Advent Talk
Issues & Concerns Category => 3ABN => Topic started by: horsethief on September 08, 2010, 10:51:50 PM
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We are all anticipating what the outcome of this trial might be...
But if Tommy Shelton's sentence turns out to be lenient and he re-enters the community at any time soon. Make no mistake about this. The community where he resides will be well-informed of exactly who he is and what his crimes are. They will also be informed that his propensity is to continue his pedophilia based on his past history.
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I am positive he will,, at the very least be required to register as a sex offender where ever he goes.
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I don't mean registered as a sex offender, which he would have to be. But how many of them are out there that the general public really doesn't take time to notice?
There are members of this site who will make the community very aware of who he is. We will also make the community very aware of who the people are that sought to keep this dangerous predator from being prosecuted...
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15 days until sentencing.
horsethief, what community is Tommy living in now? Is that community aware of his crimes now?
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This is a problem isn't it? I know of several sex offenders who have served their time, been chemically treated, and they are still driven from community to community as the information is "shared" with each community.
Do we need to put them on the island I mentioned, also? Sounds funny, but I am serious with this one. nobody wants to take the chance of having them in their neighborhoods. Problem 2, will Danny and 3ABN then continue to also operate in a state of denial and continue to let TS work or even live at 3ABN....kind of on the down low(if you know what I mean) Swear the entire compound to secrecy and all?
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Still anticipating
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I love that "chemically treated". What happens when they stop taking their meds? they can do that at any time? There aren't enough agents out there to keep watch over them. House arrest is good-with ankle bracelets, but even then they sometimes cut them off. I know they serve their time and some deserve a second chance(depending on the crime) boyfriend and girlfriend-underage] but not those like Tommy- if he is determined guilty. An Island of their own- Death Valley??? Alcatraz???? Somewhere in the middle of a dessert?????
I have a sex offender, actually several in my area- one works at the neighborhood tire store. Go to your State Police site and you can find where the sex offenders live and what they did.
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Bob... I don't know at this time...
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15 days until sentencing.
horsethief, what community is Tommy living in now? Is that community aware of his crimes now?
Is Tommy still required to not leave VA?
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
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A dangeroue predator still lurks as long as he is not in custody.
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I read somewhere that he sold his house in KY. If he is allowed to leave VA, where is he living now? Someone must know.
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
Now I've heard that that was incorrect, that he has not been able to leave Virginia.
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
Now I've heard that that was incorrect, that he has not been able to leave Virginia.
Like imprisoned in Virginia - for how long now?
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sex offenders register and still live and work where they want to... We have one who works at the tire place in our town-a few doors down from the Library and a couple blocks from the School. Of course the Police Dept is across the street and the town is so small everyone knows everyone else, but, still- I moved to this town and didn't know it and don't know him...
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
Now I've heard that that was incorrect, that he has not been able to leave Virginia.
Like imprisoned in Virginia - for how long now?
I doubt he's imprisoned, unless one considers the entire state a prison.
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He's not in jail now, he's made bail and that keeps him out of it until he gets remanded to be in prison.
Still, it is important that we pray that justice and mercy are shown in this situation. The best justice and the most merciful for Tommy is a life sentence in a state prison with the general prison population. This will ensure that no other children will be stalked and attacked by him.
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I thought his plea bargain, called for no jail or prison time?
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Isn't that really up to the judge to decide?
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Judge wasn't pleased with the initial plea that kept Tommy out of prison... Which is a good sign that he could be going to prison...
We all know what he has done & we also know that he's young enough and healthy enough to do it again.
That's why we should pray that this most loathsome of predators is sent to prison and made to stay with the general prison population.
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If the judge wasn't pleased, then what happens next?
Will Tommy be given a chance to change his plea, or will the judge sentence him?
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I have the same question, what happens when the judge doesn't like the plea?
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If the judge doesn't accept it, Tommy can withdraw the plea if he wants to, or perhaps he can accept the sentence the judge gives him. What if the judge gave him 30 or 60 days in jail? That wouldn't be all that big a deal, and Tommy could evade the stress of it having to go to trial, and possibly ending up with 10 years or whatever.
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This link leads to the articles in the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071904825.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071904825.html)
Below is the most recent article.
Ex-pastor of Fairfax church pleads guilty to molesting two boys in the 1990s
By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 20, 2010
The former pastor of a Fairfax County church pleaded guilty Monday to molesting two boys who were under his supervision in the 1990s, and Fairfax prosecutors agreed to a deal in which the man would spend no time in jail.
But Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Randy I. Bellows said he might not accept the deal, in which case the defendant, Tommy R. Shelton Jr., could withdraw his plea and take the case to another judge.
Shelton, 65, was the pastor of Community Church of God in the Dunn Loring area from 1995 to 2000. Authorities said two men contacted Fairfax police in 2008 and said that Shelton had sexually assaulted them in the 1990s.
Shelton, who had been living in Kentucky, was arrested in March.
Both accusers were in the courtroom for Shelton's pleas to two felony counts of taking indecent liberties with a child under his supervision. Each charge carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Both said afterward that they approved of the plea deal, although it doesn't include jail time, as long as Shelton acknowledges his guilt and is placed on a sex offender registry.
One of the men testified at a hearing in May that Shelton had performed oral sex on him in 1995 or 1996, when the man was 14, and Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Katherine E. Stott confirmed that account Monday. Shelton had been seeing the boy for counseling and piano lessons, Stott said, and had told him that their sexual activities were "the type of relationship a father and son had."
The other man also testified in May. He said that when he was 11, he and Shelton would go for bike rides and that Shelton would direct him into the woods and fondle him. Stott said that on one occasion, Shelton molested the boy in the kitchen of the Community Church of God on Gallows Road.
Bellows, a former federal prosecutor, seemed skeptical of a plea bargain with no jail time. "I'm telling you all right now," the judge said, "I may ultimately reject this agreement."
Shelton has been free on bond. Bellows said that without the plea agreement, he "would have little doubt about incarcerating the defendant pending sentencing." But prosecutors did not ask for Shelton's bond to be revoked, or for any jail sentence, so he allowed Shelton to remain free.
Bellows asked the prosecutor why she had agreed to the plea deal proposed by defense attorneys Kimberly Irving and Thomas Pavlinic. Stott said that she had discussed the proposal with the two complainants, along with the risks and burdens of going to trial, and that they had accepted it.
She said the only evidence would be the two men's testimony about the events of 15 years ago. Shelton had not spoken to police and had no criminal record, she said.
After the hearing, the two men said they would be prepared to testify if the judge rejects the plea deal and Shelton goes to trial.
"It's been a long time coming," said one of the men, 24.
The other man, 29, said: "He's taken something from me I'll never get back. . . . As long as he's admitted guilt and he's a registered sex offender, that he can't do this to others, that's really what I wanted."
Shelton declined to comment after the hearing. Bellows ordered a pre-sentence report and set a sentencing hearing for Sept. 24, at which he will decide whether to accept the plea deal.
If Bellows rejects the deal, Shelton can withdraw his plea or proceed with sentencing, at which the judge could give him up to 10 years in prison.
If Shelton withdraws his plea, the case would be assigned to another judge, and Shelton, his attorneys and Stott could devise another plea agreement, submit the same agreement to the new judge or go to trial.
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Have Mercy! I know these facts are not new, but everytime I see them, I just smh. Thanks, Bob and Just Wondering, that answers my question. I wonder which way it will go. I thougth TS was older than that......he could still go to jail, some have at his age.........
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A convicted felon enters prison with the general population. Having to share a cell with 3 or 4 other prisoners. Each of them with access to the TV and newspaper and aware of the local news. Many of them may have children of their own. They shudder to think that they can't be in the community to shield and protect their own children from sexual predators, whom they know are prevalent in society. It makes them very frustrated.
Among prison populations in the USA, a crime against a child is not highly regarded. Correction officers tend to share the disdain that the prisoners have.
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Only four days, and then?
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
Now I've heard that that was incorrect, that he has not been able to leave Virginia.
Like imprisoned in Virginia - for how long now?
I doubt he's imprisoned, unless one considers the entire state a prison.
First time posting, but I have been following closely... It is my understanding that TS has been living near his daughter in Mississippi.
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I heard that he was allowed to leave the state after his guilty-plea hearing.
Now I've heard that that was incorrect, that he has not been able to leave Virginia.
Like imprisoned in Virginia - for how long now?
I doubt he's imprisoned, unless one considers the entire state a prison.
First time posting, but I have been following closely... It is my understanding that TS has been living near his daughter in Mississippi.
Legally or Illegally? Does anyone know for certain what the judge ordered at the July court date?
It would be interesting to know who has been housing him since March in VA. Whoever it is, I wonder if their feelings changed after he plead guilty in July. I hope they do not have any children.
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If in fact Tommy Shelton is living in Missisippi, he is breaking the law. My understanding is that he is not allowed to leave the state of Va. So, the answer to your question JW, would be absolutley ILLEGALLY!
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Please don't tell me that he agreed to a plea that included no prison time, only to do something that gauarantees more in addtition to that of his original crimes.........Come on now!! They just can't be that stupid!! I am sure he is there with the courts knowledge....has to be! If he was going to run, he would have had to run a lot further than that!
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Tommy-boy should get used to wearing a jumpsuit...
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Tommy's sentencing, due to occur this Friday, is likely to be continued (postponed) due to a court-related delay not caused by Tommy, the victims, or the prosecutor.
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Why? What is happening?
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Someone was ill and/or wasn't able to get something completed on time. Something like that.
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Someone was ill and/or wasn't able to get something completed on time. Something like that.
Is TS not able to get back from Mississippi in time?
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Someone was ill and/or wasn't able to get something completed on time. Something like that.
Is TS not able to get back from Mississippi in time?
It was someone other than Tommy, his attorneys, the victims, their attorneys, the prosecutor, and the judge. That's my understanding.
The thing is that there are a number of aspects that go into sentencing. Remember the reference to a pre-sentencing report somewhere, something like that? If the person preparing that got ill or had some delays, things could be delayed.
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My understanding is that the new sentencing date is October 22. Sentencing apparently happens once a month, so Tommy has to sweat it out for another month, wondering what is going to happen.
And so do we.
Interesting date, don't you think? October 22, the date for Yom Kippur, the cleansing of the sanctuary, in 1844. And the date for the commencement of the investigative judgment.
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For crying out loud, they had 2 months to get things in order, what more do they what???? If I had done my job like that, when I worked, I would have been fired. I should have been a lawyer and yet they get the BIG BUCKS???? I was in the wrong Profession :ROFL:
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Imagine Tommy's first day in prison. We'll call Tommy's cell mate 'Bubba'.
to be continued...
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Quite honestly, and speaking as a victim, I really don't enjoy that kind of talk at all. Yes, Tommy has to pay for what he has done, but it's nothing to celebrate.
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Quite honestly, and speaking as a victim, I really don't enjoy that kind of talk at all. Yes, Tommy has to pay for what he has done, but it's nothing to celebrate.
:goodpost:
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I agree with you completely.
It's nothing to celebrate.
Quite honestly, and speaking as a victim, I really don't enjoy that kind of talk at all. Yes, Tommy has to pay for what he has done, but it's nothing to celebrate.
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Someone was ill and/or wasn't able to get something completed on time. Something like that.
Is TS not able to get back from Mississippi in time?
It was someone other than Tommy, his attorneys, the victims, their attorneys, the prosecutor, and the judge. That's my understanding.
The thing is that there are a number of aspects that go into sentencing. Remember the reference to a pre-sentencing report somewhere, something like that? If the person preparing that got ill or had some delays, things could be delayed.
Well, it is obvious that it is not due to the prosecuter, Katherine Stott. Based on the daily docket for the Circuit Court, she has a full schedule for Friday morning.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/ (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/circuitcourtdocket/)
Stott, Katherine FE-2006-0000665 5G 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Stott, Katherine FE-2006-0000666 5G 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Stott, Katherine FE-2006-0000667 5G 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Status Hearing (Criminal)
Stott, Katherine FE-2007-0001972 4F 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Revocation - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2008-0000928 5E 9/24/2010 9:00:00 AM Revocation - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2008-0002033 4G 9/24/2010 9:00:00 AM Revocation - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2010-0000395 4F 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Report and Sentencing - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2010-0000532 4G 9/24/2010 9:00:00 AM Report and Sentencing - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2010-0000536 4G 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Report and Sentencing - Morning
Stott, Katherine FE-2010-0000943 5F 9/24/2010 10:00:00 AM Report and Sentencing - Morning
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So can this go on for years and years and years?
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There's a minister whom I know who is not SDA, but in my community. He got arrested for lewd and lascivious acts upon 2 of his own granddaughters at his home and at his church, which was just a rented office space. He got arrested in Dec. '09. Pled guilty, then got sentenced this month for 10 years in the state prison. I always thought he was weird. I had SDA friends that would go to his groups and confess all their sins and would cry and fuss about then pledge to be better people, and to be there for each other and all that kind of garbage. They tried to get me to go but I told them to get a life. Turns out this 'minister' had no formal training and was just a big pervert looking to use his religious 'groups' to get a tax break and get some sex out of it.
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See! Keep on listening to that stillamall voice, Horsethief!
There's a minister whom I know who is not SDA, but in my community. He got arrested for lewd and lascivious acts upon 2 of his own granddaughters at his home and at his church, which was just a rented office space. He got arrested in Dec. '09. Pled guilty, then got sentenced this month for 10 years in the state prison. I always thought he was weird. I had SDA friends that would go to his groups and confess all their sins and would cry and fuss about then pledge to be better people, and to be there for each other and all that kind of garbage. They tried to get me to go but I told them to get a life. Turns out this 'minister' had no formal training and was just a big pervert looking to use his religious 'groups' to get a tax break and get some sex out of it.
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Well thank you Princess Di. But here is the strange thing about this which has got me totally puzzled... This predator who called himself a minister pleads guilty. So I called my friend who was going to these 'groups' and I told him if he heard anything. Well he starts expressing doubt if it ever happened. I said to him, "It was you that distanced yourself from that pervert and his wife before any of this ever happened." He still says, "Well, I just don't know enough about this. I feel real sorry for him."
That got me furious.. I said, "Don't you feel sorry for the victims of this molestor? I don't feel any pity for him at all. He's got 10 years with the bad boys and that's the same as a death sentence." Then he suggests that I'm being too harsh.
He sounded alot like Tommy's apologists.
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Horsethief, that is a common reaction. Statistically murderers get much harsher sentences when the victims are adults, lesser when they are children. Why? And in the case of a revered leader in the spiritual world, they can do virtually anything and still have this odd contingent of followers who feel that the perpetrator is above recieving the consequences common to the crime.
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Horsethief, that is a common reaction. Statistically murderers get much harsher sentences when the victims are adults, lesser when they are children. Why? And in the case of a revered leader in the spiritual world, they can do virtually anything and still have this odd contingent of followers who feel that the perpetrator is above recieving the consequences common to the crime.
I'll never 'get it' either. The more I see it, the less I understand :dunno:
Just want them locked up with the 'bad guys'. They don't like rock spiders and will meter out their own form of justice!
I know. I know. I'm no good to work with perpetraters. I'll justs stick with the 'victims' (survivers) and leave the others to someone else, who is more inclined to 'cure' them than I. :o
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I guess that's the puzzler for me. This friend says "It's so sad. I feel so sorry for him."
That kind of reaction makes my blood boil with pure fury!
"WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN HE'S DAMAGED???"
I want to shout that to my friend.
I guess after I became a father this stuff gets to me more. But even before that I felt almost as strong about it.
What can these people not recognize?
Furthermore, is it wrong of me not to feel any pity for this 'minister' I am telling about? Or for Tommy Shelton?
I mean, we all know that there is no warm welcome in any US prison for anyone who is convicted for crimes against children. We all know what awaits these predators. They know it too. But I want to say to those people who say they "feel sorry" for these sickos... "They deserve what's coming to them! They took that chance!"
Call me harsh. Call me judgemental. But it's not as if they didn't know that this could be the outcome of their crimes.
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I guess that's the puzzler for me. This friend says "It's so sad. I feel so sorry for him."
That kind of reaction makes my blood boil with pure fury!
"WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN HE'S DAMAGED???"
I want to shout that to my friend.
I guess after I became a father this stuff gets to me more. But even before that I felt almost as strong about it.
What can these people not recognize?
Furthermore, is it wrong of me not to feel any pity for this 'minister' I am telling about? Or for Tommy Shelton?
I mean, we all know that there is no warm welcome in any US prison for anyone who is convicted for crimes against children. We all know what awaits these predators. They know it too. But I want to say to those people who say they "feel sorry" for these sickos... "They deserve what's coming to them! They took that chance!"
Call me harsh. Call me judgemental. But it's not as if they didn't know that this could be the outcome of their crimes.
I HEAR you. I understand where you're coming from.
Until these predators admit their wrongs, do their time and are never left unsupervised with young people again, nothing will ever change.
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and...I have no sympathy for it either and same thoughts as you all may already have read. They had no right to take a childs innocence into their dark evils of self sick possessed develish acts of distruction. Some victims if their hands and minds are uplifted to Jesus can overcome but how many can? That is what makes one so angry. The devil actually tries to rob their soul as a child. I hope the victims can understand that and "overcome" that with that thought as they at least can grow and live away from the slaught of the devil with his instruments like TS, and all that has been used that he has owned. Actually, as you really think of it--what difference is DS just because he invaded young also and they were "girls".?? All from the same pod if you ask me!
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Once again, I guess I am going to take up the unpopular opinion here.
Our Pastor is doing a series on forgiveness at prayer meeting and it is very good, and not at all what some expect. He started by telling us what forgiveness "is not". One of the things it "is not" is diminishing or nopt rememberbing the offensive behavior. Another is that it does not save one from the consequences of their actions.
Now, apply those two items to this topic. It is possible to feel sorry and even forgive TS for the terrible things he has done. But that does not mean that they won't be remembered. Some people mistakenly believe that forgiveness means acting as if nothing happened, and placing one self in the offenders line of fire, so to speak.....Not so. it has to be acknowledged if the process healing and forgiveness are to begin. Neither does forgiveness mean that he should not pay the consequences for his actions. The acts of mercy and forgiveness says, " I know you have done this terrible thing, and I forgive you, but I will be going to the authorities. You will still pay the consequences. Why? Because sin carries it's own consequences from which we cannot be saved.
Case in point, Adam and Eve. Jesus still came to redeem even them from their sins. However, they were still evicted from the garden, till the ground for a living, Eve(and all women) endure child birth with great pain, etc. Even though they were forgiven, they still paid the consequences for the actions.
TS is no different. You can feel sorry, pity, and even his victims, in due process, can forgive him. That by no means excuses him from any punishment the law requires for his crimes. TS is still God's child. God's child with some serious issues, but God's child nonetheless, not personified sin. This by no means takes away the horror and compassion given to the victims of these horrific crimes, nor is it to be seen as being disloyal to them. ALL are victims of sin, offender and his victim.
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Hmm, will this also be Satan's cry for His sin too? if not, why not? We do not judge or determine when One has went over the point of no return but according to scripture and SP, there is that place of certain dead walking around dead meaning "live" but completely dead and passed over by Holy Spirit no more to return. So what shall we forgive? the devil? as they have been claimed if the Holy Spirit no more is to visit them. Do they cry and plead for their selves in lost condition? Did Judas do that? Will any more do that? Sure is a scarry thing to take liberities to destroy other lives. Does this forgiveness relate to the work of Satan or do we just realize we have been assailed by one of his instruments and without hate try to mend?? I think that is all it is. The "sorry point" only that I see is that they chose to fall into the desires that Satan without doubt took as he observed their own "vanities" or fantacies they prefered. Pretty scarry I would say. all because they do not think anyone or anything sees for records what their sickness is. In that case they never were a believer of God and His record keeping of the books of heaven. They were never what they claimed in the beginning(evangelists or similar) but just a servant of Satan. So where is this scenario wrong?? I am open for this one.
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Maybe we should remember the sin of David in murdering Uzziah in this context. His repentance, as in Ps 51,is entirely sincere and we know he was forgiven. He still suffered the fourfold punishment in the death of four of his sons.
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Exactly Emma! That was my first choice in examples, but the last time I brought up David, I nearly got killed myself! LOL!!!
You got the right idea! By doing any less, we are requiring of another even more than God requires, and that is just not right.
Maybe we should remember the sin of David in murdering Uzziah in this context. His repentance, as in Ps 51,is entirely sincere and we know he was forgiven. He still suffered the fourfold punishment in the death of four of his sons.
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Tinka, there is one other thing that forgiveness is not and that is it is not for the offender. It is for the offended/victim so that they can move on. It is not even necessary that the offender know that they are forgiven, as in some cases this is not always possible(such as cases where offender dies, etc.).
It is for the offended/victim because as long as them hold on that "thing" that person has power over them, their mind, their actions, their life. You are most often stuck in the "anger" mode of the process of healing and there are a host of emitional and physical complications from all that turmoil inside.
However, when you forgive them and release that "thing" you are free. Anger free, hurt free, emotionally and physically free from that bondage.
Once again, forgiveness is not releasing the offender from their responsibility neither taking away any consequences for their actions. You[general] don't have to return to any relationship with them. You don't even have to speak to them. In essence, depending the situation, you are not required to place yourself in their line of fire again. Especially if the person is especially violent or even emotionally and physically damamging to you. Plus, it is clear indication that they have not changed their ways. All of this notwithstanding, you can and must still forgive them. IOW, forgive TS but he still has to go to jail, and live with the consequences of the lives he has damaged.
BY FIRGUVENESS I DO NOT MEAN RELEASING THEM FROM THEIR RESPONSIBILITES OR CONSEQUENCES. This would be ultimately even more damaging and dysfunctional. IOW, Tommy should pay to the full extent of the law. forgive him while he sits in prison for his crimes.
Your scenario of satan doesn't really work in tihis instance, unless you are one who believes that he even has a chance to repent...................interesting concept, eh? Hehehe!!! Sorry, Tinks, you know me, I just could nto resist muddying a water a bit. ;D
It is well worth it to study and get a good understanding of the word "forgiveness". We have gotten away from the true meaning.
Hmm, will this also be Satan's cry for His sin too? if not, why not? We do not judge or determine when One has went over the point of no return but according to scripture and SP, there is that place of certain dead walking around dead meaning "live" but completely dead and passed over by Holy Spirit no more to return. So what shall we forgive? the devil? as they have been claimed if the Holy Spirit no more is to visit them. Do they cry and plead for their selves in lost condition? Did Judas do that? Will any more do that? Sure is a scarry thing to take liberities to destroy other lives. Does this forgiveness relate to the work of Satan or do we just realize we have been assailed by one of his instruments and without hate try to mend?? I think that is all it is. The "sorry point" only that I see is that they chose to fall into the desires that Satan without doubt took as he observed their own "vanities" or fantacies they prefered. Pretty scarry I would say. all because they do not think anyone or anything sees for records what their sickness is. In that case they never were a believer of God and His record keeping of the books of heaven. They were never what they claimed in the beginning(evangelists or similar) but just a servant of Satan. So where is this scenario wrong?? I am open for this one.
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PrincessDi: you are on target with both of your posts.
Forgiveness does not require forgetting.
Forgiveness does not remove the consequences. A person may forgive and still want the offender to recieve the consequences.
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No, I am not a believer of Satan having another chance. But I think he thinks thats must be the case if he can take all.
I think I understand about the "forgiveness" in order to heal of which much has come our way also. I also consider the murder type of "forgiveness" that you give in examples in which is an ultimate thing. But somehow and some way and not sure but I also think there is different levels of sin. but all have to be answered to without repentance. Then there is a type of sin that I feel is way out and beyond in the dark side that is just sickening horrifying. Then the unforgivable sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit. and somehow that is what is so sickening is when an individual might already have done that long before he dies and claims others to take with him. (as Satan does) I know we cannot judge but these I think sometimes might be worse then death.
I know on the internet it shows different places of molested children I looked at one of these links that a poster on here put on. It stays with you and you want to do something about it and it just does not go away knowing the agony of these children. Guess I am too much of a mother protector of God's little gifts. Just can't hardly cope with their hurt and did not know those sites were there and will not look at it again. Just know that this happens and very sick within a church that had been blessed with truth. One example is the derelict that buried the little girl alive in Florida. It seems the works of Satan is the hardest to do but know it will come with Judgement.
Then I realize that these perverts were once babies too. What in the world happened to take them to distruction in this horrible dark way? I guess it remains one word... choice and that is an ultimate thing. yes it is very sad.
I think "forgiveness" has a lot of different avenues as we hate the acts of intentional inflicted selfish distruction of humans... then there is war and Jesus knows all about that and for what reasons. Sins of the people..... Before Iraq I saw the pictures of human distruction in the worst ways from Hussein. I wanted him dead. So now I am guilty. I could'nt stand him cutting tongues out and limbs off and throwing people off roofs to their death.
