Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Gregory on August 16, 2008, 04:16:14 PM
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There has been talk in the past in regard to what some would call an embargo that has prohibited certain denominational officers and employeees from being seen on 3-ABN television programs. Without arguing whether or not such an embargo has issued the question now is: With the clearance of 3-ABN by the IRS will any such embargo be lifted?
I predict that within the next 12 months an increasing number of General Conference officers and employees will be seen on 3-ABN television. ANy such embargo, I suggest has been lifted by the clearance of 3-ABN by the IRS.
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Has 3ABN been cleared by the IRS?
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I think I missed the proof of "IRS clearance". A disappearing letter from a lawyer just doesn't cut it for me.
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I haven't heard it is over either.
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Thus far Duffy has not written any letters exonerating Danny regarding his divorce, or Tommy regarding all his alleged victims, or any of the other things.
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I see that no one has challenged me on my prediction.
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I see that no one has challenged me on my prediction.
I am quite sure they will kiss and makeup :thumbsup:
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Maybe not, but several have challenged the basis of your prediction. Why bother to challenge the walls when the foundation is in question?
I see that no one has challenged me on my prediction.
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Agreed, Snoopy, the critical pincipal of the prediction has been challenged.
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Has 3ABN been cleared by the IRS?
If so, I haven't seen any evidence.
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Has 3ABN been cleared by the IRS?
My experience with IRS covers classification, examination, group management, review, appeals, tax courts, district court in "all" the major for profits and a few of the varied "not for profits" Clear proof of final settlement of a tax examination is only through a reviewed report signed by an internal revenue agent and a letter over the signature of a District Director of Internal Revenue. Official proof is not by a letter outside the IRS so if you care to believe otherwise, go for it and be only thought a fool before you open your mouth
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Has 3ABN been cleared by the IRS?
If so, I haven't seen any evidence.
You may personally never see the evidence. But, within the next 12 months you will see as I have predicted.
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I only relied on solid proof for more than 50 years on tax matters without the aid of either a oujia board or crystal ball?
With that type of communication, I would see no need for 100,000 pages of copied documents needing to be returned on a criminally referred no-change case. I would humbly suggest holding same by the examiners as these threads are subject to being referred to the Inspection Service of the IRS which is not under the direction of the local District Director of Internal Revenue Service. If you are the informant in this matter, you may be of further service to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Washington, DC.
This is not a threat, a mere promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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There has been talk in the past in regard to what some would call an embargo that has prohibited certain denominational officers and employeees from being seen on 3-ABN television programs. Without arguing whether or not such an embargo has issued the question now is: With the clearance of 3-ABN by the IRS will any such embargo be lifted?
I predict that within the next 12 months an increasing number of General Conference officers and employees will be seen on 3-ABN television. ANy such embargo, I suggest has been lifted by the clearance of 3-ABN by the IRS.
If some leaders in our GC or whoever they are, have decided it won't look so bad to appear on 3abn now (for whatever reason they come up with) that is going to be their problem. And, it will be a problem. I think time will tell and spell what benefits they expect from that maneuver, what ever their reasons may be.
I personally quit going by words, looks and appearances a long time ago, like most of the church members I know. Means nothing to me, and it really means nothing to most sda's anymore either. Let them play those games with the people it matters too.
Good thing God is in charge in spite of mans games. That's all that matters to me.
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I see that no one has challenged me on my prediction.
I will be happy to challenge you:
1) There has never been an EMBARGO: Some Officers of the General Conference have elected to not attend events at 3ABN or to decline invitations, but that is more directly related to the 2005 General Conference Session and some "political" shenanigans that went on that directly involved 3ABN, Danny Lee Shelton, Garwin McNeilus and a few others. Only one officer has indicated that as a result of events in 2004 he has elected to not accept further invitations. The point is there has never been a formal statement made by General conference or by fall or spring counsels at any level.
2) The issues that concerned General Conference Offcials was directly related to Danny Lee Shelton and if he is "contained" then it is likely you will see more and more officers of Conferences, Unions, Divisions and even the General Conference as the perception that governance is under control. However, if we see a predicted re-emergence of Danny Lee Shelton then I predict the opposite to be true.
3) Information I have coming from various officers, no-one at those levels has been duped into believing 3ABN has been Exonerated and Danny Lee Shelton have been exonerated. Too many knew of the issues and the allegations and too many had spoken to many, many others, 3ABN directors and others, that admitted there were potential issues.
4) Now, lets look at the future and realize that we now have a former conference treasurer as the new CFO and we have a retired NAD president as the president of 3ABN and there will be a steady flow of hires that have roots in the regular lines that should bring regularity and accountability. Therefore, the future looks bright and the directors have only one remaining hot potatoe to work out and that relates to Governance and its Succession. If the directorate revolts against some form of affiliation that brings a constituency and accountability then we will see continued strife. If they indeed adopt an affiliation that includes a constituency and a constitution that evaporates the current "privately held" status but instead brings a directorate that has real "oversight" powers then we will have a normal supporting ministry relationship.
Point is, the premise that the relationship with the GC has much to do with the financial allegations or the lawsiuit and whether anyone has been exonerated is a fabulous fabrication. THe issues with the GC predate even the 2005 GC and in fact really run the entire history from inception. They have not been blind to what goes on in Thompsonville and looked carefully at the 3ABN concept as it was being developed, including having had access to a report from an ASI president back then that I am told gave a pretty good background and personality profile. Then there was the BJ Christiansen report and on we could go for the twenty plus years with reports coming from various assets that have provided a view from the iside as well as the outside.
I would note that It IS Written still broadcasts, as does Amazing Facts and a handful of other GC affiliated ministries. Any official Embargo would most certainly have included IT IS WRITTEN.
That is the view from the bunker.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Why did Gregory suggest there was an embargo? That is a rather official-sounding word to use.
When the GC was queried on this matter last year when the alleged communication with the Pacific Union Divison came to light, the PR rep said in an e-mail that there was no change in status of the 3ABN ministry with the GC.
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Why did Gregory suggest there was an embargo? That is a rather official-sounding word to use.
When the GC was queried on this matter last year when the alleged communication with the Pacific Union Divison came to light, the PR rep said in an e-mail that there was no change in status of the 3ABN ministry with the GC.
My comment was intended to comment on a popular belief among some that there has been what I decided to call an embargo. I thought it was a nice one-word summation of what was believed to have happened.
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The thread title leaves the impression that an "embargo" was fact.
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The thread title leaves the impression that an "embargo" was fact.
The flurry of activity a little over a year ago was a roller coaster of declarations and restatements. I am not sure we ever were able to determine what the final status of the GC towards 3abn was. I think there might still be the impression that there was an embargo against GC participation at 3abn.
To help clarify, if at all possible, I ran over to BlackSDA.com's 3abn thread to pull out whatever related material I could find and am posting it here for review:
Posted on June 4, 2007 by SSOM: (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13733&view=findpost&p=198210)
I just received this email.
"-------Original Message-------
From: Denis Hankinson
Date: 06/01/07 00:07:37
Subject: Updates from SPD Administrators' Council and Institute of Public Evangelism Committees
Greetings
Just a quick update on the recent meetings I attended.
Division Administrators -
Update on 3ABN (bold emphasis mine)
The General Conference has suspended 3ABN Supportive Ministry status until some well known issues in more than one area are sorted out. Basically, a lot of smoke doesn't necessarily presume a fire, but it definitely needs investigation and caution.
(edited rest of content in email not relating to this item)
Kind regards
Denis
Dr Denis Hankinson
President - Seventh-day Adventist Church (Victoria)
"
This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Jun 4 2007, 09:39 AM
Posted on June 5, 2007 by Watchbird: (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13733&view=findpost&p=198395)
Getting back to the opening post and questions of verification.....
QUOTE(Observer @ Jun 4 2007, 01:50 PM) [snapback]198231[/snapback]
A number of us have been told that there is something along this line going on. But, we have not said anything because we were not able to verify it.
One question in my mind is: Is this an action of the General Conference, or of the South Pacific Division?
The bottom line is that now that this comment has been published, I can go back to people, ask for verification or comment, and tell them that I will publish thier comment.
I intend to seek comment from more than one source. I will keep you informed.
On a technicality: An action by a Division is an action by the General Conference for that Division. As organized, Divisions are sections of the General Conference, and are not seperate from the General Conference, as are Unions.
I have now seen emails from persons of rank in various levels in the South Pacific Division which confirm the authenticity and legitimacy of the letter posted here. I do not have permission to give their names or to directly quote their letters, but I will say that they are from church leaders in that area, and do make it clear that the directive comes from the GC, with the action being taken by the Division.
I also have word from within the NAD that the same directive and action is being taken in NAD, and this is in process of being communicated to all Conference levels in the NAD, who will then communicate with their pastors. This has been further clarified as having to do with programming... that is to say that church leaders are now banned from doing any new appearances or programming on 3abn or in their studios. It does not extend to re-runs of previously made programming. It will eventually reach down to include other church employees such as pastors.
And no... I cannot reveal the source of my information.
And btw... I cannot identify with those who are reporting such "mixed emotions" over this action. I have identified much too strongly with the victims... and those who live in fear of becoming victimized... I have for too long prayed the prayer of the "souls under the altar", "How long, O Lord, How long?!" to have any emotions over these recent actions other than a fervent, "Thank God
Posted on June 6, 2007 by Whtz Happenin:/url]
(http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13733&view=findpost&p=198664)This was included in the ATNewsbreak that just arrived tonight via email.
QUOTE
ADVENTIST NEWS Round up
By Ervin Taylor, AToday.com (05 June 2007).
A report dated June 1, 2007 from the South Pacific Division Administrators' Council and Institute of Public Evangelism Committee contained the following statement "The General Conference has suspended 3ABN's [Three Angels Broadcasting Network] Supportive Ministry status until some well known issues in more than one area are sorted out. Basically, a lot of smoke doesn't necessarily presume a fire, but it definitely needs investigation and caution." The report in which these statements were contained was signed by Dr. Denis Hankinson, President of the Victorian Conference in the Australian Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.
A request for additional information from the General Conference of SDA resulted in the following statement communicated to Adventist Today by John Torres, Media Relations Coordinator, Communications Department: "There has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists." The statement also stated that Rajmund Dabrowski, General Conference Communications Director, should be contacted for further information.
Requests for additional information and details concerning this reported suspension were made by e-mail to Dr. Hankinson, Danny Shelton, current president of 3ABN and Dr. Walter Thompson, chairman of the 3ABN Board of Directors.
Dr. Thompson responded to the Adventist Today request for comment by stating that "If the statement [from the South Pacific Division] is true, we [at 3ABN] have had no such communication."
