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[Bob Pickle]

. . . they had licenses but not credentials,. . .

The above is correct.

At the time those licenses were granted, licenses were granted to clergy who were not ordained.  IOW, they were a lower level of clergy.

The historical record is clear that some served in positions that are normally filled by ordained clergy today.  E.G.  One licensed female served for a short period of time as a Conference President.  As I recall, it was the Iowa Conference.

Keep in mind that int he early days the ordained SDA clergy  did not spend all their time at a single home congregation.  Rather they visited congregations and engaged in evangelism.  You would likely find that some of the listed females assisted in evangelism as well as care of congregations.

One evangelist reported on how meetings were going in a locality, and expressed appreciation for one of these ladies being there to help with the preaching and visiting. That was a far cry from what is being sought today.

[Bob Pickle]

Nobody has answered what I wrote here: There is not a single statement where Ellen White says that women should not be ordained. 

You have not provided a single quotation where Ellen White forbids the ordination of women.

In the Bible, when things aren't even an issue, one often can't find a passage that positively affirms the correct side of the issue. For example, can you show me a verse in the NT where Gentile Christians are commanded to keep the Sabbath?

(For those who insist on such a text, it is helpful to ask them if they believe in tithing. If they say yes, tell them you agree, and then ask them where in the NT it says that Gentile Christians are supposed to tithe.)

But here is a quote that I think is applicable:

Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband's side in her Eden home; but, like restless modern Eves, she was flattered with the hope of entering a higher sphere than that which God had assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position, she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully their life duties in accordance with God's plan. In their efforts to reach positions for which He has not fitted them, many are leaving vacant the place where they might be a blessing. In their desire for a higher sphere, many have sacrificed true womanly dignity and nobility of character, and have left undone the very work that Heaven appointed them.

Note that the preceding paragraph speaks of Eve being placed in subjection to her husband. So Ellen White speaks of restless modern Eves in that context.

Note also that 3T 483 repeats the above, and then adds the following:

There is a work for women that is even more important and elevating than the duties of the king upon his throne. They may mold the minds of their children and shape their characters so that they may be useful in this world and that they may become sons and daughters of God. ... There is enough necessary and important labor in this world of need and suffering without wasting precious moments for ornamentation or display. ... If they are indeed the daughters of God they will be partakers of the divine nature. They will be stirred with deepest pity, as was their divine Redeemer, as they see the corrupting influences in society. They will be in sympathy with Christ, and in their sphere, as they have ability and
opportunity, will work to save perishing souls as Christ worked in His exalted sphere for the benefit of man.

A neglect on the part of woman to follow God's plan in her creation, an effort to reach for important positions which He has not qualified her to fill, leaves vacant the position that she could fill to acceptance. In getting out of her sphere, she loses true womanly dignity and nobility.

The whole issue got started last fall over the E60 policy, which is all about "important positions." It's all about whether or not a woman can serve as a conference or mission president. And the NPUC press release about their May 16 decision is about that very same thing: important positions. The NPUC press release says nothing about ordination.

Therefore, I think the above SoP warnings are applicable to the present situation, except that today we also have restless modern Adams helping the restless modern Eves reach for important positions, helping them lose true womanly dignity and nobility.

[Johann]

----
Therefore, I think the above SoP warnings are applicable to the present situation, except that today we also have restless modern Adams helping the restless modern Eves reach for important positions, helping them lose true womanly dignity and nobility.

Dignified thinking of a manhood and elevated status attained by the humble Adam who discovers his importance by chasing those restless Eves who might get tempted to reach somewhat higher than their grandmothers in working for God.

Lots of improvements and more elevated thinking for the male, based on humiliating those females who should have remained in their ancient kitchens.

Bob, from the age of 5 until I was 15 I lived where we had no electricity and my dear mother cooked by coal and kerosene. She had to heat her iron in an open fire before she could press her clothes. No running water.

Summers our bus arrived on Wednesdays. No telephone. The bus driver would bring our supplies to us on the following Wednesday. Then we had to transport them by horse the last couple of miles.

In my lifetime I have seen the development from antiquity to modern times. Something happened to me when I entered my teens. I decided I wanted to follow God all the way. My mother was my spiritual guide much more than my dad, who was a literature evangelist. I suppose I inherited some of his stubbornness and would have been much worse than I am today if it had not been for the spiritual guidance from my mother.

It was not until several years after he died mother told me how he had fought his homosexuality, and yet how it influenced his thinking. I think the Lord helped him conquer his physical inclinations and therefore he will be saved. But today I see this same way of thinking in all those super-duper "sanctified" males who galore, even in our church, polishing their own image at the expense of females.

Both of my parents lie in their grave but 10 minutes from our place. I look forward to meeting them again on the resurrection morning, but I would be ashamed of meeting her again if I should bow to the pressure from people who think we should follow the Roman Catholic pattern on womanhood.

[tinka]

Seems you have followed too much of the Catholic religion and not fastened to simple American English contexts of SDA and that is why you do not see the simple wording of EGW as she instructed in ways of carefulness, especially in the time of "women's movements".  We should follow her instead of looking for all things believed to be in Catholic infiltration of SDA church. It is very very evident that in your country and directions of SDA followers it is very infiltrated with the Reform movements way of speaking and twisting. I am very familiar with the tactics,  It is no difference in my contacts with them then what I am reading on here.  One thing you can take to the bank if you look for the twisted agenda's Satan will surely let you find it and be blinded as the Jews for your own perceived views.  It is clear in our American understanding especially with those that do read EGW in entirety can grasp quickly the truth of the matter.  Follow the inspired Writer and not the organized church who soon some inside (not all)will bring on the Omega of our foundation by these issues gaining ground everyday. 

We can go to no one for our source of truth including parents, teachers preachers, etc. We must be sanctified and sealed by our own finding of truth to the best of our abilities and search till all comes together. It is very appalling to read where distinct wording is and then deny it is even stating the very thing that you keep coming back with that it isn't. It is obvious you are not that familiar with the contexts on which she writes.

and Bob I remember reading what you just posted but could not put my finger on it quickly or I would have posted that too so that is a very exact point.

and Johann, the up to date progressions are just the opposite. it is Men's virtues being taken away by the women.   and that is a book full.  Funny how you must approve of and see no problem with a "mannish women behind the pulpit.) and I believe this ordeal with your father has also presented some effects as I can now understand and tell. It's best not to divulge some situations, I do not have any respect for Tommy S. wife or family. They knew it and did nothing but hide it to the injury of others and who knows what extent and how many people it hurt. I am sure you might suffer those thoughts too. But then it is impossible for you to know the extent other then what your mother said. So that is one problem I see with some of your 'questions of instigation's to bring down for reasons I am wondering" It's not just been this subject but others too in "fishing" to bring around to your way of views. No where does EGW state to "ordain women as "clergy" as you want to believe.

It would be better for you to present where she state to do it instead of this twisting of plain "inspired words" that bring your view into non existence.  I also had a very inspiring mother and I know without doubt she would not have stayed with this situation nor would I either.  I feel that would only be normal management of wanting normality.  The other to stay is not normal when Known.  Tommy was not an evangelist but worked for the church too. the same as your father worked for the church, But the church is the best place to be to be overlooked with such a problem. I am sorry for anyone living under those situations but the effects of it are seen by others no matter how and when it comes out. And not I understand your point of "older marriage" thread more then you think.

[Johann]

I am supporting a growing group of American Seventh-day Adventist who have reached the conclusion on the basis of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy that it is right to work towards the ordination of women.

I suggest you tell your American friends that they do not understand English, and you will be able to keep on your discussions until the time when a small bright cloud appears in the sky which grows brighter and brighter until you see Jesus appearing.

Since I want to be ready on that day, I want to prepare myself and my loved ones, and leave the defense of truth against this fruitless accusation of the leader's of our church, to others.

I will close with the words of Martin Luther which are inscribed in a stone in Worms:

Here I stand. . .  so help me God.