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Forgiveness is most often easier said than done. Theoretical discussion on matters intellectually understood are vastly different than the place where the rubber hits the road. On an intellectual level most people will agree with Di. On a practical level it is not always feasible to effect the lofty principles one embraces.
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Once again, I guess I am going to take up the unpopular opinion here.
Our Pastor is doing a series on forgiveness at prayer meeting and it is very good, and not at all what some expect. He started by telling us what forgiveness "is not". One of the things it "is not" is diminishing or nopt rememberbing the offensive behavior. Another is that it does not save one from the consequences of their actions.
Now, apply those two items to this topic. It is possible to feel sorry and even forgive TS for the terrible things he has done. But that does not mean that they won't be remembered. Some people mistakenly believe that forgiveness means acting as if nothing happened, and placing one self in the offenders line of fire, so to speak.....Not so. it has to be acknowledged if the process healing and forgiveness are to begin. Neither does forgiveness mean that he should not pay the consequences for his actions. The acts of mercy and forgiveness says, " I know you have done this terrible thing, and I forgive you, but I will be going to the authorities. You will still pay the consequences. Why? Because sin carries it's own consequences from which we cannot be saved.
Case in point, Adam and Eve. Jesus still came to redeem even them from their sins. However, they were still evicted from the garden, till the ground for a living, Eve(and all women) endure child birth with great pain, etc. Even though they were forgiven, they still paid the consequences for the actions.
TS is no different. You can feel sorry, pity, and even his victims, in due process, can forgive him. That by no means excuses him from any punishment the law requires for his crimes. TS is still God's child. God's child with some serious issues, but God's child nonetheless, not personified sin. This by no means takes away the horror and compassion given to the victims of these horrific crimes, nor is it to be seen as being disloyal to them. ALL are victims of sin, offender and his victim.
Spot on Di. You put it it in words I couldn't find to express what I was thinking.
The one thing I'll never 'get' though is when people feel 'so sorry' for the perpetrator that they want to hide it all and pretend it didn't happen; all the while allowing that person to go on doing more of the same, coz we all know that until their wings are well and truly clipped, pedaphiles will go on with more of the same. If only those people had the same amount lof sympathy for the DAMAGED victims/survivers. To me, those people are no bettter than the perpetrator themselves. :hot:
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Is it possible that the love of humans without hate is automatic "No forgiveness necessary". It's just the act you have to "overcome" or heal from"?? and it comes from faith in Jesus and His Healing? Does it make a difference in length of time it takes to heal because of less faith? Does one realize that we all sin and do not place our selves in superior over others that forgiveness is required and just have to focus in society to "overcome" the inflictions of others or do we stand against an inflicter of others. It always seems that "forgiveness" is automatic with your children. The love is still there. I do not forgive the Devil. The hate word for me means this focus on sin. I do have that in my emotions. I do realize that some people do hate people then "forgiveness" is not automatic unless asked from God and the person you hate. Can a perpetrator ask forgiveness and do it again and again after -to make way for his added "devilish priority" of his horrific desires? His love is only for his self or he could not do it. To me Love and forgiveness is one thing in hand that goes together automatically. So we are either a child of God or child of (symbolic CAIN) ???
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Truth be told here. Tommy & Danny have used Christianity as a disguise for the three things that they desire the most: money, power and sex. They don't care who they trample upon in order to get it either.
More victims might be coming forward as these legal and civil cases unfold.
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My father tried to kill me when I was 19. He was under the influence of alcohal, but also, I believe Devil possesed. He had decided that since I was getting married and he could have me, no one could. He even told the judge that. The next morning he didn't remember what he had done. It took me a long time to forgive him, even as a Christian and an even longer time to forget. Now I barely remember, unless someone brings it up. but the forgiveness and forgetfullness can come. I hate the alcohal because it ruined his life, my Mom's marriage and the time my son's could have had with him. I guess this is an example of hating the sin, not the sinner.
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Truth be told here. Tommy & Danny have used Christianity as a disguise for the three things that they desire the most: money, power and sex. They don't care who they trample upon in order to get it either.
More victims might be coming forward as these legal and civil cases unfold.
and that is not really a child of God but a way of a child of (Cain) that is from God's creation to milk the promises, use presumption that there is always forgiveness after the sin, I don't believe they can get a way with that presumption of not paying liability somewhere down the line. and some of this presumption will cost loss of eternity. Now that is where the dark they like to be in knowing whatever they do will be forgiven. That is presumption and on a dead end street of no return. Now wasn't that the exact pattern that Lucifer did on the mountain top with Jesus?? Yes it was. Did it change Lucifer, no it did not. Lucifer presumed Jesus would save himself. You do not need presumption of "forgiveness" if love is there for mankind. No love, no forgiveness. I sort of look at it that way. OH, and yes, one would ask for "forgiveness to protect his own self" sort of thing and that is where they begin to "fear the retribution" of their folly. That is also the case with the Justifyers of all wrong deeds, wrong words against scripture, words against the prophets, false prophets, and the worst place to be in is the church knowing and doing this using God's house. Whoa, that is bad :help: Better to be a sinner outside of His house then in.! The fire might just be a little hotter and a lot more suffering before the stubble comes.
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Understood, Tinka, and I can see why you fee that way. people who victimized children are the lowest form of life as far as I am concerned.
That being said, "levels" of sin is not biblical. The Bible speaks of sins that God hates, but to my knowledge, we(SDAs) don't believe that people will burn any longer the lying than spwomg odscprd amopngst the bretheren, or more to the point molesting children. ALL sinners will suffer the same fate, therefore all sin is equal in God's eyes.
The belief that there are levels of sin mostly come from Dante's Divine Comedy. Check out the wikipedia link. It's a accurate enough for you to get the message. [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy][/url]
No, I am not a believer of Satan having another chance. But I think he thinks thats must be the case if he can take all.
I think I understand about the "forgiveness" in order to heal of which much has come our way also. I also consider the murder type of "forgiveness" that you give in examples in which is an ultimate thing. But somehow and some way and not sure but I also think there is different levels of sin. but all have to be answered to without repentance. Then there is a type of sin that I feel is way out and beyond in the dark side that is just sickening horrifying. Then the unforgivable sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit. and somehow that is what is so sickening is when an individual might already have done that long before he dies and claims others to take with him. (as Satan does) I know we cannot judge but these I think sometimes might be worse then death.
I know on the internet it shows different places of molested children I looked at one of these links that a poster on here put on. It stays with you and you want to do something about it and it just does not go away knowing the agony of these children. Guess I am too much of a mother protector of God's little gifts. Just can't hardly cope with their hurt and did not know those sites were there and will not look at it again. Just know that this happens and very sick within a church that had been blessed with truth. One example is the derelict that buried the little girl alive in Florida. It seems the works of Satan is the hardest to do but know it will come with Judgement.
Then I realize that these perverts were once babies too. What in the world happened to take them to distruction in this horrible dark way? I guess it remains one word... choice and that is an ultimate thing. yes it is very sad.
I think "forgiveness" has a lot of different avenues as we hate the acts of intentional inflicted selfish distruction of humans... then there is war and Jesus knows all about that and for what reasons. Sins of the people..... Before Iraq I saw the pictures of human distruction in the worst ways from Hussein. I wanted him dead. So now I am guilty. I could'nt stand him cutting tongues out and limbs off and throwing people off roofs to their death.
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princessdi, I can usually decipher what you write with add letters or mixed up ones but what is spwomg odscprd , I get the amongst? :oops:
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Di,
According to SP some will not suffer but be as they never were. and some will have more stones in their crowns for rewards. That gave me the idea of different levels of sin and according to the same info of Lucifer will be the longest suffering. again, that is sort of a common sense understanding with those statements. Then there is also the division of sinners in vol.5. The just, the Holy, the unjust, the wicked that never came close or could not convert.
Now that took quite a bit of outling all the references that White stated in length .
Every time she quoted that someone would be raised with the just is all that were not under the time of 3angels message like she states about Miller and others before that revelation of truth, I was picking up on that. Next she quotes that the Unjust are in the worst situation of horror because those were the ones that went church all their lives and Jesus says, I never knew you. The Holy are those that followed the lamb without turning to left or right and stayed the path and Blessed are those who brought in the redeemed. and the wicked are those who some will be as they never were with no hope of eternity. read the whole volume. I have read every volume, every page, and outlined it all. and she does not change one iota of who and when she refers to those who will be raised and in what era. I found it quite interesting evertime she made a difference in the ones she spoke of. It takes all that reading to find it.
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Di,
Just reread my post and discovered I could have made more clear but was so tired and the point where there will be more jewels in some crowns had nothing to do with levels of sin. I just mentioned that so we could see that everyone will have different amount of jewels according to the amount of redeemed they brought in or etc.
Also another point to make clear is that many will be resurrected from the era's where they did not know the last message of our era that is now brought forth in the 3 angels message of rev.
In fact there will be a special Resurrection first of those that gave the last message of truth brought forth just prior to the actual opening raising of the just and righteous. It is a promise given that those plus the ones that crucified Jesus will be raised in this special Resurrection to see all. So therefore those (Holy Ones) raised at that time will be in a "living state" that followed the lamb and brought in the last redeemed of our era along with our now "honest messengers" of which maybe many will not see "death" but changed in a twinkling of an eye.
So now we can understand why EGW said it was not important to know who those (numbers are) were as we should soon know. When the special Resurrection occurs they will be walking among the "living". That also is why she came right out and mentioned some names of who would be with the 144,000. She mentions several and Mrs. Hastings would be one with them (raised) as others she states the same. Make note that EGW does not say the word OF but with the 144,000. That is a sign of adding to or multiplication of the number meaning included. Of would be subtracting from the number and therefore could possibly conclude the number as literal and then a bumper situation begins of which I do not believe. I do believe the number was literal in the beginning of God's chosen number of sending 12,000 to each tribe or nation --to send messengers to all the (tribes or nations in His last effort) but that number would bring in the Redeemed of last era to multiply as the sand of the seas. and that is His Holy ONES. The ones that carried the whole weight on their shoulders for our era in this whole world. Then in PP book it states that all the redeemed with the 144,000 and called the 144,000 (now symbolic)would be the only ones that could sing the "song" of the redeemed all standing on the sea of glass with Jesus in the Middle with the Martye rs standing closest to Him then giving the info of positions of different people and different era's were they stand. I love the finer details that our last day "messenger" we were so fortunate to get expands on . I personally believe EGW will be in that special ressurection also.
Actually you are right in one thing Di, all level of sins will face the same thing in the end but the degree of punishment will be different according to the "Unforgiven" sins.
some churches members will be lost on not what they did --but what they did not do. and some have put their own salvation their first priority into fanaticism or vanity instead of giving of their self in unclaimed benevolence for the Love of God and His will.
corrected and added thought.
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You are right Mrst! However, let me relieve you. You don't HAVE to forget. In fact, remembering in some cases keeps us from again placing ourselves in the line of fire. I always believe that we eventually get to the place where there is no or very minimal pain associated with the memory.
My father tried to kill me when I was 19. He was under the influence of alcohal, but also, I believe Devil possesed. He had decided that since I was getting married and he could have me, no one could. He even told the judge that. The next morning he didn't remember what he had done. It took me a long time to forgive him, even as a Christian and an even longer time to forget. Now I barely remember, unless someone brings it up. but the forgiveness and forgetfullness can come. I hate the alcohal because it ruined his life, my Mom's marriage and the time my son's could have had with him. I guess this is an example of hating the sin, not the sinner.
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I wonder how Jim Gilley, Molly Steenson and John Lomacang are feeling now? I wonder if they ever took into consideration that their blind devotion to this cult leader would lead them into having to attempt to justify the actions of a sexual predator? They certainly knew before these already proven allegations were made that Tommy Shelton has an appetite for teenage boys. Like before Tommy became production manager. But following that, Tommy was featured on 'KID'S TIME.'
It's just amazing how the ambition to please a leader of a cult will take some people... To the point of allowing young children to be put at risk for sexual assault.
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On Sept. 1, 2006, John Lomacang led me to believe more than once that he did not know about the allegations against Tommy. Thus far I have not found any reason why not to believe him.
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Was Pastor Lomacang there when TS was there the first time, or just when he replaced Linda?
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Lomacang knows Tommy is a sexual predator. Lomacang knows that Danny tried to intimidate those victims into dropping their charges. Lomacang knew that letting Tommy on to 'KID's TIME' was a grave mistake. He has obviously not protested that to the cult leader because he is still there.
