation 21:3).

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Hubert F. Sturges

[Hakim]

Suggestion:

I hate long, long posts -- and here I have done the same! Please pardon.
I would suggest that if you find something of interest, just comment on that one point.
We can always come back for more if needed.  Sometimes in discussing one point, other questions are clarified also.
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Hubert F. Sturges

[Hakim]

To summarize what I believe about the Sinai Covenant: 
In Exodus 19:4-6 God offered to them the Abrahamic covenant, calling it "my covenant."  This is a significant term. "My covenant" indicates something that belongs to God, something that was formulated before Sinai. This term is used 51 times in the Bible.
The Abrahamic covenant is also called the everlasting covenant, and the "new covenant" by EGW (PP 370-373).  It was a good covenant. A covenant of grace (Exodus 19:4). It included the ten commandment law as the guidelines to make of them "an holy nation" by grace. There was no fault in this covenant.

There was a faulty covenant made at Sinai. When Moses carried the covenant message to the elders, they responded "All that the Lord hath spoken, we will do." While this is a good statement, implying good intentions, there is evidence that it was presumptuous and self confident. Instead of faith, they feared God. They refused to come into His presence when He came down on the mount. In Exodus 24 they went through a ratification ceremony.

The everlasting covenant or "new covenant" was ratified by Jesus on the cross. The ceremony made in Exodus 24 could have no significance for "my covenant."

As further evidence that the covenant of human promises was a different and faulty covenant is that within 40 days, they had broken this covenant in a most egregious manner.

When the covenant was again given to the people after Moses' intercessions, it was again a covenant of grace (Exodus 34:10).  this is an overview, and there will be many questions......
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Hubert F. Sturges

[Johann]

With this you are presenting the core of the Gospel. Here we see the difference between the divine and human efforts. This does not diminish our obligation towards God, but it emphasizes that it is God's covenant.

Would you say that every sin has its roots in switching from God's eternal Covenant to the human covenant in Ex. 24, even if the terms are unknown?

[Hakim]

Johann,

Would you say that every sin has its roots in switching from God's eternal Covenant to the human covenant in Ex. 24, even if the terms are unknown?

Sin is a very large subject in itself. To answer your question directly; that there are sins of attempting to do God's will by our own efforts. These usually arise from human pride. The person who does this does not want to admit that he needs God. He wants to do it himself.
Then there are sins of selfishness. Arrogance, desire for power, money, material things.  Not giving God appreciation. Not honoring God for what He has done.
How about sins of rebellion, a direct attack against God?
You can add to the list.

The Ten Commandments describe what sin is. We look at these as being a picture of the "performance" that God requires. The ten can be summarized as two -- love for God and love for our fellow man.  Lacking love for God leads to pride.  Lacking love for our fallow man leads to selfishness. Pride and selfishness are thus the root causes of sin in this paradigm. And pride and selfishness are the core of the sinful nature. We cannot overcome pride and selfishness without becoming more proud and selfish -- except by the grace and power of God.

Thus, the Ten Commandments relate not just to performance, but to the very nature of man itself.  This is how I see it.  I'd be interested in your comments.
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Hubert F. Sturges

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Johann,

Would you say that every sin has its roots in switching from God's eternal Covenant to the human covenant in Ex. 24, even if the terms are unknown?

Sin is a very large subject in itself. To answer your question directly; that there are sins of attempting to do God's will by our own efforts. These usually arise from human pride. The person who does this does not want to admit that he needs God. He wants to do it himself.
Then there are sins of selfishness. Arrogance, desire for power, money, material things.  Not giving God appreciation. Not honoring God for what He has done.
How about sins of rebellion, a direct attack against God?
You can add to the list.

The Ten Commandments describe what sin is. We look at these as being a picture of the "performance" that God requires. The ten can be summarized as two -- love for God and love for our fellow man.  Lacking love for God leads to pride.  Lacking love for our fallow man leads to selfishness. Pride and selfishness are thus the root causes of sin in this paradigm. And pride and selfishness are the core of the sinful nature. We cannot overcome pride and selfishness without becoming more proud and selfish -- except by the grace and power of God.

Thus, the Ten Commandments relate not just to performance, but to the very nature of man itself.  This is how I see it.  I'd be interested in your comments.
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Hubert F. Sturges

Based upon the Biblical Record and the Counsels this would appear to be an excellent summary.

Thanks for continuing the study, by the way. I shall have to look at your site.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Johann]

Johann,



Sin is a very large subject in itself. To answer your question directly; that there are sins of attempting to do God's will by our own efforts. These usually arise from human pride. The person who does this does not want to admit that he needs God. He wants to do it himself.
Then there are sins of selfishness. Arrogance, desire for power, money, material things.  Not giving God appreciation. Not honoring God for what He has done.
How about sins of rebellion, a direct attack against God?
You can add to the list.

