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[Habanero]

I would respect that if you were doing something or at least saying something regarding what 3ABN and Danny have done, and are doing, that made more sense or at least showed a more sensible path to take. Attacking Bob and Gailon for their tactics is no more sensible or productive in accomplishing anything in the 3ABN/DS mess than the worst of the tactics they are doing because the only thing you do here is attack them for their tactics when you have completely failed to show us any tactics that would work better. Again, you are simply attacking people's methods without doing anything yourself. I respect them for at least doing something. you have done nothing that I know of.

[GRAT]

Bonnie - what has Bob ever done to make you think that he is doing this just to have a few minutes of fame?  That just makes no sense at all.  This can't be easy and must take up an enormous amount of time, but you keep bringing up the fame thing.  Most people in my church don't even know the lawsuits exist and wouldn't recognize either name.  Maybe some national attention would wake people up to what happened or is still happening at 3ABN.  The GC certainly closed their collective eyes to what happened.

[bonnie]

I would respect that if you were doing something or at least saying something regarding what 3ABN and Danny have done, and are doing, that made more sense or at least showed a more sensible path to take. Attacking Bob and Gailon for their tactics is no more sensible or productive in accomplishing anything in the 3ABN/DS mess than the worst of the tactics they are doing because the only thing you do here is attack them for their tactics when you have completely failed to show us any tactics that would work better. Again, you are simply attacking people's methods without doing anything yourself. I respect them for at least doing something. you have done nothing that I know of.

What would you think they should do now?  What are they doing? Other than I am sure hoping to drop the lawsuit?
Sometimes the legal route is the only one left and if that is no longer feasible you have done your best.

We were fortunate in that one of the best attorney's in the state saw in my son's case a chance to write new law. Had that failed,it would have been over. Simple as that. Even with that,many, many critized and found fault. The forums, the conference and many people other than my home church.

There are always going to be vulnerable people that are preyed on by predators of all kinds. The denomination as a whole wants nothing to do with correcting these same type of problems in their own ranks but will gleefully go after an independent like 3ABN.
Correcting much of this at the core would do far more than all the calling the National Enquirer. However that is far to much work, and very little glory or minutes of fame

What does Bob have to gain by fixating on TS. He is over as an issue unless he re-offends. DS did nothing illegal. But Bob's fixation on it does not reflect well on Duane Clem. I believe him without a doubt,but at this point several have commented and not favorably. I can't see much that Duane will gain thru Bob. Duane could become active in preventing the type of abuse he suffered at the hands of a pastor.

I am not sure but at the time it took place with Duane I don't even think it would have been considered a crime here. But there are places he can add his experience and help others.
Bob is not helping him. Bob wants something else as far as I am concerned.

Put the knowledge and experience to work in ways that do the most good.The National Enquirer is not it.

Bob could possibly have concern for the way his conference has operated. Bob could work as strenously for Polly's Place.
Both might want to expend some of that energy on their families

[bonnie]

Bonnie - what has Bob ever done to make you think that he is doing this just to have a few minutes of fame?  That just makes no sense at all.  This can't be easy and must take up an enormous amount of time, but you keep bringing up the fame thing.  Most people in my church don't even know the lawsuits exist and wouldn't recognize either name.  Maybe some national attention would wake people up to what happened or is still happening at 3ABN.  The GC certainly closed their collective eyes to what happened.

Because that is what I think it is. Enjoying the position he holds. Gailon without question enjoys the battle.

There is a difference between national attention focused on a serious issue legitimately and attention urged and directed by Bob.  Suggesting payment if you called one of the sleeziest paper out in print.

This focus on who broke the sabbath this week. Had that been anyone except someone with a tie to 3ABN the handwringing over someone not keeping the Sabbath correctly it would have never been an issue. I am sure there will be another announcement soon over another sabbath breaker.

Reading many things that bob and Gailon have posted. On a regular basis Gailon blasts any in his path not moving along with him. They are trash and have no value,routinely invoking God's wrath on any that do not march in lockstep to gailon. The worst of that is the agreement, even if it is silent that lets Gailon know it is fine to do that.

[bonnie]

Habanero,

I know what the following means to me, tell me what it means to you. 
Waiting for someone to be struck down and hopefully soon. This is a man I am thankful is not on my side

Frankly, I would hope the fools would repeat it every chance they get!!! Just how long will it take the Lord to strike them all down for their abomination???

Not long, I trust, as their is a work to be done and we should not be tied up with this follishness!!!



Added
Matthew 5:22


   

22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

It seems to me that gailon is very fond of using this word

[Habanero]

Again, it is easy to tell everyone else where they are wrong in how they are trying to get something done without actually doing anything one's self. No matter how much you can hurl at them for how they go about doing it, at least they are trying. They haven't just sat back and said that it can't be done and that the church is unchangeable and that nothing can be done that will change or accomplish anything, they jumped in with both feet to at least try effecting change where it is needed.

