Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Mary Sue Smith on June 27, 2008, 10:27:00 PM
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Go here to read about it--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/messages/136?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
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Edited to replace the link with a more specific link.
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Wow! That was really informative. (Not!) :scratch:
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Go here to read about it--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/messages
I followed your link and saw that there was news but didn't find what the news was. Could you tell us, or copy and paste it here?
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I saw that Sam has declared 3ABN "clean as a whistle". On what grounds?
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I saw that Sam has declared 3ABN "clean as a whistle". On what grounds?
Intersting perspective. How did he come to that conclusion?
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I saw that Sam has declared 3ABN "clean as a whistle". On what grounds?
My old grandma used to say, "If wish were horses, then beggars would ride." Sam must conform to that same sort of reasoning, "If wishes could make the truth go away, then no sin the Shelton brothers committed ever occurred." 3ABN as an organization may be attempting to clean up the internal problems caused by Danny Shelton, but that does not change the history of what he has already done. I think Sam needs a reality check and soon...
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Oh, there is a reality check in the mail . . . but it isn't addressed to Sam or anyone at 3ABN . . . but will certainly give a clear picture of things . . .
My old grandma used to say, "If wish were horses, then beggars would ride." Sam must conform to that same sort of reasoning, "If wishes could make the truth go away, then no sin the Shelton brothers committed ever occurred." 3ABN as an organization may be attempting to clean up the internal problems caused by Danny Shelton, but that does not change the history of what he has already done. I think Sam needs a reality check and soon...
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How do you transfer a wish by mail?
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So, are we being told that Sam = Danny Shelton? :huh:
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So, are we being told that Sam = Danny Shelton? :huh:
Being that I have read the previous and clear denunciations regarding this I would have to say the answer to that is a big "Negatory"
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I read all the posts there, however, I still don't know what this great news is that is supposed to exonerate both Danny Shelton and 3ABN and make them as clean as a whistle?
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I read all the posts there, however, I still don't know what this great news is that is supposed to exonerate both Danny Shelton and 3ABN and make them as clean as a whistle?
Considering the role that they have played, has anyone here thought to have asked either Bob Pickle or, Gailon Joy what they know about this, and cuurent news and reports?
If so,what was their answer?
If not, what is their answer, as I am asking that here, and am sure others are interested?
I for one would most assuredly like to know and hear their input.
Not unreasonable I am sure, as wouldn't you all here also like to know and understand this and put it in perspective?
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It's kind of hard for anybody to respond to news when we don't even know what that news is supposed to be.
Also, the lack of detail about what that news is supposed to be is likewise suspicious in itself.
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Considering the role that they have played, has anyone here thought to have asked either BobPickle or, Gailon Joy know about this?
If so,what was their answer?
If not, what is their answer, as I am asking that here, and am sure others are interested?
I for one would most assuredly like to know and hear their input.
Not unreasonable I am sure, as wouldn't you all here also like to know and understand this and put it in perspective?
Their role in what? I would like to hear their input too, but regarding what? Junebug said there was big news and gave us a link, but I can't find where the news is. At 3abnd they are elated about the news and rejoicing over it, but they don't identify what it is.
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I read all the posts there, however, I still don\'t know what this great news is that is supposed to exonerate both Danny Shelton and 3ABN and make them as clean as a whistle?
All of you have been given the truth all along from those who have defended Dannny Shelton and 3ABN and sadly none of you could discern that either.
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For someone who is unable to read minds to discern .... :help:
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All of you have been given the truth all along from those who have defended Dannny Shelton and 3ABN and sadly none of you could discern that either.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: So now we are supposed to discern the news?
"Breaking news! Today in an Asian country there are people mourning over the thing that happened there. There are other people celebrating. And a result prices have gone up on the product. Yet, in an African country prices remained steady on the other product and the populace are showing indifference to the thing that happened in the Asian country."
"What happened in which Asian country, and what is the product?"
"Huh? You don't know? Obviously you don't know how to discern the news."
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Seems no one can find what the good news is
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/message/142
Message # Search: Advanced (Stan Jensen)
3ABN CLEAN AS A WHISTLE!!!!
Re: 3ABN CLEAN AS A WHISTLE!!!!
Is this prophetic? or was there a court action that I am not able to find?
Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:37 pm
"Stan Jensen" <stanjensen@...>
stanvjensen
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This appears to be bait. It looks like they're trying to stir up fear and concern. If there was such "great news" out there, don't you think they would have been trumpeting it far and wide?
So this great and wonderful news comes out and the only ones who know about it are on the 3ABN Defended group? :ROFL:
Sure, and the check was mailed yesterday, too.
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Do you think they have been talking to the janitor at 3ABN and got told the whole place is squeaky clean?
In the absence of anything more substantive, I think this just goes in the 'To Be Watched" File.
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Do you think they have been talking to the janitor at 3ABN and got told the whole place is squeaky clean?
In the absence of anything more substantive, I think this just goes in the 'To Be Watched" File.
Be interesting to hear from 3ABN supporters exactly what this is suppossed to mean
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Do you think they have been talking to the janitor at 3ABN and got told the whole place is squeaky clean?
In the absence of anything more substantive, I think this just goes in the 'To Be Watched" File.
Be interesting to hear from 3ABN supporters exactly what this is suppossed to mean
It's all so exciting that they can't even tell what it is. :dunno: Must be some news! :ROFL:
If 3abn was found to be 'sqeaky clean', they would be yelling the evidence from the roof tops. :scratch: Meanwhile, I'll go back to enjoying a quiet weekend. :dogwag:
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Whatever the news is that the 3ABN defenders are sitting on at this point, I doubt that it has the ability to magically transform 3ABN into a "squeaky clean" place.
That's for sure Artiste! :ROFL:
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the "Squeaky Clean" information must be sitting in the same file as the damaging true information against Linda Shelton. :rabbit:
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Whatever the news is that the 3ABN defenders are sitting on at this point, I doubt that it has the ability to magically transform 3ABN into a "squeaky clean" place.
That's for sure Artiste! :ROFL:
I must have missed something here. Very likely there is an error. It looks like you are talking to yourself.
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Considering the role that they have played, has anyone here thought to have asked either Bob Pickle or, Gailon Joy know about this?
If so,what was their answer?
If not, what is their answer, as I am asking that here, and am sure others are interested?
I for one would most assuredly like to know and hear their input.
Not unreasonable I am sure, as wouldn't you all here also like to know and understand this and put it in perspective?
Their role in what? I would like to hear their input too, but regarding what? Junebug said there was big news and gave us a link, but I can't find where the news is. At 3abnd they are elated about the news and rejoicing over it, but they don't identify what it is.
Their role in this investigation of 3ABN and the law suit.
I didn't see any announcement of what the news is either.
It seems highly probable that with Gailon and Bob being so involved, and having their fingers in all the pies, so to speak, that they may know the latest news.
If so, they would be the best qualified to let us know what all the rejoicing by the supporters is all about.
Can someone email them?
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There has been much speculation on the Internet over the past 48 hours in regard to some major development that has taken place that has proclaimed 3-ABN to be clean, whatever that means. That is the issue: No one knows exactly what is supposed to have happened. In a real way anything that I can say about it is only speculative.
I have made attempts to find out what is going on yesterday and today. My attempts have failed. I do not have any authorative knowledge. In some cases I have not been able to talk to the individual I had attempted to contact. In other cases no response was given to me.
I was able to discuss some of this speculation with a SDA Attorney, this morning, who attends the same church I attend. [NOTE: For those who like to speculate, this was not the female attorney that some of you think has been highly involved.] My comments here will reflect my thinking as well as some of the comments made to me by that attorney.
The thinking of people who have talked to me about what is being said on the Internet, as well as how certain Internet posts have been understood is that this major development involved the Internal Revenue Service alleged investigation of 3-ABN. While that may be accurate, it is also possible that this alleged development involves something not related in any way to the IRS. As many seem to think that it does involve the IRS, I am going to comment on this alleged development from that standpoint.
First, I have been told that there could be several valid reasons why a major development has occurred and the specifics have not been published at this point. I do not think that there is any value in speculating on possible reasons and therefore I am not going to comment further on this point.
I think that it would be well to consider the approach that the Internal Revenue Service often takes in an investigation. While it may launch a criminal investigation [NOTE: I am not alleging that a criminal investigation has been launched against 3-ABN.] it often prefers to change the criminal investigation to a civil case. It will often prefer to allow a civil case to become a negotiated settlement of the issues. Once that settlement has been reached the organization is given a clean bill of health as all questions are resolved.
The settlement agreement between the IRS and the organization may be available to the general public. Or, it may not be made available to the general public and it becomes a confidential document that is restricted in its distribution. So, if the IRS and 3-ABN have reached a settlement agreement, is it now, or will it become, a public document available to the general public? [NOTE: Again, I do not make any claim as to whether or not the IRS has investigated 3-ABN.]
If this major development involves a decision by the IRS in regard to 3-ABN, and it may not, in my opinion the following are the possibilities:
1) It is possible that the IRS has determined that 3-ABN has done nothing that warrants either criminal or civil sanctions.
If this is the fact, this is a major development that is likely to have a major effect in the ongoing civil litigation. I am not going to comment further on this at this time. But, I will suggest that the importance of a ruling of this nature cannot be underestimated.
2) It is possible that the IRS has determined that criminal action is not warranted, but civil action will occur.
This could be a significant development. But, it would be important in essence saying that mistakes were made but they were mistakes of ignorance and not of criminal intent.
3) It is possible that the IRS has determined that neither criminal nor civil action is warranted. Rather a settlement agreement took place.
This would in essence be a statement to the fact that while mistakes may have made they were simple mistakes more of a type than can be commonly be made as people fill out the complex IRS documents. In addition, it is likely that the settlement agreement may not allege that mistakes were actually made. Rather, it may be a simple statement that without acknowledging any fault the IRS and 3-ABN have settled these issues. A settlement agreement may not be used to assert proof of wrong doing. It may be nothing more than an agreement that resolves the issues.
So, where are we at this point in time? We are not at any place where a definitive statement can be made. For possibly valid reasons those with knowledge are not telling us what has happened. They are telling us to wait and see. Are they blowing wind? I do not think so. I think that a major development has happened. I do not know what it is. My post here is speculative. I am simply waiting for further developments which I hope will tell us what has happened.
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Oh, there is a reality check in the mail . . . but it isn't addressed to Sam or anyone at 3ABN . . . but will certainly give a clear picture of things . . .
We have been asked to "speculate" on the jubilation of SAM and group.
One is left to conclude that whatever it is that has so many excited about so little is clearly wanton or 3ABN would have already trumpeted the same in an official news release on their own website. Therefore, we will put our ears to the ground and see if we can hear hoof-beats that even begin to justify a handshake, let alone celebration.
1)The bad news is that Remnant has been ordered to produce and so 3ABN has scampered back to court to try once again to obstruct the production.
2)The good news is that at the last minute they filed a belated and wholely inappropriate motion to quash a subpoena to which they are not even parties to in Southern Illinois to prevent the production of the auditors paperwork. But it will be opposed and the law supports the production...that's the bad news.
3) ANd they have filed another motion just before they were to produce documents based on their own stipulation of June 11 requested way back in December 2007. So, we are left with a whole pile of BlackSDA production, Maritime Production and a few odds and ends declared "confidential" and designed to make it look like they are producing, when they are largely non-substantive responses yet again. Still nothing, nadya, nein, regarding the alledged allegations against Linda, to mention just one that we have been waiting for with "baited breathe".
And I would recommend you not "hold your breathe" waiting!!!
4) We have a Rule 11 issue pending that would seem a bit problematic for that new lawyer they are so excited about, Gregory Simpson. And of course that would probably lead to a formal compalint to the bar, but shouldn't be a problem for a man that sits on the ethics committee.
5) Judge Saylor extended the "ALL" Discovery pursuant to our Motion for Extention for another 90 days. Probably won't be the last!!!
I simply must be missing something, and I fear not even the Lord knows what, but there has just not been much good news, except a much bigger legal bill with Simpson charging three hundred ($300) dollars an hour to close all those leaking holes in the dyke!!! Maybe Peter or Hanzel would be more effective and cheaper!!!
Now, if 3ABN is "exonerated" why would they want to continue to block discovery essential to the question of "private inurement" and "director oversight" of the financial affairs? Seems as though they would be happy for us to have all that exonerating documentation; and I doubt we have asked for anything anywhere near the information that the IRS asked to look at.
In fact, Simpson recently addressed the IRS Investigation documentation in a ludicrous effort to prevent us from getting access to those records. They would have to eliminate the "per se" allegations to even get close to calling such records "Irrelevant"; then eliminate allegations relevant to private inurement; and don't forget eliminating the allegations relating to the board of directors, etc.
And, ANYMAN has made it clear "it isn't addressed to Sam or anyone at 3ABN" so we must conclude the weight of the evidence weighs heavily against anything even close to an "exoneration" of the old Board or Danny Lee Shelton.
Although, one cannot eliminate the possibility that the board let Danny Lee Shelton audit himself and then wrote his own letter to the board "exonerating" all of them. Now that would be news worth a roll in the parking lot, or any available floor. Worthless, but hilarious.
Will keep you posted, but that is the view from here in the bunker!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Their role in this investigation of 3ABN and the law suit.
I didn't see any announcement of what the news is either.
It seems highly probable that with Gailon and Bob being so involved, and having their fingers in all the pies, so to speak, that they may know the latest news.
If so, they would be the best qualified to let us know what all the rejoicing by the supporters is all about.
Can someone email them?
Looks like at least one question is answered. But we still don't know what this cryptic news is that we supposed to discern.
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There is plenty of sound in an empty barrel
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A little disinformation to:
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There is plenty of sound in an empty barrel
A little disinformation to:
1. Divert attention however ephemerally from DS on this board
2. Divert AT posters to the Yahoo site
Purpose? Perhaps to gain a little respite from the unrelenting 'respectful discussion of 3ABN issues" on this board.
Just my opinion. Mat. 18 notwithstanding.
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I read all the posts there, however, I still don\'t know what this great news is that is supposed to exonerate both Danny Shelton and 3ABN and make them as clean as a whistle?
All of you have been given the truth all along from those who have defended Dannny Shelton and 3ABN and sadly
none of you could discern that either.
"Child_of_God,"
So, you are the only one who knows the truth? You must be God Himself! Sorry for not paying attention!
Eduard
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C/A weighs in. Only waiting for the approval to post the momentous news.Sounds as if you will have your answer
posted on C/A
http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/174866/3ABN#Post174866
Stan Jensen
I doubt if he will return, as he was looking for a new President for 3 years or so..
Word on the street, says, there were a number of bogus charges.. It is true that people love and believe in a lie.
Many of us are supporters of Linda, and would wish 'they' would have put their energy into building her ministry. Instead, they have scared off other adventist media, and conferences from ever hiring her.
In my opinion, the 'Gregory, Joy, Pickle, Fran' team did her more damage for her career than her termination did. Just my opinion. not my kids, spouse, employer, pet rock and friends. HOWEVER my goldfish, says this is her opinion as well.
[/b]
#174949 - Today at 05:12 AM Re: 3ABN [Re: Stan Jensen]
Stan Jensen
Carpe Diem!!!
Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 3206
Loc: 49.05° Lat- 122.3° Long Am eagerly waiting the approval to post the vindication they had late this week
_________________________
#174957 - Today at 06:24 AM Re: 3ABN [Re: Stan Jensen]
CyberGuy
Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 1257
Loc: USA From what I am reading the lawsuit that is all the talk on the other forums does not go to trial until April 2009. Unless they settled out of court?
_________________________
Riverside CA
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All of you have been given the truth all along from those who have defended Dannny Shelton and 3ABN and sadly none of you could discern that either.
"Child_of_God,"
So, you are the only one who knows the truth? You must be God Himself! Sorry for not paying attention!
Eduard
This post is actually a mild one compared to most, but I keep reading all your posts on this forum and going :huh:
I have come to the conclusion that they must represent the spirit of this forum and express the general consensus and way of thinking here as you just keep posting so rudely and so angrily without any objections or disagreement from the majority here.
Maybe this explains what's in the heart causing all of this? Just click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yzjDXp_og)
I think you need to lighten up a bit.
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"Rosa,"
You must be right about the consensus on this forum. I never liked arrogant hypocrites, and pseudochristians, and I never hesitated to tell them to their faces what they truly are. Common manners (of which you are not aware) refrain people from assuming the right to tutor people they don't know. You are not my mother, spouse, or anyone near. So, instead of PATRONIZING me, go to the the gang of your kind and spend your time with them. Good bye!
Eduard
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Oh, there is a reality check in the mail . . . but it isn't addressed to Sam or anyone at 3ABN . . . but will certainly give a clear picture of things . . .
We have been asked to "speculate" on the jubilation of SAM and group.
One is left to conclude that whatever it is that has so many excited about so little is clearly wanton or 3ABN would have already trumpeted the same in an official news release on their own website. Therefore, we will put our ears to the ground and see if we can hear hoof-beats that even begin to justify a handshake, let alone celebration.
1)The bad news is that Remnant has been ordered to produce and so 3ABN has scampered back to court to try once again to obstruct the production.
2)The good news is that at the last minute they filed a belated and wholely inappropriate motion to quash a subpoena to which they are not even parties to in Southern Illinois to prevent the production of the auditors paperwork. But it will be opposed and the law supports the production...that's the bad news.
3) ANd they have filed another motion just before they were to produce documents based on their own stipulation of June 11 requested way back in December 2007. So, we are left with a whole pile of BlackSDA production, Maritime Production and a few odds and ends declared "confidential" and designed to make it look like they are producing, when they are largely non-substantive responses yet again. Still nothing, nadya, nein, regarding the alledged allegations against Linda, to mention just one that we have been waiting for with "baited breathe".
And I would recommend you not "hold your breathe" waiting!!!
4) We have a Rule 11 issue pending that would seem a bit problematic for that new lawyer they are so excited about, Gregory Simpson. And of course that would probably lead to a formal compalint to the bar, but shouldn't be a problem for a man that sits on the ethics committee.
5) Judge Saylor extended the "ALL" Discovery pursuant to our Motion for Extention for another 90 days. Probably won't be the last!!!
I simply must be missing something, and I fear not even the Lord knows what, but there has just not been much good news, except a much bigger legal bill with Simpson charging three hundred ($300) dollars an hour to close all those leaking holes in the dyke!!! Maybe Peter or Hanzel would be more effective and cheaper!!!
Now, if 3ABN is "exonerated" why would they want to continue to block discovery essential to the question of "private inurement" and "director oversight" of the financial affairs? Seems as though they would be happy for us to have all that exonerating documentation; and I doubt we have asked for anything anywhere near the information that the IRS asked to look at.
In fact, Simpson recently addressed the IRS Investigation documentation in a ludicrous effort to prevent us from getting access to those records. They would have to eliminate the "per se" allegations to even get close to calling such records "Irrelevant"; then eliminate allegations relevant to private inurement; and don't forget eliminating the allegations relating to the board of directors, etc.
And, ANYMAN has made it clear "it isn't addressed to Sam or anyone at 3ABN" so we must conclude the weight of the evidence weighs heavily against anything even close to an "exoneration" of the old Board or Danny Lee Shelton.
Although, one cannot eliminate the possibility that the board let Danny Lee Shelton audit himself and then wrote his own letter to the board "exonerating" all of them. Now that would be news worth a roll in the parking lot, or any available floor. Worthless, but hilarious.
Will keep you posted, but that is the view from here in the bunker!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
On the other hand:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/message/152
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"junebug,"
I obliged, and went to the website you have indicated to read the GREAT NEWS." Well, I have to say, I am indeed impressed!! To fill three pages with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING requires a very low IQ, and I am not used to be in the company of such people. So, I am learning!
I did not know that Danny Shelton had his own sect of brainwashed people who worship him, and are on call to do his dirty work. I hope all this "religion" will not end up with all his disciples somewhere in the bushes of Illionis drinking lethal stuff.
Eduard
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There has been much speculation on the Internet over the past 48 hours in regard to some major development that has taken place that has proclaimed 3-ABN to be clean, whatever that means. That is the issue: No one knows exactly what is supposed to have happened. In a real way anything that I can say about it is only speculative.
I have made attempts to find out what is going on yesterday and today. My attempts have failed. I do not have any authorative knowledge. In some cases I have not been able to talk to the individual I had attempted to contact. In other cases no response was given to me.
I was able to discuss some of this speculation with a SDA Attorney, this morning, who attends the same church I attend. [NOTE: For those who like to speculate, this was not the female attorney that some of you think has been highly involved.] My comments here will reflect my thinking as well as some of the comments made to me by that attorney.
The thinking of people who have talked to me about what is being said on the Internet, as well as how certain Internet posts have been understood is that this major development involved the Internal Revenue Service alleged investigation of 3-ABN. While that may be accurate, it is also possible that this alleged development involves something not related in any way to the IRS. As many seem to think that it does involve the IRS, I am going to comment on this alleged development from that standpoint.
First, I have been told that there could be several valid reasons why a major development has occurred and the specifics have not been published at this point. I do not think that there is any value in speculating on possible reasons and therefore I am not going to comment further on this point.
I think that it would be well to consider the approach that the Internal Revenue Service often takes in an investigation. While it may launch a criminal investigation [NOTE: I am not alleging that a criminal investigation has been launched against 3-ABN.] it often prefers to change the criminal investigation to a civil case. It will often prefer to allow a civil case to become a negotiated settlement of the issues. Once that settlement has been reached the organization is given a clean bill of health as all questions are resolved.
The settlement agreement between the IRS and the organization may be available to the general public. Or, it may not be made available to the general public and it becomes a confidential document that is restricted in its distribution. So, if the IRS and 3-ABN have reached a settlement agreement, is it now, or will it become, a public document available to the general public? [NOTE: Again, I do not make any claim as to whether or not the IRS has investigated 3-ABN.]
If this major development involves a decision by the IRS in regard to 3-ABN, and it may not, in my opinion the following are the possibilities:
1) It is possible that the IRS has determined that 3-ABN has done nothing that warrants either criminal or civil sanctions.
If this is the fact, this is a major development that is likely to have a major effect in the ongoing civil litigation. I am not going to comment further on this at this time. But, I will suggest that the importance of a ruling of this nature cannot be underestimated.
2) It is possible that the IRS has determined that criminal action is not warranted, but civil action will occur.
This could be a significant development. But, it would be important in essence saying that mistakes were made but they were mistakes of ignorance and not of criminal intent.
3) It is possible that the IRS has determined that neither criminal nor civil action is warranted. Rather a settlement agreement took place.
This would in essence be a statement to the fact that while mistakes may have made they were simple mistakes more of a type than can be commonly be made as people fill out the complex IRS documents. In addition, it is likely that the settlement agreement may not allege that mistakes were actually made. Rather, it may be a simple statement that without acknowledging any fault the IRS and 3-ABN have settled these issues. A settlement agreement may not be used to assert proof of wrong doing. It may be nothing more than an agreement that resolves the issues.
So, where are we at this point in time? We are not at any place where a definitive statement can be made. For possibly valid reasons those with knowledge are not telling us what has happened. They are telling us to wait and see. Are they blowing wind? I do not think so. I think that a major development has happened. I do not know what it is. My post here is speculative. I am simply waiting for further developments which I hope will tell us what has happened.
So is it safe to presume you don't know anything?
Most of your options don't make any sense when considering what has been posted on the Yahoo 3ABNdefended forum up till now.
On the other hand, the latest posts there make one of your options seem likely to be correct.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/message/149
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/message/151
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"Rosa,"
You must be right about the consensus on this forum. I never liked arrogant hypocrites, and pseudochristians, and I never hesitated to tell them to their faces what they truly are. Common manners (of which you are not aware) refrain people from assuming the right to tutor people they don't know. You are not my mother, spouse, or anyone near. So, instead of PATRONIZING me, go to the the gang of your kind and spend your time with them. Good bye!
Eduard
"junebug,"
I obliged, and went to the website you have indicated to read the GREAT NEWS." Well, I have to say, I am indeed impressed!! To fill three pages with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING requires a very low IQ, and I am not used to be in the company of such people. So, I am learning!
I did not know that Danny Shelton had his own sect of brainwashed people who worship him, and are on call to do his dirty work. I hope all this "religion" will not end up with all his disciples somewhere in the bushes of Illionis drinking lethal stuff.
Eduard
Rosa,
After some consideration, It seems likely to me that someone has allowed their disgruntled adolescent to access the internet without supervision.
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If I did say precisely that, which will need to be verified, what has been shared here from C/A in relation to this topic is OK with me and is therefore an exception.
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I think what Bonnie just posted is what I would have been basically what I had said, rather than disallowing the sharing of any posts from C/A here at A/T.
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"Nosir Myzing,"
Would you be able to identify a Pronoun/Antecedent error in this small sentence you have written?
"After some consideration, It seems likely to me that someone has allowed their disgruntled adolescent to access the internet without supervision."
I guess not! Sorry, I am asking too much of you!
I have read ALL YOUR POSTS, and in my PROFESSIONAL opinion they are all lacking CONTENT. Do you know what this means? Probably not!
Eduard
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This seems to fit right here.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPBS7dVrE1U
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Just a personal note:
After I made my public statement that I was no longer working closely with Linda Shelton I was accused of selling out to 3-ABN and going over to the so-called enemy.
Now I am being accused of being part of a Joy, Pickle, Fran team that has attempted to destroy 3-ABN and in the process had destroyed Linda.
Folks, get your act together. Decide what I am.
Perhaps since I am getting it from all sides right now I am actually in a good place. :) :)
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"junebug,"
I obliged, and went to the website you have indicated to read the GREAT NEWS." Well, I have to say, I am indeed impressed!! To fill three pages with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING requires a very low IQ, and I am not used to be in the company of such people. So, I am learning!
I did not know that Danny Shelton had his own sect of brainwashed people who worship him, and are on call to do his dirty work. I hope all this "religion" will not end up with all his disciples somewhere in the bushes of Illionis drinking lethal stuff.
Eduard
Eduard, once again your kind and Christian like posts, blow me away! You should have considered ministry, you would have been great at it.
BTW is Illionis the 51st state or a territory? Either way, the only drinking that will be going on is to toast carrot juice at the victory party.
=====
Edited to correct a quoted post formatting problem.
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This seems to fit right here.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPBS7dVrE1U
Maxey, It fit in perfectly. Thank you for sharing.
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ADMIN HAT ON!!!
The off-topic posts pertaining to C/A, etc. have been moved to Forum Concerns, therefore, any future posts of this nature posted in this topic will also be moved there and the person making those type of posts here will receive an immediate 48 hours cooling off ban.
ADMIN HAT OFF!!!
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Gregory,
There is little logic to the accusations from some who, in an apparent frenzy of misguided team spirit, seem to be interpreting the characters of others from a faulty code book. Such is the down-side of these so-called holy wars.
As for myself, I have gathered from your well-reasoned postings and communications that you are a true Christian gentleman who supported Linda without any self-centered agenda and brought a cautionary voice to the early investigation. You deserve a warm pat on the back and not an ounce of criticism.
GrandmaNettie
Just a personal note:
After I made my public statement that I was no longer working closely with Linda Shelton I was accused of selling out to 3-ABN and going over to the so-called enemy.
Now I am being accused of being part of a Joy, Pickle, Fran team that has attempted to destroy 3-ABN and in the process had destroyed Linda.
Folks, get your act together. Decide what I am.
Perhaps since I am getting it from all sides right now I am actually in a good place. :) :)
-
BTW is Illionis the 51st state or a territory? Either way, the only drinking that will be going on is to toast carrot juice at the victory party.
It is the 21st state.
I am sometimes reminded of the Bar-Kohba debacle as this drama plays out.
-
This post is actually a mild one compared to most, but I keep reading all your posts on this forum and going :huh:
I have come to the conclusion that they must represent the spirit of this forum and express the general consensus and way of thinking here as you just keep posting so rudely and so angrily without any objections or disagreement from the majority here.
Maybe this explains what's in the heart causing all of this? Just click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yzjDXp_og)
I think you need to lighten up a bit.
Delurking.......Oh I just love baby cats! Real ones are better though....and they don't quite sing like the ones in the video....Cute though....thanks for the smile...
Returning to Lurk Mode....
Willow
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Thank you Grandma for your kind words.
May your 85th birth day do well for you. May your rumatism not act up to much today.
GM
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Go here to read about it--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/messages/136?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1
=====
Edited to replace the link with a more specific link.
Junebug, are you talking about Ronnie's email regarding the conclusion of the IRS investigation?
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Re: Did you hear the news?
« Reply #31 on: Today at 06:39:25 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify
Quote from: Johann on Today at 04:57:59 AM
There is plenty of sound in an empty barrel
I repeat my earlier post. This touted http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/messages/136?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/messages/136?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1)
is nothing but
Quote from: Fair Havens on Today at 06:16:21 AM
A little disinformation to:
1. Divert attention however ephemerally from DS on this board
2. Divert AT posters to the Yahoo site
Purpose? Perhaps to gain a little respite from the unrelenting 'respectful discussion of 3ABN issues" on this board.
Just my opinion. Sam, Mat. 18 notwithstanding.
I've said reflexively, Fair Havens, do not play along.
-
You mean these e-mails from Thursday and Friday of last week:
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: audit
Hello friends,
I wanted to let you know that I got a call a few minutes ago and was told that the IRS has ended it's audit of both 3ABN and Danny Shelton's personal audit after nearly one year.
They called 3ABN's lawyers and ask them what 3ABN wanted them to do with the 13,000 pages of documents as they were closing the case! They could return the documents or destroy them.
THE VERDICT... Not one infraction, not one discrepancy, not one fine!
SQUEAKY CLEAN! Complete vindication!
We are not surprised however, God has been in control all the time! He has foiled another attack by the adversary on one of His greatest ministries!
Blessings,
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:32 PM
Subject: Audit of 3ABN
Hello friends,
I got another update about the number of 3ABN documents that was examined by the IRS. I told you wrong last night. It's not 13,000.,, The lawyers are saying .. OVER 100,000.
Praise the Lord!
Blessings,
Ron
We know that is what the elation seems to be about but the content remains
un substantiated. 3ABN itself remains silent on such an important issue. But then
maybe they are saving if for the fireworks on Thursday Night Live 3ABN Today. The US Attorney's office also remains silent. Someone will break one way or the other in time.
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
So thats that. Congratulations to you Sam, Ian, Donna, Anyman, Junebug and all the others. Negotiation and settlements can be wonderful options in so many disputes. Tomorrow I will go down to Jamba and raise a carrot juice (laced with wheat grass) to the end of this portion of the saga.
-
So thats that. Congratulations to you Sam, Ian, Donna, Anyman, Junebug and all the others. Negotiation and settlements can be wonderful options in so many disputes. Tomorrow I will go down to Jamba and raise a carrot juice (laced with wheat grass) to the end of this portion of the saga.
I have a question about your words above which I have taken the liberty of emphasizing with bold text.
I see no indication of any dispute resolution or negotiation of a settlement in the letters Gailon quoted.
Whilst this has not been confirmed, it does say.
THE VERDICT... Not one infraction, not one discrepancy, not one fine!
SQUEAKY CLEAN! Complete vindication!
Are you speaking of negotiation for resolution and settlement in the dispute and lawsuit 3ABN filed against Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle? or are you speaking of the IRS investigation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN?
If the latter, what are your words based on?
I ask the question sincerely as just a couple posts back you didn't seem to even know what the good news was.
-
You mean these e-mails from Thursday and Friday of last week:
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: audit
Hello friends,
I wanted to let you know that I got a call a few minutes ago and was told that the IRS has ended it's audit of both 3ABN and Danny Shelton's personal audit after nearly one year.
They called 3ABN's lawyers and ask them what 3ABN wanted them to do with the 13,000 pages of documents as they were closing the case! They could return the documents or destroy them.
THE VERDICT... Not one infraction, not one discrepancy, not one fine!
SQUEAKY CLEAN! Complete vindication!
We are not surprised however, God has been in control all the time! He has foiled another attack by the adversary on one of His greatest ministries!
Blessings,
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:32 PM
Subject: Audit of 3ABN
Hello friends,
I got another update about the number of 3ABN documents that was examined by the IRS. I told you wrong last night. It's not 13,000.,, The lawyers are saying .. OVER 100,000.
Praise the Lord!
Blessings,
Ron
We know that is what the elation seems to be about but the content remains
un substantiated. 3ABN itself remains silent on such an important issue. But then
maybe they are saving if for the fireworks on Thursday Night Live 3ABN Today. The US Attorney's office also remains silent. Someone will break one way or the other in time.
Gailon Arthur Joy
Must be another interesting story here about who these emails were sent to and how they came to be in your hands.
I hope the recipient as well as yourself asked permission to both pass them on, and to publish them.
-
Well, the word is clearly out that the Internal Revenue Service had cleared 3-ABN of financial misconduct as it relates to their area of purview. This is a significant development that in my opinion has major consequences related to the lawsuit against Gailon and Bob, and others. Early this morning I sent an e-mail to Gailon in which I told him I would be posting on this subject and I invited him to read it and respond. He and I both agree in freedom of discussion and that there is value in people of differing perspectives discussing what those differences are. So, I expect him to post his perspective on what I am going to say.
It has been properly stated that this news that the IRS has totally cleared 3-ABN is unconfirmed. That is accurate. However, I believe it to be true:
1) It passes the smell test for me. i.e. The messages posted by the 3-ABN defenders appear to me to be truthful. If there is some inaccuracy I expect that it will be minor.
2) If Gailon had any substantial doubt he would have informed us of that specific doubt. His failure to do so suggests to me that that the report is accurate.
3) This report is consistent with how I understand our legal system and the working of the IRS.
a) While I have believed that the allegations of wrong doing by 3-ABN against the IRS deserved investigation, they did not in my understanding meet the “preponderance of evidence” standard.
b) They certainly did not meet the “beyond all reasonable doubt” standard which was required for some of the allegations.
In general terms I will suggest that this decision will have a major impact upon the litigation that 3-ABN has filed against Gailon and Bob. It does not affect, in my thinking certain parts of that litigation. However, I will suggest that it does affect some major parts and that it becomes much more likely that 3-ABN will prevail in regard to charges related to libel and defamation of character. NOTE: I am neither a licensed attorney nor am I trained in the law. My statements here are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion nor are they intended to be an expression of the legal merits of any litigation. Such opinions should be obtained from competent legal counsel which I am not.
I will suggest that this decision may have an impact on Gailon, Bob, Fran and Linda:
Gailon may not be an attorney. However, he is astute in regard to reading the direction that the legal wind is blowing. I will suggest that he will understand how this decision might affect him and that he will act accordingly. I am not going to presume to advice him in an area that I expect him to understand. But, it will be of interest to see how he personally responds.
Bob had done remarkably well in representing himself pro se. However, in my opinion he is failing to prevail. Success in litigation is not measured by inconsequential victories. Rather it is measured by whether or not one prevails. Bob appears to me to be outgunned and acting outside his area of expertise. I simply see him as failing to prevail. As such he may want to consider contacting the attorneys who represent 3-ABN and asking how his part in the lawsuit can be resolved without further litigation. This has been a huge emotional and financial drain on him and on his family. It may be time for him to attempt to reach a settlement and move on in the life of him and his family.
Fran: I have no substantial comment about her. She raised issues that were worthy of investigation. The IRS now appears to have ruled against her. She can be thankful that she has not been a defendant in the litigation.
Linda: On the surface this may appear to some to have no effect on her. She can be thankful that she is not a defendant. She has raised issues that do not appear to be related to the IRS ruling. But, this ruling has a deeper meaning for her than what lies on the surface. This ruling is likely to bring the ongoing controversy to a close in major aspects sooner rather than later. As that time comes, Linda will need to move on with her life which is a life outside of the litigation and this controversy. She will have to make a life for herself that is unrelated to either Danny or 3-ABN. That time has been expected to come eventually. I will suggest that it will now come sooner.
Well, we shall wait and see how things develop.
Gregory Matthews
-
I can both understand and appreciate how in many ways it may have been difficult to write the above, Gregory.
I am therefore all the more appreciative of your candor.
Yes, we shall wait and see how things develop.
-
I can both understand and appreciate how in many ways it may have been difficult to write the above, Gregory.
I am therefore all the more appreciative of your candor.
Yes, we shall wait and see how things develop.
I am with you, Nosir, in your comments on Gregory's post :goodpost:; however, I have another question mainly because I don't always understand the workings of the law nor the IRS. :dunno:
Q: Is it possible that the rulings came as a result of any questions being cleared up by payment of any monies owed in the areas under discovery thereby clearing up any 'misunderstandings' or 'possible underreportings' by 3ABN's financial officers and others connected to the financial aspect of the ministry? :hot: :console: :hot:
Any comments, anybody? :TY:
GrammieT
P.S. Please don't jump all over me now. I'm just wondering how everything got so cleared up so quickly. :help:
-
I would also like to hear Fran's thoughts regarding this latest news.
-
"Gregory,"
For someone who states that,
"NOTE: I am neither a licensed attorney nor am I trained in the law. My statements here are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion nor are they intended to be an expression of the legal merits of any litigation. Such opinions should be obtained from competent legal counsel which I am not,"
I would say that the extensive conclusions included in your post seems to indicate a rather definitive, expert, and terminal perspective on the course of the litigation between Shelton and Joy & Pickle. The way you contradict yourself leaves me confused. You affirm that:
1. the fact that "the Internal Revenue Service had cleared 3-ABN of financial misconduct as it relates to their area of purview... is a significant development that in my opinion has major consequences related to the lawsuit against Gailon and Bob, and others,"
2. that " this decision will have a major impact upon the litigation that 3-ABN has filed against Gailon and Bob. It does not affect, in my thinking certain parts of that litigation. However, I will suggest that it does affect some major parts and that it becomes much more likely that 3-ABN will prevail in regard to charges related to libel and defamation of character,"
3. that "this decision may have an impact on Gailon, Bob, Fran and Linda,"
4. that Bob...is failing to prevail. Success in litigation is not measured by inconsequential victories. Rather it is measured by whether or not one prevails. Bob appears to me to be outgunned and acting outside his area of expertise. I simply see him as failing to prevail." You also offer to Bob professional advice, by stating that "as such he may want to consider contacting the attorneys who represent 3-ABN and asking how his part in the lawsuit can be resolved without further litigation. This has been a huge emotional and financial drain on him and on his family. It may be time for him to attempt to reach a settlement and move on in the life of him and his family."
5. About Fran you state, "Fran: I have no substantial comment about her. She raised issues that were worthy of investigation. The IRS now appears to have ruled against her. She can be thankful that she has not been a defendant in the litigation."
6. and about Linda you affirm: "Linda: On the surface this may appear to some to have no effect on her. She can be thankful that she is not a defendant. She has raised issues that do not appear to be related to the IRS ruling. But, this ruling has a deeper meaning for her than what lies on the surface. This ruling is likely to bring the ongoing controversy to a close in major aspects sooner rather than later. As that time comes, Linda will need to move on with her life which is a life outside of the litigation and this controversy. She will have to make a life for herself that is unrelated to either Danny or 3-ABN. That time has been expected to come eventually. I will suggest that it will now come sooner."
The above statements seem to come from someone with extensive legal expertise, but the individual who makes such comments denies any training in the law, claims that his statements "are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion," and also his statements are not "an expression of the legal merits of any litigation."
So, my question is: If these statements are MERE personal thoughts, and nothing more, 1. What is their value for those involved in the litigation ( I guess none!)?, and 2. why did you bother to write the message? (Too much free time?)
Eduard
-
Please don't congratulate me Habby, it has never been a competition and I didn't win anything. I listened to the truth when I heard it. I defended what I had prayerfully discerned as truth and knew God would lead, guide, and protect. This isn't about personal won - lose records as we know God will always win in the end.
And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies? As has been used her many times - where there is smoke, there is fire. Remember the certainty and condescension that was used in crowing the accusations about financial mis-dealings? Remember the claims of a wealth of information and documentation that would convict a jury that 3ABN and Danny had been involved in a myriad of financial mis-dealings? Remember the claims of victory and financial gain when all the accusations were substantiated in court with all that documentation?
Yes, there is rejoicing . . . rejoicing that God is faithful to His word to keep His hand around the faithful even when the Fallen One is pulling out all the stops to cover up the truth and destroy them. The rejoicing is about God's great love and faithfulness . . . and not about "winning" . . .
So thats that. Congratulations to you Sam, Ian, Donna, Anyman, Junebug and all the others. Negotiation and settlements can be wonderful options in so many disputes. Tomorrow I will go down to Jamba and raise a carrot juice (laced with wheat grass) to the end of this portion of the saga.
-
The above statements seem to come from someone with extensive legal expertise, but the individual who makes such comments denies any training in the law, claims that his statements "are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion," and also his statements are not "an expression of the legal merits of any litigation."
Presumably Gregory has been conferring with one of his legal friends/advisors.
-
Yes, there is rejoicing . . . rejoicing that God is faithful to His word to keep His hand around the faithful even when the Fallen One is pulling out all the stops to cover up the truth and destroy them. The rejoicing is about God's great love and faithfulness . . . and not about "winning" . . .
Since a number of us are cognizant of the fact that the "Fallen One" who is helping to cover up the truth is actually on the other side of what anyman has protrayed above, we will keep waiting for God to reveal the truth to all and sundry...and that time will come.
-
Well, this is an interesting position . . . I am going to defend Mr. Matthews, a man I have had major disagreements with and continue to disagree on some points with. His posting is accurate, anyone with an ability to consider the content of his posting will see that it just makes plain sense. As I asked in another thread - Do you remember that chest thumping about how 3ABN and Danny were going down to all kinds of ruin because of the wealth of documentation that Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, and Fran ******** had about all those myriad of financial illegalities committed by 3ABN and Danny?
It is all moot now isn't it? There is no truth in their claims. I think the word that is being used is "exonerated" that would mean total admission by the Governing agency that there is nothing amiss . . . and if one reads the emails from Mr. R. Shelton carefully, there is no mention of payments, settlements . . . no, the agency has cleared them - period.
Back to Mr. Matthews. His post is well thought out and accurate and one need not be an attorney, if one has connection to attorneys that one can ask for interpretation. A good paralegal knows they are not to give legal advice - but can take questions from their clients back to the attorney, ask for response, and then take the response back to the client - that is not a broach of legal ethics. Mr. Matthews is merely sharing reasonable conjecture and making it clear that he does not do so as an attorney - but do you know if he did or didn't run it by an attorney to get some thoughts and ideas? Do you know what his experience with the law has been?
The point is this. This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
The value of Mr. Matthews statements is that the contribute to the dialogue here - they C O N T R I B U T E! Weighted in the balance his comments are substantive and lead to reasoned discussion about the issues at hand. He is willing to accept the truth and see how it fits into the changing picture. I appreciate and hope that Mr. Matthews will continue to contribute - even if I don't agree with him I appreciate his attempts at candor.
"Gregory,"
For someone who states that,
"NOTE: I am neither a licensed attorney nor am I trained in the law. My statements here are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion nor are they intended to be an expression of the legal merits of any litigation. Such opinions should be obtained from competent legal counsel which I am not,"
I would say that the extensive conclusions included in your post seems to indicate a rather definitive, expert, and terminal perspective on the course of the litigation between Shelton and Joy & Pickle. The way you contradict yourself leaves me confused. You affirm that:
1. the fact that "the Internal Revenue Service had cleared 3-ABN of financial misconduct as it relates to their area of purview... is a significant development that in my opinion has major consequences related to the lawsuit against Gailon and Bob, and others,"
2. that " this decision will have a major impact upon the litigation that 3-ABN has filed against Gailon and Bob. It does not affect, in my thinking certain parts of that litigation. However, I will suggest that it does affect some major parts and that it becomes much more likely that 3-ABN will prevail in regard to charges related to libel and defamation of character,"
3. that "this decision may have an impact on Gailon, Bob, Fran and Linda,"
4. that Bob...is failing to prevail. Success in litigation is not measured by inconsequential victories. Rather it is measured by whether or not one prevails. Bob appears to me to be outgunned and acting outside his area of expertise. I simply see him as failing to prevail." You also offer to Bob professional advice, by stating that "as such he may want to consider contacting the attorneys who represent 3-ABN and asking how his part in the lawsuit can be resolved without further litigation. This has been a huge emotional and financial drain on him and on his family. It may be time for him to attempt to reach a settlement and move on in the life of him and his family."
5. About Fran you state, "Fran: I have no substantial comment about her. She raised issues that were worthy of investigation. The IRS now appears to have ruled against her. She can be thankful that she has not been a defendant in the litigation."
6. and about Linda you affirm: "Linda: On the surface this may appear to some to have no effect on her. She can be thankful that she is not a defendant. She has raised issues that do not appear to be related to the IRS ruling. But, this ruling has a deeper meaning for her than what lies on the surface. This ruling is likely to bring the ongoing controversy to a close in major aspects sooner rather than later. As that time comes, Linda will need to move on with her life which is a life outside of the litigation and this controversy. She will have to make a life for herself that is unrelated to either Danny or 3-ABN. That time has been expected to come eventually. I will suggest that it will now come sooner."
The above statements seem to come from someone with extensive legal expertise, but the individual who makes such comments denies any training in the law, claims that his statements "are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion," and also his statements are not "an expression of the legal merits of any litigation."
So, my question is: If these statements are MERE personal thoughts, and nothing more, 1. What is their value for those involved in the litigation ( I guess none!)?, and 2. why did you bother to write the message? (Too much free time?)
Eduard
-
It is all moot now isn't it? There is no truth in their claims. I think the word that is being used is "exonerated" that would mean total admission by the Governing agency that there is nothing amiss . . . and if one reads the emails from Mr. R. Shelton carefully, there is no mention of payments, settlements . . . no, the agency has cleared them - period.
The fact that the government has found nothing does not equate to "no truth in their claims".
It only means that the government didn't find it. "Cooked books" are somtimes successful.
-
"anyman,"
You are very mean to me, but I will forgive you. Your celebration, though, is premature. Shakespeare said that "All is well when IT ENDS WELL." Well, it hasn't ended, and it is far from ending soon for Danny Shelton. The IRS is just a little piece in the puzzle. Trere is also Linda, and Danny's unproven claims that she commited adultery, the child molestation cases, and other issues which will keep him awake at night, and maybe send him to the hospital. And then there is his REPUTATION! He will never clear his name even if he sues the whole world!
Eduard
-
Please don't congratulate me Habby, it has never been a competition and I didn't win anything. I listened to the truth when I heard it. I defended what I had prayerfully discerned as truth and knew God would lead, guide, and protect. This isn't about personal won - lose records as we know God will always win in the end.
And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies? As has been used her many times - where there is smoke, there is fire. Remember the certainty and condescension that was used in crowing the accusations about financial mis-dealings? Remember the claims of a wealth of information and documentation that would convict a jury that 3ABN and Danny had been involved in a myriad of financial mis-dealings? Remember the claims of victory and financial gain when all the accusations were substantiated in court with all that documentation?
Yes, there is rejoicing . . . rejoicing that God is faithful to His word to keep His hand around the faithful even when the Fallen One is pulling out all the stops to cover up the truth and destroy them. The rejoicing is about God's great love and faithfulness . . . and not about "winning" . . .
So thats that. Congratulations to you Sam, Ian, Donna, Anyman, Junebug and all the others. Negotiation and settlements can be wonderful options in so many disputes. Tomorrow I will go down to Jamba and raise a carrot juice (laced with wheat grass) to the end of this portion of the saga.
Well, this is an interesting position . . . I am going to defend Mr. Matthews, a man I have had major disagreements with and continue to disagree on some points with. His posting is accurate, anyone with an ability to consider the content of his posting will see that it just makes plain sense. As I asked in another thread - Do you remember that chest thumping about how 3ABN and Danny were going down to all kinds of ruin because of the wealth of documentation that Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, and Fran ******** had about all those myriad of financial illegalities committed by 3ABN and Danny?
It is all moot now isn't it? There is no truth in their claims. I think the word that is being used is "exonerated" that would mean total admission by the Governing agency that there is nothing amiss . . . and if one reads the emails from Mr. R. Shelton carefully, there is no mention of payments, settlements . . . no, the agency has cleared them - period.
Back to Mr. Matthews. His post is well thought out and accurate and one need not be an attorney, if one has connection to attorneys that one can ask for interpretation. A good paralegal knows they are not to give legal advice - but can take questions from their clients back to the attorney, ask for response, and then take the response back to the client - that is not a broach of legal ethics. Mr. Matthews is merely sharing reasonable conjecture and making it clear that he does not do so as an attorney - but do you know if he did or didn't run it by an attorney to get some thoughts and ideas? Do you know what his experience with the law has been?
The point is this. This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
The value of Mr. Matthews statements is that the contribute to the dialogue here - they C O N T R I B U T E! Weighted in the balance his comments are substantive and lead to reasoned discussion about the issues at hand. He is willing to accept the truth and see how it fits into the changing picture. I appreciate and hope that Mr. Matthews will continue to contribute - even if I don't agree with him I appreciate his attempts at candor.
"Gregory,"
For someone who states that,
"NOTE: I am neither a licensed attorney nor am I trained in the law. My statements here are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion nor are they intended to be an expression of the legal merits of any litigation. Such opinions should be obtained from competent legal counsel which I am not,"
I would say that the extensive conclusions included in your post seems to indicate a rather definitive, expert, and terminal perspective on the course of the litigation between Shelton and Joy & Pickle. The way you contradict yourself leaves me confused. You affirm that:
1. the fact that "the Internal Revenue Service had cleared 3-ABN of financial misconduct as it relates to their area of purview... is a significant development that in my opinion has major consequences related to the lawsuit against Gailon and Bob, and others,"
2. that " this decision will have a major impact upon the litigation that 3-ABN has filed against Gailon and Bob. It does not affect, in my thinking certain parts of that litigation. However, I will suggest that it does affect some major parts and that it becomes much more likely that 3-ABN will prevail in regard to charges related to libel and defamation of character,"
3. that "this decision may have an impact on Gailon, Bob, Fran and Linda,"
4. that Bob...is failing to prevail. Success in litigation is not measured by inconsequential victories. Rather it is measured by whether or not one prevails. Bob appears to me to be outgunned and acting outside his area of expertise. I simply see him as failing to prevail." You also offer to Bob professional advice, by stating that "as such he may want to consider contacting the attorneys who represent 3-ABN and asking how his part in the lawsuit can be resolved without further litigation. This has been a huge emotional and financial drain on him and on his family. It may be time for him to attempt to reach a settlement and move on in the life of him and his family."
5. About Fran you state, "Fran: I have no substantial comment about her. She raised issues that were worthy of investigation. The IRS now appears to have ruled against her. She can be thankful that she has not been a defendant in the litigation."
6. and about Linda you affirm: "Linda: On the surface this may appear to some to have no effect on her. She can be thankful that she is not a defendant. She has raised issues that do not appear to be related to the IRS ruling. But, this ruling has a deeper meaning for her than what lies on the surface. This ruling is likely to bring the ongoing controversy to a close in major aspects sooner rather than later. As that time comes, Linda will need to move on with her life which is a life outside of the litigation and this controversy. She will have to make a life for herself that is unrelated to either Danny or 3-ABN. That time has been expected to come eventually. I will suggest that it will now come sooner."
The above statements seem to come from someone with extensive legal expertise, but the individual who makes such comments denies any training in the law, claims that his statements "are not intended to be an expression of a legal opinion," and also his statements are not "an expression of the legal merits of any litigation."
So, my question is: If these statements are MERE personal thoughts, and nothing more, 1. What is their value for those involved in the litigation ( I guess none!)?, and 2. why did you bother to write the message? (Too much free time?)
Eduard
Anyman,
All I can say here is Amen, and then add a double Amen! and a humble and heartfelt:
I couldn't have expressed any of this better than you just did. Truth is truth.
The Lord only is to be credited here and be praised, thanked and congratulated.
Each of us is individually accountable for what we do, how we act, react. and speak (every idle word) according to His truth and His revelation of it.
The only real question which remains is what will we as individuals do and say when confronted with the truth?
That remains to be seen, and is for God himself to judge.
In His Infinite Love and Grace,
Rosa
aka Cynthia Ann Conard
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And "anyman,"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
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And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies?
We have heard this argument before.
I think the first time it came up was when ASI was invited to negotiate between Linda and Danny/3ABN.
The argument does not hold up. If one assumes that the financial accusations against 3ABN are incorrect (and I do not believe that), that does not clear 3ABN of the other allegations that have been brought against it.
-
And \"anyman,\"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
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Edard:
As to the value of my post, that will be determined by the people who read it. Some may find value and others may not find anything of value. That is O.K. with me. It is simply out there for all to read and decide for themself whether or not it has value.
I also think that you understand the law well enough to know why I stated what I stated. There is a fine line between the practice of law and the freedom of speech that one has to comment on legal matters. I have written on legal matters for years. My writing on the Katcoff case has been mentioned in a book on that case that was co-written by a Constitutional attorney involved in the case and a recognized historian. I am very careful to walk the line between the practice of law and my freedom to comment on law and specific legal cases. I think that you knew exactly what I was doing and did not need to ask. But, that was your legal right just as I exercised mine and did not violate the law in doing so.
By the way, the extent to which I may have consulted with a liscensed attorney is beside the point. I stated what I wrote as my opinion as I was legally entitled to do and in a manner that remained outside of the practice of law.
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I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
What importance do you attach to the fact that anyman said the following to Eduard?
This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
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I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
What importance do you attach to the fact that anyman said the following to Eduard?
This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
The real question is what importance do you attach to that?
You are the one asking, and you are the one of those who appears to have either allowed or condoned Eduard's posts.
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And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies?
We have heard this argument before.
I think the first time it came up was when ASI was invited to negotiate between Linda and Danny/3ABN.
The argument does not hold up. If one assumes that the financial accusations against 3ABN are incorrect (and I do not believe that), that does not clear 3ABN of the other allegations that have been brought against it.
One thing at a time Artiste. Let's not evade the point of discussion, divert from the topic, or continue to make excuses or justifications about what is being discussed in this topic, or bury the issue under other things, please.
Let's try and deal with the topic of 3ABN's vindication regarding "financial accusations against 3ABN", as Christians, in an honest and upfront manner.
Not to much to ask of a sister , who professes to love the truth, is it?
I pray not.
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Interesting development. Frankly, I have never understood that case with IRS, since I do not live in the United States and have no knowledge of the American corporate tax system. Therefore that part has not been much of my concern, except listening to the arguments from both sides. So to me this does not carry as much weight as it does to some, since nothing of what I deem is really important has been settled yet.
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Interesting development. Frankly, I have never understood that case with IRS, since I do not live in the United States and have no knowledge of the American corporate tax system. Therefore that part has not been much of my concern, except listening to the arguments from both sides. So to me this does not carry as much weight as it does to some, since nothing of what I deem is really important has been settled yet.
Agreed, Johann, I feel the same.
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And \"anyman,\"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
"Child_of_God,"
What you believe is of no consequence. Are you a LANGUAGE PROFESSIONAL? I am, and as a professional I made an EVALUATION on his English language skills, and I have place him in that category. I have the credentials and the experience to make such a pronouncement. Do you? If not, then I suggest that you do not make pronouncements outside your area or expertise.
Eduard
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And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies?
We have heard this argument before.
I think the first time it came up was when ASI was invited to negotiate between Linda and Danny/3ABN.
The argument does not hold up. If one assumes that the financial accusations against 3ABN are incorrect (and I do not believe that), that does not clear 3ABN of the other allegations that have been brought against it.
One thing at a time Artiste. Let's not evade the point of discussion, divert from the topic, or continue to make excuses or justifications about what is being discussed in this topic, or bury the issue under other things, please.
Let's try and deal with the topic of 3ABN's vindication regarding "financial accusations against 3ABN", as Christians, in an honest and upfront manner.
Not to much to ask of a sister , who professes to love the truth, is it?
I pray not.
Rosa, Dear,
Maybe we should start at the beginning? How about asking Danny Shelton to provide evidence that Linda committed adultery, that he had the right to force her not to defend herself, and that he had the right to denounce her to the world and destroy her reputation without ANY EVIDENCE against her? One basic theological teaching is that ontology informs eschatology. In simple words, one can see the end by looking at the beginning. Considering the beginning of Danny Shelton's history with Linda, what do you think his end will be as a man who claims to be God's voice at this time?
Eduard
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And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies?
We have heard this argument before.
I think the first time it came up was when ASI was invited to negotiate between Linda and Danny/3ABN.
The argument does not hold up. If one assumes that the financial accusations against 3ABN are incorrect (and I do not believe that), that does not clear 3ABN of the other allegations that have been brought against it.
One thing at a time Artiste. Let's not evade the point of discussion, divert from the topic, or continue to make excuses or justifications about what is being discussed in this topic, or bury the issue under other things, please.
Let's try and deal with the topic of 3ABN's vindication regarding "financial accusations against 3ABN", as Christians, in an honest and upfront manner.
Not to much to ask of a sister , who professes to love the truth, is it?
I pray not.
Rosa, Dear,
Maybe we should start at the beginning? How about asking Danny Shelton to provide evidence that Linda committed adultery, that he had the right to force her not to defend herself, and that he had the right to denounce her to the world and destroy her reputation without ANY EVIDENCE against her? One basic theological teaching is that ontology informs eschatology. In simple words, one can see the end by looking at the beginning. Considering the beginning of Danny Shelton's history with Linda, what do you think his end will be as a man who claims to be God's voice at this time?
Eduard
Eduard,
Who says? Who says all the above even happened or happened in the way you describe? Think about it. The same people that made up the financial allegations have also been the ones to share the more "personal" information as you are describing above. Do you really think in light of recent events, that those people are credible with their stories?
This IRS thing is huge. They had over 100,000 pages of documents! No, of course no one (not even Franny) could or would doctor that volume of documents if they wanted to. There wouldn't have been enough time to do it or enough experts available so that opinion is totally out of the realm of reality and normal thinking.
We know the IRS is never looking to help someone. That's why everyone is afraid of them! They aren't about to spend mega bucks on an investigation and then perform it in a ram shod or less than thorough way. They want to find something to justify their expenses. The fact that we are hearing that they found nothing is about as big as it gets. Go read the accusations by Pickle and Joy over the last year and half. See how many financial accusations they made. NOT ONE OF THEM WAS ACCURATE! NOT ONE! This leads us back to faulty information they have received. We know by the pacer documents that the duo was fighting hard to get 3abn's financial documents to try and prove their allegations. That means they didn't have any documents, only heresay and word of mouth. Yes they thought the info they were getting was from someone "in the know" but that "someone" had reason to add, subtract, spin, twist and lie about the info they gave. Now they have all been caught in their own web of deceit.
You cannot spin, lie or wish this away. The money that people have been donating through the years has went exactly where it was supposed to go..to spread the 3 Angels Message. No one was "taking money from the till" as Joy spouted recently. No one was involved in "personal inurement" the phrase wore out by Pickle. No one was getting rich personally from 3abn but we were told the opposite at every opportunity. No one was making "shady" horse deals, real estate deals or lining their pockets with the money from little old ladies. ( I believe that was one of sister's eloquent accusations). None of these things happened unless you want to challenge one of the most powerful branches of government in the US. Whose findings are you going to believe? On one side we have some people that were bent on seeking revenge for what they, themselves, brought on. On the other hand we have a government entity that has turned 3abn & Danny Shelton, every which way but loose. Ask yourselves how does the IRS compare with the pickle, joy, Frans of the world? In fact, if I were one of the people that had called the IRS about 3abn, I would be afraid of repurcussions since they spent a whole lot of money on nothing. I wouldn't want to be in the callers shoes right now.
As far as the court case with Pickle and Joy what is left for their defense? All of their requests for financial records will surely be thrown out once the judge is given this information. I mean really, will the juge think that maybe Pickle and Joy can find something that the IRS did not? Hardly. So the only alternative defense would be all their immoral accusations. No federal US court is going to waste time on those kind of ridiculous arguments. Knowing also that all of those stories came from some of the same sources as the financial allegations.
I admit, I will be curious to see who comes to grips with these realities and who continues to be taken down the primrose path. There is such a difference between reality versus speculation, innuendo, heresay, gossip and lies. Most normal thinking reasonable people will realize if these people can be wrong on all of the different financial issues and accusations of such, the rest isn't holding much water. To continue to fight 3abn in court is a waste of time & money for all involved. A true christian will say " I have made many public ,false accusations and I was wrong and am deeply sorry". Even if the duo continue to fight on useless grounds, will we hear that apology for this one, huge issue? How can we not? They have been proven wrong. I believe they should be weeping bitter tears over the destruction they have caused and the people that have been hurt with their false allegations. If they do the opposite, spin, weave and twist these findings, that will tell me all I need to know about the motives of their hearts.
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That thing about the primrose path? You are on it I do believe.
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That thing about the primrose path? You are on it I do believe.
Agreed, sonshineonme.
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Most normal thinking reasonable people will realize if these people can be wrong on all of the different financial issues and accusations of such, the rest isn't holding much water.
This fallacious argument is brought out yet again.
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Must be another interesting story here about who these emails were sent to and how they came to be in your hands.
I hope the recipient as well as yourself asked permission to both pass them on, and to publish them.
[/quote]
Why, were they copywritten? And was it common law copywrite? Need my address for service of process?
Ready, willing and able. And I will report it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
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Must be another interesting story here about who these emails were sent to and how they came to be in your hands.
I hope the recipient as well as yourself asked permission to both pass them on, and to publish them.
Why, were they copywritten? And was it common law copywrite? Need my address for service of process?
Ready, willing and able. And I will report it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
[/quote]
Please get a grip on yourself, man! Get focussed!
I am not a litigant or attorney in your lawsuit.
I was simply making an observation and hoping that as a fellow human being and even a Christian, that you have some respect for the rights and privacy of others and have behaved in a courteous and Christian manner.
If I have to serve papers on you to get an answer to that simple thing then any attempts at open discussions on this forum whether between the different parties; or between your side and those with questions who are still reserving judgment, seem totally futile and a waste of time to even attempt..
I remain hopeful you will be able to address more important issues in this topic.
They need addressing.
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"As I asked in another thread - Do you remember that chest thumping about how 3ABN and Danny were going down to all kinds of ruin because of the wealth of documentation that Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, and Fran ******** had about all those myriad of financial illegalities committed by 3ABN and Danny?
It is all moot now isn't it? There is no truth in their claims. I think the word that is being used is "exonerated" that would mean total admission by the Governing agency that there is nothing amiss . . . and if one reads the emails from Mr. R. Shelton carefully, there is no mention of payments, settlements . . . no, the agency has cleared them - period." ANYMAN
So, where is the letter of exoneration?
And NO, it is not MOOT!!! EVIDENCE is EVIDENCE...the Law is the LAW. If the evidence demontrates that there was a failure to report key information to donors and that income constituted private inurement, especially while there was much ado about "self-sacrificing", the evidence, aka documentation, will not be MOOT.
