Advent Talk
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: patsi on January 27, 2008, 12:30:55 PM
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I am little unsure of where this :-[might be considered appropriate. I am so
angry and so disheartened and heartsick that I almost don't know where to
begin.
I will tell you right upfront I am not a Seventh Day Advent. Several years
ago I began to feel the need for a connection to God in my life and began
searching the internet. I was directed to an advent forum and joined.
What I have found is a cold, spiteful destructive God with cold spiteful
followers.
Some recent occurrences have shown this so clearly and I am now wondering
what path to take.
I have witnessed the systematic and quite delightful destruction of one.
Like a pack of crazed dogs after what is seen as helpless prey.
What good is all the talk of God and his love when everything about God is
shown to be just the opposite by their behavior?
I have some experience in the field of paralegals and what I have witnessed
is shocking libel and slander. I don't know that there is anything here for
me as a Christian forum, in my secular life dealing with those that have no
particular belief in a God I do not find this. What is there in God or a
religion that I should desire that connection or knowledge of him?
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I would also be interested in learning if there is some type of governing
board for your organization?
Some where that a person could go and be listened to without being a member.
Someone needs to try to stop the Christian slaughter being done. Does your
organization care if this is how they are represented by parties they employ
to represent them?
Sadly this seems to indicate a very deep problem.
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I would also be interested in learning if there is some type of governing
board for your organization?
Some where that a person could go and be listened to without being a member.
Someone needs to try to stop the Christian slaughter being done. Does your
organization care if this is how they are represented by parties they employ
to represent them?
Sadly this seems to indicate a very deep problem.
Patsi,
Welcome to this forum, and thank you for asking if there is a God who is - shall we say Not vicious and victive?
If you remain here, some of us will communicate with you, and try to reveal a God we love and adore.
This forum was actually started because some of us feel that certain people are being "crucified" in spite of certain people's confession. Therefore you might, at first look, find certain expressions offensive.
As a paralegal you might be just the person we need to clarify certain issues. So thank you for joining.
My wife is calling for me to go to bed now, and I should have been there quite a while back. - We are in Europe.
Stay tuned, and we will get back to you.
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I am little unsure of where this :-[might be considered appropriate. I am so
angry and so disheartened and heartsick that I almost don't know where to
begin.
I will tell you right upfront I am not a Seventh Day Advent. Several years
ago I began to feel the need for a connection to God in my life and began
searching the internet. I was directed to an advent forum and joined.
What I have found is a cold, spiteful destructive God with cold spiteful
followers.
Some recent occurrences have shown this so clearly and I am now wondering
what path to take.
I have witnessed the systematic and quite delightful destruction of one.
Like a pack of crazed dogs after what is seen as helpless prey.
What good is all the talk of God and his love when everything about God is
shown to be just the opposite by their behavior?
I have some experience in the field of paralegals and what I have witnessed
is shocking libel and slander. I don't know that there is anything here for
me as a Christian forum, in my secular life dealing with those that have no
particular belief in a God I do not find this. What is there in God or a
religion that I should desire that connection or knowledge of him?
Hello Patsi. Nice to see you here. Your question is a legitimate one. Just this morning, I receive a devotional article that I would like to share with you. I believe that we need to remember that there is a war going on, and satan wants to snare all of us. Here is the devotional reminder:
The Battlefield
We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph. 6: 12.
The fallen world is the battlefield for the greatest conflict the heavenly universe and earthly powers have ever witnessed. It was appointed as a theater on which would be fought out the grand struggle between good and evil, between heaven and hell. Every human being acts a part in this conflict. No one can stand on neutral ground. Men must either accept or reject the world's Redeemer. All are witnesses, either for or against Christ. Christ calls upon those who stand under His banner to engage in the conflict with Him as faithful soldiers, that they may inherit the crown of life.
Battles are to be fought every day. A great warfare is going on over every soul, between the prince of darkness and the Prince of life. . . . As God's agents you are to yield yourselves to Him, that He may plan and direct and fight the battle for you, with your cooperation. The Prince of life is at the head of His work. He is to be with you in your daily battle with self, that you may be true to principle; that passion, when warring for the mastery, may be subdued by the grace of Christ; that you come off more than conqueror through Him that hath loved us. Jesus has been over the ground. He knows the power of every temptation. He knows just how to meet every emergency, and how to guide you through every path of danger.
God will have a people zealous of good works, standing firm amid the pollutions of this degenerate age. There will be a people who hold so fast to the divine strength that they will be proof against every temptation. Evil communications in flaming handbills may seek to speak to their senses and corrupt their minds; yet they will be so united to God and angels that they will be as those who see not and hear not. They have a work to do which no one can do for them, which is to fight the good fight of faith, and lay
hold on eternal life. . . .
The youth may have principles so firm that the most powerful temptations of Satan will not draw them away from their allegiance.
From God's Amazing Grace - Page 35[/color]
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Hey old friend, so happy to see you here. Hope you are well. Have really missed you from the old board
Bonnie
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Hey old friend, so happy to see you here. Hope you are well. Have really missed you from the old board
Bonnie
Good to see you too Bonnie. Catching up with quite a few old friends here. Life gets so busy at times, that there are few hours left in a day to even get over to Forums; not that I don't think of it though. ;D
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I closed SNT. Could not do it justice any longer.
OPPS, best keep on topic here
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Thank you for your nice post. I am not sure of the route I should take.
So far what I have observed; it does not matter how nasty you are or how much
trouble you cause with a sly,conniving mouth. All that matters is how much
you can repeat of scripture and use it to your advantage.
I asked for a place to go or a recommendation as to who to talk with. I
can't help the people under attack but dealing with leaders and their
response will tell me what I want to know. If what they care about is their
performance from a podium or in front of a microphone or protect their
employees in this type of vicious and gleeful destruction of another, my
questions will be answered. If there is concern for one ,whoever that one is,
or how hated, that will provide another type answer.
I have checked various Christian forums and have never run across so much
hatred run amuck. I have also found just social forums and they do not
conduct themselves as this.They have standards, they know what they are and
they do not allow this.
Perhaps I should be content with a social forum where they treat each other
as human beings and not prey for a certain few. I have been disturbed enough
this past couple of weeks religious interaction action and education doesn't
seem too important in the wake of this.
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Thank you for your nice post. I am not sure of the route I should take. So far what I have observed; it does not matter how nasty you are or how much trouble you cause with a sly,conniving mouth. All that matters is how much you can repeat of scripture and use it to your advantage.
I am sorry that is all you see Patsi. I guess one sees whatever it is that they are looking for and unless one wants to see otherwise, there is nothing others can do about it. People have choices, whether to follow God or follow man. At times, as people become wealthy, increased with goods and get world-known fame, they tend to lose sight of God. That is very sad. When corruption creeps into ANY church as a result of that, it is important to recognise it and call sin by it's true name, do whatever one can do to help clean up the mess and be representative of Christ and then leave the rest with Him, Who knows and understands the hearts of all those involved. Wherever there are people, unfortunately there will be problems - whether that be in the Church, a tennis club or some other social club.
I asked for a place to go or a recommendation as to who to talk with. I can't help the people under attack but dealing with leaders and their response will tell me what I want to know. If what they care about is their performance from a podium or in front of a microphone or protect their employees in this type of vicious and gleeful destruction of another, my questions will be answered. If there is concern for one whoever that one is, or how hated, that will provide another type answer.
Exactly Patsi. I am sure that you will find most of the posters here think as you do.
I have checked various Christian forums and have never run across so much hatred run amuck. I have also found just social forums and they do not conduct themselves as this.They have standards, they know what they are and they do not allow this.
Perhaps I should be content with a social forum where they treat each other as human beings and not prey for a certain few. I have been disturbed enough this past couple of weeks religious interaction action and education doesn't seem too important in the wake of this.
Have you seen "hatred run amuck" in this Forum Patsi? If you have, I am sorry you have taken it that way. Remember that even Christ chased the money lenders (corruption), out of the Temple.