[Fran]

I am so thankful for Bob and Gailon!  I believe God chose each of them.  They have brought to the front so much that it is hard to believe that 3ABN and Danny were so blatantly out of God's will.

Danny & 3ABN now want to drop the suit long enough to squelch the IRS Reports!  He doesn't want anyone to see the financials.  That is what this is all about.  Yes, the financial wrong doings!  The only reason for this dismissal is to hide that info.  However, they still want the right to come back and resume the lawsuit after his financials have been sealed!

I read Walt's letter and was as disgusted as I was when he explained why Linda was gone.  Without a doubt, I believe Walt is just as guilty as Danny Shelton.  He is an accomplice to the wrong doing with the Trust Funds.  He know full well there were problems with trust funds.

He says the employee complaints were dropped.  What about their problems with the trust funds themselves?  Forget the employees!

Greed is the name of the game.  I believe Danny felt God would want him to have nicer things.  I feel Danny thought his wage were too low, he compensated it through skimming cash receipts, his books and eBay.  They also borrowed Trust Funds.  What if it was your trust funds that were borrowed. 

When people donated to 3ABN, did they mean to donate it to the personal income of Danny Shelton and Mollie Steenson, or did they mean for it to go to the operation of 3ABN?  I believe Danny took what he felt was justly his.  He was the one that could beg and get people to donate, so therefore he deserved a commission of the amount received.  I believe Danny has a higher opinion of himself than others do.

I believe he felt that the cash receipts were his.  Is that why the cash amounts changed once Danny and Mollie got their cuts before the cash got to finance?  I believe Danny feels entitled to greater income.  I wonder why he did not feel Linda should share in this extra money?  Instead of Linda, it was Mollie!  Did he have to bring Mollie in on his taking what was not his to make her as guilty as him, and therefore keep her quiet.

It is time to submit the 2007 IRS form 990's.  It will be revealing for sure.

The IRS has not notified me about the investigation being over.  Therefore, I still believe the investigation is not complete. 

[Chrissie]

It occurs to me that much of the unpleasantness on this forum would rapidly disappear if some members could stop trying to force repentance and restitution on others and just let the Holy Spirit do His job by Himself.

It seems to me that He is far more qualified then an inquisitor or self-righteous Pharisee  has ever been to do God's will.

Doesn't the bible say something about examining oneself first and that we will be judged as we judge others???

It depends on which portion of the Scripture you are reading. Jesus also told the parable of the Good Samaritan. It condemns the priest and the Levite for just passing by the victim by the roadside. Some of us witnessed a woman being thrown into a pit of untrue condemnations - vicious and unchristian judgment - and we felt it was our Christina duty to defend this defenseless woman. Only a vicious and unchristian Pharisee would judge such an action.

 

[Habanero]

Fran, it is easy for people to look at what they do, listen to the people who praise them for what they do, generate praise for what they do, decide to believe the praise that they have generated, and then believe that they have done so much more for God than other people, that God would want them to have more and take more. It is easy to feel reimbursed when taking what one feels they deserve, especially when they assume the mantle of divine authority, when masses of people, or even just a few, believe they they do have the mantle of divine authority.

[Habanero]

Even with that,many, many critized and found fault. The forums, the conference and many people other than my home church.

And here you are doing exactly that. You seem to have become what you are claiming to abhore.

[bonnie]

Danny & 3ABN now want to drop the suit long enough to squelch the IRS Reports!  He doesn't want anyone to see the financials.  That is what this is all about.  Yes, the financial wrong doings!  The only reason for this dismissal is to hide that info.  However, they still want the right to come back and resume the lawsuit after his financials have been sealed!

I read Walt's letter and was as disgusted as I was when he explained why Linda was gone.  Without a doubt, I believe Walt is just as guilty as Danny Shelton.  He is an accomplice to the wrong doing with the Trust Funds.  He know full well there were problems with trust funds.

Fran,
I undertand that. I am sure DS doesn't want his conduct and acts out there in a trial. I have never thought him innocent,but not entirely sure LS is either. That doesn't mean she shouldn't have been treated fairly in the divorce . She kind of lost me with the "trick playing with a pregnancy kit" If your marriage is in trouble and you are already accused of infidelity,you don't go rubbing his nose in it and call it game. Especially LS as she had to know the capabilities of the man she was dealing with.

He says the employee complaints were dropped.  What about their problems with the trust funds themselves?  Forget the employees!

If they were you cannot take on their problems. If there were illegal acts and the ones harmed will not pursue you can't do it for them

Greed is the name of the game.  I believe Danny felt God would want him to have nicer things.  I feel Danny thought his wage were too low, he compensated it through skimming cash receipts, his books and eBay.  They also borrowed Trust Funds.  What if it was your trust funds that were borrowed. 

