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[tinka]

In case you don't know it but there is a law against adultery...You can now get divorced because of it...  Wonder why that is???

In the United States, one can get divorced from many reasons that are not against the law.

Yes, adultry is against the law in some places and it others it is not against the law.

Exactly my whole point- We are now abiding by man's laws and God's thrown out.  Some places just haven't succumbed yet. and also the same example seen with in SDA church now going on for the sifting under many issues. 

[Bob Pickle]

Why would it make any difference whether our government was protestant or Catholic? Governments based on either side of that coin have an equally appalling history of oppression and violence against their own people. Claiming to have a government founded on Christianity is nothing to brag about, it is something to be ashamed of.

Good question. The fact of the matter is that a Protestant government that doesn't allow liberty of conscience isn't really any longer a Protestant government. If the Bible forbids the civil enforcement of the 1st table of the Decalog, then no Protestant government can enforce the 1st table and remain Protestant, since Protestantism holds the Bible as being the supreme authority.

[Bob Pickle]

I believe Christians can vote for Obama because we believe is freedom of conscience and civil rights --completely.   Yes!  Completely.  For everyone.  Even the adulterer--who has a legal right to have sex outside of marriage.  ARe we rasing cain about that?  Certainly not.

I don't think you have provided a rational or logical or biblical basis for your position. "Completely"? So should we have civil rights for drug dealers? Since when is gay marriage on a par with freedom of conscience? Can you name me one sodomite whose conscience tells him that he must engage in the unnatural crime of sodomy?

"Even the adulterer--who has a legal right to have sex outside of marriage." Your statement is false. God is the ultimate ruler of this world, and He has said that adultery is illegal. Whether man's governments want to pretend it's legal or not does not change the fact that it remains illegal.

"Intemperate men should not by vote of the people be placed in positions of trust" (Te 47).

If Obama drinks and/or smokes, then Te 47 says we should not vote for him.

[Gregory]

So, should we vote for Obama if it is true that he has conquered teh cigerate habit, or if he is attempting to do so, but not quite made it yet?

[Gregory]

I suspect that everyone  reading these posts has been injured through living in a world of sin.  We lack inate knowledge of God and God's interactions with us.  We all started down the wrong path.  My trust is in the words of Christ who told us that the Holy Sirit would replace Him and becoue our spiritual guide.  As humans, it is not likely that any of us could take being given a full knowledge of what God would like to say to us.  The Holy Spirit has to lead us step by step.  Case in point:  Let us say, as Bob has suggested, that God would not want us to vote for any person who uses tobacco or drinks alcoholic beverages.  O.K.  Saying so does not mean that such is the message of the Holy Spirit to everyone reading these posts.  It jsut might be that the Holy Spirit has larger concerns for some of us and therefore will not convict us that God does not want us to vote for a President who smokes a cigarette.   If so, that might come later, but not now?  [NOTE:  I am not making the claim tha Bob made.]

However, if any of you reading this feel convicted to vote only for someone who neilther used tobacco or alcoholic beverages, I give you permission to vote for me as a "write-in" candidate for the President of the United States.  NOTE:  I plan to vote in the up-comming electionand to vote for a candidate for President.  As my vote is private, I do not disclose whom I might         vote for.  Perhaps,  I will vote for myself.  I do not use either tobacco or alcoholic beverages.


     

 

[christian]

I believe Christians can vote for Obama because we believe is freedom of conscience and civil rights --completely.   Yes!  Completely.  For everyone.  Even the adulterer--who has a legal right to have sex outside of marriage.  ARe we rasing cain about that?  Certainly not.

I don't think you have provided a rational or logical or biblical basis for your position. "Completely"? So should we have civil rights for drug dealers? Since when is gay marriage on a par with freedom of conscience? Can you name me one sodomite whose conscience tells him that he must engage in the unnatural crime of sodomy?

"Even the adulterer--who has a legal right to have sex outside of marriage." Your statement is false. God is the ultimate ruler of this world, and He has said that adultery is illegal. Whether man's governments want to pretend it's legal or not does not change the fact that it remains illegal.

"Intemperate men should not by vote of the people be placed in positions of trust" (Te 47).

If Obama drinks and/or smokes, then Te 47 says we should not vote for him.

Interesting position, then who should we vote for then? From the historical account of the previous presidents, all of them are intemperate in some measure. And history will tell you that the vast majority of them lied to the American public too. ----You will notice from my post that I stated I can vote for neither Obama or Romney, both of the individuals have positions that I am extremely opposed to. I have to use a slidding scale when deciding who to vote for based on my own limits. Personally I have set limits that may not be the same limits as others have. Whereas I understand that Obama made no law making legal marriage between two men or two women, there is something inherently wrong with trying to justify obvious deviant behavior. On the otherhand Romeys "corporation's are people too" is an obvious sign that he will have no compassion for the poor and helpless masses. I am not blind to the fact that some here have others issues with Obama which have manifested itself in their attacks on the Presidents wife and family. I have never been obliged to vote for or against someone based on the amount of skin color or lack thereof. There is obvious scriptural council against the base act of sodomy in the bible. I am also aware that adultery, fornication, divorce and many other like things are spoken against in the bible with equal consequences. The reason God died on the cross of calvary was to ransom us from these sins. However, certain sins do cause greater harm to the good of humanity than others. Sin must remain sin and be seen as thus otherwise we commit the unpardonable sin in that we except the sin as righteousness. I am aware of many a divorce person who understands his sin and goes to the lord of heaven for forgiveness. God does forgive and restore, but to make the marriage institution a haven for the nasty stick is deplorable to the extreme. Or to give license to two women to share their breast together under the institution of marriage is an abomination.

[tinka]

I sure do agree with all that. We are in a shivering time. Sure will be hard for me to vote too. Before always had my husband to go over all the fine details of each as we always thought that if you live in this country and enjoy what freedoms --you have duty to be part of it. Then to cast a vote to the best you can with what knowledge you can gather for the best of the people according to God's plan. 

Never would I have picked Romney and don't like anything about it. If I could have picked now by myself without my husbands views and following as much as I can, my first instincts better then Romney and could be all wrong with it was Gingrich, Palin and even ol Trump.  I will tell you why. Gingrich with marital background and his acknowledgment of remorse and forgiveness seemed to know the ropes of the most intelligent in political views to counteract much to be turned around but still had reservations and could accomplish what he said he could.  Palin I like although liberals hate her. So that tells me as bad as she was attacked that he must stand well in biblical rights so that drew my attention.  She is smarter then you think. But now trump as arrogant as he is I truly believe can handle evil for evil lol lol and that is for sure.  He has great sense of all working the game of propriety lol.  I would not be afraid with him as president for the short time we must have left. I think Romney holds surprises. but not bigger then Obama's surprises to his own race and the biggie coming if reelected to our amazement and before Obama I knew his background as we looked at him when he was really young long years ago. At first we fell for his speech and other things did not hold up and now my husband was right as we now can see.  It's a very hard thing for me to do now without him. So it appears we do not have much choice this time around. I hope our next choice will be the King  of all our hearts and this all will be gone. But now we wait and watch and act the best we can and do vote against the evil as much as we can.

 It does take intelligence and respect of God's will to know that smoking and drinking is weakness signs in ones character. among other things as well.  so if that is all there is guess Romney is on the ballet. But over him I would have voted for Trump to battle evil for evil. lol lol and that would have definitely kept Satan busy (laugh) laugh).  What a situation we have. I don't think that Trump smokes or drinks, unless a little wine not sure. lol

The only thing left we have is Our great people of this nation, and the people of God's army of all races in unity to fight until the end with our minds in the highest frame possible.

[Bob Pickle]

Let us say, as Bob has suggested, that God would not want us to vote for any person who uses tobacco or drinks alcoholic beverages.  O.K.  Saying so does not mean that such is the message of the Holy Spirit to everyone reading these posts.

But Gregory, it was the Holy Spirit, not me, that inspired Ellen White to write Te 47. I wasn't even born until nearly 50 years after she died!

Does Obama drink?

[Gregory]

Bob:

I assume that neither your nor I are fully informed as to what God has to say to usl.  I assume that both you and Ihave more to learn.  If so, as I understand the words of Christ, it is the Holy irit that will lead us to the point of conviction.  In that process, I believe that the Holy Spirit will lead you and I step by step and probably with the most important first.

[Gregory]

  Intemperate men should not by vote of the people be placed in positions of trust. Their influence corrupts others, and grave responsibilities are involved. With brain and nerve narcotized by tobacco and stimulus they make a law of their nature, and when the immediate influence is gone there is a collapse. Frequently human life is hanging in the balance; on the decision of men in these positions of trust depends life and liberty, or bondage and despair. How necessary that all who take part in these transactions should be men proved, men of self-culture, men of honesty and truth, of stanch integrity, who will spurn a bribe, who will not allow their judgment or convictions of right to be swerved by partiality or prejudice. Thus saith the Lord, "Thou shalt not wrest the judgment of thy poor in his cause. Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked. And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous."--Signs of the Times, July 8, 1880.  {Te 47.2} 

     Only men of strict temperance and integrity should be admitted to our legislative halls and chosen to preside in our courts of justice.

I believe that the above is the passage that Bob references.

[Johann]

Many years ago I served as the Director of Temperance in my Conference and as such I was obliged to attend the general assemblies of the National Temperance Association of which we were members.

It was often with great suffering I almost suffocated in the smoke-filled halls where the delegates of other temperance societies where puffing their pipes, cigars, or cigarettes. We felt we had a mission there, and we assisted each other in the "temperance" work of fighting alcohol and alcohol legislation.

Ellen G White attended and spoke frequently at the gatherings of other temperance people. I do not recall her mentioning the use of tobacco by some people at these gatherings, although she definitely spoke forcefully against the use of tobacco.

[christian]

Many years ago I served as the Director of Temperance in my Conference and as such I was obliged to attend the general assemblies of the National Temperance Association of which we were members.

It was often with great suffering I almost suffocated in the smoke-filled halls where the delegates of other temperance societies where puffing their pipes, cigars, or cigarettes. We felt we had a mission there, and we assisted each other in the "temperance" work of fighting alcohol and alcohol legislation.

Ellen G White attended and spoke frequently at the gatherings of other temperance people. I do not recall her mentioning the use of tobacco by some people at these gatherings, although she definitely spoke forcefully against the use of tobacco.

I believe that Obama's support of Gay marriage will be a blight on his Presidency. I also believe that if Romney gets into office that this country will suffer much worse than it currently is. I have this one comfort and that is that that Bible says and this Gospel will be preached unto all the world and then shall the end come. I want to make my position very clear I have no hatred for people that engage in deviant behavior, I do have sympathy for them too. Just like I don't believe the bible condons divorce or premarital sex, I believe God can and does forgive. But one of my pet peeves is when we try and make wrong right. If a man is divorced remarried and repents to God, I believe God forgives.