Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: reddogs on June 03, 2008, 10:46:46 AM
-
The news out of 3ABN seems so familiar, it kind of reminds me of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and their Praise the Lord minitries. Yes that Jim Baker, American televangelist, a former Assemblies of God minister, and a former host (with his then-wife Tammy Faye Bakker) of The PTL Club, a popular evangelical Christian television program. A sex scandal led to his resignation from the ministry. Subsequent revelations of accounting fraud brought about his imprisonment and divorce and effectively ended his time in the larger public eye. My aunt watched and loved them and stood by them no matter what, she would not allow that anything they did could possibly be illegal or that Jim could betray Tammy Faye in any way. Then you have Jimmy Swaggart, tremoundous speaker, oh he was the best preacher this side of the Mississippi and no one could say anything bad about him in my aunts house, until his downfall, again with adultery. Then there was Oral Roberts, a neo-Pentecostal televangelist who started out as a traveling faith healer. He was also a leader in the charismatic movement and a powerful orator. My grandmother never missed a show, until he threathened to go up in his tower at the University and announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home" (a euphemism for death)....it was all too much to believe....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart
They became like a god to many people who followed their every word and declaration, more important than anything else in their lives, and they couldnt let them go no matter what they did or said, and these are good Christians that were watching the shows or sending in donations and going to their crusades and big events. Are Adventist doing the same thing with 3ABN and Danny and Linda, I wonder.........
-
Might there be a good reason to wonder?
-
Is there also a wikipedia on Danny Shelton?
-
Is there also a wikipedia on Danny Shelton?
Not under his name yet, but the saga is there.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3ABN
-
Will someone be starting one on Danny?
-
WOW! Linda gets billing as a co-founder there. Wonder how long that will last?
Is there also a wikipedia on Danny Shelton?
Not under his name yet, but the saga is there.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3ABN
-
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
-
If you can't name one such false accusation, you just lied.
By your reasoning, if they had have sued, that would prove that the allegations against them were lies even when they weren't.
-
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
A little early to be making that claim, huh, Donna? If I remember correctly, the above televangelists claimed that their accusers were false at first; until the revealed facts made that impossible. Maybe they didn't sue because they had better legal advice--or didn't have someone who would foot the bill for them?? :scratch:
In this case, the accusers have been accused of making false accusations, just as 3abn has been accused of the various things that Pickle and Joy have accused them of. Being accused nor being sued "proves" anything. Making public all the facts will tell whether the accusations are false or not.
Scratsmom
:hamster:
-
Everyone can talk about this until they are blue in the face, puffing smoke everywhere because they are all huffed up. It won't change the FACTS.
Donna is correct. :goodpost: If you were being accused and it was true information, would you go to court over it and sue the person accusing you? It makes perfect sense that Danny would go to court because folks--what Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy say ISN'T TRUE. It is a plain and simple fact. You can accuse Danny and 3ABN all you want but you will get nowhere with it--because the truth doesn't change.
So what folks will want to do who are reading these forums is check PACER documents as they become available. They will tell the truth of what is happening in court. Don't rely on what mere people are saying but check it out for yourself. And when you do see what is said to be "documents" make sure you are seeing the full and complete document and not just part of it.
Or folks can just wait until the verdict arrives from the Judge. It shouldn't be too much longer.
-
Everyone can talk about this until they are blue in the face, puffing smoke everywhere because they are all huffed up. It won't change the FACTS.
Donna is correct. :goodpost: If you were being accused and it was true information, would you go to court over it and sue the person accusing you? It makes perfect sense that Danny would go to court because folks--what Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy say ISN'T TRUE. It is a plain and simple fact. You can accuse Danny and 3ABN all you want but you will get nowhere with it--because the truth doesn't change.
So what folks will want to do who are reading these forums is check PACER documents as they become available. They will tell the truth of what is happening in court. Don't rely on what mere people are saying but check it out for yourself. And when you do see what is said to be "documents" make sure you are seeing the full and complete document and not just part of it.
Or folks can just wait until the verdict arrives from the Judge. It shouldn't be too much longer.
How do you know that what Bob and Gailon are saying isn't true, Junebug? I can tell you that at least some of what they're saying IS true, and I know from personal experience.
You are correct when you say truth and facts don't change. The question is: Will you be willing to accept the truth when it is finally revealed without room for excuse or rebuttal? Time will tell.
-
Interesting notion Donna. So if a person is sued for defamation you maintain that they must be assumed guilty? What if I sue you? Should the world assume you are guilty because I sued? I could be some malicious jerk with lots of money who wants to drive you into bancruptcy by keeping you in court for years when you can't afford it.
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
-
What I said has nothing to do with how you chose to take it............to each his own.
Interesting notion Donna. So if a person is sued for defamation you maintain that they must be assumed guilty? What if I sue you? Should the world assume you are guilty because I sued? I could be some malicious jerk with lots of money who wants to drive you into bancruptcy by keeping you in court for years when you can't afford it.
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
-
Everyone can talk about this until they are blue in the face, puffing smoke everywhere because they are all huffed up. It won't change the FACTS.
Junebug/Donna/Ian, I'm glad that you've finally noted that one can't change the facts. :TY: Some people are just slow learners, when it comes to this point.
-
When did any one of us say different?
-
Is there also a wikipedia on Danny Shelton?
Not under his name yet, but the saga is there.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3ABN
I notice that in the 3ABN table of contents, under "Controversies and criticism", Linda Shelton is featured prominently.
-
Everyone can talk about this until they are blue in the face, puffing smoke everywhere because they are all huffed up. It won't change the FACTS.
Donna is correct. :goodpost: If you were being accused and it was true information, would you go to court over it and sue the person accusing you? It makes perfect sense that Danny would go to court because folks--what Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy say ISN'T TRUE. It is a plain and simple fact. You can accuse Danny and 3ABN all you want but you will get nowhere with it--because the truth doesn't change.
So what folks will want to do who are reading these forums is check PACER documents as they become available. They will tell the truth of what is happening in court. Don't rely on what mere people are saying but check it out for yourself. And when you do see what is said to be "documents" make sure you are seeing the full and complete document and not just part of it.
Or folks can just wait until the verdict arrives from the Judge. It shouldn't be too much longer.
Junebug:
Thanks for your patronizing advice. FOLKS here, who might be much smarter than you are, and who (unlike you) have the intellectual aptitude to evaluate facts have verified the evidence and have found that the ACCUZATIONS against Danny Shelton are TRUE. And FACTS have been repeated AD NAUSEAM on this and other forums, PROVING BEYOND DOUBT that Danny Shelton is a liar, and a pervert. Of course, we are waiting for the verdict from the judge because we want to read with satisfaction that JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED. And even if justice is not served in the court, Danny Shelton is FINISHED. His TELEVANGELIST reputation is so badly damaged that he will never recover from the damage. Even if he sues THE WHOLE WORLD and wins, he will not come out clean. He is damaged beyond repair.
Danny Shelton has accused Linda of adultery, but he has never provided evidence for his accuzation. If you have the evidence, please, provide it here, NOW.
Danny Shelton has forced Linda to sign a document in which she bound herself to hide the truth about 3ABN and all the dark business there, including her removal from her position. If he was clean, why did he force her to sign such an UGLY document preventing her from defending herself and her reputation?
Danny Shelton has made a fraudulent real estate transaction for which there is clear evidence. What do you have to say about this matter?
Danny Shelton has tried to keep all the court proceedings under wrap. If he is innocent, why does not want people to know about his actions? Innocent people don't try to hide. They like, and they want people to know the truth. What do you have to say about his attempt to HIDE THE TRUTH?
You, Donna, and Ian should stop posting your RUBBISH on this forum. All three of you are LIERS and DECEIVERS. You are hiding behind smoke screens and false identities because you cannot afford to let others know who you are, and because all you can do is to keep trying to deceive people about the TRUTH concerning Danny Shelton.
Someone, please, compose a REQUIEM for Danny Shelton.
Eduard
-
The news out of 3ABN seems so familiar, it kind of reminds me of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and their Praise the Lord minitries. Yes that Jim Baker, American televangelist, a former Assemblies of God minister, and a former host (with his then-wife Tammy Faye Bakker) of The PTL Club, a popular evangelical Christian television program. A sex scandal led to his resignation from the ministry. Subsequent revelations of accounting fraud brought about his imprisonment and divorce and effectively ended his time in the larger public eye. My aunt watched and loved them and stood by them no matter what, she would not allow that anything they did could possibly be illegal or that Jim could betray Tammy Faye in any way. Then you have Jimmy Swaggart, tremoundous speaker, oh he was the best preacher this side of the Mississippi and no one could say anything bad about him in my aunts house, until his downfall, again with adultery. Then there was Oral Roberts, a neo-Pentecostal televangelist who started out as a traveling faith healer. He was also a leader in the charismatic movement and a powerful orator. My grandmother never missed a show, until he threathened to go up in his tower at the University and announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home" (a euphemism for death)....it was all too much to believe....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart
They became like a god to many people who followed their every word and declaration, more important than anything else in their lives, and they couldnt let them go no matter what they did or said, and these are good Christians that were watching the shows or sending in donations and going to their crusades and big events. Are Adventist doing the same thing with 3ABN and Danny and Linda, I wonder.........
Like I said, my Aunt and Granny would never let anyone say that their favorite televangelist was in error or had committed any sin, till they were taken out in handcuffs or in shame...
It looks like for some Adventist, thats what it will take for them to see what televangelist gods they have put before themselves who are just humans, with all the frailties that come with it.......
-
The news out of 3ABN seems so familiar, it kind of reminds me of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and their Praise the Lord minitries. Yes that Jim Baker, American televangelist, a former Assemblies of God minister, and a former host (with his then-wife Tammy Faye Bakker) of The PTL Club, a popular evangelical Christian television program. A sex scandal led to his resignation from the ministry. Subsequent revelations of accounting fraud brought about his imprisonment and divorce and effectively ended his time in the larger public eye. My aunt watched and loved them and stood by them no matter what, she would not allow that anything they did could possibly be illegal or that Jim could betray Tammy Faye in any way. Then you have Jimmy Swaggart, tremoundous speaker, oh he was the best preacher this side of the Mississippi and no one could say anything bad about him in my aunts house, until his downfall, again with adultery. Then there was Oral Roberts, a neo-Pentecostal televangelist who started out as a traveling faith healer. He was also a leader in the charismatic movement and a powerful orator. My grandmother never missed a show, until he threathened to go up in his tower at the University and announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home" (a euphemism for death)....it was all too much to believe....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart
They became like a god to many people who followed their every word and declaration, more important than anything else in their lives, and they couldnt let them go no matter what they did or said, and these are good Christians that were watching the shows or sending in donations and going to their crusades and big events. Are Adventist doing the same thing with 3ABN and Danny and Linda, I wonder.........
Like I said, my Aunt and Granny would never let anyone say that their favorite televangelist was in error or had committed any sin, till they were taken out in handcuffs or in shame...
It looks like for some Adventist, thats what it will take for them to see what televangelist gods they have put before themselves who are just humans, with all the frailties that come with it.......
None is perfect, no not one, except Christ, and I have heard no one proclaiming any at 3ABN are perfect or sinless, or that they are gods....
To compare people here to your Granny and Aunt would of course be assuming that the accused in this case are in fact in error or sin and those defending them are blind and do not bother to diligently seek out the truth and facts in the situations for themselves.
The other side of the coin is those who served God and have always been attacked, and falsely accused. The bible is full of examples of such. Satan is angry and he is at war with the remnant of her(the churches) seed. Those who keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy.. Rev 12, 14 and 19:10 are key texts when it comes to our Adventist faith and what is at the root of Controversy...
They also reveal who is the accuser of the brethren and from the beginning in Genensis God said their would be emnity between his seed and her seed...
I personally see those at 3ABN as being up on the wall and sounding the alarm, and being repairers of the breach as we are called to do, and yet they are under constant attack and criticism by most here. I defend them where I can so they can keep doing that good work.
I always feel sorry for Nehemiah when I read how he had to build the wall with a sword in one hand and how he kept having to come down off the wall to deal with problems, Ellen white uses that as an example and says to not allow ourselves to be distracted from the work like this, and to let others help where they can. Right or wrong I figure I am helping in a small way to allow 3abn to continue with their mission and not be overwhelmed or distracted by their enemies.
Jesus is coming again, the world needs to know how soon and how to be prepared.
My 2 cents..
Late edit: corrected identified typos and added clarification to prevent confusion as much as is possible. :)
-
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
Begging your pardon, Donna, but that was the allegation regarding Jim and Tammy until investigators made it untenable. They even brought in Ephraim Zimbalist Jr, to plead their case only to find himself scourged as a result of his failed effort at exoneration. Yes, failed as the evidence weighed heavilly against the founder!!!
Let me also point out that if the evidence supports your illustrious leader, why is it not available for all, including Linda Shelton and the other supporters, to see???
Summary, your assertions are like a seive...full of holes and unsubstantive...get the evidence and bring it up to the Mountain top...or we will eventually have to make you produce it. Looking forward to that evidence that we are all wet??? In the interim, consider yourself irrelevant...Until you get your subpoena...then you must put the evidence where your mouth is or face the humiliation of exposure!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
one GREAT BIG difference here. Oral Roberts, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert did not sue their accusers because they were guilty of the accusations made against them. Danny Shelton and 3ABN did sue because their accusers have made false and defamitory accusations.
Begging your pardon, Donna, but that was the allegation regarding Jim and Tammy until investigators made it untenable. They even brought in Ephraim Zimbalist Jr, to plead their case only to find himself scourged as a result of his failed effort at exoneration. Yes, failed as the evidence weighed heavilly against the founder!!!
Let me also point out that if the evidence supports your illustrious leader, why is it not available for all, including Linda Shelton and the other supporters, to see???
Summary, your assertions are like a seive...full of holes and unsubstantive...get the evidence and bring it up to the Mountain top...or we will eventually have to make you produce it. Looking forward to that evidence that we are all wet??? In the interim, consider yourself irrelevant...Until you get your subpoena...then you must put the evidence where your mouth is or face the humiliation of exposure!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
hmmmm....
I've always liked this passage, don't you?
2Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Seems to me you'll get your evidence in due time according to due process, and patience would be a good thing...
But since my Mama is irrelevant to you for now, maybe I should just grab her and her shawl while I can and flee the country...
:ROFL:
-
There is a post on 3ABN Defend that talks about these videos. It seems to be a Sam/Ian group. So far there seems to be only 4 posters at the most. It could very possibly be only 2.
--- In 3abnDefended@yahoogroups.com, "sammy39377dl" sammy39377dl@... wrote:
"I see that Mr. Robert Pickle has made some youtube video's trying to bring dishonor to God's Name and to discredit 3ABN.
Folks, what Mr. Pickle is saying is not truthful. Before you believe what he says, check it out. You can check with 3ABN by e-mailing them at this link:
http://www.3abn.org/contact_email.cfm
You will find the truth from kind Christian loving people who work there. I'm sorry that Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy seem to have such a hatred for God's work. They must hate the Bible and the truth in it. In fact we are told when people do these kinds of things; it is as if they were doing it to the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder if they have thought of this."
Sammy
Sammy;
I read your statement above. Mr. Bob Pickle is not trying to destroy 3ABN. You have not spoken the truth! 3ABN keeps saying this, but they cannot see that the problems are NOT with 3ABN at all.
Did you see all 12 videos? I never heard one word about destroying 3ABN. Instead, he cited issues of circumstances about persons in particular. He cited real and serious matters that need to be dealt with.
Mr. Bob Pickle was a pastor in the past. He has always done his best to keep asking about things to make sure he has a clear understanding about any given situation. Then he gets affidavits, sworn and signed by the witness of any such activity. I know!
Since it is Danny Shelton and 3ABN that are suing their brothers in Christ; Brother Gailon Joy and Brother Bob Pickle are only truthfully defending themselves for the trial.
THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A TRUE STORY ABOUT SAMMY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM!
Now, I ask you Sammy, If I heard you were a male Chippendale Stripper in your spare time, and had documents and pictures proving it, but still felt I needed to confront you face to face, what would your answer be to me. Probably you would deny any such a thing and accuse me of trying to destroy you, right?
So after you deny it, I presented copies of the pictures, the credit card receipt charges for your costumes, and for overnight partners for the night. What would you say then?
Most people would see that they had been caught and confess that this is a deep dark secret addiction that you have not gained victory over as yet. We would pray and I would try to become a watchdog for you to help you overcome.
FALSE STORY OVER!
This has not been the way things have happened with some at 3ABN. The people continue to deny things when there is documented evidence. Why?
You each will have to figure that one out all on your own.
Sam you have accused me of making false statements too. I have court documents stating clearly what I am talking about, yet the facts continue to be denied.
If someone is calling 3ABN with questions, they will get a song and dance. For about 1/4th of the evidence that you yourself can read, go to save-3ABN.com. Then make your decision. No one can base fact on one opinion only. Be fair and hear BOTH sides BEFORE you decide.
There is enough for serious concern! Not about 3ABN, but about certain employees and board members of 3ABN.
I pray daily for 3ABN! I not only want it to survive, but to thrive. We need 3ABN to continue spreading the gospel to the world. There are just some things that need to change.
Please stop saying we are trying to destroy 3ABN when that is a lie.
Thank you for your post. I will be answering further.
Fran
-
Another;
More Youtube Videos
"sammy39377dl" <sammy39377dl@...>sammy39377dl Mon May 26, 2008 3:06 pm
Mr. Pickle now has 11 different youtube videos made to try to bring forth to the public accusations and innuendo. Notice how below these video's it has a section for comments by the public. Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy have disabled this feature so that no one can comment that these videos are based on nothing but opinion.
This ought to prove right there that they are AFRAID people will speak up against what they are saying and to let them know they (Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy) are not truthful. When men try to bring discredit to Christian programming such as 3ABN, and they do not allow the truth to be posted, showing and proving they are wrong in their assumptions, they will find they are working on the wrong side.
Also the timing of putting these video's out for the public to see was just as a 3-day holiday began. You can see how calculating these evil men are.
But praise the Lord--He will overrule what they are trying to do. The upcoming Ten Commandments week-end will be a total success for the truths sake. God's Name will be glorified.
Truth will triumph!!
-
Now, Ian, do you pre-suppose that I buy into the premise that you never use the Donna name to post? If you pick up her laptop and sign on, would you not be posting as Donna? One thing is sure, there is no reason to grab a shawl and your Mom and run...this is your moment to give us all that relevant, and irrelevant(if you wish), evidence. Now, just so we will know in advance, will it be "confidential" (See Confidentiality Order)?
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
-
Bellicosity . . . and I am going to guess that should you, you are going to be disappointed, angry, and out of a few bucks that it cost you to waste your time. Confusing - oh well.
Now, Ian, do you pre-suppose that I buy into the premise that you never use the Donna name to post? If you pick up her laptop and sign on, would you not be posting as Donna? One thing is sure, there is no reason to grab a shawl and your Mom and run...this is your moment to give us all that relevant, and irrelevant(if you wish), evidence. Now, just so we will know in advance, will it be "confidential" (See Confidentiality Order)?
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
-
Bellicosity . . . and I am going to guess that should you, you are going to be disappointed, angry, and out of a few bucks that it cost you to waste your time. Confusing - oh well.
Now, Ian, do you pre-suppose that I buy into the premise that you never use the Donna name to post? If you pick up her laptop and sign on, would you not be posting as Donna? One thing is sure, there is no reason to grab a shawl and your Mom and run...this is your moment to give us all that relevant, and irrelevant(if you wish), evidence. Now, just so we will know in advance, will it be "confidential" (See Confidentiality Order)?
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
I have noticed that you and your group have had plenty to say this last year about "threats" from 3abn and "Danny can't sue everyone" and "how unchristian" yada yada.... Looks to me like you use threats against anyone that has a different view of this topic than you do. You can't post an answer to anyone on the "other side" without throwing in your threat of calling them into court. You will look rather foolish trying to question someone who has no connection with 3abn and has done nothing but present facts. Unlike your side who has defamed and slandered. There is no comparison and your threats are foolish.
-
Dear, dear me, SAM...this is simply discovery to determine just what basis she has for being so contrary to what we understand to be the real history? No-one is suing her, just asking her to put the evidence where the mouth is....literally!!!
No threat!!! And besides, wouldn't she be quite happy to get all the evidence out there for the world to see? She should be proud that she is being asked to share the facts with us, if there are any?
If not, well it will be a waste of time, but somehow, I think this will prove to be quite fruitful!!! In fact, SURPRISINGLY SO!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
-
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
[/quote]
I have noticed that you and your group have had plenty to say this last year about "threats" from 3abn and "Danny can't sue everyone" and "how unchristian" yada yada.... Looks to me like you use threats against anyone that has a different view of this topic than you do. You can't post an answer to anyone on the "other side" without throwing in your threat of calling them into court. You will look rather foolish trying to question someone who has no connection with 3abn and has done nothing but present facts. Unlike your side who has defamed and slandered. There is no comparison and your threats are foolish.
[/quote]
Again, quite an interesting statement! On the one hand you refer to a person who "has done nothing but present facts" and in the same breath you state it is "foolish trying to question" this person in court? Who do you question in court if not those who claim to know the facts? Are you expecting this court not to be serious?
How do you know that what Gailon says is slander? Were you there as a witness? It so happens that I was involved right from the beginning of this event, and I was an eye witness to some of the events.
-
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
I have noticed that you and your group have had plenty to say this last year about "threats" from 3abn and "Danny can't sue everyone" and "how unchristian" yada yada.... Looks to me like you use threats against anyone that has a different view of this topic than you do. You can't post an answer to anyone on the "other side" without throwing in your threat of calling them into court. You will look rather foolish trying to question someone who has no connection with 3abn and has done nothing but present facts. Unlike your side who has defamed and slandered. There is no comparison and your threats are foolish.
[/quote]
Again, quite an interesting statement! On the one hand you refer to a person who "has done nothing but present facts" and in the same breath you state it is "foolish trying to question" this person in court? Who do you question in court if not those who claim to know the facts? Are you expecting this court not to be serious?
How do you know that what Gailon says is slander? Were you there as a witness? It so happens that I was involved right from the beginning of this event, and I was an eye witness to some of the events.
[/quote]
I noticed the same thing, Johann. According to those defending 3ABN, if you did not actually see something, you cannot possibly know it happened or didn't, yet here "someone who has no connnections with 3ABN" is doing nothing but presenting facts. Interesting....
scratsmom
-
A devaluation of arguments.
-
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court. You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
I have noticed that you and your group have had plenty to say this last year about "threats" from 3abn and "Danny can't sue everyone" and "how unchristian" yada yada.... Looks to me like you use threats against anyone that has a different view of this topic than you do. You can't post an answer to anyone on the "other side" without throwing in your threat of calling them into court. You will look rather foolish trying to question someone who has no connection with 3abn and has done nothing but present facts. Unlike your side who has defamed and slandered. There is no comparison and your threats are foolish.
Again, quite an interesting statement! On the one hand you refer to a person who "has done nothing but present facts" and in the same breath you state it is "foolish trying to question" this person in court? Who do you question in court if not those who claim to know the facts? Are you expecting this court not to be serious?
How do you know that what Gailon says is slander? Were you there as a witness? It so happens that I was involved right from the beginning of this event, and I was an eye witness to some of the events.
[/quote]
I noticed the same thing, Johann. According to those defending 3ABN, if you did not actually see something, you cannot possibly know it happened or didn't, yet here "someone who has no connnections with 3ABN" is doing nothing but presenting facts. Interesting....
scratsmom
[/quote]
scratsmom, what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here.
-
scratsmom, what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here.
Does that mean that truth is what does not make sense? Was Paul off when he in Rom. 12:1 was talking abut what is "reasonable"?
-
I apologise for not answering sooner, but my 48 hr hiatus was unexplainably doubled, and so I was physically unable to till now..
********************************************
ADMIN HAT ON
Ian has made an untrue statement regarding her 48 hour ban which can be verified from the Forum Administrative Ban List which automatically tracks all bans. Ian will need to be truthful in the future. Her next ban, if indicated, will be for 7 days per the Forum Posting Ban Guidelines.
ADMIN HAT OFF
*********************************************
Now, Ian, do you pre-suppose that I buy into the premise that you never use the Donna name to post? If you pick up her laptop and sign on, would you not be posting as Donna?
Except that 1) I have no reason to do that and don't. 2.) The owner and administrator has already checked this out and questioned us and so has answers to that in private from both of us, and this issue was never raised publicly that I know of... 3.) there is no evidence to support such a claim, but as you say you don't buy or accept answers to questions and choose to go with your own false theories, and false assumptions, and surmisings regardless of that. This to me is why you and Bob both keep claiming 3ABN doesn't answer, you don't accept the answers and choose to believe differently...
One thing is sure, there is no reason to grab a shawl and your Mom and run...this is your moment to give us all that relevant, and irrelevant(if you wish), evidence. Now, just so we will know in advance, will it be "confidential" (See Confidentiality Order)?
Fact: I have never claimed to be a first person witness, nor to have evidence that 3ABN holds, that is their's to reveal in court. So you can keep believing I have it, and demanding and pleading I make it available till the cows come home but will not do any good.
Fact: Everything I have ever posted has either quoted or referred to what I am basing my opinions and conclusions on, or has cited documents and letters as the evidence. Most, except the PACER documents from the the very things you and Pickle have published first. If you still had questions, about what it was based on, or I didn't make it clear, all you had to do was ask.
In any event, I have already selected the sight and we will be inviting you to testify under oath. It is only 72 miles away and I am told right across from the US District Court.
And why you think this is necessary is beyond me, but your money, time and expense..
You will get your day in the sun, and by the way, we need all that evidence in advance so we can ask relevant questions regarding source and control.
This seems backwards. Questions come first then answers and evidence...
It is so good that you have been so willing to tell us so much over the months...now you get to show us just what all that commentary is based on.
See above..
It seems absurd to me that you will depose me to ask what my words and posts were/are based on when you could have saved the time and money and asked that at any time here either by post or a pm-- for free..
And sorry, but how will any of this help you to defend yourself from accusations of defamation and trademark violations which are between you and 3ABN?
things that make us go hmmm...
I would suggest you stop issuing threats and work on your case, so far it looks like you are letting Pickle handle it all ( except for trying to get money from DS and 3ABN attys for your adversarial proceedings) as all the letters and dialog with the attorneys and documents filed on PACER have his name on them, and are submitted by him, while you just engage in rhetoric and the proverbial trash talk here on this forum which solves nothing imo.
MY opinion.
Based on what you ask?
well your endless and arrogant claims, insults, putdowns, chest thumping and threats right here on this forum, Gailon.
If you need examples of what I am talking about do not hesitate to ask, for it doesn't require a subpoena nor a deposition to get answers to reasonable questions. :D
Later..
-
I would appreciate your not putting words in my mouth. I believe you know what I meant. I did not mean that truth is what does not make sense as you stated. Also if we refer to God's Word then we must be very careful how we use it. You might want to read all of chapter 12 to get the complete context of the message there for us.
scratsmom, what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here.
Does that mean that truth is what does not make sense? Was Paul off when he in Rom. 12:1 was talking abut what is "reasonable"?
-
I would appreciate your not putting words in my mouth. I believe you know what I meant. I did not mean that truth is what does not make sense as you stated. Also if we refer to God's Word then we must be very careful how we use it. You might want to read all of chapter 12 to get the complete context of the message there for us.
scratsmom, what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here.
Does that mean that truth is what does not make sense? Was Paul off when he in Rom. 12:1 was talking abut what is "reasonable"?
Donna, you stated yourself that what Sam said was not making sense to us. So I asked you a question - I never put words in your moth - because I wanted to know what you mean. You still have not told me, just come with an ac . . . . Is this how you discover truth?
-
Back to the topic, why do some Adventists (and some non Adventists) not let go of the 3ABN saga?
I theorize that much of what is taking place in this 3ABN situation is in some ways analogous to matters that exist in the hearts and minds of some, only on a large and visible scale. Although it is very real, I think that can be (conciously or subconciously) perhaps a metaphorical war reflecting things that we know and struggle with.
Gains and losses can be vicariously felt even in such mundane things as sports. Some of us are fans of one basketball team or another. We get together with people who like the other team and argue ferociously. When one of "our" guys is fouled and the refs dont see it we are as angry as if it happened to us. When one of "our" guys sinks a three pointer from half court as the shot clock hits 00:01 we jump out of our couch screaming as chips and drinks fly across the room. Are we coming unglued because we know the guy who made the shot and are happy for him? No, he represents us. He is in that game vicariously for us. That was our shot.
I suppose that a win for one side or the other will generate thousands of personal wins in the hearts and minds of people who are not party to this case at all.
I think there are many reasons for not being able to let go of this saga and that is just one of them.
-
Its good to know that someones walking the beat when Torquemada is on the prowl.
It sure is good to see Barney Fife alive and well again.
Maxey
-
I would appreciate your not putting words in my mouth. I believe you know what I meant. I did not mean that truth is what does not make sense as you stated. Also if we refer to God's Word then we must be very careful how we use it. You might want to read all of chapter 12 to get the complete context of the message there for us.
scratsmom, what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here.
Does that mean that truth is what does not make sense? Was Paul off when he in Rom. 12:1 was talking abut what is "reasonable"?
Donna, you stated yourself that what Sam said was not making sense to us. So I asked you a question - I never put words in your moth - because I wanted to know what you mean. You still have not told me, just come with an ac . . . . Is this how you discover truth?
What I said was "what Sam stated above is true whether or not it makes sense to anyone here". I did not say, as you stated, "that what Sam said was not making sense to us." Looking back I should have just said, what Sam stated above is true. Would that have helped you understand what I meant?
Johann, I am not into mind games where individuals try to trap others by what they say or how they say or use their words. I am not into lying and deceit. I am not into laughing or jeering when another or others are found in error. I am not into making a joke or taunting at another's expense. I am not into breaking the rules anywhere or at anytime. I make mistakes, yes, but when I realize it or it is pointed out to me, I try to set it right.
I believe one of the main problems, outside of who we allow to influence us, either our Lord Jesus Christ, Satan or our own lusts, is that none of us know each other well enough to judge each others intent and motive. If we claim to be a Christian then our fruits will show whether that is true or not.
One of the things I am into is truth because I believe what our Lord told us, "The truth will set us free." How I discover truth is to pray and seek the Lord's guidance, study everything presented, in any situation, with an open mind and check to see whether what is presented and the presenter is in accordance with God's Word.
-
If English is not one's mother tongue, some slack should be cut.
-
The thing is IAN, that Satan has found a weak point and uses it to divide Adventist, and they are sucked into this abyss of hate and fighting with no awareness of how they are being used for evil and its purpose. This is one of his most successful strategies, as I have seen churches divided on some issue which while of consequence does not matter in the long and short of things in the body of Christ, the church and His chosen people.
The news out of 3ABN seems so familiar, it kind of reminds me of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and their Praise the Lord minitries. Yes that Jim Baker, American televangelist, a former Assemblies of God minister, and a former host (with his then-wife Tammy Faye Bakker) of The PTL Club, a popular evangelical Christian television program. A sex scandal led to his resignation from the ministry. Subsequent revelations of accounting fraud brought about his imprisonment and divorce and effectively ended his time in the larger public eye. My aunt watched and loved them and stood by them no matter what, she would not allow that anything they did could possibly be illegal or that Jim could betray Tammy Faye in any way. Then you have Jimmy Swaggart, tremoundous speaker, oh he was the best preacher this side of the Mississippi and no one could say anything bad about him in my aunts house, until his downfall, again with adultery. Then there was Oral Roberts, a neo-Pentecostal televangelist who started out as a traveling faith healer. He was also a leader in the charismatic movement and a powerful orator. My grandmother never missed a show, until he threathened to go up in his tower at the University and announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home" (a euphemism for death)....it was all too much to believe....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart
They became like a god to many people who followed their every word and declaration, more important than anything else in their lives, and they couldnt let them go no matter what they did or said, and these are good Christians that were watching the shows or sending in donations and going to their crusades and big events. Are Adventist doing the same thing with 3ABN and Danny and Linda, I wonder.........
Like I said, my Aunt and Granny would never let anyone say that their favorite televangelist was in error or had committed any sin, till they were taken out in handcuffs or in shame...
It looks like for some Adventist, thats what it will take for them to see what televangelist gods they have put before themselves who are just humans, with all the frailties that come with it.......
None is perfect, no not one, except Christ, and I have heard no one proclaiming any at 3ABN are perfect or sinless, or that they are gods....
To compare people here to your Granny and Aunt would of course be assuming that the accused in this case are in fact in error or sin and those defending them are blind and do not bother to diligently seek out the truth and facts in the situations for themselves.
The other side of the coin is those who served God and have always been attacked, and falsely accused. The bible is full of examples of such. Satan is angry and he is at war with the remnant of her(the churches) seed. Those who keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy.. Rev 12, 14 and 19:10 are key texts when it comes to our Adventist faith and what is at the root of Controversy...
They also reveal who is the accuser of the brethren and from the beginning in Genensis God said their would be emnity between his seed and her seed...
I personally see those at 3ABN as being up on the wall and sounding the alarm, and being repairers of the breach as we are called to do, and yet they are under constant attack and criticism by most here. I defend them where I can so they can keep doing that good work.
I always feel sorry for Nehemiah when I read how he had to build the wall with a sword in one hand and how he kept having to come down off the wall to deal with problems, Ellen white uses that as an example and says to not allow ourselves to be distracted from the work like this, and to let others help where they can. Right or wrong I figure I am helping in a small way to allow 3abn to continue with their mission and not be overwhelmed or distracted by their enemies.
Jesus is coming again, the world needs to know how soon and how to be prepared.
My 2 cents..
Late edit: corrected identified typos and added clarification to prevent confusion as much as is possible. :)
-
On the nose reddogs :amen:
The thing is IAN, that Satan has found a weak point and uses it to divide Adventist, and they are sucked into this abyss of hate and fighting with no awareness of how they are being used for evil and its purpose. This is one of his most successful strategies, as I have seen churches divided on some issue which while of consequence does not matter in the long and short of things in the body of Christ, the church and His chosen people.
-
Back to the topic, why do some Adventists (and some non Adventists) not let go of the 3ABN saga?
I theorize that much of what is taking place in this 3ABN situation is in some ways analogous to matters that exist in the hearts and minds of some, only on a large and visible scale. Although it is very real, I think that can be (conciously or subconciously) perhaps a metaphorical war reflecting things that we know and struggle with.
Gains and losses can be vicariously felt even in such mundane things as sports. Some of us are fans of one basketball team or another. We get together with people who like the other team and argue ferociously. When one of "our" guys is fouled and the refs dont see it we are as angry as if it happened to us. When one of "our" guys sinks a three pointer from half court as the shot clock hits 00:01 we jump out of our couch screaming as chips and drinks fly across the room. Are we coming unglued because we know the guy who made the shot and are happy for him? No, he represents us. He is in that game vicariously for us. That was our shot.
I suppose that a win for one side or the other will generate thousands of personal wins in the hearts and minds of people who are not party to this case at all.
I think there are many reasons for not being able to let go of this saga and that is just one of them.
Its just a game that evil has snared many Adventist with, and it forces them to take sides and then decide who is up Danny or Linda, how many points did they score with their lawyers this week, or in the latest round, and was it a slam dunk or a rim shot, did they follow up and make sure it went in or was the defense too strong and scooped it off the glass............Is it Danny up by 3 or is Linda about to be eliminated in this round.........is there another news flash on the saga...........whose got the latest score........are there some bigger players that can come in on Danny/Linda's side and rack up the score... :hot:
Its a never ending saga to distract good Christians from their true purpose...
-
Back to the topic, why do some Adventists (and some non Adventists) not let go of the 3ABN saga?
I theorize that much of what is taking place in this 3ABN situation is in some ways analogous to matters that exist in the hearts and minds of some, only on a large and visible scale. Although it is very real, I think that can be (conciously or subconciously) perhaps a metaphorical war reflecting things that we know and struggle with.
Gains and losses can be vicariously felt even in such mundane things as sports. Some of us are fans of one basketball team or another. We get together with people who like the other team and argue ferociously. When one of "our" guys is fouled and the refs dont see it we are as angry as if it happened to us. When one of "our" guys sinks a three pointer from half court as the shot clock hits 00:01 we jump out of our couch screaming as chips and drinks fly across the room. Are we coming unglued because we know the guy who made the shot and are happy for him? No, he represents us. He is in that game vicariously for us. That was our shot.
I suppose that a win for one side or the other will generate thousands of personal wins in the hearts and minds of people who are not party to this case at all.
I think there are many reasons for not being able to let go of this saga and that is just one of them.
Its just a game that evil has snared many Adventist with, and it forces them to take sides and then decide who is up Danny or Linda, how many points did they score with their lawyers this weak, was it a slam dunk or a rim shot, did they follow up and make sure it went in or was the defense too strong and scooped it off the glass............Is it Danny up by 3 or is Linda about to be eliminated in this round.........is there another news flash on the saga...........whose got the latest score........can we get bigger players to come in on Danny/Linda's side and rack up the score... :hot:
Its a never ending saga to distract good Christians from their true purpose...
The way I see it, it's not directly about Linda and Danny at all. The public see's that part of it, they see what they are suppose to see. They will only see more if more is revealed, or is they search for more, and their searching may start with the "saga" of this sad divorce, but it will lead them to see more, and there is much to be learned.
I think in a way, if you only look at the divorce alone, you will not see enough. Why do you think Danny appeared to want only the issues between he and Linda to go before some ASI handlers?
-
If 3ABN is not a Shelton family business, why was it the 3ABN Board that requested ASI to look into Danny's divorce and remarriage?
Why didn't only Danny request it, and leave the Board out of the picture entirely?
-
If 3ABN is not a Shelton family business, why was it the 3ABN Board that requested ASI to look into Danny's divorce and remarriage?
Why didn't only Danny request it, and leave the Board out of the picture entirely?
Good point, Bob!
-
If 3ABN is not a Shelton family business, why was it the 3ABN Board that requested ASI to look into Danny's divorce and remarriage?
Why didn't only Danny request it, and leave the Board out of the picture entirely?
Whose business is it for Christians to focus on, the 'Shelton family business', or the one Christ points us to...... :scratch:
-
If 3ABN is not a Shelton family business, why was it the 3ABN Board that requested ASI to look into Danny's divorce and remarriage?
Why didn't only Danny request it, and leave the Board out of the picture entirely?
Do we know if Danny has a personal membership in ASI or if his membership is more corporate through 3ABN?
It might be a rather shilly question to ask, but I don't personally know the answer. I imagine it shouldn't be too hard for you and Gailon to establish, though.
-
Memberships in ASI are through a person's business organization.
-
Memberships in ASI are through a person's business organization.
Then doesn't it make perfect sense that the 3abn BOD would make the request?
-
Whose business is it for Christians to focus on, the 'Shelton family business', or the one Christ points us to...... :scratch:
A good question. Perhaps we need to switch the attention of the Seventh-day Adventist Church away from the Shelton family business, and what some fear is a worship of mammon rather than our Creator, and towards the work of Christ himself, apart from the mammon associated with the Shelton family business?
-
Whose business is it for Christians to focus on, the 'Shelton family business', or the one Christ points us to...... :scratch:
A good question. Perhaps we need to switch the attention of the Seventh-day Adventist Church away from the Shelton family business, and what some fear is a worship of mammon rather than our Creator, and towards the work of Christ himself, apart from the mammon associated with the Shelton family business?
Evil has a knack for drawing Christians to surreptitiously focus on things other than Christ, and Satan is very good at this as is quite evident....