Just one question Patsi. How did you come to find AdventTalk? Did someone send you here? As this Forum has been open less than a week (if my memory serves me correctly), it seems strange that you are taking all your views on Christianity from this Forum alone. Perhaps we can help you delve deeper. Maybe, you need to also look at other Christan web sites, if this one distresses you deeply. I am sure that no one here wants you to go, but neither do we want people to be unhappy here. Why not stay awhile and not be too hasty to jump to conclusions? Maybe, you'd like to visit the Sabbath School site among others. :dunno:
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Ozzie,
I really do not know much about this forum. I was by a friend that is a member some place else that is connected to this one in some way.
This is only an experience that I am/were having in other places.
I have made it a habit of just observing and I will take a clue and revert back to that approach.
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Observing is good, patsi, but if your friend directed you here from another site, then you already know at least some of the social context that AdventTalk came out of. Trust me, a lot of the context is not on this site -- in fact, getting it all would be quite a chore. What may look harsh may actually have some explanation, even justification.
Coming into a controversial situation, which it seems you know of already, is not the best way to ascertain the value of a spiritual movement or denomination. We're sinners, all of us, and despite the fact that AdventTalk was explicitly intended as a respectful forum, I'm sorry you found the discussions to be less-than.
Compare it to a family conflict -- would you want your neighbors to judge how much your family unit loves each other based on a few moments of fighting or conflict? I sure wouldn't. :dunno:
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Observing is good, patsi, but if your friend directed you here from another site, then you already know at least some of the social context that AdventTalk came out of. Trust me, a lot of the context is not on this site -- in fact, getting it all would be quite a chore. What may look harsh may actually have some explanation, even justification.
Coming into a controversial situation, which it seems you know of already, is not the best way to ascertain the value of a spiritual movement or denomination. We're sinners, all of us, and despite the fact that AdventTalk was explicitly intended as a respectful forum, I'm sorry you found the discussions to be less-than.
Compare it to a family conflict -- would you want your neighbors to judge how much your family unit loves each other based on a few moments of fighting or conflict? I sure wouldn't. :dunno:
Wise advice SE.
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I'm sorry you found the discussions to be less-than.
I am new here, Ive not yet found this board to be like others yet.
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I am new here, Ive not yet found this board to be like others yet.
Good to see that you are still here, patsi.
You said you have seem people presenting a vicious god. In which way?
Does this prevent you from believing in God?
Johann
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I am going to withdraw and observe in places trying to observe and find some
answers. At the time I am no longer interested in having it sound as if
I came to cause trouble.
I do not wish to cause any one any problems and the insight I was looking
for is no longer a quest of mine. Thank you for your time
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Dear Patsi,
Welcome to this forum! :) (Sorry I'm late in welcoming you, but I've been away...)
I'm so sorry you had such a negative experience in cyberspace!!
I am little unsure of where this :-[might be considered appropriate. I am so
angry and so disheartened and heartsick that I almost don't know where to
begin.
I will tell you right upfront I am not a Seventh Day Advent. Several years
ago I began to feel the need for a connection to God in my life and began
searching the internet. I was directed to an advent forum and joined.
What I have found is a cold, spiteful destructive God with cold spiteful
followers.
That you found "cold spiteful followers," I can well believe. Not all who profess to be followers of God truly know Him. As a matter of fact, when God Himself walked this earth in the person of Jesus Christ, those who most seriously professed to follow Him -- the most "pious" of them all -- murdered Him in the most cruel manner.
But God allowed Himself to be spitefully treated so that you and I might spend eternity in a loving relationship with Him and others who truly love Him and His created beings.
So I really don't know how you could find a "cold, spiteful destructive God" -- providing, of course, you were referring to the God of the Bible.
God's foremost characteristic is love. What we often seem to forget, though, is that there is no genuine love without justice and discipline. Those of us who are parents ought to know, t though. Children that are "loved" without discipline are not truly loved at all, because only through discipline are they prepared for the realities of life. And only through discipline will they develop an admirable character.
In the same way, God disciplines those He loves. Sometimes the recipients of the discipline don't appreciate it -- like the toddler who shouts at His mother, "I hate you!" afte being denied the indulgence of His whim.
On the other hand, there is also an enemy of God at work in the affairs of humanity. Not all that happens is the result of God's direct will. God has chosen to allow men and women the privilege of free will. That means the ability to choose to do wrong. And through wrong choices, Satan has control of much of this planet. And that control means that the innocent suffer here. Fortunately, this life is but a moment, and God is fully able to more than make up for the injustices of this life in the eternity to come.
I do hope that you are still reading, Patsi, and that you will continue to ask questions when you have them.
[By the way, Daryl, thanks for adding some more smilies. Looking forward to others.]
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God is still good.
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God is still good.
All the time, no matter what happens. :praying:
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All the time, no matter what happens. :praying:
So we should be happ-y!
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What I have found is a cold, spiteful destructive God with cold spiteful
followers.
I wish I'd seen this earlier before Patsi left. Her statement reminds me much about my observations of Christians in general (and SDA's specifically) when I was a witch. If it hadn't been for a handful of SDA ministers I would still be stirring my pot, because by and large, the picture I was getting of God was as a tyrant, writing down all my sins in a book, which would then be read to everyone on this planet and other planets, and I would be thrown into hell for drinking a Starbucks Coffee and wearing earrings.
Cold and vicious people seem so common in some SDA-oriented Christian forums. I was going to leave the church, specifically because of the treatment I received from SDA Christians. God was seldom in the forefront. People would post things, such as "we need to be forgiving" - then turn around and stick a knife in someone's back. Not a good presentation of Christianity at work. Unfortunately it is usually the loudest, most verbose and obnoxious members who tie up the forum and give it a bad name. But visitors don't know that.
The problem is that for new Christians, such as me, we don't yet have a good grasp of who God really is. We get our ideas from the people who profess to be followers - disciples - of Christ. It always irks me when people say "You need to look at Jesus, not at people." Well, folks, if one doesn't have a good idea of how Christ/God is, then the way to know Him is through his followers. Sorta like Jesus saying if people see Him, they have seen the Father (sorry - I don't have the text.....am still in remedial Bible reading). So if a non-Christian sees a professed Christian behaving in less-than-honorable ways, that is going to be the picture he/she has of that person's God.
Why do people need God? I wondered that myself sometimes. Aside from sustaining life on earth (which pagans believe their goddesses/gods do), why do people need God? Protection? same with pagans. Power? same with pagans. So what do we need that only God can supply? The only thing that God did that no pagan goddess or god can or would or could do, was to die so the human race could live. Grace. Why do I need God? Because He's probably the only one who completely understands me at the moment. (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g271/Makualla/smiley_runningyellow.gif)
p.s. I forgot to write an introduction. I'm Charis. Live in the Pacific NW of the US. Grew up SDA, understood absolutely nothing about God and Christ; became a witch, hedgewitch to be specific. That means I used plants for healing, but also cast runes, etc. No I never cast spells on people....the toads you see are really toads. (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g271/Makualla/smiley_peace.gif)
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One thing we know for certain, which is that the devil is the one portraying God as vicious and destructive, whereas we see God as He really is in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
John 3:16 portrays God as He really is, as God who so loved the world that......
We, therefore, see God as a loving God, but also as a just God in the sense that His love for the world can not forgive the sin in the world without a penalty being paid, which is where the Plan of Salvation entered into the picture, as explained in the rest of John 3:16 in that God gave His only begotten Son as the Lamb of God who took our sins upon Himself and paid the penalty of our sins on the tree of Calvary.
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I am little unsure of where this :-[might be considered appropriate. I am so angry and so disheartened and heartsick that I almost don't know where to begin.
I will tell you right upfront I am not a Seventh Day Advent. Several years ago I began to feel the need for a connection to God in my life and began searching the internet. I was directed to an advent forum and joined.
What I have found is a cold, spiteful destructive God with cold spiteful followers.
Patsi, I find what you say in here is inconsistent with what you have stated in another thread.
Why must you always demean the Seventh Day Adventist church with your accusations?
That is always what you seem to be doing. What abuse forum for survivors/victims have? I take it it no longer exsists because as you know, it is not something that Seventh Day Adventists consider a real problem because we deal with it within the church as any good Seventh Day Adventists will do. Seventh Day Adventists are interested in abuse should it be the proven abuse. Many do not have proven abuse and why damage someones reputation if it is not true? What would the point of that be? "
So, are you a Seventh-day Adventist or are you not?
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I was going to close this topic for staff review, however, in light of the last post here in which a question has been asked by the Forum Moderator of this forum, I have decided to leave it open.
This topic, however, is presently under staff review.
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It seems so many are so against anything Bonnie says, it gets confusing. How can so many be wrong?
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Patsi,
When you say so many, what is the actual number?
The oppossition comes from a few, the same few that have been oppossing for over six years. Always refusing to discuss or consider the real issue, everytine wanting and manufacturing their own to cement an idea in the minds of those to afraid to speak out.
Why do you supposse that the offer to lay it all out, settle the dispute and clear the air as to honesty, was not only ignored,refused, but run from the topic as fast as possible? I am not afraid of it. I have no problem laying all out that deals with this topic. When we so smugly say "Truth Can Stand Investigation" and run from a particular investigation, it may give you a clue
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You know Bonnie, it might be easier just to put it all out there. It would give others a chance to at least decide who is being truthful in this.
Do you know the actual numbers yourself? You say you have been involved with this for so long? What is the actual number. I do not know the actual number.
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You know Bonnie, it might be easier just to put it all out there. It would give others a chance to at least decide who is being truthful in this.
Do you know the actual numbers yourself? You say you have been involved with this for so long? What is the actual number. I do not know the actual number.
Your first statement is really at the heart of the matter. truthful about what? My desire to see our denomintion lead in this instead of some desperate attempt to grab the tail? Or some phoney, cheap forgivness as the end result of what we could have prevented in the first place.
My purpose, if I choose to do that of laying it all out,is not to do so to prove a reason for that proactive stance. It says a lot about the reasoning and I believe honesty of those that think a petty revenge on their part is more christian than acting pro-actively.
I have made a decision to begin assembling in order events as they have transpired regarding my honesty in this matter. I have the means to place the information on a private, closed,by invitation only website. There is much there concerning the help some tried to give in resolving this situation. I need to check the rights to use your personal e-mails and correspondence as you see fit. Excluding blackmail of course.
In some respects those that were in a position to help were suucessful,they will soon be contacted to review their part and statements concerning this. No discussion will be allowed, only written records can be presented. They need to have the opportunity to know nothing has been deleted or edited.
It will be full and complete expousure. . Then I will make the decision as to whether that expousure includes those that wish to use factual information in hopes of implementing pro-active measures in this and stop the spread of malicious misinformation. The disclousure here is inappropriate.
I cannot give you a timetable. It will be that one time that pushes this over the edge from speculation to full disclousure. That one abuse, that one lie, fabrication. That one incident that can no longer be ignored in the light of damage being done
As the the numbers that actually get in there and fabricate and obscure, numbers are five or less for those I personally deal with or have in the past. It is the same ones, giving objections based on their own fabricated inuendo's and interests.
The numbers that circle the wagons in a desperate attempt to hold their coats cannot be counted.
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Well Bonnie, if people are lying, maybe they need to be exposed. Ever think of that?
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Well Bonnie, if people are lying, maybe they need to be exposed. Ever think of that?
Many times. There will be a time and place
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"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown... The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is as last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." E.G. White, The Great Controversy, p.36.
The reason why so many of us adventists fail to appreciate the principles of God's dealings with sin is, I believe, because we have not allowed the Bible to be its own interpreter in the face of many passages of Scriptures which seem to contradict the above statement. Rightly understood the Bible teaches what the above statement says but we need to sink the shaft deeper into the mine of truth in order to discern its deep truths.
sky
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One thing for certain is that God is neither vicious nor destructive, however, He is just and merciful and forgiving.