This makes Lomacang a spineless coward.
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Even if Tommy never made contact with children on the set - allowing him to be displayed publicly as being a "good person" as was done would naturally lead parents who saw him (on the air and during public appearances at churches; featured or pictured on literature etc.) to think he was a safe person to privately be around their children unsupervised.
Tommy is a celebrity and public figure at 3ABN. Although he was known within the Church of God, his national and international public image was created at 3ABN. This didn't happen passively and couldn't have been done without the co-operation of the power brokers at 3ABN (many of them celebrities and public figures themselves), Lomacang being only one of them.
Edited to clarify my thoughts
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:goodpost: :amen: :amen: :amen:
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I just spoke with someone who knew Tommy personally and attended the Church of God in Dunn Loring when he was pastor there. She said that he was never friendly with the adults, but the children and teens flocked around him.....
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Lomacang knows Tommy is a sexual predator. Lomacang knows that Danny tried to intimidate those victims into dropping their charges. Lomacang knew that letting Tommy on to 'KID's TIME' was a grave mistake. He has obviously not protested that to the cult leader because he is still there.
This makes Lomacang a spineless coward.
Here, Here!!!
How do we impeach the wimp??? Then, maybe he impeached himself.
In any event he should be defrocked.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I know you all aren't talking about my friend JL!!! LOL!!!!
Seriously, though, how long do they keep the pastors at that church there? I know here in California we tend to keep them longer than most areas. At my church we have had 4 pastors to take up 40+ years of our 50+ year history. Is it the same there? JL has been there quite a while.
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I know you all aren't talking about my friend JL!!! LOL!!!!
Seriously, though, how long do they keep the pastors at that church there? I know here in California we tend to keep them longer than most areas. At my church we have had 4 pastors to take up 40+ years of our 50+ year history. Is it the same there? JL has been there quite a while.
There is a formula called the wimp formula...stay a wimp and stay...get a backbone and leave...you will no longer be in someone's good graces and will have worn out your welcome...
Joe Cruz called it "Creeping Compromise"..."wimp" is simple enough!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Being that Pastor Lomacang knew that there were donor's funds being spent in an attempt to intimidate victims to not testify and tell the truth about Tommy Shelton, and being that he went along with these attempts, one could apply the label of 'CRIMINAL' to Pastor Lomacang.
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Being that Pastor Lomacang knew that there were donor's funds being spent in an attempt to intimidate victims to not testify and tell the truth about Tommy Shelton, and being that he went along with these attempts, one could apply the label of 'CRIMINAL' to Pastor Lomacang.
Hmmm, would you say funds spent would be cash or gifts???
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I wonder if Danny deducted the cost of his tanning bed and his hair implants for his taxes?
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Being that Pastor Lomacang knew that there were donor's funds being spent in an attempt to intimidate victims to not testify and tell the truth about Tommy Shelton, and being that he went along with these attempts, one could apply the label of 'CRIMINAL' to Pastor Lomacang.
:amen: :goodpost:
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Sexual predators reside and work in places where they feel comfortable and free to act on their fantasies. Consider Michael Jackson and his 'NEVERLAND' getaway. Tommy Shelton always had a school built wherever he was ministering. He spent plenty of time living and working at 3ABN.
It makes me wonder if some of his sexual assaults also took place there? He knew his brother would have protected his actions.
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Sexual predators reside and work in places where they feel comfortable and free to act on their fantasies. Consider Michael Jackson and his 'NEVERLAND' getaway. Tommy Shelton always had a school built wherever he was ministering. He spent plenty of time living and working at 3ABN.
It makes me wonder if some of his sexual assaults also took place there? He knew his brother would have protected his actions.
Yes, they did.
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I do hope that no one holds back in making the truth about 3ABN public. To let Danny get away with attempting to hide these crimes means allowing more predatory behavior to continue and more lives damaged.
Sexual predators such as Tommy and Danny will not quit unless they are taken away from their supply...
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Sexual predators reside and work in places where they feel comfortable and free to act on their fantasies. Consider Michael Jackson and his 'NEVERLAND' getaway. Tommy Shelton always had a school built wherever he was ministering. He spent plenty of time living and working at 3ABN.
It makes me wonder if some of his sexual assaults also took place there? He knew his brother would have protected his actions.
Yes, they did.
Ex3abn: Does the state of Illinois know about this? Does John Manley know about it?
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Sexual predators reside and work in places where they feel comfortable and free to act on their fantasies. Consider Michael Jackson and his 'NEVERLAND' getaway. Tommy Shelton always had a school built wherever he was ministering. He spent plenty of time living and working at 3ABN.
It makes me wonder if some of his sexual assaults also took place there? He knew his brother would have protected his actions.
Yes, they did.
Ex3abn: Does the state of Illinois know about this? Does John Manley know about it?
I know Manly does. Not sure about the state.
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FANTASTIC! John Manley is a good man... Danny and his co-conspirators will have to either pay up or go to trial. The only way for their insurance to cover costs for them is if they go to trial.
Danny Shelton is finished.
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Looks like Molly Steenson, John Lomacang, Jim Gilley and Danny Shelton don't see any crime in an adult sexually assaulting a child. I won't shed any tears if they have to declare bankruptcy or get evicted from there homes after they have to pay up for their parts in conspiring to threaten and intimidate the molestors victims...
Each one of them deserve jail time.
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Any conjectures as to what is happening with the civil suit?
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horsethief, it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual. Actually, this has happened before. When someone else besides me starts posting the truth about what goes on with the Shelton clan and at 3ABN, they assume that I am the only one who posts about the situation. If they would take their heads out of the sand, they would realize that a lot of what has gone on there is commonly known by the locals. T-ville and the surrounding area is a very small community and the name of Shelton is not known for honesty, clean dealing or purity. I have never tried to take down 3ABN, only those in administrative positions who abuse their power or provide predators sanctuary within their compound.
Sister (not horsethief)
horsethief, if we met at the restaurant in T-ville would we recognise each other? Just a random thought...
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I have also noticed the identification of horsethief with Sister on two separate occasions.
I think it stems from their belief that any new poster who appears must be an additional personality taken on by one of the established members...since that's what they do on their site.
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Correct conclusion, Artiste! Unlike all the incarnations of Cindy and Co.; I have only been Sister, both here and earlier on BSDA. At BSDA they thought I was Linda Shelton. They also thought I wrote the Televangelist. Haven't they figured out the reason we all know who they are is their style of writing? And their "observations" of posters true identities are only wishfull thinking. Cindy and Co. take your heads out of the sand, look around, then realize the dirty laundry at 3ABN is evident to more individuals than you can possibly imagine and they are no longer willing to remain silent. Tommy has finally been caught with his pants down and Danny can no longer hide his secrets.
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May not be just Tommy with his pants down.
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horsethief, it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual. Actually, this has happened before. When someone else besides me starts posting the truth about what goes on with the Shelton clan and at 3ABN, they assume that I am the only one who posts about the situation. If they would take their heads out of the sand, they would realize that a lot of what has gone on there is commonly known by the locals. T-ville and the surrounding area is a very small community and the name of Shelton is not known for honesty, clean dealing or purity. I have never tried to take down 3ABN, only those in administrative positions who abuse their power or provide predators sanctuary within their compound.
Sister (not horsethief)
horsethief, if we met at the restaurant in T-ville would we recognise each other? Just a random thought...
HA! That's magnificent! Those are some smart folks over there to have nailed down like that. We THOUGHT we had them fooled... Too bad our cover is up.
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Any conjectures as to what is happening with the civil suit?
I will conjecture there will not be a civil suit, but simply quiet negotiatons and a settlement that will reward the lawfirm for the limited effort they put in and the victims will get a "structured settlement". If they had the stomach for a civil suit against 3ABN it would have already have happened and the PR effort and news releases already distributed.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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A "structured settlement"? How will 3abn afford that?
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horsethief, it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual. Actually, this has happened before. When someone else besides me starts posting the truth about what goes on with the Shelton clan and at 3ABN, they assume that I am the only one who posts about the situation. If they would take their heads out of the sand, they would realize that a lot of what has gone on there is commonly known by the locals. T-ville and the surrounding area is a very small community and the name of Shelton is not known for honesty, clean dealing or purity. I have never tried to take down 3ABN, only those in administrative positions who abuse their power or provide predators sanctuary within their compound.
Sister (not horsethief)
horsethief, if we met at the restaurant in T-ville would we recognise each other? Just a random thought...
HA! That's magnificent! Those are some smart folks over there to have nailed down like that. We THOUGHT we had them fooled... Too bad our cover is up.
horsethief, you do realise that irony is completely lost on them... Their next headline will be "horsethief admits to being Sister"
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I thought I was...
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Gailon, if there is a "structured settlement" do you think there will be a gag order attached so that nothing will be allowed to be posted on the interenet, as to an outcome?
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horsethief, you do realise that irony is completely lost on them... Their next headline will be "horsethief admits to being Sister"
Wouldn't you rather have that than "Sister admits to being horsethief"? :ROFL:
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I hear Danny's knew interest has some deep pockets...
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it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual.
Sister (not horsethief)
Over the years, has Cindy ever told anyone why she has such an intense interest?
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I see that "Lilly" states that the new GC President, Elder Neil Wilson, supports 3ABN.
Is not "Lilly" off a couple of decades? I thought Ted Wilson was the new GC President.
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horsethief, it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual. Actually, this has happened before. When someone else besides me starts posting the truth about what goes on with the Shelton clan and at 3ABN, they assume that I am the only one who posts about the situation. If they would take their heads out of the sand, they would realize that a lot of what has gone on there is commonly known by the locals. T-ville and the surrounding area is a very small community and the name of Shelton is not known for honesty, clean dealing or purity. I have never tried to take down 3ABN, only those in administrative positions who abuse their power or provide predators sanctuary within their compound.
Sister (not horsethief)
horsethief, if we met at the restaurant in T-ville would we recognise each other? Just a random thought...
I once met another Shelton in West Frankfort. He made sure I realized he had nothing to do with the 3ABN.
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Any person who knowingly tries to protect someone from being prosecuted for crimes against children can in no way claim to be a follower of Christ.
Furthermore, the person doing the protecting is suspect themselves. They may have even taken part in the crimes. The people who support this attempt to protect from prosecution and subvert justice also are suspect.
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it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual.
Sister (not horsethief)
Over the years, has Cindy ever told anyone why she has such an intense interest?
That is one mystery I've always wondered about, but don't know the answer to. Wish I did.
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Gailon, I know the sentencing has been postponed to October again- but can the sentencing keep being postponed indefinitely for one reason or the other? Is there a time limit?
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it appears that at Cindy and Co. site they are identifying you and Sister as the same individual.
Sister (not horsethief)
Over the years, has Cindy ever told anyone why she has such an intense interest?
That is one mystery I've always wondered about, but don't know the answer to. Wish I did.
Maybe she's helped locate kids for Tommy?
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It was obvious the whole time she posted she had close ties, somewhere or somehow and for some reason but that seems to be maybe a far out reason although these days anything is possible. I tend to lean on a relationship in some sort of "Hootenanny" of the clan. Her posting got to personal when posting to Duane.
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I assure you there will not be any type of gag order. I know the victims are admittedly against that and will not accept.
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Did Cindy get banned from Advent Talk? She was fun to mess with...
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Cindy posted this today:
In fact after talking all big and bad for weeks they suddenly and curiously shut up and have said nothing else about it for weeks till now. Why is that? There is as of now no civil case filed that I could find... After all their boasting, why not? Is there a problem? Seems like it to me...
Wow, Cindy does really have mental issues! Cindy, You haven't posted since you was threatened with legal action, which is still a probability. As far as your other question all I have to say is None Of Your Business, you nosey witch.
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Now, Horsethief, I just can't leave you for a few days..............Bad, Horsethief, Bad!!!
I must admit that her intense interest in this situation has been a mystery to me over the years. Part of that being, I know she is s relative newcomer to the situation. Meaning she was not around 3ABN even for the ousting of Linda. So she definitely had nothing to do with scouting victims for Tommy, neither would she ever. I know she is only working within her own christian convictions.
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Is she married? If not maybe she wants to be the next victim.
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The only reason I posted that is because she clearly has no conviction concerning child molestation. If she truly believed that it is a crime, then she would stop her denials of Tommy being a molestor and Danny his enabler. She would stop defending their actions and would stop criticizing the victims. She is well aware that Tommy pled guilty. She is well aware that Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims.