OJ walks as a "free" man from a criminal case and lost his shirt...AND BOOK... to a civil case. I think we have discussed civil vs criminal standards before.
But, as in all else to do with 3ABN, the documentation normally tells a different story from the statements of the promoters. But, when was that different from any other "televangelist" self promoting cult?
Where is the letter of "EXONERATION"? I haven't seen it yet. When we do, I will comment further.
Wonder if this will be as elusive as the evidence against Linda Sue Shelton?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Why, were they copywritten? And was it common law copywrite? Need my address for service of process?
Ready, willing and able. And I will report it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
Please get a grip on yourself, man.
I am not a litigant or attorney in your lawsuit.
I was simply making an observation and hoping that as a fellow human being and even a Christian, that you have some respect for the rights and privacy of others and have behaved in a courteous and Christian manner.
If I have to serve papers on you to get an answer to that simple thing then any attempts at open discussions between different parties, or those with questions who are still reserving judgment, on this forum seem totally futile, and a waste of time.
I will not bother you further, but I will remain hopeful you will be able to address more important issues in this topic.
You are part of team that has already litigated and I see no "CHRISTIAN COURTESY" in evidence. If you wish to question the veracity of the e-mails you are free to do so, but with your comments were carefully staged innuendos.
Now, this is amazing!!! We do them the favor of advertising their foundation for elation, carefully kept under wraps for some unknown reason of dubious purpose, and now they want us to buy their "christain courtesy" claims.
For the record, your christianity is the chritianty of vipers...and we know where
those slithering critters originated from.
In case you are wondering, I share Eduard's disdain for hypocricy.
And be careful what you tout as it may not be as you think it is. It most certainly has none of the legal import you claim, but MAY have some psychological advantage in the battle for hearts and minds. As you can see, we will get the entire truth in time. AND THE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD.
Get the point, SAM!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Why, were they copywritten? And was it common law copywrite? Need my address for service of process?
Ready, willing and able. And I will report it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
Please get a grip on yourself, man.
I am not a litigant or attorney in your lawsuit.
I was simply making an observation and hoping that as a fellow human being and even a Christian, that you have some respect for the rights and privacy of others and have behaved in a courteous and Christian manner.
If I have to serve papers on you to get an answer to that simple thing then any attempts at open discussions between different parties, or those with questions who are still reserving judgment, on this forum seem totally futile, and a waste of time.
I will not bother you further, but I will remain hopeful you will be able to address more important issues in this topic.
You are part of team that has already litigated and I see no "CHRISTIAN COURTESY" in evidence. If you wish to question the veracity of the e-mails you are free to do so, but with your comments were carefully staged innuendos.
Now, this is amazing!!! We do them the favor of advertising their foundation for elation, carefully kept under wraps for some unknown reason of dubious purpose, and now they want us to buy their "christain courtesy" claims.
For the record, your christianity is the chritianty of vipers...and we know where
those slithering critters originated from.
In case you are wondering, I share Eduard's disdain for hypocricy.
And be careful what you tout as it may not be as you think it is. It most certainly has none of the legal import you claim, but MAY have some psychological advantage in the battle for hearts and minds. As you can see, we will get the entire truth in time. AND THE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD.
Get the point, SAM!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
:huh:
I am quite sure you can not even begin to understand how ridiculous and illogical your reaction is here, or how absurd the words and claims you posted sound to me.
I think it is sufficient to say, any benefit of the doubt I have tried to give you in regards to this topic and thread , you just threw out the window.
I'm sorry about that, and I'll leave it at that.
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Why, were they copywritten? And was it common law copywrite? Need my address for service of process?
Ready, willing and able. And I will report it!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUREPORTER
Please get a grip on yourself, man.
I am not a litigant or attorney in your lawsuit.
I was simply making an observation and hoping that as a fellow human being and even a Christian, that you have some respect for the rights and privacy of others and have behaved in a courteous and Christian manner.
If I have to serve papers on you to get an answer to that simple thing then any attempts at open discussions between different parties, or those with questions who are still reserving judgment, on this forum seem totally futile, and a waste of time.
I will not bother you further, but I will remain hopeful you will be able to address more important issues in this topic.
You are part of team that has already litigated and I see no "CHRISTIAN COURTESY" in evidence. If you wish to question the veracity of the e-mails you are free to do so, but with your comments were carefully staged innuendos.
Now, this is amazing!!! We do them the favor of advertising their foundation for elation, carefully kept under wraps for some unknown reason of dubious purpose, and now they want us to buy their "christain courtesy" claims.
For the record, your christianity is the chritianty of vipers...and we know where
those slithering critters originated from.
In case you are wondering, I share Eduard's disdain for hypocricy.
And be careful what you tout as it may not be as you think it is. It most certainly has none of the legal import you claim, but MAY have some psychological advantage in the battle for hearts and minds. As you can see, we will get the entire truth in time. AND THE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD.
Get the point, SAM!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
:huh:
I am quite sure you can not even begin to understand how ridiculous and illogical your reaction is here, or how absurd the words and claims you posted sound to me.
I think it is sufficient to say, any benefit of the doubt I have tried to give you in regards to this topic and thread , you just threw out the window.
I'm sorry about that, and I'll leave it at that.
Dear No sir:
Have I been mistaken as to your stand in this discussion? I don't think so and am sorry that our friend GAJ has reacted so badly to your questions. :dunno:
However (and the bolded sentence in the above quote causes me to wonder :huh:), if he is right in his reaction I am even more sorry that you were able to pull the wool over my eyes for so long, and perhaps of many others who thought as I did - that you were in 'sync' with the efforts to 'cleanse the 3ABN camp of those who have publically caused so much emotional and ministry damage to LS in her morally unethical, if not illegal, firing from the ministry she helped to found and so masterfully guided in the area of 'Mending Broken People.' Would you be so good as to clear up this question in my mind, kind Sir? :help:
GrammieT :TY:
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And \\\"anyman,\\\"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
\"Child_of_God,\"
What you believe is of no consequence. Are you a LANGUAGE PROFESSIONAL? I am, and as a professional I made an EVALUATION on his English language skills, and I have place him in that category. I have the credentials and the experience to make such a pronouncement. Do you? If not, then I suggest that you do not make pronouncements outside your area or expertise.
Eduard
I’m sorry, but last I heard we all have freedom to express our opinions in these United States. Those who would think themselves superior and educated are on the same level with me and everyone else in this world. That is what our Lord taught. In fact He chose His disciples from different walks of life and does so today. It does not depend upon our education or field of expertise. He chooses us by what He knows our hearts to be and whether or not we will obey and follow Him all the way.
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I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
What importance do you attach to the fact that anyman said the following to Eduard?
This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
What he said is what everyone who reads on this forum has been witness to. He just had the courage to face, so to speak, Eduard with the truth. I believe that to be very important. When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence.
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When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence.
Isn't this exactly what so many people have been saying for ever so long now? When Danny accused Linda publicly of 'spiritual adultery', and yet has never produced the evidence, should he not be rebuked publicly as well?
As you said "Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence."
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When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence.
Isn't this exactly what so many people have been saying for ever so long now? When Danny accused Linda publicly of 'spiritual adultery', and yet has never produced the evidence, should he not be rebuked publicly as well?
As you said "Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence."
I believe this has been said a thousand times but I will make it a thousand one.....just because evidence has not been produced publically does not mean it doesn't exist. More speculation on your side. In view of recent events I have to ask when will you learn?
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When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence.
Isn't this exactly what so many people have been saying for ever so long now? When Danny accused Linda publicly of 'spiritual adultery', and yet has never produced the evidence, should he not be rebuked publicly as well?
As you said "Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence."
I believe this has been said a thousand times but I will make it a thousand one.....just because evidence has not been produced publically does not mean it doesn't exist. More speculation on your side. In view of recent events I have to ask when will you learn?
With 3ABN that is exactly what it means. My evidence drawer is still empty and you have had the last opportunity to produce without an order of the court. One must conclude that Phone Records do not exist, that photos do not exist, that recordings so boldly spoken of do not exist, that the expensive watch does not exist, that the statements of witnesses do not exist, and we could go on for quite some time.
Now we are waiting for that "exoneration" letter???
Do you have anything to support the action against Linda? If you do, better dig and turn it over as the motion to compel is pending and we have all those e-mail claims from Walt and Danny Lee Shelton asserting there existence and NOW WE HAVE NOTHING TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR VERACITY!!!!
Your time is running out...you are fast reaching "scorched earth " defense as you have no ammo to fight on so the entire case now hinges on stopping us from getting the evidence that will sink your boat. Don't count on that strategy working as it will backfire when you have no evidence at trial.
ROLL IT OUT NOW or forever hold the drawer shut and face the reality...IT WAS ALL A SHAM TO GET RID OF THE OLD GREY MARE!!!
Waiting expectently, nearly two years later!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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I agree with you, Gailon, but maybe you could stop calling Linda the "old grey mare"...I don't think she looks like an old grey mare...maybe something more complimentary?
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I would agree . . . it seems that you would want to treat your pawns better than this . . .
I agree with you, Gailon, but maybe you could stop calling Linda the "old grey mare"...I don't think she looks like an old grey mare...maybe something more complimentary?
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And \\\"anyman,\\\"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
\"Child_of_God,\"
What you believe is of no consequence. Are you a LANGUAGE PROFESSIONAL? I am, and as a professional I made an EVALUATION on his English language skills, and I have place him in that category. I have the credentials and the experience to make such a pronouncement. Do you? If not, then I suggest that you do not make pronouncements outside your area or expertise.
Eduard
I’m sorry, but last I heard we all have freedom to express our opinions in these United States. Those who would think themselves superior and educated are on the same level with me and everyone else in this world. That is what our Lord taught. In fact He chose His disciples from different walks of life and does so today. It does not depend upon our education or field of expertise. He chooses us by what He knows our hearts to be and whether or not we will obey and follow Him all the way.
Child_of_God,
So, we are on the same level in our use of the English language? Well, this is interesting. Do you also perform surgery, fly stealth planes, teach in college, write prescriptions, perform the work of an attorney, command ships, and act as the secretary of state because "That is what our Lord taught"? Is that statement in the notebook bible you scribbled with your pencil? I checked, and I could not find those words in the numerous Bibles in various languages that rest on my bookshelves.
I guess you are already firm in your conviction that as a child-of-gd you are chosen to do anything you please, whether you have the education or the skills for that kind of work or not. You know, what you are claiming is not new to me. I hear such words all the time from the backwoods hicks who cannot even scribble their names on the ground.
Eduard
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And, if all the accusations that have been flung by Gailon Arthur Joy, Robert Pickle, Fran ********, and others in regards to the finances of 3ABN and/or Danny Shelton are baseless, groundless, without foundation . . . what does that portend in regards to their other accusations, insinuations, and outright lies?
We have heard this argument before.
I think the first time it came up was when ASI was invited to negotiate between Linda and Danny/3ABN.
The argument does not hold up. If one assumes that the financial accusations against 3ABN are incorrect (and I do not believe that), that does not clear 3ABN of the other allegations that have been brought against it.
One thing at a time Artiste. Let's not evade the point of discussion, divert from the topic, or continue to make excuses or justifications about what is being discussed in this topic, or bury the issue under other things, please.
Let's try and deal with the topic of 3ABN's vindication regarding "financial accusations against 3ABN", as Christians, in an honest and upfront manner.
Not to much to ask of a sister , who professes to love the truth, is it?
I pray not.
Rosa, Dear,
Maybe we should start at the beginning? How about asking Danny Shelton to provide evidence that Linda committed adultery, that he had the right to force her not to defend herself, and that he had the right to denounce her to the world and destroy her reputation without ANY EVIDENCE against her? One basic theological teaching is that ontology informs eschatology. In simple words, one can see the end by looking at the beginning. Considering the beginning of Danny Shelton's history with Linda, what do you think his end will be as a man who claims to be God's voice at this time?
Eduard
Eduard,
Who says? Who says all the above even happened or happened in the way you describe? Think about it. The same people that made up the financial allegations have also been the ones to share the more "personal" information as you are describing above. Do you really think in light of recent events, that those people are credible with their stories?
This IRS thing is huge. They had over 100,000 pages of documents! No, of course no one (not even Franny) could or would doctor that volume of documents if they wanted to. There wouldn't have been enough time to do it or enough experts available so that opinion is totally out of the realm of reality and normal thinking.