If it were my trust fund I would be spitting mad. I would go after it ,But not ask you to go after it for me.
This is the reason I will not nor ever have donated to a ministry as this. I do not trust televagelists. I am not big on many of the org. the church has just for that reason. Personally I think ADRA does a great work,I am glad there are people that can support it,but I will find other area's for my personal help and money. Just as they needed to re-do a tennis court because of the sun wasn't it??

When people have acess to other people's money ,whether it be the government or the church, you can bet many are going to feel entitled


 

When people donated to 3ABN, did they mean to donate it to the personal income of Danny Shelton and Mollie Steenson, or did they mean for it to go to the operation of 3ABN?  I believe Danny took what he felt was justly his.  He was the one that could beg and get people to donate, so therefore he deserved a commission of the amount received.  I believe Danny has a higher opinion of himself than others do.

I don't argue with that. Most seem to end up with this God complex and feel themselves above the ordinary. I personally think DS has an ego that knows few boundries.

I believe he felt that the cash receipts were his.  Is that why the cash amounts changed once Danny and Mollie got their cuts before the cash got to finance?  I believe Danny feels entitled to greater income.  I wonder why he did not feel Linda should share in this extra money?  Instead of Linda, it was Mollie!  Did he have to bring Mollie in on his taking what was not his to make her as guilty as him, and therefore keep her quiet

It is time to submit the 2007 IRS form 990's.  It will be revealing for sure.

That may be. If that shows wrongdoing it certainly should. Why give a woman you are divorcing anymore than is necessary?

The IRS has not notified me about the investigation being over.  Therefore, I still believe the investigation is not complete. 

I am sure it is possible. Originally I had thought it probably was, altho not the way DS reported as in ,Not one infraction, apologizing, etc. That was nothing but poppycock. Time will tell on that I would think.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

It occurs to me that much of the unpleasantness on this forum would rapidly disappear if some members could stop trying to force repentance and restitution on others and just let the Holy Spirit do His job by Himself.

It seems to me that He is far more qualified then an inquisitor or self-righteous Pharisee  has ever been to do God's will.

Doesn't the bible say something about examining oneself first and that we will be judged as we judge others???

It depends on which portion of the Scripture you are reading. Jesus also told the parable of the Good Samaritan. It condemns the priest and the Levite for just passing by the victim by the roadside. Some of us witnessed a woman being thrown into a pit of untrue condemnations - vicious and unchristian judgment - and we felt it was our Christina duty to defend this defenseless woman. Only a vicious and unchristian Pharisee would judge such an action.

Agreed, Johann!

Do you really? I think far too many here jump on the bandwagon and agree without  really considering what they are agreeing with.

I don't believe anyone here would disagree with the principles expressed and taught in the parable of the good Samaritan. All should care for and help a victim as needed especially when they are not in our belief system.

But at the same time I don't recall the good Samaritan hunting down the perpetrator, the Priest, or the Levite, do you?

Nor do I recall Jesus chasing the Pharisees down and forcing repentance or restitution either, or beating them over the head with God's word, stalking and harassing them, and even publishing reports to shame and embarrass them...
I was thinking about this, it is true, some put themselves in the role of the Holy Spirit, and yet I also haven't heard of a inquisitor or self  righteous pharisee yet who could come close to filling that role or doing God's will. Our thoughts and our ways are not His...

It just makes me sick. I believe this kind of thinking and behavior is blasphemy. Just imagine the Holy Spirit using the Pickle Joy and Co. tactics..    badgering until the subject is worn down, that would be more like torture than wooing. Few things make me more angry than seeing God misrepresented. sigh.. 

I refuse to give into that but I do agree with the following:

"much of the unpleasantness on this forum would  rapidly disappear if some members could  just let the Holy Spirit do  His job by Himself..."

The Bible is one continuous report of miscreants and the results of sin in the camp. And it reveals that justice prevails!!! .

You, surmizer, have failed to have surmized the biblical issues!!! And when did your Hero, DANNY LEE SHELTON,  end his whispered reports of his former wife without the evidence to back his tall tales and to justify jettisoning the old grey mare and trade her for a new young filly? Did you ever wonder what those lies and innuendos cost her, financially and emotionally? And what should Danny Lee Shelton's reward be?
Biblical, I am sure!!!

It is sick indeed, that the face of Adventism is a man that has to lie, cheat and steal to get where he is!!!
What he deserves and what he has taken are clearly two different things.

So get use to the idea that Justice pursues in-equity until equity is brought back to balance. That is why the Goddess of Justice carries a scale. I wonder, would Danny Lee Shelton be found wanton in the scales of justice? I KNOW HE WOULD!!! I intend to tip the scales!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy