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[Bob Pickle]

The point has been raised that Ellen White in her prophetic role had the authority that comes with that office.

God at creation and the Fall established roles for men and women, giving women the more important, lofty, and rewarding work of raising children, which in turn determines the future of society.

As we look at Scripture, most prophets have been men, but there have been women prophets too. Does the fact that there have been women prophets alter the roles God established at creation and the Fall? If it did, we might expect there to have been a female priest or Levite working at the sanctuary at some point after Deborah served as prophet, but we find none.

Does God's exceptions neutralize the rules that God has established?

One rule God imposed at Sinai was that only Aaronic priests could offer sacrifices. However, even there there was an exception, namely Moses. But Moses' offering sacrifices did not abolish the rule.

Gideon was explicitly told by God to offer a sacrifice. He wasn't even a Levite. Patriarchs and Prophets 547 addresses this exception. ("The offering of sacrifice to God had been committed to the priests, and had been restricted to the altar at Shiloh; but He who had established the ritual service, and to whom all its offerings pointed, had power to change its requirements.") Later, after defeating the Midianites, though Gideon refused to be made king, he did allow and encourage his family to be made into a new priesthood, justifying it on the basis that God had told him to offer that sacrifice. He was wrong (PP 555-556).

"Samuel saw at once that Saul had gone contrary to the express directions that had been given him. He had not waited till the seven days had expired. He had not humbly fulfilled the word of the Lord, nor regarded the law of the offerings. He had been charged to wait for Samuel, who was chosen of the Lord, and fitted for the very service that Saul had performed with unsanctified hands" (ST 05-11-88).

If Samuel who was a Levite and not a priest could offer sacrifice, why couldn't Saul? Doesn't the exceptions God makes neutralize His commands? No, they do not.

[Artiste]

The point has been raised that Ellen White in her prophetic role had the authority that comes with that office.

God at creation and the Fall established roles for men and women, giving women the more important, lofty, and rewarding work of raising children, which in turn determines the future of society.

As we look at Scripture, most prophets have been men, but there have been women prophets too. Does the fact that there have been women prophets alter the roles God established at creation and the Fall? If it did, we might expect there to have been a female priest or Levite working at the sanctuary at some point after Deborah served as prophet, but we find none.

Does God's exceptions neutralize the rules that God has established?

One rule God imposed at Sinai was that only Aaronic priests could offer sacrifices. However, even there there was an exception, namely Moses. But Moses' offering sacrifices did not abolish the rule.

Gideon was explicitly told by God to offer a sacrifice. He wasn't even a Levite. Patriarchs and Prophets 547 addresses this exception. ("The offering of sacrifice to God had been committed to the priests, and had been restricted to the altar at Shiloh; but He who had established the ritual service, and to whom all its offerings pointed, had power to change its requirements.") Later, after defeating the Midianites, though Gideon refused to be made king, he did allow and encourage his family to be made into a new priesthood, justifying it on the basis that God had told him to offer that sacrifice. He was wrong (PP 555-556).

"Samuel saw at once that Saul had gone contrary to the express directions that had been given him. He had not waited till the seven days had expired. He had not humbly fulfilled the word of the Lord, nor regarded the law of the offerings. He had been charged to wait for Samuel, who was chosen of the Lord, and fitted for the very service that Saul had performed with unsanctified hands" (ST 05-11-88).

If Samuel who was a Levite and not a priest could offer sacrifice, why couldn't Saul? Doesn't the exceptions God makes neutralize His commands? No, they do not.

That's a good exposition of why women shouldn't take authority over men. 

[Daryl Fawcett]

Reading this and the other threads here with great interest.

Can anybody explain how the following verse relates to all of this?

Judges 4:4  And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.

[Gregory]

Yes, it clearly shows us that in Old Testament times God had females in leadership roles over men.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Yes, it clearly shows us that in Old Testament times God had females in leadership roles over men.

That seems to be the case in the civic or state sense, but is there any example of this being the case in the church sense?

[Gregory]

She is identified as being  a prophetess.  I would say that is spiritual.

Yes the res is civil.

If in Old testament times, the Bible cold acknowledge women as civil leadres, I would not think that they could not be religious leaders.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I see the function of prophet/prophetess as a direct call to that function by God, but not as a call by the church itself, although it could or could not be recognized by the church itself. 

I also do not see it as a church leadership role, but as a God's Messenger role to the church.

She is identified as being  a prophetess.  I would say that is spiritual.

Yes the res is civil.

If in Old testament times, the Bible cold acknowledge women as civil leadres, I would not think that they could not be religious leaders.

[Gregory]

Daryl said:

I also do not see it as a church leadership role, but as a God's Messenger role to the church.

The issue is to look to see what the role of the prophet was  in O.T. tiems.  That role may (?) have been different from that roletodayl.

The following are selected statements (perhaps made in my own words)  from the SDA Dictionary, 1979 edition (revised), page 903.
1) The priest was the people's representative before God, their spokesperson and mediator.
2) The priest was mediator of the sacrificial system and led in worship.
3) Religioius instruction was the primary duty of the prophet.
4) The prophet was a teacher of righteousness, spirituality and ethical conduct, a moral reformer, instructing, counseling, admonishing and warning which sometimes included prediction of future events.
5) In the case of Moses, the prophet, prediction was a minor function.
\
Looks to me like spiritual leadership.

[Bob Pickle]

Reading this and the other threads here with great interest.

Can anybody explain how the following verse relates to all of this?

Judges 4:4  And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.

The other instances where women served as civil rulers was when Jezebel was queen in Israel, and Athaliah her daughter was queen in Judah. While these queens created a total nightmare, Deborah's ministry was a tremendous blessing.

However, it should be noted that prophetess Deborah and God rebuked Barak for his refusal to be a man and go out to war without Deborah at his side.

How did Deborah come to be in the position of judge? We simply do not know. A lot of details are left out of Judges. We only have snapshots. Take for example Eli the high priest. Why was he even high priest? He wasn't of the lineage of Phinehas, whose lineage you would think should have held that position (Num. 25:11 ff.). In Solomon's time Eli's lineage was removed entirely from the priesthood, and Phinehas' lineage took over. But why was Eli ever high priest? We simply do not know.

Why was Samuel able to officiate as if he was a priest? We don't know.