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Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims? Really? Is that new information? I have not heard that before.
The only reason I posted that is because she clearly has no conviction concerning child molestation. If she truly believed that it is a crime, then she would stop her denials of Tommy being a molestor and Danny his enabler. She would stop defending their actions and would stop criticizing the victims. She is well aware that Tommy pled guilty. She is well aware that Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims.
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Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims? Really? Is that new information? I have not heard that before.
Oh, hi Cindy.
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Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims? Really? Is that new information? I have not heard that before.
Oh, hi Cindy.
Huh? I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I have a personal interest in the case and I did not know about Danny Shelton being ordered to pay resitution, as horsethief has stated. That is all. Sorry if I was misleading.
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None of this is a simple matter of black and white. It is all complex and a nebulous haze of shades of grey, at least on the surface. Fundamentally the principles of the matter are certainly black and white.
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Restitution has been demanded by the victims through their attorneys. A court hasn't ordered it yet.
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Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims? Really? Is that new information? I have not heard that before.
Oh, hi Cindy.
Thus far, Nancy's posts (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=473;sa=showPosts) don't sound like Cindy's.
Welcome, Nancy.
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Is she married? If not maybe she wants to be the next victim.
On a pm I recieved, states she is not married but living close to mom again and family.
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I know, Horsethief, that is a source of frustration to me also. However, you know, as an adult, and mostly likely a parent, that two wrongs never make a right.
The only reason I posted that is because she clearly has no conviction concerning child molestation. If she truly believed that it is a crime, then she would stop her denials of Tommy being a molestor and Danny his enabler. She would stop defending their actions and would stop criticizing the victims. She is well aware that Tommy pled guilty. She is well aware that Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims.
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Restitution has been demanded by the victims through their attorneys. A court hasn't ordered it yet.
Is that what you meant to say here? I submit to you that Danny being ordered to do something versus someone demanding that Danny be ordered to do something are two very different concepts.
The only reason I posted that is because she clearly has no conviction concerning child molestation. If she truly believed that it is a crime, then she would stop her denials of Tommy being a molestor and Danny his enabler. She would stop defending their actions and would stop criticizing the victims. She is well aware that Tommy pled guilty. She is well aware that Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims.
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Danny has been ordered to pay restitution for his role in intimidating victims? Really? Is that new information? I have not heard that before.
Oh, hi Cindy.
Thus far, Nancy's posts (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=473;sa=showPosts) don't sound like Cindy's.
Welcome, Nancy.
Thank you Bob.
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That's why the correction was made, thank you...
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:scratch:
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Gailon, if there is a "structured settlement" do you think there will be a gag order attached so that nothing will be allowed to be posted on the interenet, as to an outcome?
A "structured settlement" is a sum certain paid over a time certain and best be bonded or insured. It is possiblke some of the actions may have been insured. As to the "gag" stipulation, I would guess that if their is a negotiated settlement the terms will not be disclosed and 3ABN will not admit liability but simply settle to avoid protracted litigation.
I would hope that the board would now clearly see that DLS is an ONGOING LIABILITY and an albatros...perhaps get smart and work a deal to put Linda back on the porch with a good sheperd. Then merge!!!
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I see that "Lilly" states that the new GC President, Elder Neil Wilson, supports 3ABN.
Is not "Lilly" off a couple of decades? I thought Ted Wilson was the new GC President.
Elder Neil Wilson is the name of father and son, but son has used the acronym "Ted"
and has distinguished the two over the years. But, must we be concerned of the old
saged wisdom "like Father, like son?" If so we are in for significant turmoil!!!
If "Ted" has any interest in 3ABN it might be limited to the "merger" into an established
SDA entity and the liquidation of the adultery ridden administration.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Gailon, I know the sentencing has been postponed to October again- but can the sentencing keep being postponed indefinitely for one reason or the other? Is there a time limit?
Speedy trials are "constitutionally" required. Sentencing is a bit more complex but rarely gets extended unless illness or other events intervene...remember, it is customary for victims and perpetrators to get to face one another and each to make final presentencing statements...however, it is rare that this process really affects the judge's verdict. But, it can be cathartic for the victims and is an important part of what we now refer to as "closure" for the victims.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I could go back to my dad's farm and find those rubberband stretchers we used to use for castrating rams.
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I could go back to my dad's farm and find those rubberband stretchers we used to use for castrating rams.
You are assuming this is all about "sexual orientation" and castration would cure the perpetrator.
I saw a case that involved a "castrated" eunich that was able to arrange an implant to perpetuate his crime, that obviously had no real "pleasure" or fulfillment. The root issue in that case was sheer dominance and a host of other psychiatric issues that finally lead to serious physical damage to a victim, probably in an attempt to end the victims life, that fortunately failed.
When the perpetrator found out we had the young victim and that he might be able to testify, the perpetrator did us the favor of putting a pistol into his mouth and pulled the trigger...an ER had the pleasure of declaring him DOA!!!
Unfortunately, insufficient punishment for the crimes he perpetrated, but saved us all loads of time and money.
Point is, it is not just about "sexual orientation" but usually involves far more complex issues and can often lead to violence in one form or another. Whether violence is a result or not, the victims lives are even more disrupted, guilt ridden, severe loss of confidence in humanity, God and a host of other social issues that they cannot escape easily even with counseling.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Just my silly musings...
But I don't buy that any person is born with a natural sexual inclination toward children or for the same sex. I believe that environmental factors play the largest part on that. Call me old fashioned, closed-minded, homophobic, judgemental.. I've heard all of that. But here is one perspective on sexual orientation that no person has been able to dispute.
How many of you have donated blood?
I make sure I do that at work, every other month when it is offered. It saves lives.
Every time I donate, I fill out the questionaire asking me about my past medical/social events. Every time there is a question for males only that states, "Have you, even once, had sex with another male?
I notice every time I donate that the gay males I work with are never blood donors. The reason why, a 'YES' answer to that question immediatly disqualifies them from blood donation. If any person puts false info on that questionaire, then they can be prosecuted.
T
So don't ever be convinced that being gay is somehow a phenomena that is normal and natural, no matter what our politically correct society demands. It's not natural, it's learned, sick, perverted behavior , period.
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I believe that environmental factors play the largest part on that.
Another possibility:
"Do not for a moment acknowledge Satan's temptations as being in harmony with your own mind." (1MCP 32)
A person might have thought that the whisperings of Satan in his ear were really his own thoughts when they were nothing of the sort. Acknowledging the whisperings of that masterful hypnotist as being one's own thoughts leads to one's thoughts echoing those whisperings.
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I see that "Lilly" states that the new GC President, Elder Neil Wilson, supports 3ABN.
Is not "Lilly" off a couple of decades? I thought Ted Wilson was the new GC President.
Elder Neil Wilson is the name of father and son, but son has used the acronym "Ted"
and has distinguished the two over the years. But, must we be concerned of the old
saged wisdom "like Father, like son?" If so we are in for significant turmoil!!!
If "Ted" has any interest in 3ABN it might be limited to the "merger" into an established
SDA entity and the liquidation of the adultery ridden administration.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
What kind of significant turmoil are you talking about? I don't remember anything about the elder Wilson.
Thanks!
Daylily
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Just my silly musings...
But I don't buy that any person is born with a natural sexual inclination toward children or for the same sex. I believe that environmental factors play the largest part on that. Call me old fashioned, closed-minded, homophobic, judgemental.. I've heard all of that. But here is one perspective on sexual orientation that no person has been able to dispute.
Do not underestimate what the use of scientifically engineered soy that is used in almost all foods and baby formula, then take the fanaticism of taking away all dairy, eggs, butter. Give all soy and you will have great change in human identity. We were warned in Lev not to mess with God's creation of seed. They did and then there was Sodom and Gomorrah. What a diversion to human creation going against the commands of God. You can now see it in the animals when they have both male and female organs too. Check it out next time you go to a fair. Look at the big picture of cause and effect. Years ago, Loma Linda had a study on giving soy to I think Haiti and other poor countries for infants. Anyone remember that? That is why I will not cook with much soy. Also the Jewish nation on tv have a saying that I am not the only one figuring this out. They claim that "soy" makes little girls out of your little boys. I personally have seen it done to a baby that never tasted dairy, sugar, meat, or anything hardly edible. I remember him as a beautiful baby boy. Very sad, sad outcome.
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Tinka... Are you feeling OK?
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(smile), it is not surprising that many people do not care or realize to look into what they put in their stomach. or whats in a flu shot and why they believe all because it comes from the gov. Check back with Loma Linda and their soy studies of years ago as very young children reached puberty by 3-4 years old in the poor countries they sent soy milk when other was not available. Little girls with breasts in the cribs yet. and boys able to reproduce very young. Watch the Jewish scientists on their TV station and their medical advice. It is plain as day what they say and keep up with food that is right to eat. Then go read Lev and see where they messed with the seed, animals and humans. Why did God tell them to not do it. Because (smile) horsethief, they did to the distortion or amalgamation of man and beast. Then Horsethief, they found results is such things as strangeness of humans and dinosaurs that they can arrive with the use of a word to attain the belief of evolution. Satan tried to destroy all God's creations into disaster. Then read again why the flood. Read very close and the Jewish people are correct. What is wrong with us?? Let's see, soy with Adventists is big business!! It has it's goodness in the right places....Old ladies. :ROFL: But to your question (laugh) I'm feeling fine. Sorry but I can tell you a lot that goes on in gov that is put on the people and they never know the difference. I think the latest thing out there now is now in the workings. Scientifically engineered Salmon fish. Already seen it in the making. There huge and a lot bigger.
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I could go back to my dad's farm and find those rubberband stretchers we used to use for castrating rams.
When the perpetrator found out we had the young victim and that he might be able to testify, the perpetrator did us the favor of putting a pistol into his mouth and pulled the trigger...an ER had the pleasure of declaring him DOA!!!
Unfortunately, insufficient punishment for the crimes he perpetrated, but saved us all loads of time and money.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Isn't this rather strong language coming from a professed Christian? :dunno:
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I could go back to my dad's farm and find those rubberband stretchers we used to use for castrating rams.
When the perpetrator found out we had the young victim and that he might be able to testify, the perpetrator did us the favor of putting a pistol into his mouth and pulled the trigger...an ER had the pleasure of declaring him DOA!!!
Unfortunately, insufficient punishment for the crimes he perpetrated, but saved us all loads of time and money.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Isn't this rather strong language coming from a professed Christian? :dunno:
Mr Fawcett--Why do you perceive this to be possibly unchristian? Coming from a friend of a victim I share the sentiment of GAJ. The Bible even shares the same feeling if you read it carefully! It is time that people wake up and quit sugar coating and putting a pretty face on a sexual molestor and mentally sick so-called man of God! Maybe Horsethief was correct when he stated that TS needs to be faced with "Bubba". Possibly it would be some closure if TS had the same acts exposed upon him that he didn't think twice exposing on young boys!!!
So I ask you, again, why do you find that to be unchristian? Do you also find my statement to be unchristian as well? If so, that's fine. It's time to call it as you see it. The way I see it, TS needs to be exposed for what he is and for what he's done!!!
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What kind of significant turmoil are you talking about? I don't remember anything about the elder Wilson.
Thanks!
Daylily
The Wilson years were marked by a number of scandals and significant losses, largely unpunished and swept under the rug of corporate "christianity"...these are documented in "Who Watches? Who Cares?" by Doug Hackleman and since I had the unfortunate privilege of investigating many of these issues or worked with those who did, I can say that he has dochumented the issues very well.
We lost Harris Pine Mills and saw the deterioration of educational systems, the failure of our North American LE Programs, the utilization of non-SDA lawfirms to pursue litigation against the brethren for various issues, the emrgence of a number of powerful independent ministries (largely an outgrowth of protest and building of churches within a church), including 3ABN, despite the counsel of many.
Our Medical ministries restructured into several Adventis Health Systems and were heavily leveraged in direct contradiction of counsel at the turn of the 20th century.
And probably most significantly we moved toward the premise that we must become a mainstream religion instead of a distinct people, all in the quest to avoid being called a "CULT".
This lead to a coup where the chairman of the GC Nominating committee and a conference president being elected President and then was charged with serious violations of ethics by the current president and set aside mid-term by resigning to avoid being thrown out for having a business relationship with the Vatican Bank and a Vatican Subsidiary.
Beleive me, the history is not one we wish to repeat, not that I expect any man will bring about the reformation we need as the Lord makes it clear that He must manifest exhibit His Spirit within the church at the correct moment.
That moment will arrive regardless of whom is the President.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Imagine Tommy's first day on the block and meets his cell mate, Bubba, about 6'5" and all of 320 pounds...
;Dhehehehehe!
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Imagine Tommy's first day on the block and meets his cell mate, Bubba, about 6'5" and all of 320 pounds...
;Dhehehehehe!
:o :o :o :o
Then will the sympathizers still feel sorry for poor Pastor Tommy R. Shelton? TS is not only going to get "nailed" in court, but he's going to get "nailed" in prision....if you catch my drift. ;)
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Again I say, this kind of talk is not enjoyable at all. Do you think I, as a victim, would take any enjoyment from Tommy experiencing some of the very things that happened to me?
I can tell you assuredly, I would not.
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Maybe not Duane, but that does not mean he don't deserve it!
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Isn't this rather strong language coming from a professed Christian? :dunno:
What an opportunity to address a long festering boil that pervades Adventism!!!
The premise that we never speak untoward of our fellow man lest we breach the softer temperment of “Christianity” would virtually paralyse our church into an era of “let the Lord deal with the issue”… Oh, yes you are correct, we have been there!!! It didn’t work!!! Apostacy now reigns as a prevalent problem within a Faith that is suppose to be a “peculiar people” not full of scientific and societal conformists. And we are to be giving a serious warning defining sin by its name to a carnate world heading head-long into oblivion!!!!
Instead, we have adopted a new theology that if we simply live to be 101 because of lifestyle that our neighbors will flock into the pews!!! And it does not work!!!!
The concept that we cannot deal with serious issues and express our disdain for the “sin” has far too long left us in a paralysis of never holding those accountable who have wronged our church or Society. Never calling “sin” by its right name!!!
This new theology goes even further to declare one “undermines leadership” to give open criticism of the wrongs by those in any leadership role, those sitting in the pews or are otherwise “anointed of the Lord”. And Lord forbid we call sin by its right name!!!
And so, we allow open error and violations of Counsel, not to mention open and notorious sin, to go undefined, unchallenged, uncharged and un-reformed.
1)Thus the La Sierra University mess, just to mention a contemporaneous issue!!! If Gerrity had been properly challenged at AUC from 1985 to 1990 he would not have established an institution that is a haven for “evolutionaries” and now must be met head-on.
2) And if Danny had been properly challenged by the church and his own board as each warning sign arose over 25 years, it is unlikely that he would ever have been allowed to burn wastefully through millions of donations, become a haven for a pedophilic non-adventist pastor and brother, not to mention a haven for miscreant workers and become outright rebellious of any oversight by church administration or the stockholders in the pews, not to mention the setting aside of Linda for the new young philly. And now must be merged or dismantled to achieve real reform!!!
3) Nor would we have had to deal with so many instances of outright apostacy in the past fifty years as our hospitals, built with the hard work and contributions of hundreds of thousands of Adventists and their supporters, were leveraged into oblivion, our educational institutions became ineffective and our churches have failed in its calling!!! Yes, Laodicea is alive and well…and has anyone really noticed the punishment for Laodicea???YES “… SPEWED OUT…”!!!
And on we could go for pages;
In the subject case, Darryl is concerned with the my straight opinion of self imposed punishment by a sexual predator that nearly killed a victim of his implicitly vicious violation of another human being. It is logical to conclude that the open and notorious sin and crime against the peace and dignity of the state was a final straw in a heart that had long since grown cold from the unpardonable sin…so much so he chose to take his own life rather than face the consequences of his actions. The pathetic wimp took an easy way out and closed the door on his own probation. OUTRAGEOUS you say??? It is a factually correct and accurate summary of the consequences of his open, notorious, coddled and unchallenged sin against himself, his fellow man, his society and ultimately his God.
While I understand the premise that you do not like the way this is “portrayed” and would prefer a “kinder and gentler portrayal” with expressed “sympathy for the sinner”, it is exactly this premise that I choose to challenge.
It was my privilege to join an evangelist in a visitation of a dyeing man, at the request of his parents, who was the victim of his own extreme sexual perversions. The evangelist made a solemn appeal for him to give his heart to his Saviour and told the man with great fervor of the Love Christ had for his soul and extended an invitation to take his stand and accept the gift of eternal life to this former Seventh-day Adventist. He told the man of his parents desire and begged him to seek forgiveness and repentance.
His response was coldly perverse as he proudly related his life of self seeking pleasure utilizing every human being, male or female, that was a willing partner in every perversion one could imagine and some you could not. He relished in the accomplishment and the “notches” in his bedstead, and proudly declared there was barely a woman in his home town he had not had his way with…and then stated he could not accept the invitation because if he had it to do over again, he would do it ALL again. He ended with a rendition of how he would like to go out, if he had ONE MORE CHANCE to ravage yet another victim.
The evangelist yet again pled with the disinterested perpetrator and he responded with a cold stare and a declaration that he would never be happy in a monogamous Heaven. It was very clear he would not respond to the call for repentance and allowed a prayer then declared it a waste of time. He died about a month later and we held a funeral but it was clear he had not come to terms with his Saviour. His soul, although soon to pass to his death, was of absolutely no concern and he “looked back” as did Lot’s wife, at his life of sin with clear and un-satisfied desire. He had committed the unpardonable sin!!!
As we prepared for the Funeral, his parents recounted how they had blocked the church from dealing with their son’s life of sin some 20 years before and wept as they struggled with the guilt that their failure to deal with the wayward son may have cost him his eternal life. They then gave a heart-felt appeal at the funeral for all church members to call sin by its name and to call violators to repent and reform while pleading for forgiveness for the error of their misguided protections.
We would do well to be much more pointed in defining open and notorious sin and the results that we will reap if it continues. Instead we coddle the sinner and allow the insidious grasp to close the soul to repentance and reformation.
So, Darryl, I leave it to you to determine if it is the “rather strong language” but I must assume we will have to adopt a much stronger language in the days just ahead. Else we will find ourselve "spewed out"...
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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Very well explained about the unpardonable sin and how it can be discerned in this incident. In fact it probably was crossed over the line the previous 20 years ago of this horrible sickness one chooses to invade upon others. It is the dead walking around dead and possessed. As I posted earlier, there is a time where Satan has his claim and devours through his instrument. Was there a chance 20 years ago once tasted of this horrible thing? Not sure, as I feel the first act of overpowering the innocent is the devastating symptom of too late. Can a pervert go without this anymore then "normal" can do without water? It so seems, but can't fathom what does this drive and can only grasp a mental disorder with Satanic possession or..they could not do it. All compassion, all sympathy, all love, all integrity, all humility, all reasoning is gone for others and their world is to devour their devilish acts, so how could one get that back at an instant at death?
and yes --much has invaded the church with much corruption as "true Christians are easy targets". and the now maze seems so overwhelming.
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A child molestor is human garbage that needs to be disposed of. So are the people who try to subvert justice from happening to a child molestor.
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A child molestor is human garbage that needs to be disposed of. So are the people who try to subvert justice from happening to a child molestor.
Who are you referring to when you say "try to subvert justice"?
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Yet we must still remember:
"Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him." (Proverbs 24:17)
If we want Tommy to really get it, we can't rejoice, lest he not really get it.
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:oops:
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Here's my view: Yes, Tommy is guilty. Yes, Tommy has to pay for what he did.
However,
Regardless of what he did, Tommy was my pastor for a large part of my life. I learned a lot under his teaching and preaching. No, that doesn't erase what he did, but the fact is I quite possibly wouldn't be a Christian today if it weren't for his ministry.
Second, all this talk of "I hope he gets his in prison" and cellmates named Bubba does nothing except keep what happened to me in the forefront of my mind. In my opinion, wanting such things to happen to him in prison is no different than an abuser using their own abuse during childhood as an excuse to abuse others.
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Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.
least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
—Galatians 5:16-21
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But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
—Revelation 21:8
Tommy may not face, "Bubba", but he will have his place in Hell. Along, with Danny, and all the other sympathizers. Defending and covering up is no different than committing the act first hand. May God's judgement be lifted, and may Grace abound!
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Everything you just wrote is 100% correct.
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Everything you just wrote is 100% correct.
:goodpost:
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Yet we must still remember:
"Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him." (Proverbs 24:17)
If we want Tommy to really get it, we can't rejoice, lest he not really get it.
Worth considering. . .
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Sentencing is this Friday. Will this be the end of the criminal battle, or will the last six month's not about to a hill of beans? Assuming that the judge rejects the plea deal which includes no jail time, one can safely assume that Tommy will withdraw the plea deal. If in fact that is the case....the prosecutor and everyone involved in the case will be right back at Phase 1.
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Yes, unrepentant sinners will end up in the lake of fire. But when you think about it, the fact that our prisons are so out of control that there can be Bubba incidents does not speak well of our prisons.
Throughout time God's people have been unjustly incarcerated. The fact that God's people could also be put in danger of rape and murder and assault while unjustly imprisoned is not a pretty thought.
Such atrocities going on in our prisons is just one more thing in this fair land that is inviting God's wrath to fall upon it.
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very, very scarry thought for the innocent imprisoned. Just think of an innocent person on death row. Just can't stomach it. and it has turned my views of our system. Why can't it be done as we are instructed? Then what happens is witnesses are brought in and paid. Money buys everthing evil in a worldly world.
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Yes, unrepentant sinners will end up in the lake of fire. But when you think about it, the fact that our prisons are so out of control that there can be Bubba incidents does not speak well of our prisons.
Throughout time God's people have been unjustly incarcerated. The fact that God's people could also be put in danger of rape and murder and assault while unjustly imprisoned is not a pretty thought.
Such atrocities going on in our prisons is just one more thing in this fair land that is inviting God's wrath to fall upon it.
Sometimes God allows "Bubba" incidents to let the perp know the feeling they put their victims in. I for one have no problem with that. Tommy should hope that does meet "bubba". That would not out weigh the agony of spending eternity in hell fire.
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It also goes to show that Hardened criminals have more respect for the youth of society than a so called ORDAINED MAN OF GOD!
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Even though God allows those who commit vile iniquity to be the victims of vile iniquity, I don't think we should want more vile iniquity to occur in this world. We are supposed to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." We are supposed to want the end of all vile iniquity, not the commission of more vile acts.
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So Bubba asks Tommy...
"Do you enjoy golf?"
Tommy replies... "Well, sure, I have to say it's my favorite sport."
Bubba laughs... "Then you'll really like Mondays. We got a driving range and a 9-par course that the block gets all day Monday."
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Oh my!!!!!
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Oh my!!!!!
:ROFL: :ROFL:
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Even though God allows those who commit vile iniquity to be the victims of vile iniquity, I don't think we should want more vile iniquity to occur in this world. We are supposed to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." We are supposed to want the end of all vile iniquity, not the commission of more vile acts.
Clearly, I would need your definition of VILE INIQUITY as defined in the comment "We are supposed to want the end of all vile iniquity, not the commission of more vile acts."
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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I have said repeatedly how such talk makes me feel, yet it continues. Perhaps it is time for me to make my exit.
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I have said repeatedly how such talk makes me feel, yet it continues. Perhaps it is time for me to make my exit.
I have not posted over here for quite some time. As a victim as well I agree with Duane. While I agree with the reason's of your anger; I calmly ask that we lay it at the feet of Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega and the judge. His justice does is more sovereign and better suited than that of {bubba} or any other man made assault!
Thank you and God Bless!
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Even though God allows those who commit vile iniquity to be the victims of vile iniquity, I don't think we should want more vile iniquity to occur in this world. We are supposed to pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." We are supposed to want the end of all vile iniquity, not the commission of more vile acts.
Clearly, I would need your definition of VILE INIQUITY as defined in the comment "We are supposed to want the end of all vile iniquity, not the commission of more vile acts."
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
I was specifically referring to rape within prisons.
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Bubba's being given a bad rap... All we know about him is that he's in prison and he likes to play golf... ;D
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I have said repeatedly how such talk makes me feel, yet it continues. Perhaps it is time for me to make my exit.
I have not posted over here for quite some time. As a victim as well I agree with Duane. While I agree with the reason's of your anger; I calmly ask that we lay it at the feet of Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega and the judge. His justice does is more sovereign and better suited than that of {bubba} or any other man made assault!
Thank you and God Bless!
:amen: :TY:
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Bubba's being given a bad rap... All we know about him is that he's in prison and he likes to play golf... ;D
This topic has NO humor in it. Let's please stop this rabbit trail.
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I have said repeatedly how such talk makes me feel, yet it continues. Perhaps it is time for me to make my exit.
I have not posted over here for quite some time. As a victim as well I agree with Duane. While I agree with the reason's of your anger; I calmly ask that we lay it at the feet of Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega and the judge. His justice does is more sovereign and better suited than that of {bubba} or any other man made assault!
Thank you and God Bless!
:amen: :TY:
I second that Amen!
- Let's turn our focus on praying for Judge Randy Bellows to make a God honoring and fearing decision on Friday.
- Let's pray that Alex and the other gentleman feel that the decision to come forward was one that was worth it no matter what the judge rules and that they feel no shame.
- Let's pray that Tommy feels the full weight of what he has done over the years and that he truly repents and makes himself accountable to a God fearing person everywhere he goes. ["...repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Acts 26:20]
- Let's pray that all of the other abuse victims know that they are sons of God no matter the outcome and that they come forward and take a stand against the unjust abuse that has happened to them, along with the brave ones that have already came forward.
- Let's pray for the countless others that Tommy may not have physically abused, but groomed them by using scriptures and inappropriate comments to try to prove that his twisted and perverted view of men is correct, in order to ultimately abuse them. (How many has he used the relationship of David and Jonathan to try to convice them that men should be more intimate and that they should allow him, a "prophet of God," to experiment with them?)
- More than anything, let's pray that God's sovereignty be magnified in VA, IL and to the ends of the earth!
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ADMIN NOTE:
I just posted this in another thread, but I see the same issues here. This is absolutely disgusting. There will be no more Bubba jokes, horsethief. And tinka, there will be no more of these comments - "you got a french fry freek, a spike and Betty Boopsie Tootsie and a cloned Fawsett". If you have something constructive to add to the discussion then by all means, post it. But if all you have to add is an ugly, degrading joke or a poke at someone's appearance then keep it to yourself!!!
ADMIN NOTE:
I don't read here as often as I used to. But recently as I have been catching up on new posts, I am struck by the lows our forum has sunk to. Can't we discuss the issues respectfully with each other without resorting to making fun of people's appearances and wondering how Tommy and Bubba will get along together? Good grief.
Our Creator hates the sin but loves the sinner. Shouldn't we strive to do the same?
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Anything to say where the pew money is going for on such "obvious vanities" put to public view??? It so appears that certain ones love to spend it on appearances that we all can see as rediculous. One would think that the pew money providers has a right to stop it with the shame or funnyness of it.
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ADMIN NOTE:
I just posted this in another thread, but I see the same issues here. This is absolutely disgusting. There will be no more Bubba jokes, horsethief. And tinka, there will be no more of these comments - "you got a french fry freek, a spike and Betty Boopsie Tootsie and a cloned Fawsett". If you have something constructive to add to the discussion then by all means, post it. But if all you have to add is an ugly, degrading joke or a poke at someone's appearance then keep it to yourself!!!
ADMIN NOTE:
I don't read here as often as I used to. But recently as I have been catching up on new posts, I am struck by the lows our forum has sunk to. Can't we discuss the issues respectfully with each other without resorting to making fun of people's appearances and wondering how Tommy and Bubba will get along together? Good grief.
Our Creator hates the sin but loves the sinner. Shouldn't we strive to do the same?
:TY:
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I second that.
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What kind of significant turmoil are you talking about? I don't remember anything about the elder Wilson.
Thanks!
Daylily
The Wilson years were marked by a number of scandals and significant losses, largely unpunished and swept under the rug of corporate "christianity"...these are documented in "Who Watches? Who Cares?" by Doug Hackleman and since I had the unfortunate privilege of investigating many of these issues or worked with those who did, I can say that he has dochumented the issues very well.
We lost Harris Pine Mills and saw the deterioration of educational systems, the failure of our North American LE Programs, the utilization of non-SDA lawfirms to pursue litigation against the brethren for various issues, the emrgence of a number of powerful independent ministries (largely an outgrowth of protest and building of churches within a church), including 3ABN, despite the counsel of many.
Our Medical ministries restructured into several Adventis Health Systems and were heavily leveraged in direct contradiction of counsel at the turn of the 20th century.
And probably most significantly we moved toward the premise that we must become a mainstream religion instead of a distinct people, all in the quest to avoid being called a "CULT".
This lead to a coup where the chairman of the GC Nominating committee and a conference president being elected President and then was charged with serious violations of ethics by the current president and set aside mid-term by resigning to avoid being thrown out for having a business relationship with the Vatican Bank and a Vatican Subsidiary.
Beleive me, the history is not one we wish to repeat, not that I expect any man will bring about the reformation we need as the Lord makes it clear that He must manifest exhibit His Spirit within the church at the correct moment.
That moment will arrive regardless of whom is the President.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
Thank you for the explanation. I'll have to do some research on this time period.
Daylily
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Finally!!! :thumbsup:
ADMIN NOTE:
I just posted this in another thread, but I see the same issues here. This is absolutely disgusting. There will be no more Bubba jokes, horsethief. And tinka, there will be no more of these comments - "you got a french fry freek, a spike and Betty Boopsie Tootsie and a cloned Fawsett". If you have something constructive to add to the discussion then by all means, post it. But if all you have to add is an ugly, degrading joke or a poke at someone's appearance then keep it to yourself!!!
ADMIN NOTE:
I don't read here as often as I used to. But recently as I have been catching up on new posts, I am struck by the lows our forum has sunk to. Can't we discuss the issues respectfully with each other without resorting to making fun of people's appearances and wondering how Tommy and Bubba will get along together? Good grief.
Our Creator hates the sin but loves the sinner. Shouldn't we strive to do the same?
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I have to agree with the moderator's decision.
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I have to agree with the moderator's decision.
:dogwag:
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Tell me, what do you call a person that hits the unnecessary vanity money waste in tanning booths so much that the circles of whites around the eyes makes em look like a burnt coon setting in a so called religious light presentation on World wide tv? They got something freakish wrong. It just goes along with the rest of their freakish acts. Then the very ones that don't like straight talk and reason are the ones that put on here about the Betsy B.....ps and all her shenanigans and don't think for a moment that public view does not have its critics. Yep, people do not like critics of their public antics, of Hope channel, and the rest. Most do not like Gailons straight out talk either and define it as crude. I can tell you one thing, it gets your attention to whats wrong in a flower covered black box. The religious programming lets one move on to "less" freakish discernment of presenters inner concoctions displayed in order to see what is real out there. Why be afraid to call it what it is? and you also must realize you have victims that are not SDA on here that have been able to express their hurts that have come from these very cover up people. They vent and you really don't like it and what did you enticers of them coming on here to show proof to the sympathisers expect? You don't like truth from within so what do you think outside public discernment is? :oops: click the channel off. Remember the one religious channel with the blonde multi shaded pink colors of bushel basket hair due. I thought someone must be insane to portray their "freakish beauty they think of their self like that. So my vision of under the banner of SDA presentations at the ":corral" ..some are hilarious when they show off their inner self. But shisssssss hush!!!!!!! Don't let anyone see in the reality box!!! Sure am glad EW knew when to call a bent stick.. a bent stick...and angels call it "food for the worms".
So if this is a biased hush talk site so be it. You can teach old dogs(ways) "nothing".
correction, added words.
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Proverbs 18:21
21 The tongue has the power of life and death,
and those who love it will eat its fruit.
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ADMIN HAT ON
You call them a child of God, tinka. You, my friend, need to back off the personal attacks and the snide remarks about this site. This will be your last warning.
ADMIN HAT OFF
Tell me, what do you call a person that hits the unnecessary vanity money waste in tanning booths so much that the circles of whites around the eyes makes em look like a burnt coon setting in a so called religious light presentation on World wide tv? They got something freakish wrong. It just goes along with the rest of their freakish acts. Then the very ones that don't like straight talk and reason are the ones that put on here about the Betsy B.....ps and all her shenanigans and don't think for a moment that public view does not have its critics. Yep, people do not like critics of their public antics, of Hope channel, and the rest. Most do not like Gailons straight out talk either and define it as crude. I can tell you one thing, it gets your attention to whats wrong in a flower covered black box. The religious programming lets one move on to "less" freakish discernment of presenters inner concoctions displayed in order to see what is real out there. Why be afraid to call it what it is? and you also must realize you have victims that are not SDA on here that have been able to express their hurts that have come from these very cover up people. They vent and you really don't like it and what did you enticers of them coming on here to show proof to the sympathisers expect? You don't like truth from within so what do you think outside public discernment is? :oops: click the channel off. Remember the one religious channel with the blonde multi shaded pink colors of bushel basket hair due. I thought someone must be insane to portray their "freakish beauty they think of their self like that. So my vision of under the banner of SDA presentations at the ":corral" ..some are hilarious when they show off their inner self. But shisssssss hush!!!!!!! Don't let anyone see in the reality box!!! Sure am glad EW knew when to call a bent stick.. a bent stick...and angels call it "food for the worms".
So if this is a biased hush talk site so be it. You can teach old dogs(ways) "nothing".
correction, added words.
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Tinka's a little nuts some times, but none the less entertaining. She never typed anything wrong...
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Tell me, what do you call a person that hits the unnecessary vanity money waste in tanning booths so much that the circles of whites around the eyes makes em look like a burnt coon setting in a so called religious light presentation on World wide tv? They got something freakish wrong. It just goes along with the rest of their freakish acts. Then the very ones that don't like straight talk and reason are the ones that put on here about the Betsy B.....ps and all her shenanigans and don't think for a moment that public view does not have its critics. Yep, people do not like critics of their public antics, of Hope channel, and the rest. Most do not like Gailons straight out talk either and define it as crude. I can tell you one thing, it gets your attention to whats wrong in a flower covered black box. The religious programming lets one move on to "less" freakish discernment of presenters inner concoctions displayed in order to see what is real out there. Why be afraid to call it what it is? and you also must realize you have victims that are not SDA on here that have been able to express their hurts that have come from these very cover up people. They vent and you really don't like it and what did you enticers of them coming on here to show proof to the sympathisers expect? You don't like truth from within so what do you think outside public discernment is? :oops: click the channel off. Remember the one religious channel with the blonde multi shaded pink colors of bushel basket hair due. I thought someone must be insane to portray their "freakish beauty they think of their self like that. So my vision of under the banner of SDA presentations at the ":corral" ..some are hilarious when they show off their inner self. But shisssssss hush!!!!!!! Don't let anyone see in the reality box!!! Sure am glad EW knew when to call a bent stick.. a bent stick...and angels call it "food for the worms".
So if this is a biased hush talk site so be it. You can teach old dogs(ways) "nothing".
correction, added words.
:TY: :goodpost:
Sometimes the truth hurts....
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Tinka's a little nuts some times, but none the less entertaining. She never typed anything wrong...
It shows she is passionate about her beliefs. I do not see her comments as personal attacks, but truth. As I stated sometimes the truth hurts!
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and Jesus called some of His (childs ) vipers!
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and Jesus called some of His (childs ) vipers!
:dogwag:
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Tinka's a little nuts some times, but none the less entertaining. She never typed anything wrong...
All depends whether the facts are nuts, or the nuts don't know facts. Some nuts like extremely colorful adjectives that brings ridiculous nuts into "reality". and some nuts are extremely uncrackable and go unused and stay in their shell forever.
Some nuts are picked out better then some others and consumed with prejudice for their chosen taste of same taste from the rest of the nuts. and a really true good nut doesn't know they are a nut. No I have never posted anything that can be denied by true facts of the consumption of nuts from this here tree and scientifically engineered facts of nuts.
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and Jesus called some of His (childs ) vipers!
My point exactly. No need to hide the "truth", I believe it should be told how it's portrayed. You have absolute fakes running 3abn. They spend their money on self gratification.... Ie. Fake hair, boob jobs, facial enhancements, and the list goes on. Who's paying for this crap people?! I'll tell you who, the average bear!! The little old lady who believes in her heart that 3ABN is doing the will of God!!! When in reality they are doing the opposite. WAKE UP!!!
No need to sugar coat the truth...It is time they are exposed for who they are... and what they are. Mercy went out the window a long time ago, 3ABN BELIEVES that child molestation, adultery, and lies is PART OF THE WILL OF GOD!!! Yet, people aren't allowed to call it as they see it???? What is wrong with this Picture?????
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Have we all forgotten these things?
1. Who's truck was parked at another womans during late nights? Don't tell me there wasn't any bed rocking going on those nights!!