We know the IRS is never looking to help someone. That's why everyone is afraid of them! They aren't about to spend mega bucks on an investigation and then perform it in a ram shod or less than thorough way. They want to find something to justify their expenses. The fact that we are hearing that they found nothing is about as big as it gets. Go read the accusations by Pickle and Joy over the last year and half. See how many financial accusations they made. NOT ONE OF THEM WAS ACCURATE! NOT ONE! This leads us back to faulty information they have received. We know by the pacer documents that the duo was fighting hard to get 3abn's financial documents to try and prove their allegations. That means they didn't have any documents, only heresay and word of mouth. Yes they thought the info they were getting was from someone "in the know" but that "someone" had reason to add, subtract, spin, twist and lie about the info they gave. Now they have all been caught in their own web of deceit.
You cannot spin, lie or wish this away. The money that people have been donating through the years has went exactly where it was supposed to go..to spread the 3 Angels Message. No one was "taking money from the till" as Joy spouted recently. No one was involved in "personal inurement" the phrase wore out by Pickle. No one was getting rich personally from 3abn but we were told the opposite at every opportunity. No one was making "shady" horse deals, real estate deals or lining their pockets with the money from little old ladies. ( I believe that was one of sister's eloquent accusations). None of these things happened unless you want to challenge one of the most powerful branches of government in the US. Whose findings are you going to believe? On one side we have some people that were bent on seeking revenge for what they, themselves, brought on. On the other hand we have a government entity that has turned 3abn & Danny Shelton, every which way but loose. Ask yourselves how does the IRS compare with the pickle, joy, Frans of the world? In fact, if I were one of the people that had called the IRS about 3abn, I would be afraid of repurcussions since they spent a whole lot of money on nothing. I wouldn't want to be in the callers shoes right now.
As far as the court case with Pickle and Joy what is left for their defense? All of their requests for financial records will surely be thrown out once the judge is given this information. I mean really, will the juge think that maybe Pickle and Joy can find something that the IRS did not? Hardly. So the only alternative defense would be all their immoral accusations. No federal US court is going to waste time on those kind of ridiculous arguments. Knowing also that all of those stories came from some of the same sources as the financial allegations.
I admit, I will be curious to see who comes to grips with these realities and who continues to be taken down the primrose path. There is such a difference between reality versus speculation, innuendo, heresay, gossip and lies. Most normal thinking reasonable people will realize if these people can be wrong on all of the different financial issues and accusations of such, the rest isn't holding much water. To continue to fight 3abn in court is a waste of time & money for all involved. A true christian will say " I have made many public ,false accusations and I was wrong and am deeply sorry". Even if the duo continue to fight on useless grounds, will we hear that apology for this one, huge issue? How can we not? They have been proven wrong. I believe they should be weeping bitter tears over the destruction they have caused and the people that have been hurt with their false allegations. If they do the opposite, spin, weave and twist these findings, that will tell me all I need to know about the motives of their hearts.
So, "Sam,"
You are fully confident that nothing happened at 3ABN and with Danny Shelton. It is all in the imagination of some mean people who want to "destroy God's work," and hurt the "Gospel Ministry" and its "prophet," right? Well, I have to say, my Bible readings include many stories of evil people whom God allowed to reach the limit of their iniquity so that all could see that pride goes before the fall.
You think that you are entitled to your facts, right? Well, the last laugh is what counts, right? Are you going to have the last laugh? I leave you to your own hallucinations!
Eduard
edited for spelling
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I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
What importance do you attach to the fact that anyman said the following to Eduard?
This is a public forum and you have spent the past week running around these halls doing >N O T H I N G< but ridicule, disparage, malign, insult, condescend, patronize, defame, slander, smear, slur, vilify anyone and everyone who has stood by 3ABN and Danny Shelton.
What he said is what everyone who reads on this forum has been witness to. He just had the courage to face, so to speak, Eduard with the truth. I believe that to be very important. When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence.
"child_of_god,"
I also believe that the Lord has written that some of the worst sins even committed by men are acting hypocritically, deceiving others, pretendind to do God's work but insteadd doing the Devil's work, stealing God's money and using that money for personal purposes, hiding evil deeds in the darkness, and persecuting GOD'S PEOPLE. And if you allow me to quote you, "When someone commits sins publicly we are to rebuke. Those who stand by and say nothing only condone by their silence." All the sins I have mentioned above are PUBLIC, and need to be rebuked in public. Are you one of those who rebuke those sins in public or one of those who are accomplices to the sinner?
Those truly favored and protected by God don't need to be defended by men. Especially not by ELEVEN ATTORNEYS. God himself defends them. And if the work is indeed the Lord's, He will take care of it.
Eduard
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And \\\"anyman,\\\"
Do you want some tutoring in English? There are 40 million illiterate people in this country, and you are one of them. We can do it on-line! No charge!
Your friend,
Eduard
I do not believe Anyman to be illiterate. If he were it would not matter because it is not how one says something that is of any great importance. The important thing is what is said.
\"Child_of_God,\"
What you believe is of no consequence. Are you a LANGUAGE PROFESSIONAL? I am, and as a professional I made an EVALUATION on his English language skills, and I have place him in that category. I have the credentials and the experience to make such a pronouncement. Do you? If not, then I suggest that you do not make pronouncements outside your area or expertise.
Eduard
I’m sorry, but last I heard we all have freedom to express our opinions in these United States. Those who would think themselves superior and educated are on the same level with me and everyone else in this world. That is what our Lord taught. In fact He chose His disciples from different walks of life and does so today. It does not depend upon our education or field of expertise. He chooses us by what He knows our hearts to be and whether or not we will obey and follow Him all the way.
Child_of_God,
So, we are on the same level in our use of the English language? Well, this is interesting. Do you also perform surgery, fly stealth planes, teach in college, write prescriptions, perform the work of an attorney, command ships, and act as the secretary of state because "That is what our Lord taught"? Is that statement in the notebook bible you scribbled with your pencil? I checked, and I could not find those words in the numerous Bibles in various languages that rest on my bookshelves.
I guess you are already firm in your conviction that as a child-of-gd you are chosen to do anything you please, whether you have the education or the skills for that kind of work or not. You know, what you are claiming is not new to me. I hear such words all the time from the backwoods hicks who cannot even scribble their names on the ground.
Eduard
Christ "scribbled" in the dirt when He was writing the sins of those who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord didn't have a degree in languages but I'll bet that every accuser there were able to read their own sins in the sand. Pride goeth before a fall. A haughty spirit is sinful. Think on it.
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[b]Christ "scribbled" in the dirt when He was writing the sins of those who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord didn't have a degree in languages but I'll bet that every accuser there were able to read their own sins in the sand. Pride goeth before a fall. A haughty spirit is sinful. Think on it.
I always really liked this story. The only problem is the ones that use it the most frequently are always the ones with so much to correct in those that disagree with them.
Some just may think there is a haughty spirit in those that make such use and misuse out of it
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I won't comment about the IRS Criminal Investigation. I have not received any communication that this information is true, but if it is, I will rejoice along with others about the findings.
I have never desired to harm the ministry of 3ABN. I am elated that 3ABN is surviving and Thriving. That has always been my desire. I have always stated that, however, some have accused me of trying to destroy 3ABN. If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
This does not have anything to do with the trial between Bob, Gailon, Danny and 3ABN. I am not involved in that case as yet. If I am, at a future date, I will have to tell the truth about all of my findings and questions. I will tell the truth as I see it. If that makes me a Rumor Mongrel, as Stan has put forth, so be it. It does NOT, and has NEVER meant I want to destroy the ministry of 3ABN. Anyone assuming that does not know me very well.
Gregory;
I have no feelings of being "Lucky" to not be involved in this litigation between Bob, Gailon, Danny, & 3ABN. I do not feel lucky about it. I believe I clearly understand why. I am also not a member of the team of Bob and Gailon! However, I believe I agree with their findings thus far, and will help if I am needed in any way. I am here because of me. God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.
Of all people, Greg, you know that to be truth.
Thank you.
Fran -------- ( :ROFL: :TY: :dunno: I guess by now, this is common knowledge! :usa:)
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If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
Yes, you are right, Fran.
The questions remain and in more areas than just the financial.
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I won\'t comment about the IRS Criminal Investigation. I have not received any communication that this information is true, but if it is, I will rejoice along with others about the findings.
I have never desired to harm the ministry of 3ABN. I am elated that 3ABN is surviving and Thriving. That has always been my desire. I have always stated that, however, some have accused me of trying to destroy 3ABN. If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
This does not have anything to do with the trial between Bob, Gailon, Danny and 3ABN. I am not involved in that case as yet. If I am, at a future date, I will have to tell the truth about all of my findings and questions. I will tell the truth as I see it. If that makes me a Rumor Mongrel, as Stan has put forth, so be it. It does NOT, and has NEVER meant I want to destroy the ministry of 3ABN. Anyone assuming that does not know me very well.
Gregory;
I have no feelings of being \"Lucky\" to not be involved in this litigation between Bob, Gailon, Danny, & 3ABN. I do not feel lucky about it. I believe I clearly understand why. I am also not a member of the team of Bob and Gailon! However, I believe I agree with their findings thus far, and will help if I am needed in any way. I am here because of me. God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.
Of all people, Greg, you know that to be truth.
Thank you.
Fran -------- ( :ROFL: :TY: :dunno: I guess by now, this is common knowledge! :usa:)
What stands out in what you have said is that you didn’t just ask relevant questions but were actually making statements of fact, judgments and tons of speculation on how wrong you thought 3ABN to be. So why bring up your findings and questions again when the IRS has found them to be irrelevant. All of your speculation means absolutely nothing now because you were wrong.
I am having a hard time with your statement “God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.” Surely you do not believe God would give you false information and tell you to do something with it when it is completely alien to His character.
I am praying that you may see who you were really listening to because he is the one who wants to bring down those means such as 3ABN which takes the gospel to the whole world.
-
I won\'t comment about the IRS Criminal Investigation. I have not received any communication that this information is true, but if it is, I will rejoice along with others about the findings.
I have never desired to harm the ministry of 3ABN. I am elated that 3ABN is surviving and Thriving. That has always been my desire. I have always stated that, however, some have accused me of trying to destroy 3ABN. If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
This does not have anything to do with the trial between Bob, Gailon, Danny and 3ABN. I am not involved in that case as yet. If I am, at a future date, I will have to tell the truth about all of my findings and questions. I will tell the truth as I see it. If that makes me a Rumor Mongrel, as Stan has put forth, so be it. It does NOT, and has NEVER meant I want to destroy the ministry of 3ABN. Anyone assuming that does not know me very well.
Gregory;
I have no feelings of being \"Lucky\" to not be involved in this litigation between Bob, Gailon, Danny, & 3ABN. I do not feel lucky about it. I believe I clearly understand why. I am also not a member of the team of Bob and Gailon! However, I believe I agree with their findings thus far, and will help if I am needed in any way. I am here because of me. God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.
Of all people, Greg, you know that to be truth.
Thank you.
Fran -------- ( :ROFL: :TY: :dunno: I guess by now, this is common knowledge! :usa:)
What stands out in what you have said is that you didn’t just ask relevant questions but were actually making statements of fact, judgments and tons of speculation on how wrong you thought 3ABN to be. So why bring up your findings and questions again when the IRS has found them to be irrelevant. All of your speculation means absolutely nothing now because you were wrong.
I am having a hard time with your statement “God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.” Surely you do not believe God would give you false information and tell you to do something with it when it is completely alien to His character.
I am praying that you may see who you were really listening to because he is the one who wants to bring down those means such as 3ABN which takes the gospel to the whole world.
How dare you. Who do you think you are to say such things to Fran? Get a mirror, would you.
Before you start getting so carried away with your SELF-righteousness, do you want to give us the PROOF that it was false information? Numbers my friend DO NOT LIE. Facts ARE facts. I haven't seen any proof, and if you think that what one person might tell you is proof, nope.
You all are pushing this so far, I feel you are about to go over the cliff.
I can see why you would have a hard time with it.
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I won\'t comment about the IRS Criminal Investigation. I have not received any communication that this information is true, but if it is, I will rejoice along with others about the findings.
I have never desired to harm the ministry of 3ABN. I am elated that 3ABN is surviving and Thriving. That has always been my desire. I have always stated that, however, some have accused me of trying to destroy 3ABN. If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
This does not have anything to do with the trial between Bob, Gailon, Danny and 3ABN. I am not involved in that case as yet. If I am, at a future date, I will have to tell the truth about all of my findings and questions. I will tell the truth as I see it. If that makes me a Rumor Mongrel, as Stan has put forth, so be it. It does NOT, and has NEVER meant I want to destroy the ministry of 3ABN. Anyone assuming that does not know me very well.
Gregory;
I have no feelings of being \"Lucky\" to not be involved in this litigation between Bob, Gailon, Danny, & 3ABN. I do not feel lucky about it. I believe I clearly understand why. I am also not a member of the team of Bob and Gailon! However, I believe I agree with their findings thus far, and will help if I am needed in any way. I am here because of me. God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.
Of all people, Greg, you know that to be truth.
Thank you.
Fran -------- ( :ROFL: :TY: :dunno: I guess by now, this is common knowledge! :usa:)
What stands out in what you have said is that you didn’t just ask relevant questions but were actually making statements of fact, judgments and tons of speculation on how wrong you thought 3ABN to be. So why bring up your findings and questions again when the IRS has found them to be irrelevant. All of your speculation means absolutely nothing now because you were wrong.
I am having a hard time with your statement “God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.” Surely you do not believe God would give you false information and tell you to do something with it when it is completely alien to His character.
I am praying that you may see who you were really listening to because he is the one who wants to bring down those means such as 3ABN which takes the gospel to the whole world.
How dare you. Who do you think you are to say such things to Fran? Get a mirror, would you.
Before you start getting so carried away with your SELF-righteousness, do you want to give us the PROOF that it was false information? Numbers my friend DO NOT LIE. Facts ARE facts. I haven't seen any proof, and if you think that what one person might tell you is proof, nope.
You all are pushing this so far, I feel you are about to go over the cliff.
I can see why you would have a hard time with it.
AMEN.
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I won\\\'t comment about the IRS Criminal Investigation. I have not received any communication that this information is true, but if it is, I will rejoice along with others about the findings.
I have never desired to harm the ministry of 3ABN. I am elated that 3ABN is surviving and Thriving. That has always been my desire. I have always stated that, however, some have accused me of trying to destroy 3ABN. If my asking relevant questions about financial issues is wrong, so be it. The questions remain.
This does not have anything to do with the trial between Bob, Gailon, Danny and 3ABN. I am not involved in that case as yet. If I am, at a future date, I will have to tell the truth about all of my findings and questions. I will tell the truth as I see it. If that makes me a Rumor Mongrel, as Stan has put forth, so be it. It does NOT, and has NEVER meant I want to destroy the ministry of 3ABN. Anyone assuming that does not know me very well.
Gregory;
I have no feelings of being \\\"Lucky\\\" to not be involved in this litigation between Bob, Gailon, Danny, & 3ABN. I do not feel lucky about it. I believe I clearly understand why. I am also not a member of the team of Bob and Gailon! However, I believe I agree with their findings thus far, and will help if I am needed in any way. I am here because of me. God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.
Of all people, Greg, you know that to be truth.
Thank you.
Fran -------- ( :ROFL: :TY: :dunno: I guess by now, this is common knowledge! :usa:)
What stands out in what you have said is that you didn’t just ask relevant questions but were actually making statements of fact, judgments and tons of speculation on how wrong you thought 3ABN to be. So why bring up your findings and questions again when the IRS has found them to be irrelevant. All of your speculation means absolutely nothing now because you were wrong.
I am having a hard time with your statement “God gave me the information long before Bob and Gailon were ever heard of. I did what I felt God wanted me to do at that time.†Surely you do not believe God would give you false information and tell you to do something with it when it is completely alien to His character.
I am praying that you may see who you were really listening to because he is the one who wants to bring down those means such as 3ABN which takes the gospel to the whole world.
How dare you. Who do you think you are to say such things to Fran? Get a mirror, would you.
Before you start getting so carried away with your SELF-righteousness, do you want to give us the PROOF that it was false information? Numbers my friend DO NOT LIE. Facts ARE facts. I haven\'t seen any proof, and if you think that what one person might tell you is proof, nope.
You all are pushing this so far, I feel you are about to go over the cliff.
I can see why you would have a hard time with it.
AMEN.
Sunshineome,
I could not dare not to because I love and care about Fran. I am just one such as you and Fran on a journey with the Lord. Sometimes we may get side tracked or lost because we listen to others or our own sinful thoughts, but if we just lift up our eyes and reach out our hand towards the Lord he will take it and bring us back on to the narrow road to safety. I have not always made wise choices in my life but the Lord has always been faithful to me. He loves us and because of that love for me, I love my fellowman. I am just reaching out to Fran to have patience a little while longer for the proof instead of continuing on as she did. I do not want to see her used or abused anymore by the one or ones who have been feeding her wrong information.
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I am just reaching out to Fran to have patience a little while longer for the proof instead of continuing on as she did. I do not want to see her used or abused anymore by the one or ones who have been feeding her wrong information.
I highly doubt that this is the case with Fran...I can see your party line developing, however.
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Well, there you go. If Ronnie Shelton says it, it MUST be true... :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
I think I will wait for an official document from the IRS!!
You mean these e-mails from Thursday and Friday of last week:
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: audit
Hello friends,
I wanted to let you know that I got a call a few minutes ago and was told that the IRS has ended it's audit of both 3ABN and Danny Shelton's personal audit after nearly one year.
They called 3ABN's lawyers and ask them what 3ABN wanted them to do with the 13,000 pages of documents as they were closing the case! They could return the documents or destroy them.
THE VERDICT... Not one infraction, not one discrepancy, not one fine!
SQUEAKY CLEAN! Complete vindication!
We are not surprised however, God has been in control all the time! He has foiled another attack by the adversary on one of His greatest ministries!
Blessings,
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shelton
To:
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:32 PM
Subject: Audit of 3ABN
Hello friends,
I got another update about the number of 3ABN documents that was examined by the IRS. I told you wrong last night. It's not 13,000.,, The lawyers are saying .. OVER 100,000.
Praise the Lord!
Blessings,
Ron
We know that is what the elation seems to be about but the content remains
un substantiated. 3ABN itself remains silent on such an important issue. But then
maybe they are saving if for the fireworks on Thursday Night Live 3ABN Today. The US Attorney's office also remains silent. Someone will break one way or the other in time.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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If past experiences had shown us that a word from a Shelton brother always is the truth, then it would have been easy to accept this news as truth
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So far the much awaited news from DS doesn't seem to be coming quickly. I am hoping to see them produce an official document backing their claims.
Something that bolsters their claim of not one infraction. The wordings of their apologies I have seen and ours can be stretched to claim the IRS officially apologised to you. It goes along the lines of we are sorry you made us slap you and this time consuming investigation has come to an end. The IRS does not get into criminal investigations without a strong reason. The reason has to be more than a complaint from a disgruntled Anti- 3ABN .
I don't think we will see anything much except 3ABN and DS vouching for the character and honesty of 3ABN and DS.
Those that back DS will say see, Reliable source has cleared our guy of any wrong doing. Maybe that is why they don't allow people to sit on their own juries.
Those anti 3ABN and DS as it exists today will never take the word of a 3ABN Supporter/family member
I doubt that a signed, notarized document stating We are Sorry from the IRS and you have not one infraction ,you are squeaky clean will convine many that there hasn't been something going on under the table type thing.
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Hey - I think you have hit on a great way for CNN to cut costs!! Why bother to send reporters out to actually OBSERVE and REPORT on the news? They could just obtain the story TIPS, report a few tantalizing TIDBITS and then simply allow the viewers to...DISCERN...what actually happened...!
All of you have been given the truth all along from those who have defended Dannny Shelton and 3ABN and sadly none of you could discern that either.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: So now we are supposed to discern the news?
"Breaking news! Today in an Asian country there are people mourning over the thing that happened there. There are other people celebrating. And a result prices have gone up on the product. Yet, in an African country prices remained steady on the other product and the populace are showing indifference to the thing that happened in the Asian country."
"What happened in which Asian country, and what is the product?"
"Huh? You don't know? Obviously you don't know how to discern the news."
-
huh???
Does anyone else feel like they just got off a merry-go-round??
There has been much speculation on the Internet over the past 48 hours in regard to some major development that has taken place that has proclaimed 3-ABN to be clean, whatever that means. That is the issue: No one knows exactly what is supposed to have happened. In a real way anything that I can say about it is only speculative.
I have made attempts to find out what is going on yesterday and today. My attempts have failed. I do not have any authorative knowledge. In some cases I have not been able to talk to the individual I had attempted to contact. In other cases no response was given to me.
I was able to discuss some of this speculation with a SDA Attorney, this morning, who attends the same church I attend. [NOTE: For those who like to speculate, this was not the female attorney that some of you think has been highly involved.] My comments here will reflect my thinking as well as some of the comments made to me by that attorney.
The thinking of people who have talked to me about what is being said on the Internet, as well as how certain Internet posts have been understood is that this major development involved the Internal Revenue Service alleged investigation of 3-ABN. While that may be accurate, it is also possible that this alleged development involves something not related in any way to the IRS. As many seem to think that it does involve the IRS, I am going to comment on this alleged development from that standpoint.
First, I have been told that there could be several valid reasons why a major development has occurred and the specifics have not been published at this point. I do not think that there is any value in speculating on possible reasons and therefore I am not going to comment further on this point.
I think that it would be well to consider the approach that the Internal Revenue Service often takes in an investigation. While it may launch a criminal investigation [NOTE: I am not alleging that a criminal investigation has been launched against 3-ABN.] it often prefers to change the criminal investigation to a civil case. It will often prefer to allow a civil case to become a negotiated settlement of the issues. Once that settlement has been reached the organization is given a clean bill of health as all questions are resolved.
The settlement agreement between the IRS and the organization may be available to the general public. Or, it may not be made available to the general public and it becomes a confidential document that is restricted in its distribution. So, if the IRS and 3-ABN have reached a settlement agreement, is it now, or will it become, a public document available to the general public? [NOTE: Again, I do not make any claim as to whether or not the IRS has investigated 3-ABN.]
If this major development involves a decision by the IRS in regard to 3-ABN, and it may not, in my opinion the following are the possibilities:
1) It is possible that the IRS has determined that 3-ABN has done nothing that warrants either criminal or civil sanctions.
If this is the fact, this is a major development that is likely to have a major effect in the ongoing civil litigation. I am not going to comment further on this at this time. But, I will suggest that the importance of a ruling of this nature cannot be underestimated.
2) It is possible that the IRS has determined that criminal action is not warranted, but civil action will occur.
This could be a significant development. But, it would be important in essence saying that mistakes were made but they were mistakes of ignorance and not of criminal intent.
3) It is possible that the IRS has determined that neither criminal nor civil action is warranted. Rather a settlement agreement took place.
This would in essence be a statement to the fact that while mistakes may have made they were simple mistakes more of a type than can be commonly be made as people fill out the complex IRS documents. In addition, it is likely that the settlement agreement may not allege that mistakes were actually made. Rather, it may be a simple statement that without acknowledging any fault the IRS and 3-ABN have settled these issues. A settlement agreement may not be used to assert proof of wrong doing. It may be nothing more than an agreement that resolves the issues.
So, where are we at this point in time? We are not at any place where a definitive statement can be made. For possibly valid reasons those with knowledge are not telling us what has happened. They are telling us to wait and see. Are they blowing wind? I do not think so. I think that a major development has happened. I do not know what it is. My post here is speculative. I am simply waiting for further developments which I hope will tell us what has happened.
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Well, there you go. If Ronnie Shelton says it, it MUST be true... :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
I think I will wait for an official document from the IRS!!
I'll join with you in that Snoopy.
One would think that if all this 'spin' is really true, they'd have been flying the letter from the flag pole by now.
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huh???
Does anyone else feel like they just got off a merry-go-round??
My post here is speculative. I am simply waiting for further developments which I hope will tell us what has happened.
Snoopy,
Like I said in a message to Gregory before, it seems that he has too much time on his hands. It appears that in his interpretation the word "speculative" means something close to "unfounded, reckless, and completely removed from the facts assumptions." I admire his excited imagination (Or maybe his message is something else?).
Eduard
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Edited to separare original post from quoted post.
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Eduard:
For a person of your depth of understanding of the English language I would think that you would be aware that most English words have multiple meanings. That is clearly true for the word "speculates" and its cognates. While I would not presume to teach you, for those who may be enamored with your fluency in language I will provide some accepted meanings that you have ignored:
1) To consider a subject or idea.
2) Contemplation of a profound nature.
3) Inference based on incomplete evidence.
In further consideration of the word "speculate" the implication is that there has been an orderly process of reasoning which has been based upon incomplete evidence. In view of this it can hardly be said that what I have said is " . . . close to 'unfounded, reckless, and completely removed from the facts assumptions.'" If anyone has an excited imagination over my post, it appears to be you. Oh, well, understanding that you very well may have to much time on your hands that is otherwise not put to useful purpose I can understand why my post might excite you. However, I would encourage you to sublimate your excitation if that is needed.
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And now back to central theme of this particular thread...Did you (or anyone else other than a Shelton) hear the news???
How profound that here we are a week later and still no "formal statement", just the commentary of a dear brother stating that Danny has been "EXONERATED".
I am sticking with the evidence until the US Attorney speaks and gives clarity that exceeds my limited vision, but it is getting better all the time as we SQUEEZE evidence out of them.
Never have so few wanted to produce so little for so long!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy