Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: Bob Pickle on May 21, 2008, 05:48:14 AM
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirement benefits from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirements from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Nor does he ever acknowledge previous corrections or arguments, he just continues as if his opinions and judgments are true and righteous, and cannot be questioned.
Posts like this one, are perfect examples to represent how his defamation per se is ongoing. I wonder if those monitering the forums will agree.
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Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Nor does he ever acknowledge previous corrections or arguments, he just continues as if his opinions and judgments are true and righteous, and cannot be questioned.
Posts like this one, are perfect examples to represent how his defamation per se is ongoing. I wonder if those monitering the forums will agree.
Oh, you mean the ones who can't even get a subpoena done correctly? No one is scared, Ian.
=====
Edited to user's username with a notice to use user's name.
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Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Which item in the list did you think was uncertain?
I suppose someone might question whether Danny was really stating a falsehood when he said that he didn't get retirement or housing benefits. And that would be questionable if the house deal for building equity for retirement isn't considered a housing benefit or a retirement benefit.
But the average person probably won't buy that logic.
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirements from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Nor does he ever acknowledge previous corrections or arguments, he just continues as if his opinions and judgments are true and righteous, and cannot be questioned.
Posts like this one, are perfect examples to represent how his defamation per se is ongoing. I wonder if those monitering the forums will agree.
[/color]
I can't see why they would agree Ian. Seems to me if Bob or Gailon post anything, you seem to think it's your duty to try to knock it down.
I can't understand for the life of me, why DS should be involved in anything promoting the 10 Commandments, in view of everythng that has happened at 3ABN over teh past few years. Brazen as can be, IMHO.
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirement benefits from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
I have come to the conclusion that your continued repetitions must be your attempt at NLP mind control. Repeating the same things over and over is a form of brainwashing. Trouble is the only brain your washing is your own.
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Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Nor does he ever acknowledge previous corrections or arguments, he just continues as if his opinions and judgments are true and righteous, and cannot be questioned.
Posts like this one, are perfect examples to represent how his defamation per se is ongoing. I wonder if those monitering the forums will agree.
Oh, you mean the ones who can't even get a subpoena done correctly? No one is scared, Ian.
=====
Edited to user's username with a notice to use user's name.
:dogwag: Yep there's that little dog again yap yap yapping....
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[
I can't understand for the life of me, why DS should be involved in anything promoting the 10 Commandments, in view of everythng that has happened at 3ABN over teh past few years. Brazen as can be, IMHO.[/b]
It would seem that a lot of people that are closer to the situation than you are would disagree with your allegations and call them unfounded. Try calling the hotels within 30 miles of 3abn and try to reserve a room for campmeeting. Let me help you..they are taken. I hear there will be a record number in attendance this year. Obviously Pickle and Joy have created an illusion for the rest of you. There are just too many people, conference presidents, evangelists, GC workers that have been up close and personal with 3abn administration and they know the truth of the situation.
Now let's put on our thinking caps.....Should we listen to those respected people, many in leadership that have dealt with Danny and 3abn personally or, door number 2 listen to pickle and joy who have never even been there or met the people running 3abn?
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirements from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
Pickle forgot to say "In my opinion" or "alleged"
Nor does he ever acknowledge previous corrections or arguments, he just continues as if his opinions and judgments are true and righteous, and cannot be questioned.
Posts like this one, are perfect examples to represent how his defamation per se is ongoing. I wonder if those monitering the forums will agree.
"Defamation occurs when the statement is false, communicated to a third party, and no special privilege exists..."
So, what part is false and fails the test of the having the preponderonce of the evidence in it's favor?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
I have come to the conclusion that your continued repetitions must be your attempt at NLP mind control. Repeating the same things over and over is a form of brainwashing. Trouble is the only brain your washing is your own.
[/quote]
There we are, more evidence the Danny Supporters are Historic Adventism off-shoots, but these historic Adventists have a significant differentiation, they have no problem with the SIN IN THEIR CAMP.
I have frequently found that true of the Independent Ministries...they quickly denegrate the General Conference for hair splitting isssues and ignore gross misconduct in their own camp...and in fact are known to defend the errant to
the bitter failure of their own institution...and still claim they are benefitiing from the Lord's Blessing; but any problem is immediately identified as the Devil attacking, not any personal accountabiity for mismanagement or administrative error.
Same old, same old!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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[
I can't understand for the life of me, why DS should be involved in anything promoting the 10 Commandments, in view of everythng that has happened at 3ABN over teh past few years. Brazen as can be, IMHO.[/b]
It would seem that a lot of people that are closer to the situation than you are would disagree with your allegations and call them unfounded. Try calling the hotels within 30 miles of 3abn and try to reserve a room for campmeeting. Let me help you..they are taken. I hear there will be a record number in attendance this year. Obviously Pickle and Joy have created an illusion for the rest of you. There are just too many people, conference presidents, evangelists, GC workers that have been up close and personal with 3abn administration and they know the truth of the situation.
Now let's put on our thinking caps.....Should we listen to those respected people, many in leadership that have dealt with Danny and 3abn personally or, door number 2 listen to pickle and joy who have never even been there or met the people running 3abn?
I most heartily agree with all you have said.
This is to be my first year to attend and you are right in finding rooms. I was prepared to accept sleeping in my van until the Lord intervened and through another helped me out. I am so thankful. After reading on here since the forum's beginnings, I signed up as a member to stand in my place for Him.
Isn't He wonderful!
Donna
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
I am still wondering why Danny Shelton is on the lineup for Ten Commandment Weekend, given the fact that he:
- Divorced his wife Linda without biblical grounds.
- Led people to believe that Linda had committed adultery when he himself admitted nearly a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication.
- Failed to report his TCTR royalty income on his financial affidavit of July 2006.
- Covered up the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.
- Engaged in private inurement by buying a house from 3ABN in 1998 for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000, so he could build up equity for retirement.
- Falsely stated under oath in 2002 that he didn't get housing or retirement benefits from 3ABN.
- Falsely stating on the 1998 Form 990 that there were no section 4958 excess benefit transactions.
- Filed a lawsuit in vindictive retaliation against two whistle blowers rather than asking ASI to look into all the allegations.
- Allowed John Lomacang unrebuked to tell the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that Danny Shelton could not be corrected by man.
- Allowed Shelley Quinn unrebuked to insinuate before the entire world in a broadcast on Aug. 10, 2006, that his own step-daughter was a liar when she alleged that Danny had sexually assaulted her.
- etc., etc.
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
I got depressed after following the link above and reading the Camp Meeting schedule.
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http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html (http://www.3abncampmeeting.org/schedule.html)
Why in the world is Danny still on the lineup? To have Danny as part of the lineup is as ludicrous as inviting Bill Clinton to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments.
Just a few thoughts...
As I reflected on your post it came to mind that the only Person ever a part of a lineup who was born, grew up, ministered to the masses and spread the Gospel without sinning at any point in His life also ended up nailed to a wooden cross.
How many of our cherished Christian speakers have come from lives of sin, and yet through the power of the Spirit became vessels for spreading the Good News? I am not in a position to make a judgment call on anyone standing on the stage during the two 3abn events. I'll let the Lord determine whether or not each individual speaker has the right to represent Him.
Remember, this is America..... we have this wonderful thing called Freedom of Speech. I think it applies to most citizens....even a majority of those that sin.
BTW, as far as Bill Clinton, who better to speak on the importance of keeping the 7th and 9th commandments?
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Maybe I should clarify a bit.
Take a look at http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm). He freely admits that he himself fell, but states clearly, "I finally admitted my guilt and started life over again. I am free! Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb! But not until there is admission and full repentance can this happen."
Would it be all right for him to speak for Ten Commandment Weekend? I think so.
But for the unrepentant to speak there, it makes a mockery of it all, and gives the unbeliever opportunity to blaspheme.
I can't say whether Tammy has repented or not. But if Danny has repented, he certainly hasn't made it known.
If Tammy and Danny can participate, why can't Linda?
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Maybe I should clarify a bit.
Take a look at http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm). He freely admits that he himself fell, but states clearly, "I finally admitted my guilt and started life over again. I am free! Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb! But not until there is admission and full repentance can this happen."
Would it be all right for him to speak for Ten Commandment Weekend? I think so.
But for the unrepentant to speak there, it makes a mockery of it all, and gives the unbeliever opportunity to blaspheme.
I can't say whether Tammy has repented or not. But if Danny has repented, he certainly hasn't made it known.
If Tammy and Danny can participate, why can't Linda?
You believe without doubt in Danny's guilt so it looks like that you are saying here that Linda was guilty as charged and has publically repented and made things right. Maybe you can tell us when you came to know of her guilt and when she made her admission public and repented. Probably the only honest thing here is where you say you can't say if Tammy has repented, just like you can't really say most of what you do say.
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Maybe I should clarify a bit.
Take a look at http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm). He freely admits that he himself fell, but states clearly, "I finally admitted my guilt and started life over again. I am free! Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb! But not until there is admission and full repentance can this happen."
Would it be all right for him to speak for Ten Commandment Weekend? I think so.
But for the unrepentant to speak there, it makes a mockery of it all, and gives the unbeliever opportunity to blaspheme.
I can't say whether Tammy has repented or not. But if Danny has repented, he certainly hasn't made it known.
If Tammy and Danny can participate, why can't Linda?
You believe without doubt in Danny's guilt so it looks like that you are saying here that Linda was guilty as charged and has publically repented and made things right. Maybe you can tell us when you came to know of her guilt and when she made her admission public and repented. Probably the only honest thing here is where you say you can't say if Tammy has repented, just like you can't really say most of what you do say.
There's one thing that is consistent with the danny clones and that is that they can make something out of nothing.
Where did we ever see that Linda was guilty of the things that Danny attributed to her? In fact, there is published emails to show that Danny himself didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication - AFTER he had divorced her. Interesting!
Same old, same old. The danny clones are hard at it again. Like beating a dead horse. :horse:
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Hey don't attack me Oz, your pal Mr. Pickle said it so go talk to him and figure it out. Aint beating anything, but if you can't accept the obvious than that is one you I guess. Once again Mr. Pickle suggested that Linda was guilty and admited it and repented and should be able to be at the 10 Commandments weekend - he can answer your questions about Linda's guilt and when she publically admited it and repented to his satisfaction.
Maybe I should clarify a bit.
Take a look at http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm (http://www.save-3abn.com/letters-of-support-gpf-1.htm). He freely admits that he himself fell, but states clearly, "I finally admitted my guilt and started life over again. I am free! Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb! But not until there is admission and full repentance can this happen."
Would it be all right for him to speak for Ten Commandment Weekend? I think so.
But for the unrepentant to speak there, it makes a mockery of it all, and gives the unbeliever opportunity to blaspheme.
I can't say whether Tammy has repented or not. But if Danny has repented, he certainly hasn't made it known.
If Tammy and Danny can participate, why can't Linda?
You believe without doubt in Danny's guilt so it looks like that you are saying here that Linda was guilty as charged and has publically repented and made things right. Maybe you can tell us when you came to know of her guilt and when she made her admission public and repented. Probably the only honest thing here is where you say you can't say if Tammy has repented, just like you can't really say most of what you do say.
There's one thing that is consistent with the danny clones and that is that they can make something out of nothing.
Where did we ever see that Linda was guilty of the things that Danny attributed to her? In fact, there is published emails to show that Danny himself didn't know whether or not she had committed fornication - AFTER he had divorced her. Interesting!
Same old, same old. The danny clones are hard at it again. Like beating a dead horse. :horse:
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Once again Mr. Pickle suggested that Linda was guilty and admited it and repented and should be able to be at the 10 Commandments weekend - ....
Not at all. What I was trying to say is that if Tammy can participate given the horrendous allegations against her, and if Danny can participate given the horrendous allegations against him, why can't Linda given the fact that all she is proven to have done is talked too much on the telephone, though the actual amount of time she spent is debatable?
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Once again Mr. Pickle suggested that Linda was guilty and admited it and repented and should be able to be at the 10 Commandments weekend - ....
Not at all. What I was trying to say is that if Tammy can participate given the horrendous allegations against her, and if Danny can participate given the horrendous allegations against him, why can't Linda given the fact that all she is proven to have done is talked too much on the telephone, though the actual amount of time she spent is debatable?
Because that would be dumb. Most companies, ministries, etc... don't invite ex-employees whom they have fired to be in their programs...
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But 3ABN is supposed to be ethical and Christ-like.
Since Linda was fired for what appears to be groundless reasons, and since if Danny and Tammy were dealt with in the way Linda was they would have been history years ago, and since Danny and Tammy are in the lineup for this year, Linda should be too.
Otherwise it gives the appearance that 3ABN is hypocritical in the extreme regarding its promotion of the 10 Commandments.
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Perhaps I am feeling a bit more cynical than usual today about the way this entire saga is being handled, but I am compelled to suggest that we all stand up and sing a rousing rendition of the obviously beloved and well-practiced refrain "Blah Blah Blah..."
And with that, my dear brothers and sisters, I wish you the happiest and most blessed of weekends. May your hearts feel the joy and peace of the Spirit and your feet find their way to His path.
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Perhaps I am feeling a bit more cynical than usual today about the way this entire saga is being handled, but I am compelled to suggest that we all stand up and sing a rousing rendition of the obviously beloved and well-practiced refrain "Blah Blah Blah..."
And with that, my dear brothers and sisters, I wish you the happiest and most blessed of weekends. May your hearts feel the joy and peace of the Spirit and your feet find their way to His path.
:D Your rendition was to short for me to determine if you were doing the 4/4 or the 3/4 version grandma. Regardless, I raise a hearty monotone blah blah to you as well.
Maxey
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Bravo, Maxey... I got goosebumps.
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Its their organization, their ten commandments celebration, their icons of ten commandment religiosity, their property, their airtime, and I reckon they will do with it as they please. If people get warm fuzzies out a troup of fakes it wouldn't be the first time. People get used to fake and that becomes their real. But hey, whatever makes em happy and opens up those wallets, eh? :rabbit:
And all the people recited.... "Blah, blah, blah!"
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Its their organization, their ten commandments celebration, their icons of ten commandment religiosity, their property, their airtime, and I reckon they will do with it as they please. If people get warm fuzzies out a troup of fakes it wouldn't be the first time. People get used to fake and that becomes their real. But hey, whatever makes em happy and opens up those wallets, eh? :rabbit:
And all the people recited.... "Blah, blah, blah!"
Very aptly said...now for the third stanza..."Hah, hah, hah!!!" sang the "annointed one" all the way to the bank.
Gailon Arthur Joy
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OK Sam - I took your advice about checking the availability of rooms within 30 miles of 3ABN for the coming campmeeting weekend, and here's what I found as of today:
* The Super 8 in Marion has over 40 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Benton has 15 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Du Quoin has 10 rooms available
* The Americas Best Value Inn in West Frankfort has rooms availabe - they weren't sure how many
That's what I found out so far. I do have some other things to do today, but if I get a break I'll make some more calls just to see if I can find a place that is actually sold out...
I wonder just what record will be broken this year??
It would seem that a lot of people that are closer to the situation than you are would disagree with your allegations and call them unfounded. Try calling the hotels within 30 miles of 3abn and try to reserve a room for campmeeting. Let me help you..they are taken. I hear there will be a record number in attendance this year. Obviously Pickle and Joy have created an illusion for the rest of you. There are just too many people, conference presidents, evangelists, GC workers that have been up close and personal with 3abn administration and they know the truth of the situation.
Now let's put on our thinking caps.....Should we listen to those respected people, many in leadership that have dealt with Danny and 3abn personally or, door number 2 listen to pickle and joy who have never even been there or met the people running 3abn?
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:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
OK Sam - I took your advice about checking the availability of rooms within 30 miles of 3ABN for the coming campmeeting weekend, and here's what I found as of today:
* The Super 8 in Marion has over 40 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Benton has 15 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Du Quoin has 10 rooms available
* The Americas Best Value Inn in West Frankfort has rooms availabe - they weren't sure how many
That's what I found out so far. I do have some other things to do today, but if I get a break I'll make some more calls just to see if I can find a place that is actually sold out...
I wonder just what record will be broken this year??
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What?
If you're telling the truth, Snoopy, then we had someone break the 9th commandment when describing the availability of lodging for 10 Commandment Weekend.
And that possibility illustrates my concern about the gross hypocrisy going on.
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Well Bob, according to Sam I am not bright enough to be a moderator here. But, I did manage to find the numbers of some local motels and make the phone calls on my own...and...I detest lying...
What?
If you're telling the truth, Snoopy, then we had someone break the 9th commandment when describing the availability of lodging for 10 Commandment Weekend.
And that possibility illustrates my concern about the gross hypocrisy going on.
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OK Sam - I took your advice about checking the availability of rooms within 30 miles of 3ABN for the coming campmeeting weekend, and here's what I found as of today:
* The Super 8 in Marion has over 40 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Benton has 15 rooms available
* The Super 8 in Du Quoin has 10 rooms available
* The Americas Best Value Inn in West Frankfort has rooms availabe - they weren't sure how many
That's what I found out so far. I do have some other things to do today, but if I get a break I'll make some more calls just to see if I can find a place that is actually sold out...
I wonder just what record will be broken this year??
It would seem that a lot of people that are closer to the situation than you are would disagree with your allegations and call them unfounded. Try calling the hotels within 30 miles of 3abn and try to reserve a room for campmeeting. Let me help you..they are taken. I hear there will be a record number in attendance this year. Obviously Pickle and Joy have created an illusion for the rest of you. There are just too many people, conference presidents, evangelists, GC workers that have been up close and personal with 3abn administration and they know the truth of the situation.
Now let's put on our thinking caps.....Should we listen to those respected people, many in leadership that have dealt with Danny and 3abn personally or, door number 2 listen to pickle and joy who have never even been there or met the people running 3abn?
What dates did you ask for? If there are some who can only come for the 10 commandment week end they would surely not reserve a room for the camp meeting part of it. So it depends on what dates you asked about. There could be another explanation too.
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I asked for May 28th through June 1. Sure, there could be another explanation, although I don't know what it would be. Regardless, Sam insisted that there were no rooms available within 30 miles of 3ABN over the campmeeting weekend, and I just proved him wrong.
What dates did you ask for? If there are some who can only come for the 10 commandment week end they would surely not reserve a room for the camp meeting part of it. So it depends on what dates you asked about. There could be another explanation too.
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I asked for May 28th through June 1. Sure, there could be another explanation, although I don't know what it would be. Regardless, Sam insisted that there were no rooms available within 30 miles of 3ABN over the campmeeting weekend, and I just proved him/her wrong.
What dates did you ask for? If there are some who can only come for the 10 commandment week end they would surely not reserve a room for the camp meeting part of it. So it depends on what dates you asked about. There could be another explanation too.
I do know that my reservation, for the whole time period, got mixed up and someone at 3ABN tried to find me another room and could not find one. They went way out of their way to find a place I could stay.
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Well, Donna, call up a motel or two and ask for the number of rooms available for a variety of dates, and report back to us what you find.
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I went on travelocity and found a bunch of hotels in the area with rooms available for the 29th through the 1st. Good news for Donna, Sam or any other 3ABN goers. There are plenty of rooms available at the inns.
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What?
If you're telling the truth, Snoopy, then we had someone break the 9th commandment when describing the availability of lodging for 10 Commandment Weekend.
And that possibility illustrates my concern about the gross hypocrisy going on.
But Bob... it's just more of the same ole, same ole. We've come to expect that now, and Snoopy has don't some excellent detective work here.
:TY: Snoopy, for doing that and providing the information regarding dates, number of vacancies etc.
Maybe, they just 'heard' from one of their sources, instead of checking for themselves? It's never really safe to do that though. Need to check things for oneself IMHO.
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I asked for May 28th through June 1. Sure, there could be another explanation, although I don't know what it would be. Regardless, Sam insisted that there were no rooms available within 30 miles of 3ABN over the campmeeting weekend, and I just proved him/her wrong.
What dates did you ask for? If there are some who can only come for the 10 commandment week end they would surely not reserve a room for the camp meeting part of it. So it depends on what dates you asked about. There could be another explanation too.
I do know that my reservation, for the whole time period, got mixed up and someone at 3ABN tried to find me another room and could not find one. They went way out of their way to find a place I could stay.
But... it makes their story sound good doesn't it Donna, when they tell you everything is booked out and people are led to believe this is to be a roaring success, because of this fallacy.
Just as with their other 'stories', other people have found that this one is not true either.
Maybe, you need to investigate ALL of 3abn's claims? I believe you would be quite enlightened. :amen:
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Thanks, Ozzie!!
Remember, I'm just a nosy little puppy... :puppykisses:
But Bob... it's just more of the same ole, same ole. We've come to expect that now, and Snoopy has don't some excellent detective work here.
:TY: Snoopy, for doing that and providing the information regarding dates, number of vacancies etc.
Maybe, they just 'heard' from one of their sources, instead of checking for themselves? It's never really safe to do that though. Need to check things for oneself IMHO.
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Thanks, Ozzie!!
Remember, I'm just a nosy little puppy... :puppykisses:
But... I love nosy little puppies, cos they dig up all kinds of things! :puppykisses: :dogwag:
edited for typo.
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It would seem that a lot of people that are closer to the situation than you are would disagree with your allegations and call them unfounded. Try calling the hotels within 30 miles of 3abn and try to reserve a room for campmeeting. Let me help you..they are taken. I hear there will be a record number in attendance this year. Obviously Pickle and Joy have created an illusion for the rest of you. There are just too many people, conference presidents, evangelists, GC workers that have been up close and personal with 3abn administration and they know the truth of the situation.
Now let's put on our thinking caps.....Should we listen to those respected people, many in leadership that have dealt with Danny and 3abn personally or, door number 2 listen to pickle and joy who have never even been there or met the people running 3abn?
:dogwag: Yep there's that little dog again yap yap yapping...
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Boy, sure got quiet in here!
Sam, care to explain the discrepancy between your claim and the actual facts? Looks like you got caught BIG TIME! :ROFL:
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I was noticing that, too, Duane!!
Boy, sure got quiet in here!
Sam, care to explain the discrepancy between your claim and the actual facts? Looks like you got caught BIG TIME! :ROFL:
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Boy, sure got quiet in here!
Sam, care to explain the discrepancy between your claim and the actual facts? Looks like you got caught BIG TIME! :ROFL:
Rather amazing isn't it Duane? Point out fact and there is a deafening silence. :ROFL:
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I don't know what the deal is? But I know I found available rooms online last week but when I called around they were not available... but the amount of people who show up for campmeeting and ten commandment weekend will settle it for me, so not worth arguing about more than it already has been. :)
It sure is nice in our new kinder and gentler forum to see all being so loving, courteous and repectful toward other members.
Makes a world of difference when all adhere, to the golden rule, and mocking and insulting others isn't tolerated, doesn't it?
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I don't know what the deal is? But I know I found available rooms online last week but when I called around they were not available... but the amount of people who show up for campmeeting and ten commandment weekend will settle it for me, so not worth arguing about more than it already has been. :)
It sure is nice in our new kinder and gentler forum to see all being so loving, courteous and repectful toward other members.
Makes a world of difference when all adhere, to the golden rule, and mocking and insulting others isn't tolerated, doesn't it?
You don't know what the deal is? OK, I'll explain it. Sam made a wild claim thinking no one would check up on it. Snoopy DID check up on it, and the claim was proven to be a false one.
Does that help?
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Hey Duane - you gonna go to campmeeting?? Imagine how interesting it could be...!!
You don't know what the deal is? OK, I'll explain it. Sam made a wild claim thinking no one would check up on it. Snoopy DID check up on it, and the claim was proven to be a false one.
Does that help?
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There may be another explanation to this that I discovered when I had to reserve a motel room for meetings somewhere.
When I called a particular motel by phone, they said the rooms were all reserved. I, therefore, did an online google search for available rooms and discovered that there were rooms availabe in that particular motel.
When I called back and questioned them about this, they explained that there are organizations that reserve blocks of rooms for a set price and then they make them available for online searchers. I actually got the room for a cheaper rate than what the motel itself was offering.
This could be the same thing that has happened in the areas where 3ABN is located, but then, as I reflect on this further, maybe not, for the reason that a call to the motels should have resulted in their saying that the rooms are reserved, as was the case in my situation.
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Hey Duane - you gonna go to campmeeting?? Imagine how interesting it could be...!!
Seriously I think many would welcome him if he chose to come...and would receive a blessing, as this spring campmeeting theme is "new beginnings" and the them for 10 commandment weekend is "the constitution of Grace". As usual they have some very good speakers and music lined up. As that was the topic of this thread, maybe the schedule would be good, to insert here.
3ABN Camp Meeting
"New Beginnings"
Wednesday, May 28, 2008
7:00-9:00pm Program Hosted by:
Jim Gilley & Danny Shelton
Speaker:
Alvin Kibble
Thursday, May 29, 2008
9:00-10:00am Seminar John Lomacang
Seminar Leonard Westphal
East Meeting Room
10:30-11:30am Seminar David Asscherick
Noon-1:00pm Seminar Stephen Bohr
2:30-3:30pm Seminar Mike Tucker
8:00-10:00pm Program
Bible Questions Hosted by:
Jim Gilley & Danny Shelton
Panel Members:
Stephen Bohr, Mike Tucker, Ken Cox, David Asscherick, John Lomacang, CA Murray, and Shelley Quinn
Friday, May 30, 2008
9:00-10:00am Seminar Kenneth Cox
10:30-11:30am Seminar David Asscherick
Seminar Leonard Westphal
East Meeting Room
Noon-1:00pm Seminar Stephen Bohr
2:30-3:30pm Seminar Mike Tucker
3ABN's Ten Commandments Weekend
"The Constitution of Grace"
Friday, May 30, 2008
6:00-7:00pm Opening Hosted by:
Jim Gilley & Danny Shelton
7:00-8:00pm God's Covenant & Law Jim Gilley
8:00-9:00pm Commandment #1 C.A. Murray
9:00-10:00pm Commandment #2 Jay Gallimore
Saturday, May 31, 2008
9:00-10:00am Commandment #3 Shelley Quinn
10:00-11:00am Music
11:00-12:00am Commandment #4 Stephen Bohr
Break
2:00-3:00pm Commandment #5 Mike Tucker
3:00-4:00pm Commandment #6 Kenneth Cox
4:00-5:00pm Commandment #7 David Asscherick
5:00-6:00pm Commandment #8 David Shin
Break
7:00-8:00pm Commandment #9 Frank Gonzalez
8:00-9:00pm Commandment #10 John Lomacang
9:00-10:00pm Religious Liberty Ed Reid
Of course, all will be broadcast, and for those who can not watch on TV, you can always tune in and watch online here:
http://3abn.org/
or at www.save3abn.com, www.save3abn.org, or www.save-3abn.org
(and maybe if Duane stops being so concerned about being trapped, or attacked, he could then talk to some people one on one, as he needs to...)
and Duane we could do lunch... I mean that sincerily. :dogwag:
Ian
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Hey Ian, why is Danny still on the lineup? Kind of weird, isn't it?
He gets caught red-handed saying under oath that he didn't get retirement or housing benefits when he bought a house from 3ABN for $6,139 and sold it a week later for $135,000, all to build up equity for retirement.
And he dumps his wife, divorces her, and all, without knowing whether she had committed fornication. And he still gets to be part of the lineup?
Sounds like the morals down at 3ABN are pretty loose. Extremely loose. I thought 3ABN was supposed to be known for upholding standards, but it sounds like they have thrown them to the wind.
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Bob Pickle, your jealousy is showing. You might want to watch the Ten Commandment week-end series. It might do you some good.
Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there. The line-up of Speakers sounds really nice. The fact that their morals are questioned seems to show a jealousy problem. I think Bob Pickle wishes he were a speaker there.
Check it out for yourself and see what is the truth in this matter.
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Junebug,
I don't understand your post.
It is an indisputable fact that Danny divorced his wife without knowing whether he had biblical grounds (whether Linda had committed "fornication") to do so.
It is an indisputable fact that he bought a house from 3ABN at far below FMV and sold it one week later at a hefty profit, and then stated that he didn't get housing or retirement benefits.
It is also an indisputable fact that he replaced Linda as production manager with Tommy, an alleged molester of males both below and above 18 years of age.
Yet Danny is still in the lineup for 10 Commandment weekend? And you think the morals there are as high as always?
Or did you mean that the morals there are as high as they have always been, and thus they never have been high after all?
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Folks, the only indisputable fact is that all that Bob says that is indisputable is in fact in dispute; the reason for his being sued for defamation.
Junebug,
I don't understand your post.
It is an indisputable fact that Danny divorced his wife without knowing whether he had biblical grounds (whether Linda had committed "fornication") to do so.
It is an indisputable fact that he bought a house from 3ABN at far below FMV and sold it one week later at a hefty profit, and then stated that he didn't get housing or retirement benefits.
It is also an indisputable fact that he replaced Linda as production manager with Tommy, an alleged molester of males both below and above 18 years of age.
Yet Danny is still in the lineup for 10 Commandment weekend? And you think the morals there are as high as always?
Or did you mean that the morals there are as high as they have always been, and thus they never have been high after all?
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Which indisputable fact is really in dispute?
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Bob Pickle, your jealousy is showing. You might want to watch the Ten Commandment week-end series. It might do you some good.
Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there. The line-up of Speakers sounds really nice. The fact that their morals are questioned seems to show a jealousy problem. I think Bob Pickle wishes he were a speaker there.
Check it out for yourself and see what is the truth in this matter.
Jealousy? I don't believe that Bob is thinking of ditching his wife for a younger filly! I haven't known him to be that way inclined.
What you have stated here Junebug, just does not make sense.
As for stating "the morals at 3ABN are as high as always", that's a real worry. Morals don't have to be too high, if they are only to live up to previous standards. That much is certain.
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Hear that Bob? You are jealous of Danny and wish you could be just like him. And maybe you are jealous of the high morals of 3ABN and wish you could have those too but they belong to 3ABN and not you so taking them would be stealing on top of coveting. So go back to your desk and write a concisely worded essay listing the things about Danny that make you jealous of him and present it to the class forthwith. If you get a good grade you might be allowed to play with brother Leroy. (if they had a whipping emoticon it would be right here.)
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Hear that Bob? You are jealous of Danny and wish you could be just like him. And maybe you are jealous of the high morals of 3ABN and wish you could have those too but they belong to 3ABN and not you so taking them would be stealing on top of coveting. So go back to your desk and write a concisely worded essay listing the things about Danny that make you jealous of him and present it to the class forthwith. If you get a good grade you might be allowed to play with brother Leroy. (if they had a whipping emoticon it would be right here.)
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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And I repeat my prior statement:
I cannot imagine how anyone would be very jealous of Danny Lee Shelton or 3ABN at this point:
He is the FORMER President of 3ABN and struggling to maintain his role as ADVISOR;
He is divorced and accused of biblical adultery, which his board made the mistake of Blessing;
He is a defendant trying hard to avoid paying his ex-wife her FAIR SHARE and the judge today just did not sound that friendly making it clear there ought to be a settlement, allowed Linda to re-open discovery in light of the various allegations ordering depositions in July;
He has filed suite against two journalists and must now provide thousaands of documents to the defendants so they can close the ring of evidence around him and his board;
He has served his ex-wife and this will inevitably lead to additional counterclaims against Danny Lee Shelton and at least several of the directors;
The IRS Criminal Investigation is ongoing and looming over Danny Lee Shelton and the directors of 3ABN like a guillotine (talking about a heavy heart);
And this is by no means the end of litigation that Danny Lee Shelton, 3ABN and it's officers and directors will face as the lawyers gear up to press their various cases against the Shelton Business.
And there will be collateral damage to birds of a feather and associated entities.
Anyone want to trade places?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Ya Duane, you get made fun of, patronized and invited to do lunch in the same sincere breath. "'Come into my parlor' said the spider to the fly."
(and maybe if Duane stops being so concerned about being trapped, or attacked, he could then talk to some people one on one, as he needs to...)
and Duane we could do lunch... I mean that sincerily. :dogwag:
Ian
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"'Come into my parlor' said the spider to the fly."
My thoughts exactly!
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Neither one of you know Ian as I do. No one could ask for a truer friend on this earth. Rejoices with me when I do right, tells me and helps me when I am in error (according to God's word on both of these, and stands beside me praying, leaving the final choices up to me and the Lord when I am having a problem with what to do. Duane can trust my friend Ian all the way.
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Neither one of you know Ian as I do. No one could ask for a truer friend on this earth. Rejoices with me when I do right, tells me and helps me when I am in error (according to God's word on both of these, and stands beside me praying, leaving the final choices up to me and the Lord when I am having a problem with what to do. Duane can trust my friend Ian all the way.
Isn't that the same advice that Walt Thompson has given concerning Danny Shelton all along? I didn't believe Walt and I have no reason to give Donna's testimony any more weight than I have given him. It is important to know the credibility of the source.
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Yes, it is important to know the credibility of the source and why I have made the stand I have in this forum.
Neither one of you know Ian as I do. No one could ask for a truer friend on this earth. Rejoices with me when I do right, tells me and helps me when I am in error (according to God's word on both of these, and stands beside me praying, leaving the final choices up to me and the Lord when I am having a problem with what to do. Duane can trust my friend Ian all the way.
Isn't that the same advice that Walt Thompson has given concerning Danny Shelton all along? I didn't believe Walt and I have no reason to give Donna's testimony any more weight than I have given him. It is important to know the credibility of the source.
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I am looking forward to many blessings this week. See you after the week end.
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Neither one of you know Ian as I do. No one could ask for a truer friend on this earth. Rejoices with me when I do right, tells me and helps me when I am in error (according to God's word on both of these, and stands beside me praying, leaving the final choices up to me and the Lord when I am having a problem with what to do. Duane can trust my friend Ian all the way.
Isn't that the same advice that Walt Thompson has given concerning Danny Shelton all along? I didn't believe Walt and I have no reason to give Donna's testimony any more weight than I have given him. It is important to know the credibility of the source.
True, but she is not only one of my best friends, she is also my Mom, and sister in the Lord. As such she is just as entitled to her opinion based on her personal experience and knowledge as you are, and does not need your support nor endorsement to state that, or be credible or not credible.
Positive endorsements and character references like hers, or Dr Thompson's as you refer to, are personal opinions. None need prove them to be true, it is simply their view of the people they know...
When it comes to allegations and accusations however, things are very different, or should be...
So "Sister" before you start making claims about another's credibility, you should first consider yourself,and your own credibility, for we are not to start examining our neighbors eye under a microscope for a mote, without first getting that obstruction out of our own eye which prevents us from seeing clearly.
Please consider: The very reason you give is why your stories are not credible. You and most of your sources for your stories insist in claiming things and accusing others of immorality, vice, sin, and crimes but you don't provide either the evidence to back it up, nor your names, and can therefore not be considered credible by any who know that all people, especially fellow Christians, deserve the benefit of the doubt and should be presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
Cetainly any accused should have the right to face their accusers and rebut any evidence.
Personal attacks and accusations from the shadows,cloaked in anonymity doesn't in my opinion equal Christian behavior, ethics, nor morals. You are making void the rights of others, and treating them in away that I am quite sure none of you would want others to do to yurselves or your loved ones.
I hope I am entitled to my opinion about this here.
Ian
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That's great, Ian!! Do you recommend the example set by Danny Shelton and the 3ABN Board in this regard??? Did Linda Shelton or Derrell Mundall have a right to face their accusers??
Please consider: The very reason you give is why your stories are not credible. You and most of your sources for your stories insist in claiming things and accusing others of immorality, vice, sin, and crimes but you don't provide either the evidence to back it up, nor your names, and can therefore not be considered credible by any who know that all people, especially fellow Christians, deserve the benefit of the doubt and should be presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
Cetainly any accused should have the right to face their accusers and rebut any evidence.
Personal attacks and accusations from the shadows,cloaked in anonymity doesn't in my opinion equal Christian behavior, ethics, nor morals. You are making void the rights of others, and treating them in away that I am quite sure none of you would want others to do to yurselves or your loved ones.
I hope I am entitled to my opinion about this here.
Ian
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Neither one of you know Ian as I do. No one could ask for a truer friend on this earth. Rejoices with me when I do right, tells me and helps me when I am in error (according to God's word on both of these, and stands beside me praying, leaving the final choices up to me and the Lord when I am having a problem with what to do. Duane can trust my friend Ian all the way.
Isn't that the same advice that Walt Thompson has given concerning Danny Shelton all along? I didn't believe Walt and I have no reason to give Donna's testimony any more weight than I have given him. It is important to know the credibility of the source.
True, but she is not only one of my best friends, she is also my Mom, and sister in the Lord. As such she is just as entitled to her opinion based on her personal experience and knowledge as you are, and does not need your support nor endorsement to state that, or be credible or not credible.
One cannot expect a mother to remain impartial. Mothers will defend their children, no matter what they do or say. It's only natural that there will be a bias and blindness, when it comes to our children.
Positive endorsements and character references like hers, or Dr Thompson's as you refer to, are personal opinions. None need prove them to be true, it is simply their view of the people they know...
When it comes to allegations and accusations however, things are very different, or should be...
So "Sister" before you start making claims about another's credibility, you should first consider yourself,and your own credibility, for we are not to start examining our neighbors eye under a microscope for a mote, without first getting that obstruction out of our own eye which prevents us from seeing clearly.
Please consider: The very reason you give is why your stories are not credible. You and most of your sources for your stories insist in claiming things and accusing others of immorality, vice, sin, and crimes but you don't provide either the evidence to back it up, nor your names, and can therefore not be considered credible by any who know that all people, especially fellow Christians, deserve the benefit of the doubt and should be presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
Certainly any accused should have the right to face their accusers and rebut any evidence.
Personal attacks and accusations from the shadows,cloaked in anonymity doesn't in my opinion equal Christian behavior, ethics, nor morals. You are making void the rights of others, and treating them in away that I am quite sure none of you would want others to do to yurselves or your loved ones.
I hope I am entitled to my opinion about this here.
Ian
Yes. You are entitled to your opinion Ian, but that doesn't make you right.
Just how much evidence do you want?
Out of these statements made against DS by Gailon yesterday, would you demonstrate which are untrue please? We need the evidence to prove that these things are not true please.
He is the FORMER President of 3ABN and struggling to maintain his role as ADVISOR;
He is divorced and accused of biblical adultery, which his board made the mistake of Blessing;
He is a defendant trying hard to avoid paying his ex-wife her FAIR SHARE and the judge today just did not sound that friendly making it clear there ought to be a settlement, allowed Linda to re-open discovery in light of the various allegations ordering depositions in July;
He has filed suite against two journalists and must now provide thousands of documents to the defendants so they can close the ring of evidence around him and his board;
He has served his ex-wife and this will inevitably lead to additional counterclaims against Danny Lee Shelton and at least several of the directors;
The IRS Criminal Investigation is ongoing and looming over Danny Lee Shelton and the directors of 3ABN like a guillotine (talking about a heavy heart);
And this is by no means the end of litigation that Danny Lee Shelton, 3ABN and it's officers and directors will face as the lawyers gear up to press their various cases against the Shelton Business.
And there will be collateral damage to birds of a feather and associated entities.
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Ya Duane, you get made fun of, patronized and invited to do lunch in the same sincere breath. "'Come into my parlor' said the spider to the fly."
Yeah, well...I only have 5 vacation days and I would rather use them for doing activities with the kids in my youth group.
Ian, I sincerely thank you for the lunch invitation, but it's not a good idea for me to appear at campmeeting. Surely you can understand why.
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Ya Duane, you get made fun of, patronized and invited to do lunch in the same sincere breath. "'Come into my parlor' said the spider to the fly."
Yeah, well...I only have 5 vacation days and I would rather use them for doing activities with the kids in my youth group.
Ian, I sincerely thank you for the lunch invitation, but it's not a good idea for me to appear at campmeeting. Surely you can understand why.
Duane
Do you think they understand anything? Seems to me that some are as thick as bricks and just 'don't get it'.
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I am looking forward to many blessings this week. See you after the week end.
Ian,
You and Donna are two very confused people. You have not grown up yet to discern between fiction and reality. You state about your "mom":
"she is not only one of my best friends, she is also my Mom, and sister in the Lord. As such she is just as entitled to her opinion based on her personal experience and knowledge as you are."
Those who are familiar with logical fallacies know that your statement is a "non sequitur." It does not follow that because someone is your "Mom, and sister in the Lord" this very thing entitles her to her opinions. Who cares about her opinions, or your opinions, anyway? Anybody here? And even if she might be entitled to her own opinions SHE IS NOT ENTITLED TO HER OWN FACTS. The problem is that you and Donna are two broken records, running again and again the same old and nonsensical tune. You keep contradicting FACTS because you don't understand that while opinions can be personal and subjective, the crimes D. Shelton has committed are not a matter or opinion, but a matter of PUBLIC RECORD, of FACTS. You can keep running those damaged records night and day stating opinions and making accusations, but you cannot deny THE FACTS.
Quite often, we people dig our own graves by making statements that show how hypocritical we are. You are doing it all the time. For instance, in your message you state:
"Cetainly [sic!] any accused should have the right to face their accusers and rebut any evidence."
You also state:
"Personal attacks and accusations from the shadows,cloaked in anonymity doesn't in my opinion equal Christian behavior, ethics, nor morals."
Did D.Shelton's actions show "Christian behavior, ethics, [or] morals" when he accused Linda of adultery and spread the rumors and gossip to the whole world without providing any evidence that she had commited the sin?
Did D. Shelton's actions show "Christian behavior, ethics, [or] morals" when he made Linda sign a paper forbidding her to defend herself, and taking from her the fundamental right of the accused to "face their accusers and rebut any evidence"?
Is it a matter of opinion that D. Shelton acted in the most despicable, mean, and dishonorable way when he treated Linda that way while he was hiding his brother's perversion and protecting him from the deserved punishment?
Is it a matter of opinion that D. Shelton lied to the IRS, and tried to steal what is rightfully due to the government?
Again and again Pickle and Joy pointed to FACTUAL EVIDENCE which shows that D. Shelton committed crimes that deserve imprisonment. What is a "matter of opinion" in all the evidence they provided?
Eduard
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Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.
If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! :(
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Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.
If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! :(
How is that evident to you Inga?
Do you personally know any of the people beiing maligned, or being accused/rebuked of sin?
Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?
Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?
Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?
If not you are in grave danger my sister, and stand on VERY shaky ground. I say this in love and out of respect and concern, for I do, and have done so, and cannot agree with your judgment, and because of this know the Lord will not agree with what you claim is "evident", for HE is a righteous Judge, and is all about truth, grace and mercy.
It is a biblical fact that those who can not love others as he does, and who do not give mercy will recieve none, and as they judge, so they will be judged.
We all have a huge responsibility here, and will be held accountable for "every idle word"
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I do and have done so, and Inga's statement is correct.
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I do and have done so, and Inga's statement is correct.
FACT:
Bob Pickle knows none at 3ABN, ( nor do they know him except by the work he has engaged in against them) he was not involved nor witness to any of the hearsay he has reported, which he is being sued for, and has in fact never set foot at 3ABN.
Further-- He is asking 3ABN to provide evidence, so he can prove his claims against them in the lawsuit.
Why?
He is unable to do so based on what he has now, and as he is in error,will never be able to...
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Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?
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Don't lie.
Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?
Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?
Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?
I do and have done so.
Further:
Further-- He is asking 3ABN to provide evidence, so he can prove his claims against them in the lawsuit.
Why?
He is unable to do so based on what he has now, and as he is in error,will never be able to...
You are displaying your ignorance of the legal process.
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Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?
Correct, Daryl. The standards of the Federal Rules of Evidence are pretty high. Praise God that they are, since that protects us.
The bottom line is that the average person can be convinced that a point has been proved when the standards of the Federal Rules of Evidence have not yet been met.
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Ian, do you know Linda?
Do you have personal knowledge of her morals?
Have your personally gone to her and asked any questions?
How about any of the others you have attacked on these sites? Have you personally gone to them and asked questions?
Or are you advising Inga to do the opposite of what you do?
Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.
If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! :(
How is that evident to you Inga?
Do you personally know any of the people beiing maligned, or being accused/rebuked of sin?
Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?
Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?
Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?
If not you are in grave danger my sister, and stand on VERY shaky ground. I say this in love and out of respect and concern, for I do, and have done so, and cannot agree with your judgment, and because of this know the Lord will not agree with what you claim is "evident", for HE is a righteous Judge, and is all about truth, grace and mercy.
It is a biblical fact that those who can not love others as he does, and who do not give mercy will recieve none, and as they judge, so they will be judged.
We all have a huge responsibility here, and will be held accountable for "every idle word"
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Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?
Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?
It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.
For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...
3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"
The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...
The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...
Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
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What do those PACER documents say?
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The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
They either say nothing of the sort, or someone is lying.
Of the 12,000+ pages claimed to have already been given us, more than 11,416 pages are simply BlackSDA.com printouts and 849+ pages are but Save3ABN printouts. Much of the rest are documents that you can download off of Save-3ABN.com, like financial statements and 990's, or were used as exhibits by the plaintiffs already, or are publicly available articles by AToday. What's new? Next to nothing, after a wait of 8 months.
Where their recent filings say 2500 more pages have been given to us, I've only got 250, and they are nothing but Maritime printouts. Where it says about 200 pages of confidential stuff were given to us, 72 of that is a 3ABN publication that anyone can download off their website. Another 12 are public record in the property tax case.
So what in this mass of stuff vindicates 3ABN or Danny or proves us to be liars or wrong? I can't find a thing, but I did find stuff that is evidence that we were right all along.
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You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
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I don't know Habenero....
Were people demanding she repent of things she didn't do?
Was evidence presented against her she was not allowed to rebut or address, or made by anonymous or hidden accusers she couldn't face? was it never brought up by those who's duty it was to consider and weigh this and diligently seek out the truth?
The facts are; her church met in private as we are to do, her employer and board met in private as they by the laws of the land should, and only said what was kosher, and no more according to all the inquiries and questions asked of them, yet have been condemned for this ever since...
Wasn't she invited and welcome to attend and even asked to present her side, and even asked to present evidence or witnesses? I believe she was, but chose not to... Didn't even the controversial gag order supply a fair remedy and resolution process for any problems which she never availed herself of?
When ASI sought her side and any input, and said it necessary,did she give any except to say Joy represented her?
The letters from her board Chairman, her Pastor and ASI, all witness to the truth that she was given every opportunity...
Were you present or witness to all of this?
I don't think so...
So what basis do you have for your post here?
I would sincerely like to know.
You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
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I think there is enough evidence out there, Ian, to demonstrate that you are wrong. Remember that the May 4, 2004, ultimatum would have prevented her from being able to share her side with the board. And Danny refused to allow her to share her side to defend herself at her church trial.
If anyone had treated you that way, it would have been wrong as well.
The gag order was unethical in that a 3ABN document prevented her from saying anything critical about her ex-husband in a church building. The only way that makes sense to me is if 3ABN is a Shelton family business.
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Were you present at all of this? I don't think so. Then what basis do you have for your post here? Just because her accusers say she is guilty doesn't mean that she is, anymore than Gailon and Bob just saying that anyone is guilty means that they are. Have you talked with Linda? Do you know her? Have you asked her the questions about the various things you have said about her? Or are you simply making judgements based on talking only with her accusers - as you rebuke people for doing when they accuse 3ABN or Danny? I would sincerely like to know.
I don't know Habenero....
Were people demanding she repent of things she didn't do?
Was evidence presented against her she was not allowed to rebut or address, or made by anonymous or hidden accusers she couldn't face? was it never brought up by those who's duty it was to consider and weigh this and diligently seek out the truth?
The facts are; her church met in private as we are to do, her employer and board met in private as they by the laws of the land should, and only said what was kosher, and no more according to all the inquiries and questions asked of them, yet have been condemned for this ever since...
Wasn't she invited and welcome to attend and even asked to present her side, and even asked to present evidence or witnesses? I believe she was, but chose not to... Didn't even the controversial gag order supply a fair remedy and resolution process for any problems which she never availed herself of?
When ASI sought her side and any input, and said it necessary,did she give any except to say Joy represented her?
The letters from her board Chairman, her Pastor and ASI, all witness to the truth that she was given every opportunity...
Were you present or witness to all of this?
I don't think so...
So what basis do you have for your post here?
I would sincerely like to know.
You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
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According to her confession Ian should be honest enough to answer Habanero's question. Wasn't she an eye witness to all of this?
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Those persistent rebukes carry no weight when the rebukor is doing what they are rebuking the rebukee for. Consistency can a good thing, but consistency in inconsistency is not.
According to her confession Ian should be honest enough to answer Habanero's question. Wasn't she an eye witness to all of this?
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I do and have done so, and Inga's statement is correct.
FACT:
Bob Pickle knows none at 3ABN, ( nor do they know him except by the work he has engaged in against them) he was not involved nor witness to any of the hearsay he has reported, which he is being sued for, and has in fact never set foot at 3ABN.
Further-- He is asking 3ABN to provide evidence, so he can prove his claims against them in the lawsuit.
Why?
He is unable to do so based on what he has now, and as he is in error,will never be able to...
How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?
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Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.
If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! :(
How is that evident to you Inga?
Do you personally know any of the people beiing maligned, or being accused/rebuked of sin?
Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?
Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?
Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?
If not you are in grave danger my sister, and stand on VERY shaky ground. I say this in love and out of respect and concern, for I do, and have done so, and cannot agree with your judgment, and because of this know the Lord will not agree with what you claim is "evident", for HE is a righteous Judge, and is all about truth, grace and mercy.
It is a biblical fact that those who can not love others as he does, and who do not give mercy will recieve none, and as they judge, so they will be judged.
We all have a huge responsibility here, and will be held accountable for "every idle word"
Now, Ian,
You have been quite a talker, but it is time to produce...role out the evidence. We have rolled plenty on the website and others. We have most logically spoken to some of the same people you have, including Danny Lee Shelton and dozens of people who Danny has spoken to.
Today received additional confirmation from a person who taped at 3ABN during the period specifically stating that Danny was clear that Linda did not commit adultery!!! Linda claims she did not commit adultery. I have never seen Danny specifically affirm that there was adultery. Thompson has made the innuendo but witness after witness is very clear...NO ADULTERY. SO, IAN, tell me who has the evidence of ADULTERY? Remember, they will have to prove their case as well...and where is the evidence?
In fact, Ian, it is you that is on unsound ground...you have cannot prove your case...and I look forward to your sitting in the pews behind us as we roll out the evidence. I remind you, we were preparing for an ecclesiatical process and would have been very convincing. Judgment Day is coming closer by the day. Bring your kleenex so you can contain the tears!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?
Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?
It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.
For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...
3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"
The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...
The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...
Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
And wait til you see the inventory of documents...most of which are documents we gave to them...the rest are document extracted from...Black SDA...not the least bit substantive, and little admissable evidence, unless you are coming to testify!!! Maybe you could get a few into the record for them. Best of luck... the fact is the motion to compel is still on and we will pursue the production of thousands of real documents, preferably right at 3ABN where we can be sure we get the whole picture.
Want to join us?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?
Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?
It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.
For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...
3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"
The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...
The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...
Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...
The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...
This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..
Wake up people!
And wait til you see the inventory of documents...most of which are documents we gave to them...the rest are document extracted from...Black SDA...not the least bit substantive, and little admissable evidence, unless you are coming to testify!!! Maybe you could get a few into the record for them. Best of luck... the fact is the motion to compel is still on and we will pursue the production of thousands of real documents, preferably right at 3ABN where we can be sure we get the whole picture.
Want to join us?
Gailon Arthur Joy
Mr. Joy, never mind. Ian and her type preach and pontificate behind the facade of rebukes that reflect their own actions. They rebuke people for not talking to and knowing all parties in an issue, listening to one side and making judgements based on that, stating things about matters that they were not involved in, and making statements of fact that are unfactual. Is she guilty of all of the above? How else can people who survive and thrive on falcity as their ego stand go on? They have to change the subject or try to attack the person who exposes them in order to try distracting from their exposure as purveyors of falcity. Watch that happen now.
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How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?
Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.
Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred? :hot:
You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times). :help:
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This is what our friend Lee posted on 3abndefended:
Posted by: lee_0501 Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:05 pm
I'm surprised at the Advent Talk forum. Junebug spoke highly of the Ten Commandment week-end and they tore it all apart.
But I thought the meetings were fine. It was a surprise to see Elder Mike Tucker on the discussion panel. He is a good person. Of course not all on the panel would agree, (that is why there is a panel) but what I liked was the common ground they shared with these questions.
Of course Jim G. and Danny S. didn't talk very much simply because the panelists took over! I think if you lined up every SDA, you would get a different answer on that question about divorce and remarriage.
But how refreshing to know that the Panelists were Pastors, they wern't God. You know, they were human beings. Those are people who are born and die and who make mistakes. I thought they spoke up well and enjoyed it very much.
But then Mr. Pickle thought it "brazen" to have Danny Shelton and his sister Tammy on at the same time. I sure don't know what could be wrong with this. Because Mr. Pickle seems to imagine they have low morals (has he ever talked to them about this? Of course not) then how does he know what he "thinks" is true? He doesn't. He has absolutely NO proof of anything immoral by either person.
Be sure you read Ian's POWER over posts before you post on this site! read the last paragraph of Ian's rules.
Posted by: synthian2 Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:02 pm (Fran comment: synthian2 signed this post as Ian.}
... Posting here is a privilege and not a right, and any posts or replies you submit have to be approved before they can be viewed by the public as this group is moderated. (Paragraph 3)
... AS FORUM OWNER I ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE POSTING PRIVILEGES, OR POSTS, FILES ETC WITHOUT NOTICE OR EXPLANATION AT ANY TIME IF I DEEM THAT NECESSARY.
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Lee is not one to talk about morals, if Lee is the same Lee who over on BlackSDA tried to minimalize the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting.
And then when called on it, she refused to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.
It's so sick. Who would have ever dreamed that we'd have such in God's remnant, which is supposed to keep the commandments, now minimalize child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting?
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Twisting others words out of recognition may work with the small group here, but won't work in court. You can interpret for your masses, and your word is the opiate for a very small mass, but the courts are going to see through you like two cent silk.
Lee is not one to talk about morals, if Lee is the same Lee who over on BlackSDA tried to minimalize the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting.
And then when called on it, she refused to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.
It's so sick. Who would have ever dreamed that we'd have such in God's remnant, which is supposed to keep the commandments, now minimalize child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting?
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Obviously, you can't be talking about my comments regarding Lee's statement, since she really did suggest that the allegations against Tommy might not be so bad because the minor might have been consenting. And she really did refuse to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.
So which comments of mine were you instead referring to?
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How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?
Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.
Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred? :hot:
You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times). :help:
I might ask you the same questions. Can you prove Linda wasn't guilty and Danny is of all he has been accused of? Can you provide one shred of evidence of your own? Have you talked to Danny about any of it?
Let's use the same standards for everyone.
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YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.
And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!!
You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.
Any other questions, SAM???
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Lee from BlackSDA.com (http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=48&t=11955&view=findpost&p=167315):
Bob, you said out of the seven people supposedly molested by TS, one is under age over on Maritime. Did I understand you correctly?
If so, then six of the seven would be considered "consenting" adults. And perhaps even the one under age was consenting, who knows if any of this is true. I have my doubts not because you posted it or because Mr. Joy investigated this, but because none of the 7 prosecuted TS or took him to court. I would certainly suggest to them that they do so as soon as possible.
Perhaps even the one under age was consenting? Incredible, huh? Lee is definitely not an expert on morals.
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YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.
And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!!
You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.
Any other questions, SAM???
Gailon Arthur Joy
Just as I thought. You have interviewed men and women that have had contact...yada yada... that is called second hand information and heresay. You have not experienced anything yourself. Anyone can spread anything that they have been told by others. Case in point. A woman that I know told me that she knows you. Not well but well enough to know that you are a trouble maker, you like to leave landlords in the lurch, and you are basically a con man. Now just because she said it, does that make it true? I can say it does because I trust this persons word but biblically I have no right to make these accusations public since I didn't see or experience any of the allegations for myself. Even If I knew this was true from my own personal experience with you, my job would be to come to you face to face with my accusations, and not take it to the world. What you have done is contact every Dick and Harry that you have been told had conflicts with Danny and/or 3abn and you have taken their stories without proof, and made them public. How easy it is to get people to tell their one sided stories about someone that is their enemy. I could do the same with you. Anyone could. Dig a little, find out people you have had conflicts with then call them up and ask them what they think about Gailon Joy and I will guarantee you, I would get a headful. Don't mean what they are saying is true but I would still hear plenty, guarantee it. Some people just lie about their enemies. Other's are not lying but are telling their side from their perspective. But, we all know there is always another side that might change the whole picture of what you have been told.
Now you can give me one of your smart alec answers and argue all you want. But, you and I and God knows that every bit of what I have just said is the honest and logical truth. It's just people's nature and how they are. You choose to believe the bad, because you want to. Haven't heard of you or Pickle calling one person that loves Danny/3abn and wants to tell you about all the good things that have been done or how fair they were treated or how they were given second and third chances when they messed up their job and on and on and on. Weird how you just happen to miss hundreds of people that have nothing but good to say about Danny and 3abn all around.
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How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?
Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.
Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred? :hot:
You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times). :help:
I might ask you the same questions. Can you prove Linda wasn't guilty and Danny is of all he has been accused of? Can you provide one shred of evidence of your own? Have you talked to Danny about any of it?
Let's use the same standards for everyone.
I sure have talked a lot to Danny about this. And not only to him. Had meeting with a committee trying to solve the question at West Frankfurt. Phone calls, e-mail. Danny wrote me about 100 e-mails while this thing was going on. I tried to plead with him, but in vain. I'm glad you suggest we use the same standards for everyone. If we do, I know from my personal observations that Linda would soon be cleared of those accusations. So lets join hands and be fair and Christian about it.
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Sam doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that many of us have gone directly to Danny and Walt and others to get their side of the story, and they have very effectively convinced us that their critics were correct.
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YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.
And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!!
You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.
Any other questions, SAM???
Gailon Arthur Joy
Just as I thought. You have interviewed men and women that have had contact...yada yada... that is called second hand information and heresay.
Hey, SAM, people who actually spoke with the party is not Second Hand and do not qualify for "Hearsay" rule. And
You have not experienced anything yourself. Anyone can spread anything that they have been told by others. Case in point. A woman that I know told me that she knows you. Not well but well enough to know that you are a trouble maker, you like to leave landlords in the lurch, and you are basically a con man. Now just because she said it, does that make it true? I can say it does because I trust this persons word but biblically I have no right to make these accusations public since I didn't see or experience any of the allegations for myself. Even If I knew this was true from my own personal experience with you, my job would be to come to you face to face with my accusations, and not take it to the world. What you have done is contact every Dick and Harry that you have been told had conflicts with Danny and/or 3abn and you have taken their stories without proof, and made them public. How easy it is to get people to tell their one sided stories about someone that is their enemy. I could do the same with you. Anyone could. Dig a little, find out people you have had conflicts with then call them up and ask them what they think about Gailon Joy and I will guarantee you, I would get a headful. Don't mean what they are saying is true but I would still hear plenty, guarantee it. Some people just lie about their enemies. Other's are not lying but are telling their side from their perspective. But, we all know there is always another side that might change the whole picture of what you have been told.
And when does this other side actually show up with evidence in hand? Certainly not at trial if he cannot produce prior to the trial!!!
Now you can give me one of your smart alec answers and argue all you want. But, you and I and God knows that every bit of what I have just said is the honest and logical truth. It's just people's nature and how they are. You choose to believe the bad, because you want to. Haven't heard of you or Pickle calling one person that loves Danny/3abn and wants to tell you about all the good things that have been done or how fair they were treated or how they were given second and third chances when they messed up their job and on and on and on. Weird how you just happen to miss hundreds of people that have nothing but good to say about Danny and 3abn all around.
And so SAM, are you just hearsay or a party? If you are not a party, under your logic, just how would you know what the truth is??? I'll stick with the numbers, the witnesses and the documents. They will do all the speaking we need done.
And by the way, when did Linda Shelton get second and third chances? Had all these others, except the connected ones, used up their probations? Can't wait to hear about all these unqualified chances and the wonderful opportunities afforded these miscreants, without any conflicts that REQUIRED chances?
How do you explain Scott vs Tammy or Brad vs Tammy and the list can just go on? Better have some very good explanations why one must go while another stays and yada, yada, yada? Or was it all about the money and the connection??
And how will you explain all those true confessions made over the years regarding Tommy vs the boys and other issues?
Just can't wait for the saint to speak and try and pursuade a jury that he is what you claim he is, not with the documented story we have to tell.
Try again and by the way, where are those questions?
Gailon Arthur Joy
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Gailon,
It is not your court case against Danny and 3ABN. It is Danny and 3ABN’s court case against you and Bob Pickle. They will present the evidence of the charges brought against you and it will be up to you to defend yourselves. You will need more than the numbers, the witnesses and the so called documentation that you think you have. You will need more than a fictional story that you have pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals. You need to prove that the accusations that you have publicly made and continue to make against Danny and 3ABN are true. If you cannot do that right now, before court time, it only shows that you did not have the proof to have even made the accusations in the first place. Who needs a jury when the wrong doers hang themselves before even going to court?
Yes, Linda did have more than 2 or 3 chances and way beyond what most businesses would allow or give, but she did not avail herself to accept any of them. I am sorry that you do not want to see that.
Very sincerely,
Donna
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Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
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Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
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Gailon,
It is not your court case against Danny and 3ABN. It is Danny and 3ABN’s court case against you and Bob Pickle. They will present the evidence of the charges brought against you and it will be up to you to defend yourselves. You will need more than the numbers, the witnesses and the so called documentation that you think you have. You will need more than a fictional story that you have pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals. You need to prove that the accusations that you have publicly made and continue to make against Danny and 3ABN are true. If you cannot do that right now, before court time, it only shows that you did not have the proof to have even made the accusations in the first place. Who needs a jury when the wrong doers hang themselves before even going to court?
Yes, Linda did have more than 2 or 3 chances and way beyond what most businesses would allow or give, but she did not avail herself to accept any of them. I am sorry that you do not want to see that.
Very sincerely,
Donna
Donna, why do you make the assumption that all the allegations against Danny Shelton are formed by fictional stories that have been pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals? Do you have first person experience with the operation of 3ABN and Danny Shelton? There are those here who do. Just because they have a negative report concerning the activities of Danny Shelton does not make them disgruntled individuals. You may not like the picture that is being revealed of the character of Danny Shelton behind the scenes, but to dismiss the testimony of those who have personally dealt with him by labeling them all as disgruntled individuals is naive at best. Seeing Danny at campmeeting or meeting him on tour is not the same as living in Thompsonville, working at 3ABN, being a member of the Thompsonville church or having almost daily contact with him. All of us have two sides, the public and the private. Hopefully, as Christians, the two should be close in nature. But that is not always the case. From my experience with Danny and the experience of many others, the two faces of Danny Shelton can be almost unrecognizable. Even for those of us that have experienced both it is difficult to reconcile the two as one individual.
Sister
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Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
And so folks, can we also believe that all of what Ian presents is what she thinks and believes, and one could argue with her opinions of herself, and her conclusions, but for what purpose? What has she seen herself? On whose testimony does she base her facts? She and others are evaluating the second hand sources she bases her opinions on. How can she prove they are as trustworthy as the happenings some of us have experienced ourselves?
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Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
And so folks, can we also believe that all of what Ian presents is what she thinks and believes, and one could argue with her opinions of herself, and her conclusions, but for what purpose? What has she seen herself? On whose testimony does she base her facts? She and others are evaluating the second hand sources she bases her opinions on. How can she prove they are as trustworthy as the happenings some of us have experienced ourselves?
Unlike, Pickle, may I suggest that no one take my word for anything, nor Johanns or any others.
Look at what is posted, look at the facts and diligently search out the truth and background and examine both sides and all sides and all the evidence available and every option before drawing any conclusions. Prove all things and hold fast that which is good for yourselves. And if it can't be proved then reserve judgment till and if it is.
Make sense, Johann?
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Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
And so folks, can we also believe that all of what Ian presents is what she thinks and believes, and one could argue with her opinions of herself, and her conclusions, but for what purpose? What has she seen herself? On whose testimony does she base her facts? She and others are evaluating the second hand sources she bases her opinions on. How can she prove they are as trustworthy as the happenings some of us have experienced ourselves?
Unlike, Pickle, may I suggest that no one take my word for anything, nor Johanns or any others.
Look at what is posted, look at the facts and diligently search out the truth and background and examine both sides and all sides and all the evidence available and every option before drawing any conclusions. Prove all things and hold fast that which is good for yourselves. And if it can't be proved then reserve judgment till and if it is.
Make sense, Johann?
Not at all. Not in what I have experienced from you yet.
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Ian, you have stated that you know nothing from first hand experience. We have no reason to believe or trust anything you state as fact (and you have made many such statements). Johann, on the other hand, is a pastor and conference leader who is unquestionably established as a participant and first hand witness to much of what you admittedly know absolutely nothing about except through the rumormill. Don't try to equate someone like him with something like you.
You talk about chest thumping? Torquemada and thousands of other blood-thirsty inquisitors and religious monsters have thumped Bibles like you and your type are doing now. Few are fooled by your venomous facade of Pharisaical religiosity.
Linda is a first hand participant, and so is Sister. You are nothing more than a person far removed who has no experience or personal knowledge at all. That makes you a malicious rumormonger and nothing more or better than that. Others have presented documentation, but you have presented nothing more than defamatory rumors. You have made statements of fact that are absolute lies in your efforts to disparage and tear down people who actually are decent and honest human beings. You are exactly what you are accusing Gailon a Bob of being.
You know nothing and you are nothing in this saga, but you seem to be trying to be something by pretending to know and be what you absolutely are not. Your facade of religiosity is utterly absurd and is an embarrassment.
Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
And so folks, can we also believe that all of what Ian presents is what she thinks and believes, and one could argue with her opinions of herself, and her conclusions, but for what purpose? What has she seen herself? On whose testimony does she base her facts? She and others are evaluating the second hand sources she bases her opinions on. How can she prove they are as trustworthy as the happenings some of us have experienced ourselves?
Unlike, Pickle, may I suggest that no one take my word for anything, nor Johanns or any others.
Look at what is posted, look at the facts and diligently search out the truth and background and examine both sides and all sides and all the evidence available and every option before drawing any conclusions. Prove all things and hold fast that which is good for yourselves. And if it can't be proved then reserve judgment till and if it is.
Make sense, Johann?
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Ian, you have stated that you know nothing from first hand experience. We have no reason to believe or trust anything you state as fact (and you have made many such statements). Johann, on the other hand, is a pastor and conference leader who is unquestionably established as a participant and first hand witness to much of what you admittedly know absolutely nothing about except through the rumormill. Don't try to equate someone like him with something like you.
You talk about chest thumping? Torquemada and thousands of other blood-thirsty inquisitors and religious monsters have thumped Bibles like you and your type are doing now. Few are fooled by your venomous facade of Pharisaical religiosity.
Linda is a first hand participant, and so is Sister. You are nothing more than a person far removed who has no experience or personal knowledge at all. That makes you a malicious rumormonger and nothing more or better than that. Others have presented documentation, but you have presented nothing more than defamatory rumors. You have made statements of fact that are absolute lies in your efforts to disparage and tear down people who actually are decent and honest human beings. You are exactly what you are accusing Gailon a Bob of being.
You know nothing and you are nothing in this saga, but you seem to be trying to be something by pretending to know and be what you absolutely are not. Your facade of religiosity is utterly absurd and is an embarrassment.
Ian
In all sincerity, I really hope that you will take on board Habanero's comments and advice here. Before you go fuming away and writing more poison, what about prayerfully considering what has been stated here?
I'm sure that there's no one person here who would want to think of one soul lost to the Kingdom; especially due to pride and arrogance. Consider carefully, the wisdom and concern contained in these words.
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Will we get a response to this statement made almost three years ago? Truth does not change regardless of how many people call it lies, or do not believe it.
Ian, you have stated that you know nothing from first hand experience. We have no reason to believe or trust anything you state as fact (and you have made many such statements). Johann, on the other hand, is a pastor and conference leader who is unquestionably established as a participant and first hand witness to much of what you admittedly know absolutely nothing about except through the rumormill. Don't try to equate someone like him with something like you.
You talk about chest thumping? Torquemada and thousands of other blood-thirsty inquisitors and religious monsters have thumped Bibles like you and your type are doing now. Few are fooled by your venomous facade of Pharisaical religiosity.
Linda is a first hand participant, and so is Sister. You are nothing more than a person far removed who has no experience or personal knowledge at all. That makes you a malicious rumormonger and nothing more or better than that. Others have presented documentation, but you have presented nothing more than defamatory rumors. You have made statements of fact that are absolute lies in your efforts to disparage and tear down people who actually are decent and honest human beings. You are exactly what you are accusing Gailon a Bob of being.
You know nothing and you are nothing in this saga, but you seem to be trying to be something by pretending to know and be what you absolutely are not. Your facade of religiosity is utterly absurd and is an embarrassment.
Donna, I think you are mistaken.
Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.
For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.
Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?
Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?
We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.
And so folks, can we also believe that all of what Ian presents is what she thinks and believes, and one could argue with her opinions of herself, and her conclusions, but for what purpose? What has she seen herself? On whose testimony does she base her facts? She and others are evaluating the second hand sources she bases her opinions on. How can she prove they are as trustworthy as the happenings some of us have experienced ourselves?
Unlike, Pickle, may I suggest that no one take my word for anything, nor Johanns or any others.
Look at what is posted, look at the facts and diligently search out the truth and background and examine both sides and all sides and all the evidence available and every option before drawing any conclusions. Prove all things and hold fast that which is good for yourselves. And if it can't be proved then reserve judgment till and if it is.
Make sense, Johann?