2. Who left his wife because he said she was an adulterer when the truth was he was the one pleasuring other women!!
3. Do we not remember that BW lied about those plane tickets?
4.Have we forgotten that Danny married almost immediately after his divorce to linda, and on top of that married a floozy..we seen how long that lasted!!! Now he's with a girl in Texas....Unbelievable.
5. The same man who claims to be the "founder of 3ABN" hides the sins of his brother "Pastor" Tommy Shelton, and gives him the opportunity to prey on others???!!!!
Yet, we want to sugar coat the truth? :scratch: :o :-\ The truth has been hidden for too long, and as long as we encourage to be sugar coated we are as GUILTY as the sympathizers. I guess it is much easier to stay "hush hush" then to expose it for what it is!
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The truth doesn't need to be cloaked with sugar, venom, or anything else. It stands on its own feet. And no, no one has forgotten.
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The truth doesn't need to be cloaked with sugar, venom, or anything else. It stands on its own feet. And no, no one has forgotten.
Well it seems that "some want to tighten the lid" on the can. I believe that lid has been to tight for to long. It's time to take the lid off!
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Poco a poco se va lejos.
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Responding to Lily:
Lily posted this:
by Lilly » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:04 am UTC
Everyone, someone has been filling Adam's ears full of lies about 3ABN. One thing Adam forgot to do--go check it out for himself before repeating it on AdventTalk. A real man would have checked out these accusations to find out what is the truth before spreading it over the internet. A real man would have enough respect for others to go see from the source if these accusations are true or not before spreading them abroad.
This reminds me of some little old ladies who are so bored with life all they enjoy doing is making up and spreading stories about people. Somehow it gives their unproductive lives a little jolt, sort of like a powerful drug. It makes them feel important and big. Never mind that they've hurt other people or ruined their reputations. They don't care, like the druggie, they return for their little "jolt" as often as possible. And the more titillating they can make it the better to talk about, the higher the jolt.
In my opinion people who are like this are psychotic.
Lilly
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:32 pm UTC
Well Lilly, be a woman and come over here and Prove me wrong! The truth is you won't do that, as you know I am correct. I am giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong!! So come on Mrs. Lilly this is your chance!
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Responding to Lily:
Lily posted this:
by Lilly » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:04 am UTC
Everyone, someone has been filling Adam's ears full of lies about 3ABN. One thing Adam forgot to do--go check it out for himself before repeating it on AdventTalk. A real man would have checked out these accusations to find out what is the truth before spreading it over the internet. A real man would have enough respect for others to go see from the source if these accusations are true or not before spreading them abroad.
This reminds me of some little old ladies who are so bored with life all they enjoy doing is making up and spreading stories about people. Somehow it gives their unproductive lives a little jolt, sort of like a powerful drug. It makes them feel important and big. Never mind that they've hurt other people or ruined their reputations. They don't care, like the druggie, they return for their little "jolt" as often as possible. And the more titillating they can make it the better to talk about, the higher the jolt.
In my opinion people who are like this are psychotic.
Lilly
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:32 pm UTC
Well Lilly, be a woman and come over here and Prove me wrong! The truth is you won't do that, as you know I am correct. I am giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong!! So come on Mrs. Lilly this is your chance!
I sent Debbie (Lilly) a message telling her she needs to quit declaring Tommy innocent as well.
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I do not understand for the life of me how they still think they can defend him. Especially since he has admitted he molested them. It's unbelievable.
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Re: BOLD LIARS!!
by Lilly » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:45 am UTC
Adam, I don't post over there...ever!
Duane--better keep on with your guessing game as to who I am.
Ok, then you have no reason to even question what I post. You say I am mis-informed, so I gave you the opportunity to come over and disprove me. You refused.
You said and I quote:
"A real man would have checked out these accusations to find out what is the truth before spreading it over the internet. A real man would have enough respect for others to go see from the source if these accusations are true or not before spreading them abroad."
Well? You had your chance. That would leave a person with a right mind to believe that my statments are absolutley correct and cannot be refuted!
By the way, I'm glad you don't post over here. You can keep your "diseased" ideas elsewhere.
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:ROFL: Lily must read over here cause she is using my adjective "disease". and one thing that Lily does not phantom about little old ladies. They got knowledge, experiece, and years to know the consequences of being "intimidated by fools of folly".
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No, Debbie. It's not a game. If you don't want to be called out, then stop with the "Tommy is innocent and the victims are lying" garbage. You sound like a lunatic.
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And Donna? I could also ask what the Tommy Shelton situation has to do with you, and why you comment on it? That goes for your meddling daughter as well.
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And Donna? I could also ask what the Tommy Shelton situation has to do with you, and why you comment on it? That goes for your meddling daughter as well.
:goodpost: Good point, Duane! Can we sake calling the Kettle black?
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And Donna? I could also ask what the Tommy Shelton situation has to do with you, and why you comment on it? That goes for your meddling daughter as well.
Donna says this:
"When someone states ugly things about others it is up to them to prove their statements. Some of them seem to think that it is up to the others to prove it is not true. IMO it should be taken as nothing but silly childish talk. No one ever gets anywhere by stepping upon others anyway."
Seems as if that lesson was lost on daughter Cindy... :dunno:
If you recall, Cindy was permanently banned here after she continuously made ugly accusations about me that she could not prove.
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Snoopy, notice a pattern?
Danny thought that Linda talking on the telephone was worse than Tommy molesting boys, since he got Linda fired and replaced her in some of her functions with Tommy.
Cindy publicly condemned someone for allegedly talking on the telephone, but still, to my knowledge, hasn't come out against Danny covering up the child molestation allegations against Tommy, or against Tommy for molesting boys.
Is this common that people think talking on the telephone (in certain ways or at certain times or to certain people) is worse than covering up child molestation and vile immorality?
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I flat out don't believe ANYONE called Cindy. She has provided no proof, as she requires of others. Therefore, it must be a lie.
I also believe she is lying about being a sexual abuse victim. She has provided no proof of that, either.
Cindy has some questions she is refusing to answer. It is reasonable to assume that's because she is making false accusations against innocent people. How deplorable.
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First of all, Donna, knock off the poor pitiful me act; it makes you look insane. Dementia or Alzheimer's maybe?
Donna using her "diseased, corrupt" mind posted the following over at her trash site: Responces are mine in color.
Donna:
It seems my writing to Lily stirred up a hornets nest at AT. I would like to set a few things straight. I have not written about TS in anyway so for anyone to state anything about me concerning TS is uncalled for.(Liar!) Also, Cindy did write, very nicely I might add, about how she looked at the TS situation. I might add, I agree with her. She cannot be held responsible for how others perceive, twist or distort what she wrote. (Dry it up, mother!)
I am a soldier( of Satan) on the wall defending 3ABN from those who viciously attack with their words of false accusations, rumors and gossip. (Your daughter is the biggest gossiper, Donna! You sure didn't raise her very well if that's your belief!)3ABN and it's workers are working for God and their fellowman; preparing a people for our Lord's soon coming. I stand with them. I can see the need for that by what is written by the few members at AT and how others hearing it repeated over and over begin to believe and repeat it as truth. (You are so blind, or ignorant which is it?)
They want to make Cindy out as a liar. Nothing could be further from the truth. She mostly posts proof of factual and documented things. If it is her opinion she states that. She is not perfect, no one is, but she prays about and tries to do her best. She continues to grow in the Lord. (Donna how can you live with yourself spouting off lies?)
I didn't think I would ever talk about this in public but Cindy was abused. Her dad and I held the shocked, young, shivering and frightened girl in our arms. It does no one any good to even suggest it never happened. It makes me sad for those who are doing so. Cindy is an example of how, with the Lord's help, one can overcome the worst of things and not seek vengeance, be bitter, angry or let it affect their lives in any negative way. (Really? I think she is a liar...how does that make you feel, Donna? Hopefully horrible seeing that you and your satanic daughter don't mind calling other victims liars...If she was actually abused which I doubt she would know how it is to be called a liar, and be afraid to tell anyone about the situation. Again, Dry it up Donna)
We have four phone extensions in our home and all of us were awakened by those phone calls with the sick person at the other end. She, the woman, also stated the same exact words that were said publicly in posts to Cindy. The woman had to be drunk or on drugs because it is hard for me to believe anyone would say and act so evilly otherwise. (Prove, it or shut or up!)
Repent individuals at AT for the Lord is coming and soon!!! (Yes, he is and you better be ready, Donna!!)
Donna
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Time to tone it down a few notches. We can disagree all we want, but it MUST be kept civil in tone. The rules of this forum require it. No more of the ugly name-calling and personal attacks. You can disagree with points being made without tearing a person to shreds.
The Forum Rules can be reviewed here http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1431.0.html (http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index.php/topic,1431.0.html)
Members are particularly advised to carefully consider the following rule before making any post
2. Members agree to post respectfully and treat each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. Members will not post any material which is knowingly false, defamatory, inaccurate, baiting, flaming, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, irrelevant and intentionally derogatory personal information, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.
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I apologize if I stepped over the line. My point was to illustrate how it feels to be called a liar just because you don't provide the "proof" someone demands. It doesn't feel very good, does it, Donna? That's exactly how we feel when it is done to us.
Hopefully this will be in remembrance from this point forward.
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In most cases of childhood sexual abuse there is no proof to be provided. That is one reason why so much of it is never dealt with. Also, children and adults who have no proof usually fear being called liars and having further shame and abuse heaped on them, and therefore they refrain from reporting it.
I also believe she is lying about being a sexual abuse victim. She has provided no proof of that, either.
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My concern is with the overall tone of the forum. Sometimes we start sliding without realizing and it escalates. Then we need to take a breather and reset back to where we should be.
Yes, it is surprising to see someone who has been in those circumstances treating people in that manner.
I apologize if I stepped over the line. My point was to illustrate how it feels to be called a liar just because you don't provide the "proof" someone demands. It doesn't feel very good, does it, Donna? That's exactly how we feel when it is done to us.
Hopefully this will be in remembrance from this point forward.
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There's a so-called pastor in my community that just got convicted and sentenced to 10 years in the state prison. He was one of those wannabes that got a ministerial license through the county he was in and then called himself a pastor. Well this guy was holding these 'groups' on "relationship building" and claiming to have some enlightened knowledge that no one else had and all this kind of horse manure. He was trying to get SDA's to come to his 'groups' because he knows the SDA's in the community are mostly educated and have jobs, although he wasn't SDA. Well he got a few SDA's to go around and tell everyone how wonderful he was. Most people thought of him as a fraud. But what's so shocking is that the people who thought he was so great just can't get that he's a child molestor, even though he pleaded guilty. They say how sorry they are for him.
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:oops:
:-\
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There's a so-called pastor in my community that just got convicted and sentenced to 10 years in the state prison. He was one of those wannabes that got a ministerial license through the county he was in and then called himself a pastor. Well this guy was holding these 'groups' on "relationship building" and claiming to have some enlightened knowledge that no one else had and all this kind of horse manure. He was trying to get SDA's to come to his 'groups' because he knows the SDA's in the community are mostly educated and have jobs, although he wasn't SDA. Well he got a few SDA's to go around and tell everyone how wonderful he was. Most people thought of him as a fraud. But what's so shocking is that the people who thought he was so great just can't get that he's a child molestor, even though he pleaded guilty. They say how sorry they are for him.
This story is quite universal. Similar things happen all over the world.
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The point of this discussion is that "similar things" happened in Dun Loring, Va and in Southern Illinois and the annointed one has consistently worked overtime to protect a perpetrator, including hiring him at 3ABN when he knew very well he was an unconverted child molester, a pedophile of the most vile order over several decades and deserves accountability...a concept that only applies to NON-Shelton's per the unilateral decision of the Annointed one.
is
It is D-day, H-Hour and we must now demand accountability for Tommy Ray Shelton's decades of moral decadence and the violation of the most sacred trust of pastoral calling...not to mention the cover-ups of a misguided brother who enabled the ongoing conduct. Now they must all be accountable and I for one believe it is long past due.
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter
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From a letter:
Hi Linda I am glad things are going a little better for you. I was pleased to hear that Nathan is doing better and that Allysia is now a PA. That is all wonderful news I do hope that you get your rightful settlement from Danny. I am sure that you have heard that Tommy Ray has been arrested which gives me somewhat of a sense of closure on the Ezra Church Of God mess. It all just takes time and a lot of healing but life does go on somehow. I myself have never been able to attend any church regulary since I found out about Tommy my beloved Pastor. That was in the early 80's. . .
I wish you and yours the best.
Sincerely, . . .