Now that clears everything up
This post has been edited by Whtz Happenin: Jun 6 2007, 07:49 PM
Posted on June 6, 2007 by Observer: (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13733&view=findpost&p=198536)
Gentlepeople:
I have recieved the following comment in regard to the published statement by Elder Hankinson in reference to a suspension of "supporting ministry" status of 3-ABN:
QUOTE
Dear Brother Gregory
Sorry for a delay. I arrived Tuesday night in Moscow and am answering the eMails now.
In response - all I can say is that there has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.
Blessings.
--Rajmund Dabrowski
Communication Director
Seventh-day Adventist Church
World Headquarters
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring MD 20904 USA
<www.adventist.org>
Phone: 301-680-6300
Fax: 301-680-6312
e-mail: dabrowskir@gc.adventist.org
In my question to Elder Dabrowski, I informed him that I would publish his response to me, exactly as he responded, without editorial revision. In keeping with my statement to him, I am posting his entire respose to me exactly as he sent it.
The question may now be asked as to how his response is consistent with the response made to me by an individual who previously responded to me, and requested that he not be identified. My answer to that is that I do not believe that they are inconsitent to any great degree.
My advice to all is as I have stated earlier: This situation is developing. No one can predict with certainty exactlly how it will develop. Therefore, we must simply wait and see.
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Gregory Matthews posts here under the name "Observer."
Posted on June 7, 2008 by Observer: (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13733&view=findpost&p=198809)
This afternoon I recieved a second message from Elder Dabrowski. As I had informed him that I would publish his response to me, exactly as he sent it, and without editorial revision, I so post it here, in full, exactly as I have recieved it.
QUOTE
Dear Brother Matthews
Thank you for your enquiry which I received while traveling in another part of the world. I am still on the road. In reference to your communication, and a comment you are quoting from the Internet chat forums, may I share with you the following:
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists has received a number of inquiries into the status of Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) as a supporting ministry of the Church. There has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Due to ongoing administrative issues at 3ABN, the General Conference administration has taken a position that until these matters have been addressed that the General Conference personnel not involve 3ABN for new program development and production. This approach does not reflect that the General Conference is taking any particular position in issues which are under the purview of the Board of Directors of 3ABN, which is an independent supporting ministry. The GC's position applies to General Conference personnel.
Blessings.
--Rajmund Dabrowski
Communication Director
Seventh-day Adventist Church
World Headquarters
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring MD 20904 USA
<www.adventist.org>
Phone: 301-680-6300
Fax: 301-680-6312
e-mail: dabrowskir@gc.adventist.org
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Gregory Matthews posts here under the name "Observer."
Posted on August 4, 2008 by Watchbird: (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14629)
Following the announcement about the AF - 3ABN merger being "off", which we have already seen, Adventist Today On-line has this statement from the North New Zealand Conference. Once again a South Pacific Division Conference has given us the first look at a new phase of action regarding 3ABN. Our thanks to the New Zealand Conference.
ADVENTIST NEWS Round up
Posted August 3rd, 2007 by Linda Greer
in Latest Stories
North New Zealand Conference Says that the General Conference has taken action that the SDA Denomination Will No Longer Accept Donations Received For 3ABN
Ervin Taylor, August 3, 2007
Adventist Today has received a copy of the North New Zealand Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, The Bulletin, dated 4 August 2007.
Under a heading of “Important Notice” and “3ABN,” there is this statement:
“[F]ollowing advice received from the South Pacific Division and the General Conference we wish to share the following information with members regarding 3ABN.
3ABN is a privately owned and operated company.
3ABN is not denominationally owned, controlled or operated.
3ABN is not registered by the denomination as a supporting ministry.
Serious legal allegations have been made involving the 3ABN organization which have yet to be resolved.
The General Conference and the South Pacific Division has therefore taken action that the denomination will no longer process and/or accept donations received for 3ABN. Therefore any funds received at the local church after 31st August 2007 . . . must be returned to the donor, and any funds received at the conference office after 20th September will be returned to the source from which they were received.”
In an effort to clarify the statement that “3ABN is not registered by the denomination as a supporting ministry,” Adventist Today contacted Rajmund Dabrowski, General Conference Communication Director by email. Mr. Dabrowski quickly replied to the Adventist Today inquiry. He stated: “I am not aware of any list of supporting ministries that are registered with the General Conference or North-American Division. The closest to such a potential listing is the ASI membership roster which by its nature requires that to join indicates an organization to be supportive of the church. We understand that 3ABN is a current member of ASI. As stated previously, there has been no change or review of the status of 3ABN as a supporting ministry by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.”
Also once again there seems to be the same different use of "registered by the denomination as a supporting ministry" that we saw in a previous letter from an Australian Conference official. What is interesting to me is that this seems to be the only point that Dabrowski challenged from the New Zealand publication, The Bulletin, for it hardly seems possible that this would be the only part of the statement upon which Adventist Today would have queried Dabrowski.
This post has been edited by watchbird: Aug 4 2007, 12:45 AM
Now any interested parties may review and come to their own conclusions.
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GN: There is a pretty clear reason for some people saying that there had been an embargo. YEs, people can argue that pont, so let all make theri one decision.
In any case, over the next 12 months more GC personnel will be seen on 3-ABN./
I predict that.
GM
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In any case, over the next 12 months more GC personnel will be seen on 3-ABN./
GM
I agree. 3ABN has an enormous audience to which they can speak, much bigger than their own. Also, IMO, Jim Gilley's position there makes it more palatable.
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GN: There is a pretty clear reason for some people saying that there had been an embargo. YEs, people can argue that pont, so let all make theri one decision.
In any case, over the next 12 months more GC personnel will be seen on 3-ABN./
I predict that.
GM
GM, yes, I agree. The words of Rajmund Dabrowski posted by you on June 7, 2007 are quite clear:
"Due to ongoing administrative issues at 3ABN, the General Conference administration has taken a position that until these matters have been addressed that the General Conference personnel not involve 3ABN for new program development and production."
I also agree with you that calling the GC position an embargo is consistant with this statement.
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GN: There is a pretty clear reason for some people saying that there had been an embargo. Yes, people can argue that point, so let all make their one decision.
In any case, over the next 12 months more GC personnel will be seen on 3-ABN.
I predict that.
GM
Dear MG Prophet;
Your alleged prophecy is a bit late. You really need to watch more 3ABN before you make such alleged prophecies spoken with such great authority! Your alleged prophecy has all ready been fulfilled! This must have happened while you were alleged working on your alleged embargo personal statement, because more from the GC have already alleged been on 3ABN.
The alleged GC “up-yuk-mucks” like Jim Gilley. He is allegedly one of them!
Supposedly, “some think” his “coming” allegedly erased all the alleged adultery, alleged financial dealings, the alleged house gain that was made legal, alleged $20,000 horses coming and going, and alleged pedophiles were dismissed as if nothing happened. . My goodness, allegedly even the IRS is supposedly singing praises to Danny Shelton and 3ABN, however, those that should also be hearing, have not heard. (?). Maybe we should all stand and sing the doxology!
Are we saying that no one cares that a member of the Shelton family allegedly was selling 3ABN items on their personal eBay store and Tammy Shelton was getting the money? That is not right! The proceeds from those sales belonged to 3ABN, the alleged ministry.
Yeah, I hear you saying it all ready, “There goes Fran again. She never allegedly knows when to shut up! Her alleged low class, street talk makes her allegedly look really stupid. She is destroying her alleged credibility!”
Well, I will grant you those thoughts, because what you allegedly think of me is not important at all. I have no alleged credibility or alleged authority. I don’t come bearing alleged prophecies or alleged statements of authority using my alleged “collar” as my alleged “clout”. I have no alleged influence to protect. I am just an alleged realist.
The alleged ”embargo” was a failure. In fact, the church has alleged failed. Their alleged “no action” was alleged “action” in reality. We can plainly see who alleged controls who and what!
What ASI Missions alleged wants is for 3ABN to be there for the ministries that are part of the alleged ASI Missions Inc.
Just this last weekend they had the “GC” and Maranatha alleged working hand in hand for alleged Adventist Missions.
Don’t take me wrong, Maranatha does a great work. However, who is actually in control? Who really makes the decisions?
I don’t believe the GC is allegedly in control. Maybe I am all wrong and you "are" allegedly in control?
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Well Alleged Fran,
The allegations that you allegedly alleged that the rumored allegations were allegedly nothing but allegations coincided with the alleged Pickle who came out of his allegation of a bottle in response to the allegedly named Jack in the alleged box, allegedly provjng that allegations alleged that you had an allegation alleged to be a stawberry malt.
Phewwww ;)
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You've outdone yourself, Fran!
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I don’t believe the GC is allegedly in control.
Are you implying that ASI is in control?
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:ROFL: Aaahhh Fran - it is GOOD to see you here!! :pals:
Dear MG Prophet;
Your alleged prophecy is a bit late. You really need to watch more 3ABN before you make such alleged prophecies spoken with such great authority! Your alleged prophecy has all ready been fulfilled! This must have happened while you were alleged working on your alleged embargo personal statement, because more from the GC have already alleged been on 3ABN.
The alleged GC “up-yuk-mucks” like Jim Gilley. He is allegedly one of them!
Supposedly, “some think” his “coming” allegedly erased all the alleged adultery, alleged financial dealings, the alleged house gain that was made legal, alleged $20,000 horses coming and going, and alleged pedophiles were dismissed as if nothing happened. . My goodness, allegedly even the IRS is supposedly singing praises to Danny Shelton and 3ABN, however, those that should also be hearing, have not heard. (?). Maybe we should all stand and sing the doxology!
Are we saying that no one cares that a member of the Shelton family allegedly was selling 3ABN items on their personal eBay store and Tammy Shelton was getting the money? That is not right! The proceeds from those sales belonged to 3ABN, the alleged ministry.
Yeah, I hear you saying it all ready, “There goes Fran again. She never allegedly knows when to shut up! Her alleged low class, street talk makes her allegedly look really stupid. She is destroying her alleged credibility!”
Well, I will grant you those thoughts, because what you allegedly think of me is not important at all. I have no alleged credibility or alleged authority. I don’t come bearing alleged prophecies or alleged statements of authority using my alleged “collar” as my alleged “clout”. I have no alleged influence to protect. I am just an alleged realist.
The alleged ”embargo” was a failure. In fact, the church has alleged failed. Their alleged “no action” was alleged “action” in reality. We can plainly see who alleged controls who and what!
What ASI Missions alleged wants is for 3ABN to be there for the ministries that are part of the alleged ASI Missions Inc.
Just this last weekend they had the “GC” and Maranatha alleged working hand in hand for alleged Adventist Missions.
Don’t take me wrong, Maranatha does a great work. However, who is actually in control? Who really makes the decisions?
I don’t believe the GC is allegedly in control. Maybe I am all wrong and you "are" allegedly in control?
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Naw! My street talk would say that ASI is nothing but an alleged "FRONT" for ASI Missions! You know, everyone needs an umbrella of alleged security. Who allegedly controls ASI Missions? Who allegedly controls 3ABN? He does very good work. He is allegedly a force to be contended with. If he is the one that got Danny off the screen and totally gone from 3ABN, I would say he is a very good man for that alone.
This person uses his manufacturing plant to prefab metal roofs for building a church in a day. The materials are sent and the building is put together. Then a team comes in and attaches the roof in one day. 1 day churches. This speeds the time it takes to build churches. It makes me sit up and wonder why this synergy was not delivered a long time ago! Maybe the manufacturing plant had to be built just for these productions. That takes time.
This is the greatest idea anyone has had in a long long time. The labor for the prefabs is covered by this man, Maranatha, and the GC (I hope). He makes sure the production is correct and works hand in hand with the GC to pick and choose who gets what when.
Hopefully this is done with excess capacity. However, I believe this person really believes in missions and people. I just personally believe he made a very bad mistake in believing in Danny Shelton.
In reality, I do not believe Jim and this person want this lawsuit. It makes them look really bad. Surely by now they know what has been happening? At least I hope that is the case!
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Is it possible that ASI Missions controls ASI and the GC? What about 3ABN?
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I seriously don't believe that is what the fine print says, but I believe there is more to that statement that what is written!
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Yeah, I hear you saying it all ready, “There goes Fran again. She never allegedly knows when to shut up! Her alleged low class, street talk makes her allegedly look really stupid. She is destroying her alleged credibility!”
Well, I will grant you those thoughts, because what you allegedly think of me is not important at all. I have no alleged credibility or alleged authority. I don’t come bearing alleged prophecies or alleged statements of authority using my alleged “collar” as my alleged “clout”. I have no alleged influence to protect. I am just an alleged realist.
Ah, Fran, I would never say such. I would look quite foolish if I did.
I am uncertain as to what prompted all of that. In any case, please take three deep breaths.
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Dear MG Prophet;
You are forgetting the most important ingredient as to why the boycott didn't work. You left out Jesus!
Whether you like it or not 3ABN-
1.Reaches more people than any ministry in SDA church history.
2.Was raised by God to help finish the work through the dissemination of the 3 Angels messages found in the 14th Chapter of Rev.
There are GC and NAD people that have been called of God to preach to the world. It only stands to reason that they should be preaching on the Network that reaches the most lost souls for Jesus as well as every other avenue reaching people.
Fran, you and Joy and Pickle and others are not big enough to stop the 3Angels messages from going to the world in his time and using the people of his choice to do it.
If it were left up to your "team" 3ABN would either be shut down or you all would run it. You can't accept the fact that God didn't call you to try to stop the gospel from going to the world through 3ABN, but I promise you He will continue to show all that are against using every avenue of spreading the 3 Angels messages to the world, that He will ultimately win out!
All the while these attacks against Danny and 3ABN have been coming from the devil through some of you.. People are still finding Jesus through the ministry of 3ABN. They have not quit proclaiming God's message to the world.
Has your side spent more time winning souls by proclaiming the message or has most of your time been spent on trying to bring down Danny, 3abn and those associated with it? The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
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Let me get this correctly. Black is Black and White is White OR is Black actually White or is White actually Black. I am confused! :scratch:
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Let me get this correctly. Black is Black and White is White OR is Black actually White or is White actually Black. I am confused! :scratch:
Just to help you get things straight,black is gray as in white is black and is actually gray. Then depending on who is looking gray can become black or white, depends on,sort of. Once in awhile it looks like it might become serious enough to have a bit of "red" splashed around
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Sam - Details are not important? Satan is the Godof details? ??? Seems to me that details are very important to God. We don't call the 10 commandments the 10 suggestions. They are very specific. God was very detailed in his instructions to the Isrealites. (capital G in the word god infers diety)
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Let me get this correctly. Black is Black and White is White OR is Black actually White or is White actually Black. I am confused! :scratch:
Just to help you get things straight,black is gray as in white is black and is actually gray. Then depending on who is looking gray can become black or white, depends on,sort of. Once in awhile it looks like it might become serious enough to have a bit of "red" splashed around
Bonnie,
And sometimes, gray is grey. ;)
SDAminister
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Yeah, I hear you saying it all ready, “There goes Fran again. She never allegedly knows when to shut up! Her alleged low class, street talk makes her allegedly look really stupid. She is destroying her alleged credibility!”
Well, I will grant you those thoughts, because what you allegedly think of me is not important at all. I have no alleged credibility or alleged authority. I don’t come bearing alleged prophecies or alleged statements of authority using my alleged “collar” as my alleged “clout”. I have no alleged influence to protect. I am just an alleged realist.
Ah, Fran, I would never say such. I would look quite foolish if I did.
I am uncertain as to what prompted all of that. In any case, please take three deep breaths.
I was breathing quite well when I posted. No, I was not ill. I was thinking quiet clearly at the time. I am so sorry what I said went over your head.
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Bonnie,
And sometimes, gray is grey. ;)
SDAminister
You wait till now to tell me. Thought I had this all worked out and you throw another color at me.
I am sticking with my black and white world. They know me there :rabbit:
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The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Response #1: Consider the fruit:
- On global TV, trashed Alyssa Moore's confidential statement regarding Danny's alleged sexual assault against her.
- Threatened Glenn Dryden in 2003 stating that even if Tommy did molest 6 boys, the statute of limitations had run out.
- Danny divorced Linda without biblical grounds, based on his own statement.
- Thus far, to my knowledge, Danny still had not disclosed all his income in his divorce proceedings.
- etc., etc.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
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The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Response #2: Jesus sent forth the 12. He sent forth the 70. They preached the gospel. Multitudes will be in the kingdom.
Judas was one of those who went and preached.
Jesus called Judas the son of perdition. Paul called the papacy the son of perdition in 2 Th. 2.
The pope claims to preach the gospel: "Romanism, claiming for her sovereign pontiff an inspiration descended in unbroken line from the apostles, and unchangeable through all time, gives ample opportunity for every species of extravagance and corruption to be concealed under the sanctity of the apostolic commission" (GC 193).
It appears to me that you are undermining 3ABN's mission and message by your heretical premise that just because someone is preaching the gospel and having results, that that means they are no longer can be called to account for their sins. If your premise were true, how could 3ABN continue to preach the 3rd angel's message and identify the beast power?
Works will never save!
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The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Response #3: You suggest that God is not the God of details?
Then why was Uzzah slain by God for having touched the ark?
Why were Nadab and Abihu slain by God for using the wrong kind of fire in the sanctuary?
Why were Ananias and Sapphira slain by God for not giving the full sales price?
More importantly, why did Moses record all the details regarding the sanctuary and its services, repeatedly saying that he had done all "that the Lord commanded Moses"? If Danny truly were like Moses, he would not have one problem at all with details, or with obeying God's every command, including 1 Jn. 1:9!
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The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Response #1: Consider the fruit:
- On global TV, trashed Alyssa Moore's confidential statement regarding Danny's alleged sexual assault against her.
Lie. Never was alyssa's name or Danny's name mentioned. Period. You cannot possibly read Shelley's mind to make this out as a statement of fact.
- Threatened Glenn Dryden in 2003 stating that even if Tommy did molest 6 boys, the statute of limitations had run out.
Lie. The statement was made (as a defensive statement) that even if something like that was true the statue of limitations had run out. Just an attorney citing the law not threatening or acting like "no big deal" as you try to spin it.
- Danny divorced Linda without biblical grounds, based on his own statement.
Lie as has been proven over and over by even some of your own defender's. Do you honestly think the board would have risk the repurcussions of firing Linda had they not seen the evidence of what was going on? What about all the other's that talked and counseled with Linda and came to the same conclusion. Do you honestly think the board would risk the fallout of Danny's remarriage if they didn't know for a fact he had grounds to remarry?
- Thus far, to my knowledge, Danny still had not disclosed all his income in his divorce proceedings.
The divorce proceedings were over years ago. I believe you are referring to the marital property case. To my knowledge all his income was disclosed while he was married to Linda. Any income after the divorce is a moot point since, by law, she isn't entitled to anything he made after the divorce. IMO with all the money she got from DS and all the money she got from 3abn, he should be fighting to get some of it back instead of her fighting for even more.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Exactly. On the one hand we still have 3abn bringing the gospel to the world 24/7 and on the other we have the Pickle and Joy team making allegations, spreading false rumors and twisting anything and everything (example above).
By their fruits ye shall know them.[/list]
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Dear MG Prophet; ...
You are forgetting the most important ingredient as to why the boycott didn't work. You left out Jesus!
Sam;
This is a LIE! I have never left Jesus out of anything!
Whether you like it or not 3ABN-:
1. Reaches more people than any ministry in SDA church history.
I do not believe this at all! What about VOP? What about it is written? What about Joe Crews? What about Amazing Facts? What about the Quiet Hour; John Carter; WhiteHorse Ministry, Maranatha, Share Him, PM Church, Faith for today, … All 3ABN has is air waves. Those belong to God!
Many of these ministries have won souls for Christ while broadcasting on TBN. God uses TBN’s airwaves, not the turkey and his wife that are bilking millions of $$$$ from Donors! Do we give glory to TBN for saving Souls? No we do not! Put credit where credit is due; Jesus is the Lord of the Harvest; not 3ABN, Danny Shelton or TBN!
Somebody has a big inflates ego here! People being reached are ones listening to the message of God through the preaching of the word through Seventh-day Adventist evangelists! Period. Granted 3ABN’s air waves were used, as was TBN’s. This is NOT a fruit of Danny Shelton!! [/quote]
2. Was raised by God to help finish the work through the dissemination of the 3 Angels messages found in the 14th Chapter of Rev.
Now, Sam, I will agree with this. God did it!
There are GC and NAD people that have been called of God to preach to the world. It only stands to reason that they should be preaching on the Network that reaches the most lost souls for Jesus as well as every other avenue reaching people.
Don’t forget about HOPE TV! God raised it also. I believe God needed an alternative source. God has done a really good job doing what he has done there. 3ABN is no better that TBN. 3ABN is not even a Seventh-day Adventist entity. In fact, 3ABN is not affiliated with any denomination! Do you think that is pleasing in the eye’s of God?