The Ten Commandments describe what sin is. We look at these as being a picture of the "performance" that God requires. The ten can be summarized as two -- love for God and love for our fellow man.  Lacking love for God leads to pride.  Lacking love for our fallow man leads to selfishness. Pride and selfishness are thus the root causes of sin in this paradigm. And pride and selfishness are the core of the sinful nature. We cannot overcome pride and selfishness without becoming more proud and selfish -- except by the grace and power of God.

Thus, the Ten Commandments relate not just to performance, but to the very nature of man itself.  This is how I see it.  I'd be interested in your comments.
--------------------------
Hubert F. Sturges

I have heard people say that the only definition of sin is found in 1. John 3:4. It seems to me there is a further definition found in vv. 22-24 in that same chapter. What is your idea?

[Hakim]

There are several words that are used to mean sin of one type or another:
 . . . . Sin - transgression of the law. Most people take the narrow view that relates only to performance issues. With a broad understanding of the law, this is a good summary.
 . . . . Transgression - seems to limit one to direct breaking of the law.
 . . . . Iniquity - persistent sin and of having a sinful nature.
 . . . . Rebellion - overt defiance of God. Often occurs subtly in other situations.
 . . . . Unbelief - a very basic cause of sin (talk to Bill Sorenson on www.Covenantforum.com or www.atomorrow.com )
 . . . . Coventousness - materialism, love of money
You add to the list.....

   "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
   "And this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment" (1 John 3:22-23

These are very good verses. They require more thought than does 1 John 3:4. I would say that when "commandments" are directly referred to it is usually the ten commandments.  But it goes one step further -- to do those things that are pleasing in His sight. We don't want to just "squeak" into heaven, we want to walk in on a red carpet with the bands playing. We want to be welcomed by Jesus and the angels. We want to feel that we belong there. For this we will do whatever "is pleasing in His sight."

We begin by believing on the name of Jesus Christ. This is where grace comes from and where we must begin. Then we show our love to God by showing love to one another!  (That is the hard part!)
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Hubert F. Sturges

[Azenilto Brito]

       The dilemma of Dispensation theology is that these people who subscribe to it don't know how to answer the question: how were people saved in OT times? I have addressed this question to many adherents of that view and some answers are really incredible, like one who said, "Well, they were not judged yet. . .". Another answered--"They will be saved by faithfull obedience" (which includes NO ONE). And a third answer was--"Jesus went to preach the gospel to those in prison. . ."
       Now, I asked the one who said that they were not judged yet what would be the criteria for their judgment when they will be judged. He didn't answer me. I insisted in a few days with the same question. No answer again. I asked a third time--nothing said. Again I returned to the same question, and finally he gave me the following answer: He called a friend of his who worked in the Immigration Dept. in the Fort Lauderdale, Fla., to check my condition (whether I was legally or illegally in the country), and even bragged to the other participants of this discussion group that if I were here illegally he would see to it that I were deported! That was his answer, no kidding. . .
       By the way, since I am an American citizen since December 2006.

[Hakim]

Azenilto,
What will you ask when you find out that many Adventists also believe in a form of dispensationalism. By that I mean that they believe that the Jews in the Old Testament were under the Old Covenant, and that the New Covenant was instituted after Jesus died and was resurrected.

Included in this is the ten commandments given at Sinai. They will say that the commandments then were written on stone, were an instrument of condemnation, and that after Jesus died and was resurrected the law is written on the heart.

Added to this is the belief that the sacrifices and ceremonies were a part of the covenant, and since they were ended at the cross, the covenant was also at that time ended - fulfilled and the ten commandments no longer in force.

There are very real problems in this scenario. In my opinion it is not Biblical. Presentations of the covenant in Exodus 19:4-6 and Exodus 34:10 show what God will do by His grace and power in the lives of men in the Old Testament. Many verses also show that God has always been primarily concerned with a changed life, not just an outward keeping of the commandments.
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Hubert F. Sturges

[sky]

Very interesting discussion! If i may intrude on your conversation, I would like to bring to your attention what the Holy Spirit, through the apostle Paul, said about the two covenants. Both covenants deal with the law of ten commandents. The old covenant is "the letter" and the new covenant is "the Spirit". Paul says that the law engraved on stones is the ministry of condemnation and death. 2 Cor.3:7.  It is as cold as the stones it is engraved upon or as dry as the ink it is written with. The mere letter of the word of God cannot impart life to the sinner and yet it is a "glorious ministry" since it reveals to us our sinful condition and our need of a Saviour. "The letter kills." 2 Cor.3:6,7. If the ministry of the letter of the law, the ministry of death, is a glorious ministry, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be! For "The Spirit gives life." 2 Cor.3:6.

In other words, received as the voice of God speaking to the soul, the law of ten precepts is Spirit and life to the hearer and therefore the ministry of righteousness. "The Spirit is life because of righteousness." Rom.8:10. Thus it is written, "I the Lord speak righteousness." "The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness." "All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." "All Thy commandments are righteousness." Isaiah 45:19,23;Prov.8:8;Psalm 119:172.

At Sinai the people were afraid of the voice that would have imparted a new life to them in Christ Jesus. They did not submit to the voice of Him whose word would have renewed the soul unto everlasting life! John 12:50. They asked that Moses speak to them instead. Shortly after, the law was engraved on stones and the people made a covenant or promised to obey all that the Lord had said but shortly after they broke that covenant. The will to obey the law was not lacking but the power to obey was certainly lacking because the letter cannot impart life to the sinner to enable him to obey that law. This experience is well described in Romans 7. There are many who are living under that covenant today even among those of us who profess to believe present truth.

In the New Covenant which was available at Sinai, the people are to receive the ten precepts as the voice of God speaking to the soul in promise. In that Covenant, the people of God make no promise to obey. It is God who makes the promises. Every command is a promise, a most positive promise of its own fulfilment! In that covenant the people, like Abraham, are fully convinced that "What He has promised He is also able to perform." Rom.4:21.

"The ten precepts of the greatest love ever presented to men is the voice of God speaking to the soul in promise. There is not a negative in that law although it may appear thus." E.G. White, 1 B.C.1105.

In other words, afer we have been convicted of sin by the letter of the law we are to come to Christ and receive that same law from His mouth! "Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth." Prov.22:22.  Then that law is Spirit and life to the hearer! The same law that was once a ministry of death to him has now become the ministry of life, for proceeding out of the mouth of God that same law imparts power, it begets life, even the life of the Infinite One to transform the nature and re-create the soul in the image of God:

"The word of God is the seed. Every seed has in itself a germinating principle. In it the life of the plant is enfolded. So there is life in God's word. Christ says, 'The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life.' In every command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the word is receiving the very life and character of God." Christ's Object Lessons, p.38.

Here is the same truth expressed differently:

"The creative energy (Holy Spirit) that called the worlds into existence is in the word of God. This word imparts power; it begets life. Every command is a promise; accepted by the will, received into the soul, it brings with it the life of the Infinite One. It transforms the nature and re-creates the soul in the image of God. The life thus imparted is in like manner sustained, by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Education, p.126.

"His power, His very life dwells in His word. Receive the word in faith and it will give you power to obey." Mount of Blessing, p.150.

To receive the word in faith is to receive it as the word of God to us, not written merely, but spoken! "Only he who receives the Scriptures as the voice of God speaking to himself is a true  learner." Christ's Object Lessons, p.59.

"He awakens me morning by morning, He awakens my ear, to hear as the learned. The Lord God has opened my ear." Isiaah 50:4,5.


"My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and I give them eternal life." John 10:27; 12:50.

"Be ye followers of God." Eph.5:1. This command is eternal life! Received as the voice of God speaking to us, we become followers of God in Christ Jesus by the creative energy that is in His word and the life of Christ which is thus imparted is in like manner sustained, by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God!

"Let those who have heard only traditions and human theories and maxims hear the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life." Christ's Object Lessons, p.40. Amen!

sky

[inga]

Thank you, Sky, for explicating this truth so clearly.

The "old covenant" is really not the Lord's doing. It is man's response that made it "old."

And, of course, what we know of the "new covenant" pre-dates the "old," being in place at "the foundation of the world."

[Hakim]

Sky and Inge;

What more can I say after your excellent posts.
Actually, I am not good at conversation, but I have no trouble writing, so -- you asked for it!

About that "cold stone" and "dry ink" ....
We have to remember that Paul had a running battle with the Judaizers.  Much of what he wrote about the covenant, the sacrifices, the law, faith and grace comes in this context.  Thus the context of Paul's writing is a little different than what it was when the law and the covenant were given  at Sinai.

As you mentioned, God offered "my covenant" in Exodus 19:4-6.  It was a good covenant. A covenant of grace, offered to Adam and to Abraham, and now to Israel at Sinai. The promises were grand, to make of Israel "a peculiar treasure above all peoples" and "a kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation." There was the preamble of grace to both the covenant and to the ten commandment law (Exodus 19:4 and 20:2).

Here is a list of references that show that God wanted Heart religion even in the Old Testament:
Deut. 5:29   “O that there were such an heart in them, that they .. keep all my commandments.”
Deut. 30:6   “The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,... to love the LORD thy God.”
Psalm 37:31   “The law of his God is in his (the righteous’) heart;”
Psalm 40:8   “I delight to do thy will, O my God; yea, thy law is within my heart.”
Psalm 51:10   “Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.”
Isaiah 1:17   “Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings...”
Ez. 11:19   “I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:”
Ez. 36:26   “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:”

This list is not complete by any means.
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Hubert F. Sturges