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Author Topic: Is Adventism lax on proper Church Discipline? Bill Knott's current article  (Read 21808 times)

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Bob Pickle

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The GC Vice President who's house dropped in value around $100,000 and who took out approximately 100% financing according to public records, hails from originally from an adventist conference wherein the country likes to think of itself as a "christian" nation.  But according to Deuteronomy - is this really true?  Like the US, the country is not a loaner, but has been a borrower, borrowing from the US and monetary institutions.  According to Deuteronomy, this is not the mark of a blessed, Godly nation. 

I fail to see anything you've said regarding the alleged VP that is something to condemn. There are a lot of people right now who have houses that have dropped in value. And in some places where the market was ridiculously high, some homes have dropped quite a bit.

Were you able to find an adequate house adequately close to Silver Springs, MD, that you felt that VP should have bought instead?

Or, did you think that that VP should have already had more in savings in the bank so he could have used less financing? If so, did you inquire as to why he had so little in savings? Had he given too much to the Lord's cause, and this was the problem?

I am not a fan for huge homes and large mortgages. But before considering condemning another, I would want to ask such questions as these.

Jise, I would like your comments on the following:

I would like to know, Jise, how you feel about Samuel Koranteng-Pipim's stance on creation and against evolution: Do you believe that Pipim has taken the right stance? Do you support Pipim's exposing who among us have been promoting evolution?
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Jise

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Not only has the adventist Church - issued false and unbiblical teachings on the subject of dancing in worship, and it being the only remnant church, they've also issued false doctrine on Ellen White.  Ellen White is not the spirit of Prophecy that the Bible is referring to- the bible does not mention Ellen White.

I knew that there was something wrong with the Church when I met Adventists who would have you think that "concealed" fornication is biblical, defrauding is biblical, and slandering others is Biblical and tolerating fornicators, dishonest slanderers and revilers within their ranks is biblical.  There is nothing biblical about the non-congregational structure of this Church and about the peculiar fellowship of this Church which has been made impure with a laxity on proper church discipline.

Additionally, there is one writer in Adventist World - I wonder if he is encouraging Christians to have a tolerance for existing within the Church with some that are reknown for their tolerance of sexual debauchery, etc. in their lands - this is celebrated as "diversity", whilst these same authors seem to have an aversion to principles of equity and humanity.  

I have a bible with biblical commentary - and the Bible specifically speaks against the Israelites mixing with certain "nations" that are reknown for their sexual immorality and their debauchery - but the Adventist Church seems to celebrate this kind of mixing and even use these peoples as the standard for christianity and Godliness.  How can a nation be a Christian nation, if it is indebted to the World bank, if it is Deeply in debt to foreignors - this can't be so according to Deuteronomy, even if said nation calls themselves a "christian" nation - it most certainly is not a Godly or blessed nation.  How can a nation for which sexual immorality is a way of life that is accepted be a Godly nation?  I'm not only talking about nations indebted to the World Bank, but this also includes the US to which many look up to - especially the "bad" values of the USA in terms of sexual immorality, etc.   In the May issue of Adventist WOrld, the notion of Godliness and Church being local was denigrated and Criticized - but this local nature of Church as it concerned Israel was celebrated in the Bible and favored over Israel mixing with foreign lands that were known for their tolerance of sexual sin and other type of immorality.  The Adventist World seems to be celebrating this kind of mixing and the Adventist Church is becoming reknown as the place where you come where you want to find an acceptance of all matter of moral compromise, sexual immorality, exploitation, and celebration and tolerance for this.  People are confident in the Adventist Church because of the American affiliation of the Church, the wealth of the Church and this Church's affiliation with the immoral conservative political paradigm here.  What's precious about other Churhches is the local nature of these churches and that they are not sullied by this mixing with peoples who have quite a tolerance for slander, sexual immorality, etc.

Ellen White's word is not the Spirit of Prophecy- the Adventist CHurch is encouraging everyone to accept everything that Ellen White wrote as Gospel, even her writings where she advocated for unbiblical principles and where in she even advocated for racism.  Additionally, the word "Adventist" is no where mentioned in the bible - it is not a biblical word - so I also think the current push to be "proud of being an Adventist" and not to be afraid of mentioning the word "adventist" is also unbiblical for its focus on denominationalism and the word "adventist".  Of course some who support this approach, wish to celebrate what makes Adventists allegedly distinct from all other denominations, but these same people choose to ignore that the "adventists" are seminally wrong on doctrine concerning the question of who is the remnant and the spirit of prophecy, and even the biblical nature of the name "adventist."  
 
The Adventist Church is basically equated to Adventist Pastors fomenting genocide in Rwanda and the Congo - this is what this Church has come to represent and this seems to be the cultivated ethos of this Church.  Why even some of these Adventist Pastors involved in the Rwandan Genocide did not have a problem with violation of innocent women and rape of these women - and it is this nature of the Adventist Church that makes this Church a lesser Church in many respects than the Churches I've known growing up.

Even some of the Adventist "conservatives" would not be willing to admit that many of the nations who are indebted to the world bank are not "Godly" nations, and this is stated so in Deuteronomy.  Some Adventists are "conservative" by choice because they agree with Conservative politics and in fact, because they support sexual immorality with regards to certain ethnic groups of women - and they support a stance that biblical norms and societal norms of decency don't apply to them and certain ethnic groups.  Their obsession with the liberal-conservative paradigm shows how wordly they are- in fact, many Adventist conservatives are quite theologically liberal in the bad not good sense. They've distorted biblical doctrine to endorse all manner of the transgressing of societal norms of decency and biblical norms of decency.

 
I also think   that there is an ungodly divisiveness within the Adventist Church that is targetted to other matters is certainly not Godly - and is quite prevalent in the Adventist Church but not in many local churches.  I've found too many people who are Adventists who like to spread lies and innuendos and falsehoods about others and do so under the cloak of the fact that the persons they are defending have perpetrated unbiblical behaviors where there is no accountability.

I'm shocked that Adventists can pontificate and even smear persons in situations where there is unashamedly no accountability but accusations made without verification and with reliance on malicious witnesses , many of whom hail from lands where sexual immorality and exploitation of women are applauded and taken lightly.  The bible does not celebrate fellowshippiing with lands of peoples for which sexual immorality is taken lightly but the Adventist Church seems to celebrate this.
The Adventist church celebrates this because some forms of American conservatism take sexual immorality and exploitation of women lightly. This draws others who share these moral values.

Another thing about why I knew there is something wrong with Adventist Conservatives  - is that they have a problem with feminism, but don't list sexism or patriarchy as part of the problem - which is dishonest.  I certainly thnk that a dose of feminism is needed to counteract the lies of Adventists who support sexual immorality, and fornication and exploitation of women.

Feminism is not even defined by these Adventist Conservatives - all feminists do not have a set of shared beliefs - and some feminists do good work, such as correcting the distortions that certain societies have perpetuated about certain ethnic groups of women - may be this explains why many Adventists are against feminism.  What you will find is that the Adventists who are against "feminism" are the same ones who support sexual immorality, and dishonest and sexist and tribalist stereotyping of certain ethnic groups of women.  These Adventist "conservative" opponents of feminism have a problem with  the "leftist" doctrine- whcih says that simply because you are a woman of a certain ethnic group, does not mean that you per se do not have value, are a commodity, and deserve to be mistreated even in violation of biblical norms.  If you provoke and probe, you will find that many Adventist Conservatives support sexual immorality, dishonesty, and exploitation of women.

I've just come to the conclusion that soem of the Adventist "leaders" who support sexual immorality, etc. are simply low class - especially in comparison to persons in many of the other church denominations that I know of..  It takes a low class person to defend a sexually immoral adventist and to violate notions of purity in this regard in their perpetuation of slander.  This is unheard of of many "local" oriented churches.  A church is a problem when it has more peoples that are akin to the peoples in the bible God forbid the Israelites to mix with.  There is a problem when there are too few Israelites in the Church that the Israelites have so little in common with the people, and instead the Church is populated with peoples for which sexual immorality, and fornication, dishonesty, and exploitation and are accepted, celebrated and taken lightly.  When I think of a Godly person or a Christian - I don't think of an Adventist Pastor who supports Sexual immorality or has been implicated in some Rwandan genocide.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 11:23:59 AM by Jise »
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Jise

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I'm thinking of  Adventist self ascribed "leaders" who celebrate  fraud and slander.  A real christian man and woman does not reach or rush to judgement to support fornication, dishonesty and lies, and to reach judgement on the behalf of such a person, when this person was not even there when this person was doing these things.

The Adventist Church is not like many other Church denominations I know of - it is devoid of a certain level of class and morality.

Suddenly, fornication is ok if it is done by a certain gender and a certain ethnic group. "Stealing" is ok.  That which was baited through lies and trickery is portrayed by wicked Adventists as honestly won and won by fair play and an accurate portrayal of a person operating from not from a lack of information but fully informed.  Ellen G. White and other Adventist writers, the bible, and Christians of other denominations all have talked about the need for accountability - but when you come across some Adventist Conservatives - all manner of violation of societal and biblical norms of decency is permissible and defensible as look as it is done by certain ethnic groups against others - i.e. no wonder the Adventist Church is fameous for its participation in the Rwandan Genocide.

Another apt criticism of Adventism was from the United Church of Christ people although I don't agree with their trinity doctrine - they described to a t - how "medicine" and the traditional European medical establishment is made into a "god" - a medical field based on pagan roots and for which treatment is based often unnecessary surgeries and pharmaceuticals - Adventists would have you believe that good health is dependent upon their hospitals rather than within the control of someone through preventative health.  Another criticism of Adventism is that it uses "idols" within it's worship, through inaccurate depiction of Jesus monolithically not as he actually phenotypically was.  The commandments specifically forbid idol worship.

 I think the other Church denominations I know of are qualitatively different from the Adventist Church because most of the  leaders who filled these churches were financially responsible as evidenced by their lack of indebtedness.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 04:42:31 PM by Jise »
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Bob Pickle

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Jise,

Could you please stick to a few points at a time, and be more specific and less rambling.

For the third, I would like to ask you the following:

I would like to know, Jise, how you feel about Samuel Koranteng-Pipim's stance on creation and against evolution: Do you believe that Pipim has taken the right stance? Do you support Pipim's exposing who among us have been promoting evolution?

Lastly, you stated above:

Not only has the adventist Church - issued false and unbiblical teachings on the subject of dancing in worship, and it being the only remnant church, they've also issued false doctrine on Ellen White.  Ellen White is not the spirit of Prophecy that the Bible is referring to- the bible does not mention Ellen White.

Could you please explain yourself:

  • Does a true prophet have the Spirit of Prophecy, according to the Bible?
  • Does the Bible predict that the gift of prophecy would be manifested in the last days?
  • Does the Bible teach that the remnant would keep God's commandments and have the spirit of prophecy?

If not, please explain why not.

Lastly:

Ellen White's word is not the Spirit of Prophecy- the Adventist CHurch is encouraging everyone to accept everything that Ellen White wrote as Gospel, even her writings where she advocated for unbiblical principles and where in she even advocated for racism.

Could you please quote where Ellen White advocated for racism? And while you're at it, could you please quote where Scripture says it is all right to ignore divine messages that God sends to His people via the Holy Spirit?
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tinka

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Bob,
your business to do as u see but don't think I would parley with a devil's "uneducated" (by the SPIRIT of truth) to the devil's advocate. This is clearly off the wall reasoning by Jise. Something that is inspired by hatred. Clearly there is more and more the devil is devouring in the camp. Yes, that is plain to see. we already know that few SDA will make the gate and this is sure reasoing why. If of course you believe SOP. Of which so far has been totally on line of last message warning. Now you see it plain and simple with what has gone down here. I have also seen corruption first hand (probably worse then Jise can imagine) but can't mingle it with the truth of message Biblical or EGW. Even sounds as if Jise is part of the SDA REformers off shoot. lol no one told anyone there would be 2 SDA branches. and they don't get it either.
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princessdi

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I agree, Tinka, there is more than meets to eye with this story.  lots of anger, even rage.  I am not s ure we will ever get a straight answer to questions, just disconnected bits and pieces.
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It is the duty of every cultured man or woman to read sympathetically the scriptures of the world.  If we are to respect others' religions as we would have them respect our own, a friendly study of the world's religions is a sacred duty. - Mohandas K. Gandhi
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