You make this out to be a race to see who can be the greatest! God’s plan will work as long as He can see 3ABN as an honest, accountable, transparent entity! God is watching! I am not needed.
Fran, you and Joy and Pickle and others are not big enough to stop the 3Angels messages from going to the world in his time and using the people of his choice to do it.
Sam;
I am sick and tired of your posts saying what my motives are. You have no clue! How many times will it take for me to get through to your thick skull that I have NEVER set out to Shut Down 3ABN? I set out to expose Danny Shelton and his family of financial irregularities.
What you are saying about my motives is a LIE. I have told you that more than once! I DO NOT WANT 3ABN SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!!! Knock off all your accusation about me and my motives! I am sick and tired of hearing your lies!
If it were left up to your "team" 3ABN would either be shut down or you all would run it.
Stop accusing me of being on any team! I figured out all of the FINANCIAL IRREGULATITIES because God put it in my lap! I was out there screaming at the top of my lungs long before Bob and Gailon came on to the scene. Stop putting me on a team! I acted alone, all by myself. So cut out your lies. The readers have heard from me on VOAR, Club Adventist, BSDA, Advent Talk, MSDAOL, and many others. I was at most all of them long before Bob or Gailon was!
I am also sick of you accusing Bob and Gailon of trying to ruin 3ABN! Put the dirty, fruity, stinky laundry right where it belongs! Right smack dab in Danny Shelton’s and 3ABN’s lap! It is this Bad Fruit that filed a lawsuit against their brothers.
Now, I challenge you to tell me they were following God’s instruction when they sued their Brothers in Christ! Maybe you can claim God was leading them when Danny refused to allow ASI to investigate certain allegations. That was not what Jesus would have done.
They are not producing documentation requested by the defendants. They are lying on affidavits. Is this of Christ?
Was Christ there when Walt wrote that awful announcement about Linda? Maybe Jesus was there blocking truth Sayers at the now famous board meeting. I am sure it was Jesus that stood and called them evil in front of the crowd there.
Jesus must have been the evil possessed one that accused Linda Shelton of Spiritual Adultery! Jesus must have possessed Brenda and threw her clothes around so Danny could do an exorcism! This self same Lady is now the biggest gossip in the USA/World! Surely you will tell me that was Jesus doing all that sick lying!
Of course it was Jesus that sent those emails to Linda laying out lies and fraud to her. It surely must have been Jesus performing a miracle when he turned $2,000 horses into $20,000 cash. It must have been just like it was when Jesus turned the water into wine!
I am sure you will agree that it was Jesus that filed that lawsuit against fellow church members!
Wake up folks. By their fruits they shall know them! Was all of this of Jesus? No indeed, it was not. Lay the blame for that right where it belongs; in the lap of Danny Shelton, Walt Thompson, Brenda Walsh, and the 3ABN Board. All of that was not of Jesus. NO WAY!
You can't accept the fact that God didn't call you to try to stop the gospel from going to the world through 3ABN, but I promise you He will continue to show all that are against using every avenue of spreading the 3 Angels messages to the world, that He will ultimately win out!
There you go again. I am becoming irate that you keep on accusing me of that. IT IS A LIE! IT IS NOT TRUE!
All the while these attacks against Danny and 3ABN have been coming from the devil through some of you.. People are still finding Jesus through the ministry of 3ABN. They have not quit proclaiming God's message to the world.
Oh, so now I am the devil. Take a look in the mirror Sam. You will be looking straight at the devil that is falsely accusing me and others of coming from the Devil. I came into this “In the Name of the Lord!”
Has your side spent more time winning souls by proclaiming the message or has most of your time been spent on trying to bring down Danny, 3ABN and those associated with it?
Answer that one for us Sam. You have really been busy posting all over the place spreading hate and discontent! Listen to Jesus and follow his plan. We are.
The bible says we shall know people by their fruits.
Amen! I have seen Danny Shelton’s fruit and some of 3ABN’s fruits. It is rotten! They keep stealing others thunder! They are saving NO ONE! The air waves are broadcasting the message of God that is winning souls. You are trying to steal the Harvest from the Lord.
You don't really know that DS/3ABN has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there.
I am not running in a circle! I have been right here all the time! It is Danny Shelton and 3ABN who are seeking whom they may devour! I hate to disappoint you, but I do have facts and documentation. In fact, you will be surprised what I do know!
Danny did do some very bad things!
While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them.
That is a Lie! Look at what you have been doing! You are out to ruin Gailon, Bob, and my reputation! You are seeking whom you may devour.
All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team.
Yes, you are blind and cannot see!
Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Oops, Sam;
Where is that doctrine found in the Bible? God is a God of details. He even wrote those details in stone! He is very particular. He wrote all the details out through his chosen messengers. Yes, as I read my Bible I see God is a God of details.
It is through the details that I discovered all that missing feedback attached to nan_don! There are other details I have that are NOT good fruit. Jesus was not there taking money from 3ABN! God is a God of details, because God led me right to those details. I have had them for years, just waiting. I can continue to wait until God is ready.
I was breathing quite well when I posted. No, I was not ill. I was thinking quiet clearly at the time. I am so sorry what I said went over your head.
That's a frightening thought.
I see my post went over your head too! Think about it for a while. You just might get it too.
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The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
Response #1: Consider the fruit:
- On global TV, trashed Alyssa Moore's confidential statement regarding Danny's alleged sexual assault against her.
Lie. Never was alyssa's name or Danny's name mentioned. Period. You cannot possibly read Shelley's mind to make this out as a statement of fact.
No, it's not a lie. I honestly believe that that is the truth, so there is no intent to deceive.
Secondly, unless you can explain to me where in the Bible or SoP it says that Herodias or Salome deceived anyone, you are simply wrong. Shelley said the unnamed daughter was caught in the web of deceit. What deceit is there in the Bible story?
Further, Shelley said the daughter wanted to save her mother's position. In what way was Herodias in danger of losing her position?
Did not Shelley say that the man of God who interfered in the sinful relationship had a ministry mending broken people?
Third, I do not recall accusing Shelley Quinn of intentionally calling Alyssa Moore a liar. How would I know if she wrote the script or not?
The rank hypocrisy of claiming that Danny mends broken people while calling an alleged victim of sexual assault a liar on global TV!
- Threatened Glenn Dryden in 2003 stating that even if Tommy did molest 6 boys, the statute of limitations had run out.
Lie. The statement was made (as a defensive statement) that even if something like that was true the statue of limitations had run out. Just an attorney citing the law not threatening or acting like "no big deal" as you try to spin it.
The legal rationale for suing Dryden that Riva gave in his nasty, reprehensible, unchristian letter (http://www.save-3abn.com/mike-riva-to-glenn-dryden-june-2003.htm) was that even if the actions did occur, the statute of limitations had run out. In what specific way are you accusing me of lying when I say that?
- Danny divorced Linda without biblical grounds, based on his own statement.
Lie as has been proven over and over by even some of your own defender's. Do you honestly think the board would have risk the repurcussions of firing Linda had they not seen the evidence of what was going on? What about all the other's that talked and counseled with Linda and came to the same conclusion. Do you honestly think the board would risk the fallout of Danny's remarriage if they didn't know for a fact he had grounds to remarry?
On July 17, 2004, Danny said (http://www.save-3abn.com/danny-shelton-demise-of-marriage-no-proof.htm), "... you will, if you have not already, end up in bed with him." See? I told the truth!
- Thus far, to my knowledge, Danny still had not disclosed all his income in his divorce proceedings.
The divorce proceedings were over years ago. I believe you are referring to the marital property case. To my knowledge all his income was disclosed while he was married to Linda. Any income after the divorce is a moot point since, by law, she isn't entitled to anything he made after the divorce. IMO with all the money she got from DS and all the money she got from 3abn, he should be fighting to get some of it back instead of her fighting for even more.
Does he not have to report the income he made from property still owned by both of them? You know, his books and such.
Show me where he has ever reported his royalties in his divorce proceedings (since Danny's lawyers used that terminology in the complaint, it should be fine), royalties earned from books and manuscripts published or written prior to their divorce.
If he is a Christian, he will finally do his duty and report what he is supposed to report. He'll stop playing all these nonsensical games.
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I misspoke. The complaint says "... a Family Court proceeding, which was initiated by Linda Shelton regarding division of marital assets ...." And "Danny Shelton perjured himself through the course of court proceedings relating to his divorce from Linda Shelton."
It doesn't say "divorce proceedings." It says "proceedings related to his divorce."
My apologies for the lack of precision! I had thought that "division of marital assets" could be and had been called "divorce proceedings." My mistake.
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You are forgetting the most important ingredient as to why the boycott didn't work. You left out Jesus!
Whether you like it or not 3ABN-
1.Reaches more people than any ministry in SDA church history.
2.Was raised by God to help finish the work through the dissemination of the 3 Angels messages found in the 14th Chapter of Rev.
There are GC and NAD people that have been called of God to preach to the world. It only stands to reason that they should be preaching on the Network that reaches the most lost souls for Jesus as well as every other avenue reaching people.
Fran, you and Joy and Pickle and others are not big enough to stop the 3Angels messages from going to the world in his time and using the people of his choice to do it.
If it were left up to your "team" 3ABN would either be shut down or you all would run it. You can't accept the fact that God didn't call you to try to stop the gospel from going to the world through 3ABN, but I promise you He will continue to show all that are against using every avenue of spreading the 3 Angels messages to the world, that He will ultimately win out!
All the while these attacks against Danny and 3ABN have been coming from the devil through some of you.. People are still finding Jesus through the ministry of 3ABN. They have not quit proclaiming God's message to the world.
Has your side spent more time winning souls by proclaiming the message or has most of your time been spent on trying to bring down Danny, 3abn and those associated with it? The bible says we shall know people by their fruits. You don't really know that DS/3abn has done anything wrong as you don't have all the info, but Satan has you running in circles trying to prove something that isn't there. While your side is running, 3ABN continues to spread the gospel to the world. By their fruits you shall know them. All I can see is good fruit coming from 3ABN and bad fruit from your team. Details are not important. Satan is the God of details. Look at the big picture.
There we are...not our problem to question whether Danny and family had their hands in the offering bucket or to question their lack of due process and maintaining Seventh-day Adventist christian business standards.
They, like Gantry and so many other miscreants before them, are preaching the gospel and saving souls and therefore are not to be questioned!!!
You know, it is a problematic biblical truth that the Lord Annointed Saul, then annointed David and David lead a clear opposition to Sauls errors and excesses for several years and then took the throne from Sauls family.
Was David of the devil for opposing the annointed of the Lord?
Gailon Arthur Joy