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[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Simple answer in my book...if you are an unbeliever and do not support the Fundemental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, show real integrity, find your own church and and leave the body of believers to their Faith.

I will repeat that those who pay tithe to the church,entrust their Children and support SDA institutions, whether that be educational, medical and church administrative, have an absolute right to expect that those instructors, administrators and ordained ministers all support, endorse and live the SDA Fundemental Beliefs. If one does not, then they have a "MORAL OBLIGATION" to surrender their credentials and not expect salary, sustentation or other support from those whom have absolute Faith in the Bible, The Spirit of Prophecy and the duly adopted Fundamentals of Faith by the General Conference in session.

There is no higher representation on earth and if you cannot accept that guidance, then exercise your Right of Conscience, leave the Body of Faith and either join a similarly thinking group of biblical allegoryist or set up your own body of Faith for those similarly enjoined in thought and lack of Faith.

The Right of Conscience cuts both ways in that every individual has the Right of Conscience but with that Right of Conscience come the honest duty to recognize that if you do not believe in the Seventh-day Adventist Fundamentals of Faith, that conscience should require your resignation and separation from the Body of Believers that have the full faith and spiritual experience that allows them to live in harmony with the Body of Believers that share so unreservedly in that Faith.

I challenge the allegory crowd to show serious moral character, exercise your Right of Conscience and exit from those who cling to the Faith of Jesus and the Biblical record embodied in that Faith.

I believe unreservedly in the Creation Week Story, the Pre-deluvian, deluvian and post deluvian history. I absolutely believe in the Devine intervention in the Ten Plagues that lead to the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt, the Red Sea road to escape, the Cloud by day and the firey cloud by night, the daily Manna and the parting of the Jordan as they entered Canaan. In summary, I BELIEVE and HAVE ABSOLUTE FAITH IN THE INTEGRITY OF GOD'S MESSAGE AND GUIDEPOSTS TO MAN INCLUDING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN THEIR TOTALITY AND THE PROPHESIES, INCLUDING THE 2300 DAYS AND THE JUDGMENT.

I shall not bore you with the length and breadth of my absolute and unwavering FAITH, but would suggest that if you cannot believe and have no Faith, you are likely much more at home and of HONEST CONSCIENCE outside the BODY OF FAITH represented by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Artiste]

I think that Spectrum and Adventist Today would beg to differ with you.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I think that I have made it clear to Spectrum and Adventist Today that I steadfastly find their stance on this subject a violation of their moral obligation (this same posting is posted at Adventist Today)
and will also point out that "Adventist" Today is no Adventist at all. Explain just what Second Coming the vast majority of AToday editors and staff await? Or are preparing for?

They are not Seventh-day Adventists and that is a provable scientific fact.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

I think that Spectrum and Adventist Today would beg to differ with you.

[Murcielago]

Adventism is a multi-faceted entity, and each facet considers itself to be the sole genuine thing, to the full exclusion of all other people. There is no part of adventism that is genuinely original. Many outgrowths have occurred, and there is none that is truly what it started out as, yet each proclaims itself the only true representation of Christ. It is interesting that Jesus was all about inclusion, but the segmentarians of adventism are devoutly focussed on exclusion and damnation being pronounced on all but themselves.

[Bob Pickle]

Yet there have to be some standards somewhere. When Erv Taylor cannot name a Bible story that he thinks actually happened as written, when he publicly denigrates the biblical accounts of creation and the Flood, and the scientists and laymen who believe those accounts, over and over again, that crosses a definite line.

Read the gospels and you will not find Jesus trying to include the Sadducees in His kingdom with their aberrant theology intact. He told them, "You do err, not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God." How insulting to say this to a group who prided themselves about their knowledge of Scripture! Imagine Erv being told, "You don't know anthropology," and then being left speechless by the answer to his question that follows.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

This premise that being a "Seventh-day Adventist" gives latititude to believe as we choose is hedonism amd humanism rolled into one.

A Seventh-day Adventist is a person whom upon study, prayer and a conversion experience is walking daily with Christ and has adopted the Fundemental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventists adopted by the body of believers based upon a very careful study of the entire scriptures given by God to the Body of Christ.

ALL OTHERS ARE IMPOSTERS AND HAVE TAKEN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IN VAIN.

The test is simple enough and is safely found within the Bible that imposters abrogate as it sets a standard that is unacceptable to their own humanism and selfserving instincts.

The summation of Reveleation is clear, imposters will hear a clear rejection in the form of "I KNOW YOU NOT". You do not want to be there!!!

Study those most precious messages and be as the Bereans and live the Faith of Jesus. IT IS THE ONLY SALVATION. All else is LOST.

And probation for "professed" Seventh-day Adventists closes FIRST. Time is short, get a backbone or you may be be found on the left hand of the Throne.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

Adventism is a multi-faceted entity, and each facet considers itself to be the sole genuine thing, to the full exclusion of all other people. There is no part of adventism that is genuinely original. Many outgrowths have occurred, and there is none that is truly what it started out as, yet each proclaims itself the only true representation of Christ. It is interesting that Jesus was all about inclusion, but the segmentarians of adventism are devoutly focussed on exclusion and damnation being pronounced on all but themselves.

[Jise]

Simple answer in my book...if you are an unbeliever and do not support the Fundemental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, show real integrity, find your own church and and leave the body of believers to their Faith.

I will repeat that those who pay tithe to the church,entrust their Children and support SDA institutions, whether that be educational, medical and church administrative, have an absolute right to expect that those instructors, administrators and ordained ministers all support, endorse and live the SDA Fundemental Beliefs. If one does not, then they have a "MORAL OBLIGATION" to surrender their credentials and not expect salary, sustentation or other support from those whom have absolute Faith in the Bible, The Spirit of Prophecy and the duly adopted Fundamentals of Faith by the General Conference in session.

There is no higher representation on earth and if you cannot accept that guidance, then exercise your Right of Conscience, leave the Body of Faith and either join a similarly thinking group of biblical allegoryist or set up your own body of Faith for those similarly enjoined in thought and lack of Faith.

The Right of Conscience cuts both ways in that every individual has the Right of Conscience but with that Right of Conscience come the honest duty to recognize that if you do not believe in the Seventh-day Adventist Fundamentals of Faith, that conscience should require your resignation and separation from the Body of Believers that have the full faith and spiritual experience that allows them to live in harmony with the Body of Believers that share so unreservedly in that Faith.

I challenge the allegory crowd to show serious moral character, exercise your Right of Conscience and exit from those who cling to the Faith of Jesus and the Biblical record embodied in that Faith.

I believe unreservedly in the Creation Week Story, the Pre-deluvian, deluvian and post deluvian history. I absolutely believe in the Devine intervention in the Ten Plagues that lead to the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt, the Red Sea road to escape, the Cloud by day and the firey cloud by night, the daily Manna and the parting of the Jordan as they entered Canaan. In summary, I BELIEVE and HAVE ABSOLUTE FAITH IN THE INTEGRITY OF GOD'S MESSAGE AND GUIDEPOSTS TO MAN INCLUDING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN THEIR TOTALITY AND THE PROPHESIES, INCLUDING THE 2300 DAYS AND THE JUDGMENT.

I shall not bore you with the length and breadth of my absolute and unwavering FAITH, but would suggest that if you cannot believe and have no Faith, you are likely much more at home and of HONEST CONSCIENCE outside the BODY OF FAITH represented by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

  Gailon - you could be encouraging apostasy in equating all of the Fundamental Beliefs as being the same thing as accepting biblical truth which it is not.  You are quite mistaken to equate the SDA's fundamental beliefs wholly with biblical truth- and in your seeking to deny people or pastors funding - who don't support these beliefs  - you are encouraging wordliness.  As I've said before - the SDA Church is quite a perverted institution because it seems to attract ungodly people to its fold who are simply looking for a meal ticket but don't embody doctrinal godliness or a lifestyle of godliness.

Also - your approach is quite ungodly. What if there are SDA beliefs that are in fact ungodly - are you saying if such a person even questions rather than accepts such a false belief - that they should be denied support from the Church?  Questioning a belief is not neccessarily the same thing as rejecting a belief - but your bromide seems to be even condemning questioning or reasoning about beliefs to reach an answer-this is why many seem to think the SDA Church is a cult.

I guess it is true that you are advocating for Souls to be "bought" - and that you are admitting that the SDA Church represents a cadre of pastors and ministers - many of whom whose souls are bought and this is why they profess the 27 SDA Fundamental beliefs.

Surely - if a expoused belief within the SDA Church is wrong - it deserves to be questioned rather than accepted - this is what the Bible would call one to do.  You are asking people to be cultic and dogmatic and even unbiblical and wrong.

I'm convinced that hte SDA's beliefs on 1844 are wrong.  The Question is should even believing and godly pastors take salaries from the SDA Church - it would seem to point to ungodliness that many do to the extent that they do.  There is very little biblical support or early church example of the SDA Church's current bureaucratic administrative structure.  The World SDA Church structure is quite comfortable with persons professing the 27 fundamental beliefs who are lewd, promiscuous, dishonest, and just all around not good persons.  This World Church also is quite comfortable with a political conservatism that promotes unlawful workplace discrimination - and they've equated this political religion to their own religion.

[Bob Pickle]

I'm convinced that hte SDA's beliefs on 1844 are wrong.

In what way are Adventist beliefs about 1844 wrong? Please be specific, giving biblical reasons, citing chapter and verse, and explaining the Greek and Hebrew where necessary.

After much biblical and chronological study, I think there is no possibility that (a) the 2300 days didn't end in 1844, and (b) the investigative judgment did not commence that year.

[Johann]

I'm convinced that hte SDA's beliefs on 1844 are wrong.

In what way are Adventist beliefs about 1844 wrong? Please be specific, giving biblical reasons, citing chapter and verse, and explaining the Greek and Hebrew where necessary.

After much biblical and chronological study, I think there is no possibility that (a) the 2300 days didn't end in 1844, and (b) the investigative judgment did not commence that year.

 

[Artiste]

I agree, Johann and Bob!

[Bob Pickle]

I certainly don't mind discussing 1844 or any other of our doctrines with anyone. It will be interesting to see if Jise is willing to discuss it.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

He obviously was not interested in engaging the 1844 issue...just another apostate wolf in SHEEP'S CLOTHING...or is he a sheep in WOLF's clothing?

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter