Advent Talk
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: tinka on August 21, 2009, 05:04:48 AM
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Michelle Obama's staff makes: $1,256,700.00. That is excluding 6 people we do not know their salary. This does not include anything else she spends, her trips, etc. How outrageous is that??? When our country is in the trouble we are in...This is beyond belief and I say should be stopped..Send this to your congress critters and tell them to stop the funding for Michelle Obama.... Virginia Brooks
Check snopes http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp
Mrs. Bush had 16 staff with “first Lady” in their title. Not that I’m excusing Mrs. O, it’s all outrageous but the Republicans were no better at saving my money than the Dems!
Nancy Gail Falster
903.629.3034
www.falsterfarm.com
http://www.southerngrace.biz
Excerpt:
There has never been anyone in the White House at any time that has created such an army of staffers whose sole duties are the facilitation of the First Lady's social life. One wonders why she needs so much help, at taxpayer expense, when even Hillary, only had three; Jackie Kennedy one; Laura Bush, 16; and prior to Mamie Eisenhower social help came from the President's own pocket.
Subject: outrageous
This will really infuriate you!
Michelle Obama's Attendants
No, Michele Obama does not get paid to serve as the First Lady and she doesn't perform any official duties. But this hasn't deterred her from hiring an unprecedented number of staffers to cater to her every whim and to satisfy her every request in the midst of the Great Recession. Just think Mary Lincoln was taken to task for purchasing china for the White House during the Civil War. And Mamie Eisenhower had to shell out the salary for her personal secretary.
If you're one of the tens of millions of Americans facing certain destitution, earning less than subsistence wages stocking the shelves at Wal-Mart or serving up McDonald cheeseburgers, prepare to scream and then come to realize that the benefit package for these servants of Miz Michelle are the same as members of the national security and defense departments and the bill for these assorted lackeys is paid by John Q. Public:
1. $172,200- Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)
2. $140,000 - Frye, Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy And Projects For The First Lady)
3. $113,000 - Rogers, Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary)
4. $102,000 - Johnston, Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady)
5. Winter, Melissa E. (Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
6. $90,000 - Medina, David S. (Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
7. $84,000 - Lelyveld, Catherine M. (Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady)
8. $75,000 - Starkey, Frances M. (Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady)
9. $70,000 - Sanders, Trooper (Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady)
10. $65,000 - Burnough, Erinn J. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
11. Reinstein, Joseph B. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
12. $62,000 - Goodman, Jennifer R. (Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady)
13. $60,000 - Fitts, Alan O. (Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady)
14. Lewis, Dana M. (Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady)
15. $52,500 - Mustaphi, Semonti M. (Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady)
16. $50,000 - Jarvis, Kristen E. (Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady)
17. $45,000 - Lechtenberg, Tyler A. (Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady)
18. Tubman, Samantha (Deputy Associate Director, Social Office)
19. $40,000 - Boswell, Joseph J. (Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
20. $36,000 - Armbruster, Sally M. (Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary)
21. Bookey, Natalie (Staff Assistant)
22. Jackson, Deilia A. (Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady)
There has never been anyone in the White House at any time that has created such an army of staffers whose sole duties are the facilitation of the First Lady's social life. One wonders why she needs so much help, at taxpayer expense, when even Hillary, only had three; Jackie Kennedy one; Laura Bush one; and prior to Mamie Eisenhower social help came from the President's own pocket.
Note: This does not include makeup artist Ingrid Grimes-Miles, 49, and "First Hairstylist" Johnny Wright, 31, both of whom travelled aboard Air Force One to Europe.
For the record, Laura Bush had one paid staff member.
(Well, Obama did promise to create jobs.)
and this is just the drop in the bucket Christian!!
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.....and your point is? This doesn't need to be defended or even explained. She has staff......the entire staff only makes $1+ mill and there are how many of them? What, her husband can create jobs, but not in the White house....work is work, right? ANd most importantly where you posting outrage when Laura Bush had large staff. Your article says Laura bush had 16 staffers, are you saying 15 of them were volunteers? Or just disagreeing with your own source? Are you suggesting that they add to the unemployment line by reducing the size of the White House staff?
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fuuunnniiieeee.... :ROFL: What more can you expect for justifications
The person that wrote this was Dem. and did the Laura Bush scenario sort of in anger like you where you read 16. She was replying back to the article. Actually at the end you would see the correct no of Bush is one according if you go into research and find the orginal reports from white house staff or are they lying??.
This Obama staff is milking the system hired by or provided by Obama or Michelle. This is disgusting. As far as the shorts go, all previous first ladies are cultured and refined to not be in public like this when they hold this position. If you want to know class, check out the queen of England and follow suit. Can't you just see Elizabeth prancing around in shorts. She is a refined and cultured lady Queen. Our American office needs the same respect. I will let you find out what mob pants are and I am suprised you do not know. I about did a flip when MO went to the dance in that horrible white bazoon. At least it was funny. Money cannot make her class until she gets it herself. or she needs to hire more staff with better suggestions. That now is my own opinion of her social look along with many others.
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Lady, you really have some deep seated problems, you used the queen of England as an example? Dont you realize that they are the most wasteful useless bunch of people. If Michelle used them as an example she would have a 100 X more help. Honestly, you need to check your history cause some problems are really deep rooted and can only be corrected upon examination. I bet one thing is for sure and maybe this is what is infuriating you, she is the best looking first lady we have ever had. I think the reason that the other ladies did not wear shorts is because they would be so ugly that it would disgrace the entire United States. As far as what class is, what makes you and exspert on class.
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You need to pay more attention to what is being said and read what and how words are stated. No body said a thing about being wasteful in England or how their system is. I was talking about the class of dress that is in total respect of office. I am not agreeable with their system at all, but evidently you ARE as you back this monstrous Obama Socialistic, healthcare take down and all the rest of his agenda the same as England has and Canada. No MO is not the most beautiful first lady of which is a matter of opinion and instead if you take off that makeup you can get a true look. She plain does not know how to dress that accents all her bad parts. The make up does a lot for her if that is what your looking at. Jackie was class and Laura Bush. Hiliary was more masculine then lady. Of the women on scene the most beautiful is Sarah!! What makes any body a expert on class is to know Bibical what is modest, neatly and beautifully styled into simplicity and according to your words you don't know what that is. I did not see that in the white Bazoon, funny looking, flyaway, rediculous dance or ball gown or what ever it was to portray anything at all except lack of intelligance in dress. Style and class are too different things of which I am seeing you would not understand. Example. Mob pants are a style. so is the grundge look.
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Obviously, you are not reading what you are writing. Often people live in a delusional world based on their likes and dislikes. The dress in the bible is not the same dress as today, but because you are older, that is my guess, you like the queen of Englands dress. As far as healthcare goes, I am very qualified to answer that question especially as it deals with insurance companies. You have no idea what you are talking about; do you realize the millions of dollars we pay to executives and the like at the insurance companies? Do you understand the billions of dollars we pay for executives and share holders of insurance and drug companies. Do you have any idea of the amount of people that do not have insurance, or adequate coverage? Do you not realize the thousands a year that are forced into bankrupcy because of catastrophic illnesses or just he inability to pay? I can bet you don't, my guess is you are so against anything the Obama's do and for that reason you will allow many to go uninsured or get dropped by the insurance companies.---You place style over substance because you are brainwashed by those in the position of power that dress up and then strip you naked. You talked about Michelles makeup without realizing that Sarah, Jackie, and Laura bush all wear makeup and would look like a scarecrow without it. You started your post talking about all the money used by Michelle's people but what about your queeny. Then you have to call Hillary masculine; I wonder what you look like? In anycase I do believe that Healthcare should be a right for all people, I believe Jesus would want it that way.
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Your are so right about the insurance companies and it amazes me that you can not detect the rest of the story. If Obama was in his right field of agenda this is where he needed to start his clean up. with the insurance not turn America into socialism as you do not understand what that will do.
You completely jump around like a :rabbit: caused by your own justification of everything they do. Let me tell you I am older and was taught that elegance and simplicity in dress is Biblical. The only mention of the Queen is because of her ability for elegance. I did not mention her smoking of which is shocking but it is never done in public. I also stated that the president of the U.S and first lady should have the same respect. Even his beer drinking should be kept out of eye as that also states wheat else you can depend on wrongly done too. Usually people that dress flamboyancy have hang ups. Their character is then determined as you may have caught on as the the media and the same everywhere. It does not matter how you hit as I compare to the standards that are put before us especially. Then you must realize you are blinded by racism in their quest for all equality in financial. Problem is not all have the ability to handle finances white or black. Check out the handouts and then look at the spending on ciggies, booze, prostitution, gambling (is a big one on the lottery where they still are looking for something for nothing) on and on and on. So look again start where the problem is (the insurance companies) not make the rest of us that work suffer financially in your idea of a "man works so the others eat theory". again this is not Biblical but "man" directing in different directions God's plan. I believe it is me that keeps focused on facts and the political experiences we have been through. You need to age a bit more and study more it appears. I do know some that have adopted the theory of just being American and free (so far) in thought and deeds and drop the culture of bygone days. That is what creates the racism to still linger. I do not want racism and will ignore any fact of it as I believe in American only with no difference. I will not stand for any of Obamas agenda that take away our American way of life that will be gone if people will not stand up. But somehow I think that is starting to happen for a bit anyway but prophecy is coming. Are you not Adventists to know that??.
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Here are what outside people are talking about and distributing everywhere. I am not saying I believe in any of this but this is why evengelicals are looking deep. I do not know anything of Bible code and do not put in or take away. But just take a glimpse at utube links and read what the outside people really think. I do not have proof either way. But yes an uprising is coming because this country was founded on God's principles or it would not have the dead honored for freedom in soils across the lands.
F BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA HAS NOTHING TO HIDE, THEN WHY DOES HE NOT PRODUCE THE DOCUMENTS BELOW::::?????? MAKE SURE YOU READ ESPECIALLY THE LAST ARTICLE HERE...GOOD ONE...VIRGINIA MAY; BROOKS
Why are these Barack Hussein Obama documents off-limits to Americans?
http://countusout.wordpress.com/
1. Certified copy of original birth certificate
2. Columbia University transcripts
3. Columbia thesis paper
4. Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5. Harvard University transcripts
6. Illinois State Senate records
7. Illinois State Senate schedule
8. Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9. Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mothers
10. Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11. Occidental College Transcripts
12. Parent’s marriage Certificate
13. Record of baptism
14. Selective Service registration records
15. Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16. Scholarly articles
17. List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
18. Punahou grade school records
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If you watched the bible codes series, you can relate to this video.....I am NOT saying this is true of Obama,...but the codes match up...Shirl
Along with everything else comes a very interesting video concerning 7 strange coincidences about obama...They may be nothing more than just "coincidences ", but some things in life just can't be so easily explained away and this is why I am sending this video out to everyone in my patriot address book.....You decide for yourself, truth or just coincidence!!!....bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UOKTNFMgQ8
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Give this to your pastor...!!!
This POTUS covers Jesus, denies we are a Christina nation, refused to participate in the National Day of Prayer, stays our of church and says and does other acts against Christianity, yet he has the audacity to ask CHRISTIAN leaders to help him sell a DEATHcare plan to the American people...? Hopefully the Christian leaders aren't as veiled as are his followers. You all got the news about this this past week...it was all over the news about his teleconference call to those 140,000 church leaders to help him sell his deathcare plan to us. Read on.......
http://www.desertconservative.com/category/actsbills/
a.. Home
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Obama's DESPERATE ACTS TO FURTHER SOCIALISM IN AMERICA
Published by Lee S. Gliddon, Jr. on Aug 23rd, 2009
Submitted by: Marie Woods
OBAMA MAKES A POLITICAL BOOTY CALL TO THE CHURCH.
BY Doug Giles
What's this? Obama now needs the Church-which he's been regularly dissing-to come to his aid and help "prod Congress" to pass his Health Scare Deform Swill? Well, la-di-da. In the words of the angry and bad serial dater, Alanis Morissette, "Isn't it ironic, don't 'cha think? A little too ironic, and yeah, I really do think."
Barack's call to believers this past week is the political equivalent of the phenomenon randy kiddos in our culture refer to as a "booty call."
For those not familiar with the term "booty call," it's the anxious, last minute, late in the game, last ditch, frantic and insincere BS-laden personal gratification phone call made by a manipulative, narcissistic man to a gullible and needy girl who has been, heretofore, summarily blown off by said guy for other girls.
Yep, in his pursuit of "better things," the dude, unsuccessful in his new venture, will once again return to the girl he knows is easy and still hopeful that the load of crap he's about to spew, in his desperate call to gratify his lusts, will finally come true. Fueled on false hope and therefore open to lies, the gullible girl easily caves to the caller's wishes-only to be left in the dust after the guy gets what he wants, leaving the booty callee feeling very used and deceived. This is exactly what Obama be doin'. True dat.
In a move that would make Saul Alinsky proud, Obama is now calling on Christians for help. As the Church Lady would say, "Well isn't that special?" I wonder why he didn't call me? I'm a Christian. I have a weekly column tens of thousands far and wide read. I have a radio show on the IRN/USA Radio Network. Hmmm. That's weird. No call. Any who . . .
Let me get this straight, Mr. President, in regard to who you're calling: Would this be the same group of Christians you've been ticking off for the last several months?
Are you, Barack, reaching out your hand to the religious folks you backhanded in San Francisco during the election, calling them "bitter and clingy?" Oops!
Is it the same group of Christians that took offense at you covering up Christian symbols when you spoke at Georgetown University? Forgot about that one, didn't you? We didn't.
Would it also be the group of Christians that didn't dig you saying America isn't a Christian nation while on your America Sucks European Apology Tour? I know, nobody's perfect, eh?
Is this the same flock that does not, how would you say . . . "embrace" . . . your radical stances on abortion and isn't too cool with your proposed federal funding for abortion in your unread Health Care legislation?
Are these Christians the very ones whom the darling liberal organization, the ACLU, regularly threatens to sue when they pray over a meal at school or say something remotely conservative from the pulpit, or on TV, or on the radio? Shouldn't Barry Lynn be on TV right now moaning and groaning about the separation of church and state? Where are you Barry, you little Nancy boy? C'mon Lynn, condemn the president, you gutless girlfriend. Sorry, I got in the flesh there. Let me resume my query.
Would this be the faithful crowd your twerps have referred to as the Taliban, Nazis, unpatriotic mobs, or the folks the Department of Homeland Security advises should be watched for potential terrorist attacks against our God-blessed nation? Huh?
Lastly, is this the same group of Christians whom Pelosi, the Left-bent mainstream media, liberal Hollywood, the blogosphere and liberal comedians summarily whiz on at every opportunity? Would that be the bunch you'd wish to cheerlead for Thy cause? Because if it be, B-HO, you might find yourself SOL, namely, sure outta luck. You want us to support you? Yeah, and people in hell want ice water. Ain't gonna happen.
Obama is using the God mallet in his awkward, frantic attempts to sway the masses, the same mallet that clobbered Bush when he used it. Come on, MSNBC, Obama's talking like a theocrat. Go get him! He's yammering on about God, morals and sin! WTH? Why are you so silent, Bill Maher? Christopher Hitchens, where's your outrage, old chap?
Obama's calling Christians. Now that's funny, I don't care who you are. What's next? Is B-HO going to call the NRA for support? Or maybe he's going to give the Jewish community a jingle (because this Hamas-endorsed president is no pal of Israel). What? He already did? I told you so. It's just a matter of time before our cocoa Chrysostom rings Lapierre for a little health care yak.
Regarding WWJD: Well, from what I gather from the Gospels, Jesus didn't heal everybody and was definitely no fan of the big government that eventually killed Him. Selah. And if we're going to ponder His divine thoughts about health care, what about His other stuff like salvation, sin, sacrifice and obedience? Do I here crickets chirping? Dipsticks.
And lastly-forgive me for rambling-my advice to pastors contemplating prodding congress to pass this 1,100-page diaper wipe: I hope you're close with Obama because you might need him for a bailout. Yep, I'm afraid that if your congregation finds out about your giddiness over His Highness' health edict you're going to see a drop in your attendance and a big slash in your tithe when they discover you stand behind this socialistic mess.
Church, understand this: What Obama did this past week in giving us a buzz was a booty call. Nothing more and nothing less than a call for relief from someone who is not getting what he wants to those he thinks are stupid and thus easy.
Written by Doug Giles
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IF BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA HAS NOTHING TO HIDE, THEN WHY DOES HE NOT PRODUCE THE DOCUMENTS BELOW::::??????
You know, of course, that many of George W. Bush's records are missing, too, such as the ones covering his service -- or lack of it -- in the National Guard. It is believed by many that W. went AWOL.
As for health insurance, I don't think a person's health should be at the sole dictate of private business. A person -- or their health -- should not be put up for auction to the highest bidder in a private market.
My Canadian friends think the Canadian system works just fine.
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Grasshopper,
Maybe your health has not been critical enough to see Canada's system! according to friends I know in England and people from Canada that are speaking out their health program if critical are waiting in lines. Friends in England could not get help in time for their aged parents. Both needed care they did not get.
Have you really looked into the bill or bits of it. If insurance companies were made clean and in control that would be the route to go. All other countries have failed miserable and if critical they come to America for care immediately to save their lives. Hawaii's plan failed Trying to do the same.
Geo. Bush records has no amount of questions as that of Obama. Obama's are the ones that matter as his agenda is that of a dictator. If you think that I am the only one that thinks on these actions, let me tell you that it is very scary and I mean scary as the people are starting rise up in all areas. The militias are gaining in power and numbers. They are not going to sit down for this and that is what I fear happening as we are told that there will be trouble as never before. I just discovered this today and just letting people see the inner parts that are brewing as fact. I don't especially like putting this out but here is what you can analyze for yourself. Pretty scary stuff to me. I knew that the backbone of America will not give up freedom without a fight. Is it soon, now, tomorrow, or when?? And you realize I am not writing any of the above. Just letting people know the inner details of what some of the public does not pay attention to. I will come back and post a copy of Militia on youtube.
Info to put into search after you get on YOUtube.
Ohio Militia - Freedom fighters or future terrorist ? Go to Youtube and see what outsiders are doing about this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuo2TwF9ug [1]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWpRnrPnj5Y [2
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Also the Bushes stand for "New world Order" of which we are against for America. Like we say that neither side in this day and time Will turn the events that will soon come. Of course unless all repent and be save like Nineveh. Oh how I wish and what a miracle that would be. It just does not appear to be possible as closed minds continually find justification for all evil that is done. Including within our own church.
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Fortunately for all of us there are only a few wackos out there. So now Obama is the Anti- Christ and even though you don't necessarily believe all of it you are passing it off as truth. Tinka, carry on and time will tell.
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You seem to have difficulty adding thoughts and words that just are not there to peoples posts.
You accuse, while I just mentioned what is going on in reality. The reason the polls are going down is because people are waking up. Those posts are what other people put out because they are scared, worried, and starting to rise up. I was just pointing that out as it is scary to me too. I know what the anti-Christ is. Its been on this earth for sometime nowl
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First of all, Christian you are doing a great job, I don't need to say another thing regarding our current First Lady...basically she wears shorts because ......she can! LOL!! So....next......
Those records might not be available for public viewing, but I am sure they were checked and recheck with a fine toothed comb. I have no doubt that there were some chomping at the bit to stop Obama when he was even thinking about running. If they found nothing then.....there is nothing......do you really believe that the republicans would have stayed silent if they had something real to stop him? I don't think so. They are serious about their racism,. They have worked it out form every angle so that it sounds logical and reasonable. Ripthe party to so many shreds, they had no choice but to eleect yet another black man as their chairman......just hilarious!
Health care.........for those of you who are sooooo short sighted......you are ALREADY paying for the uninsured, only by state. Not just for Dr.'s appt. nor preventative procedure, but most often for critical care, because they have no insurance to see a Dr. to maintain the former. Costing the states millions in medical care for those uninsured. No system is perfect, but England neither Canada are looking to abandon their health care systems for ours. theirs and many others work. The Insurance companies are so used to having their way, that they are whining and crying about the change. They ARE the death panels as they make life and death decisions every single day, and deny much needed care to protect their bottom line.
Why aren't christians looking to the early church for their example here? Everyone put in, and nobody went without. Those who had more, gave more. Those who had less, gave less, But ALL got what they needed. I am convinced that it was this sense of community that help the church to grow as it did. This is the example we are supposed to be following. I am realy not understanding the religious right in this. In terms of their politics, they are not at all Christ-like. They adopt and lead in the selfish mindset of the republican party, rather than being the examples within that party and leading them into Christ's unselfish love.
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Actually the press is just not allowed to take pictures of the queen in her shorts. it doesn't mean she doesn't wear them. Diana did, and younger royals do. Times change. And christian is right. They are a HUGE burden on the UK's economy. England hass to maintain at the very least(i believe there are more), two fully staffed homes for the Queen, Windsor and Buckingham Palace....at the country's expense, and they do not rule. They are figure heads...the prime minister is equvalent to the president here in teh US. NOT a good example, Tinka. This point,, tinka is nit picky at the very least, but speaks to the very level of hatred and envy.
fuuunnniiieeee.... :ROFL: What more can you expect for justifications
The person that wrote this was Dem. and did the Laura Bush scenario sort of in anger like you where you read 16. She was replying back to the article. Actually at the end you would see the correct no of Bush is one according if you go into research and find the orginal reports from white house staff or are they lying??.
This Obama staff is milking the system hired by or provided by Obama or Michelle. This is disgusting. As far as the shorts go, all previous first ladies are cultured and refined to not be in public like this when they hold this position. If you want to know class, check out the queen of England and follow suit. Can't you just see Elizabeth prancing around in shorts. She is a refined and cultured lady Queen. Our American office needs the same respect. I will let you find out what mob pants are and I am suprised you do not know. I about did a flip when MO went to the dance in that horrible white bazoon. At least it was funny. Money cannot make her class until she gets it herself. or she needs to hire more staff with better suggestions. That now is my own opinion of her social look along with many others.
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princess di,
You must have fell somewhere and bumped your head. You still do not know what you are talking about and I still cannot believe you teach a Sabbath School with all your liberal ideas but you are in style as a lot of churches now adays are heading that direction
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and as far as MO SHE HAS NOTHING TO LOOK AT BUT TO HIDE AND SHOULD HIDE UNDER WRAP OTHERWISE we would not have seen her defects. She has no posture and slinks from her rib cage down into the balloon, trying to be smaller then Obama, Shows off her basketball shoulders in a white bazoon ball (gown??) and her seat end looks like it is down to her knees from the back in her tight jeans. It takes all of Obama's arm to try to reach from one side to the other as they were boarding the plane. All is seen because she does not dress modest. We all have defects and none perfect so why flaunt it . She really needs to cover up and take an elegant look. Women with no sense should know when they should not wear pants and then you would not notice how far Obama has to reach and can't reach around Michelle Obama. We all get there but why flaunt it. Evidently she don't realize this and seems quite dorkey.
Oh and my comment about Hilliary being masculine, what else would you expect when you can slick your hair back and drink the whiskey down with the men as good as they can at a local pub. I never seen her in a dress yet! Maybe ol Bill had his reasons. But liked his personallity but not his junk plus I admit he has good looks. I would probably trust him more then Hilliary.
We should all be intelligent enough to "know our limitations" while being in view of peoples interests.To tell the truth I would have never noticed if it was not flaunted and lack of proper dress associated with the first lady.
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Boy, is somebody jealous or what? You have real hatred for the beautiful first lady and your president Obama. Face the fact the man won and his wife is beautiful whether you except it or not. As far as the state of her mind, obviously you are a mind reader, I wouldn't know. Also, I hope you dint lead out in sabbath school otherwise we must all go back to the wooden school house. But actually I know you are not a sabbath school teacher because I am sure no one will allow that. Listen to this, Obama is the president and the Bible says you have to give respect and Homage to the Black Kenyan that leads this country and the daughter of a slave Michelle Obama that African Queen it your first lady.
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Do you realize the millions of dollars we pay to executives and the like at the insurance companies?
Do you understand the billions of dollars we pay for executives and share holders of insurance and drug companies.
Do you have any idea of the amount of people that do not have insurance, or adequate coverage?
Do you not realize the thousands a year that are forced into bankruptcy because of catastrophic illnesses or just he inability to pay?
Actually, it's even worse than that, Christian. I was listening to National Public Radio and they were explaining why well-educated, older people (people over 50) can rarely find employment with the major corporations.
Corporations have health insurance plans for their employees and they don't want to add older people to their company plans. Why? It's because corporations subsidize their employees' health insurance payments. Adding older people to the company's group insurance plan increases their health-care insurance premiums more than younger people will.
Therefore, older people, even if well-educated, experienced, and qualified for the jobs, will be brushed aside in favor of younger people who will have fewer health-care issues. This employment problem applies equally to Republicans as well as Democrats -- and with the current health-care system in the U.S.A. there is no escaping it.
I think that if the conservatives of both parties fully understood this problem their objections to making needed changes would be fewer.
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Yes grasshopper your right but the new bill is even worse then that but experience of it if it passes will be the only thing that will let people see that they were deceived.
Oh, and Christian, you haven't detected that all the bad stuff I've written is just to show the likes how the liberal can come off with justification of all wrong doing that all can see. I am not saying a conservative does not do that also but then that is the difference between the wheat and tares.
YOUR president and first lady did not win the election by honest votes. Plain and simple. So however many presidents did this His premeditated community service leadership was being established years ago with total corruption in Acorn (stood out so all could see) on how to get out the black vote by hook or crook. Ya all was fooled with blindness. It takes a devil to do this on a national basis for deceivement. also no where does it say we have to respect the Black Kenyon Queen. Another is.... Judas was also a disciple that Jesus let play out! That is where it is Christian, the evil playing out against the people. I believe this episode has already happened in Biblical days. It is evident you do not know of this. IF you would have read all the SOP, it lets you know how to detect or discern evil in all different forms in stead thinking on a one way track of someone being jealous. The color of president has nothing to do with agenda for a president that is considering not for the people but the taker of all in his own corrupt black heart. Not only is he in corruption with Acorn, also follow through with the organization of Apollo. The corruption is bigger then you can imagine.
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First of all I said Michelle Obama is your African Queen not Kenyan Queen. Secondly I have read the Spirit of Prophecy and that is why I know you have problems. One thing is for sure I find no conspiracy in the man trying to give everyone healthcare. And I have noted the things you have written and they are definitely seated with underlying prejudices. I can imagine that you are probably someone raised in the south. The man has not been in office long enough for you to display such hatred for Him and his wife unless you have some unresolved problems. Go back take a good look at the things you have said about MO and then look in the mirror. You remind me of someone I was talking to in the past and after a long conversation of how they were not prejudice they exclaim how Obama was making it so that no black man would ever be elected again. I then asked him the question, does that mean that no white man should ever be president because of George Bush. I still am waiting for a response but as of yet, I hear nothing but crickets. You are obsessed with Michelle Obama, and rightly so if you cannot match her beauty or wear shorts like Her.
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Listen to this, Obama is the president and the Bible says you have to give respect and Homage to the Black Kenyan that leads this country and the daughter of a slave Michelle Obama that African Queen it your first lady.
Again in case you did not understand or are trying retract what you said in the above sentence. so who would be the black Kenyan that leads if it is not whom we are speaking of. Sorry, but I do not bow and pay homage to such junk as your implying.
Yes, I went to a one room school house (public) until in fact 6th grade. Now be truthful and state whether you took it upon your self to go in and read the socialistic bill that "your majesty" wants for healthcare. It is totally ignorant or people to run their mouth if they do not know what they are yakking about. Go read the bill. Bet your too lazy to and just go by what someone tells you. all you see is color and then call someone jealous. If you were a mature person you would come back with the written facts but you simply can't. I wish it would be different but it is reality we are going down if this goes through. You would have to come up with more facts to prove this bill will not take you down. In case you haven't been following, they pretty much have to come up with something different and even the dems are starting to see the Apollo Dynasty in its workings. What are you going to do when the people rise up and burst his bubble. Seems that is happening. The American people will not be fooled long. His ratings are going steadly down. Ever think why! Let me tell you about hatred. That will be your lot when you finally discover you've been led. People can talk if they have the facts. Like for instance the MO spenditures. She knows to milk it as she will not hold her seat in the next election for sure. Ever track her back ground?? It is just as lax as His. People are sick of this debt from all angles and especially the lying promises that he could not deliever to ya. Hatred ? This is what happened when the government a few years back would not give compensation to all who claimed they were owed for being slaves in their ancestry. This is the Hatred Obama has. What will he do with it?? They will be able to milk it once just watch and see. Oh, your wrong on my origin. I am strickly a yankee woman from high north and the south will not rise again! even tho they like to still carry their rebel flags. now that is hatrid and yet the red necks have now been given energy against their all American views of freedom that I am afraid they will fight to the end. So Obama keep it going!!!!!!
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Let me see how I can get you to understand. First the people are rising up about exactly what? Secondly there are approximately 4 Health bills actually. The bills have to be combined and once combined then and only then will they be voted on. The senate and the congress will have to compromise and come up with one bill. The fact remains that the present condition of medical cannot be maintained so what is your beef? (please) Answer this is it your suggestion that we continue on with the current system of Health Care? What is your suggestion if you were president what would you do? With the current situation in the next 8 years we will have exhausted Medicare and Medicaid and the estimate is that between 60 and 70 million people will not have health care. Please, once again what is your solution to the problem? I will be waiting to hear it.
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I am sorry, I didnt't make myself perfectly clear. Maybe (Tinka) you dont think anything needs to change?
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First of all, Tinka, I show you respect in only responding to your opinions, and not attakcing you personally. So, you need to do the same.
Christian you are correct, these days it is called "drinking haterade". I am afraid Tinka might have at least a 4 year(maybe 8) supply of 2
litre bottles.....poor thing.........Tinka you are in my prayers for that envious spirit that possesses you. It is a shame and a sin in God's eyes to hate one of His children so...............to see His children treating each other badly...........just like any other parent when they see they children treating each other badly.
Now, about this other, Christian, we know that spirit also. It also needs much prayer as it is support by our own SDA church through institutionalized racism in the form of regional conferences.
God does require that we give respect to our leaders, because He allows them to be so. He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, so that means God sets them up and takes them down. Our job is to respect those in the offices thathe ordained. To tell the truth, I started out disrespecting George Bush by call him 'shrub", but someone pulled my coattail about that, I was convicted and stopped. I didn't have to agree with his politics, but God allowed and ordained that GWB be president for 8 years. If I claim to be in relationship with God, then I need to trust and have faith that He does know what He is doing...and He does. I didn't have to trust Bush, just God. I deinfitely need to at least remember that Bush, Obama, Tinka, Christian, Danny, Brandy, Bob Gailon, Little Grasshopper,and every single man and woman on this site and this planet are ALL children of God, and my brothers and sisters in Christ. I need to see them through His eyes, and love them with His Love.
princess di,
You must have fell somewhere and bumped your head. You still do not know what you are talking about and I still cannot believe you teach a Sabbath School with all your liberal ideas but you are in style as a lot of churches now adays are heading that direction
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and as far as MO SHE HAS NOTHING TO LOOK AT BUT TO HIDE AND SHOULD HIDE UNDER WRAP OTHERWISE we would not have seen her defects. She has no posture and slinks from her rib cage down into the balloon, trying to be smaller then Obama, Shows off her basketball shoulders in a white bazoon ball (gown??) and her seat end looks like it is down to her knees from the back in her tight jeans. It takes all of Obama's arm to try to reach from one side to the other as they were boarding the plane. All is seen because she does not dress modest. We all have defects and none perfect so why flaunt it . She really needs to cover up and take an elegant look. Women with no sense should know when they should not wear pants and then you would not notice how far Obama has to reach and can't reach around Michelle Obama. We all get there but why flaunt it. Evidently she don't realize this and seems quite dorkey.
Oh and my comment about Hilliary being masculine, what else would you expect when you can slick your hair back and drink the whiskey down with the men as good as they can at a local pub. I never seen her in a dress yet! Maybe ol Bill had his reasons. But liked his personallity but not his junk plus I admit he has good looks. I would probably trust him more then Hilliary.
We should all be intelligent enough to "know our limitations" while being in view of peoples interests.To tell the truth I would have never noticed if it was not flaunted and lack of proper dress associated with the first lady.
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Let me see how I can get you to understand. First the people are rising up about exactly what? Secondly there are approximately 4 Health bills actually. The bills have to be combined and once combined then and only then will they be voted on. The senate and the congress will have to compromise and come up with one bill. The fact remains that the present condition of medical cannot be maintained so what is your beef? (please) Answer this is it your suggestion that we continue on with the current system of Health Care? What is your suggestion if you were president what would you do? With the current situation in the next 8 years we will have exhausted Medicare and Medicaid and the estimate is that between 60 and 70 million people will not have health care. Please, once again what is your solution to the problem? I will be waiting to hear it.
First of all it seems that all you can come up with is the word "hate". I really do not have that in me except when people have an agenda to take what someone else has worked for or made. I don't look at color but facts and actions.
Huckabee has the right agenda for America. That was our vote. He was a breath of fresh air that the people did not want. The corruption was used again with voters counts in some states. His beliefs are founded in tune with the orginal fathers. (Not kings or queens). He is the one that had the right ideas to make all work together. Huckabee could do it without all the financial payoff of media's favorite that just would not happen because of tagged morman. Now the thing to watch is the connections of Apollo for a right choice next time. Don't be led again by it.
You cannot tax the people to pay for all the big wigs which has been done right before your eyes. Now another trick is the auto $4,500 clunckers that all think they got such a good deal on. It was a way to tax you more on next years payout. Think ya got someting for nothing? Now as some think they will not get taxed as much as the rich guy, think again. You will pay more for gas, food, and control of more of your personal life where you will not have freedom to choose lifestyle, medical, amount of money you can earn, that is why the drs. are heading to the "town hall meetings" time is about up for all us common people that have been taken for a lifetime of work.
It would have all worked in the right mode if a leader did not have to pay the coffers that are in control. Kennedy did not pay so they killed him. a good president for the people. Now with the help along the way from what each president did to head down this road It maybe too late to stop the pain. I believe when good was not chosen "America blew it". We were looking for character that was closest to Christian belief. But then I think Huckabee was too good a man to hand over all "power to the beast".
Shawn Boontra just yesterday, confirmed how all is now more wicked and becoming more wicked then ever before and it is true. A country can not be more then its people, a congregation cannot be more then the pastor, and a family cannot be without a head. I look far beyond anything that resembles color or difference. I watch the steps that are being taken to decieve "mankind "of which we were told would happen.
I have been preparing for a long time for all medicare and ssi to stop and look for hard times coming. Have had 4 gardens this summer and have canned every single day for a fews years if we have them left just in case anyone suffers that I could help from lack of food or funds. It is small but it is something even a drop in the bucket. But do not waste a minute for work to be done. In night I read or do computer to see news and keep abreast of the "signs of time we are living in" in the broadest view of facts. Too bad I cannot tell you the rest of the story!! But just a couple on here do know that I trust.
You might be reminded that Daniel did not pay homage or respect the Kings wishes. So in the end, also what homage will you pay. If it is to man, so be it and so sorry for you.
and Di,
There is no justification for the evil that is about to happen. God will certainly let evil play out as the people chose. Just like when in Biblical days when the people wanted a "king" and God wondered why they wanted one!!!!! simple now isn't it!! They did not want to be their own individual self paying homage to their "Creator". They wanted man to lead them. So they chose a bad one.......... Sorta funny that history keeps going on the same pattern. Then their was Moses that God chose to only organize the people but God was their leader. IF we have to have a president it is on those terms that I try to choose in voting. But for "change" Acorn was created!!!!!
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Listen to this, Obama is the president and the Bible says you have to give respect and Homage to the Black Kenyan that leads this country and the daughter of a slave Michelle Obama that African Queen it your first lady.
Obama is a Kenyan? In the vetting process they didn't arrive at that conclusion. So you are one of the people saying that he is not legally the president? And where do you get the idea that Mrs Obama is African? She was born and raised in the United States of America. She is no more African than Laura Bush is British. Ridiculous!
and as far as MO SHE HAS NOTHING TO LOOK AT BUT TO HIDE AND SHOULD HIDE UNDER WRAP OTHERWISE we would not have seen her defects. She has no posture and slinks from her rib cage down into the balloon, trying to be smaller then Obama, Shows off her basketball shoulders in a white bazoon ball (gown??) and her seat end looks like it is down to her knees from the back in her tight jeans. It takes all of Obama's arm to try to reach from one side to the other as they were boarding the plane. All is seen because she does not dress modest. We all have defects and none perfect so why flaunt it . She really needs to cover up and take an elegant look. Women with no sense should know when they should not wear pants and then you would not notice how far Obama has to reach and can't reach around Michelle Obama. We all get there but why flaunt it. Evidently she don't realize this and seems quite dorkey.
That is also why we have makeup and jewelry. It is there to hide the flaws and detract from them, just as modest dress does. "...cover up and take an elegant look." I know some Adventists who could sure benefit from your statements. They have this notion that there is something wrong with using makeup and jewelry to do exactly what you said. But, I guess they have the right to look however they want to look, even if it looks unbecoming to me, and I guess Mrs Obama can too. Style is a matter of personal opinion. I happen to think that she is someone who looks just fine in shorts, but hey, that may just be because I am a man.
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George (laugh) I suspect your right and figured out that Christian must be a man too. My opinion is strictly from a modest person.
a woman shows she has intelligence when she is totally modest, refined, and cultured with the know how of elegant simplicity. My husband states that is the only way he can determine a good woman to look at. He says the the woman that flaunt it men just get tired of all displayed to everyone knowing they are ignorant and think everyone likes seeing it and knowing that all anatomy is the same. He does not like looking at rolls hanging out the hip huggers and do not understand men that do like for their women to do it.
Woman member showed up at church today again looking just like that. What is so bad is she just had a baby and not back in any kind of shape yet. I don't understand why it is me that is embarrassed for her. I'm not in that shape and am not jealous, just embarrased that the public can see all the outlines, all the creases, and all the rest. Yes there is a problem with dress in the SDA church in most places. I am from the 40's and the 50's and yes my mind set is back then and will never except this way or even pretend that it is even ok with any kind of justification even for the so called first lady.
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Tinka, first of all you are storing up for what? Ellen White would say we should not store up and those that do will find their food eaten by worms. You never answered my question as to what you would do about the medical except that you seem to be waiting for the worst. ---And you being an Adventist would support Huckabee as President when he is not for the separation of church and State. Again, fortunately there are not more like you, you would indeed bring more suffering to people in the name of God.
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Chrintian,
This has been my custom and my mothers all our lives to always have a huge garden to help out anyway at anytime and produce our own food. I am not customed to buy from store. We even had are own chickens and essentials on farm and mostly self sufficient.
I understand fully where you are coming from. I also know that at the end days that saved food will not help. I have read that but until that time we always have a way to help in case of emergency or I always have immediate food ready for company or unexpected visitors. You really have a mind to come up with words not spoken or misunderstood. We have been hit very hard with hard times already in our case and very very thankful to be able to have the gardens at this time. But we always share and have spare no matter what.
Even before the signal to flee I believe we are in for some harder times yet. All industry is shutting down in our town. Being retired and the threat of no SSI or MEdicare just in case I do have prepared food that we can now feel good and in better health as we bought out of stores for last 2 years and not ever used to that change caused stress and not feeling good. That is what we have been thankful for when all other gardens around have been hit with blight. Ours produced all that we needed. In case your interested you might go to the post where there are recipes, I think I put it on Healthy choices. My son in law- was from the big city. He was amazed with our lifestyle and wrote a poem dedicated to me which is typical of our life. Check it out if interested. It will just be titled with the word "garden poem" and sort of forget exatly how I titled it but it will be under Tinka
We clearly are told which religion will cause church and state to come together. Where have you been to not know that. The protestants will also follow them AFTERWARD of which we will not be able to turn it around by that time. It will be put in place at the beginning by the "new world order". and Obama has already stated his case on that issue.
Answering the question of Healthe Care I believe yes all should be able to have that and be able to pay and select them selves, but they can't because the poor are still without much left to do that as they are taxed if not by IRS but high taxed on all essentials that are necessary for instance the high cost of fuel, food, interest and housing and everyday necessities raised prices on elec and heat. But yet they are told they will not be taxed if they only make so much. How funny!
The insurance companys are the ones to be delt with and that is what I think demands "change" not the whole freedom of choice that America is built on. The high cost of living is what creates people not to afford health care.
Huckabee has a plan of "fair tax" which will work and get rid of IRS and then some of Ron Pauls ideas to get rid of the corrupt money system like John Kennedy tried. They killed him. Can't think of the correct words I want to use in place of corrupt money system but it is 1:30 am. Probably will think about it in am. Ron Paul was a too radical in some ways but right on in others. He did not do well in the matches or debates, but another who is misunderstood a lot but has some good ideas and very truthful is Alan Keys.
Years ago, we heard Obama speak at a convention and thought he was quite elegant in speach and marveled how well he spoke. We sort of felt in future he was preparing to run. We were impressed until the more he talked and talked we soon realized all the contradictions and discovered that was just only his talent. Talk, talk, and more talk. He kept us in circles, as we did not miss any canidate and watched all debates. It finally was to the point that all the long drawn talks made no sence other then his pounding of the "change", "change" and that is what people grabbed. We needed change for sure but not this horrfic trauma. I've just been around all this for too long and know we are in bad times. This could be it for the financial fall of America. It sure seems that way in our area.
I have listened very much to Huckabee and so far he has not given any clue or thought or manner of speach that he would "hand over all power to the beast. In fact I saw that he could be very strong against the agressor of America. He is stronger in policy then you think but does it quite Christian like but firm. But we can expect any portestant to do that in time or the daughters of the mother church will follow and that is a given fact.
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I can tell you this that you are completely wrong in my opinion. And what is more amazing about, you people, is that the man has really not had a chance to do anything except what the prior administration has put together. I am not wishing bad times on anyone, my motto has always been pray for peace for mankind at all times.---- I believe the tax situation has been around for eons and yet you seem to imply that Obama is bringing this country down. -----The reason I asked for you to supply a rememdy for Healthcare is I wanted to see whether you were part of a solution or part of the problem.---- I will ask again in hopes that you would answer the question. What is your solution to the Health crisis and what would you do differently about taxes. Solutions are not often as easy as one might think when the problem is put in their laps. I am very pleased that Obama is seeking for a solution to the problems.---And he is right (absolutley) to suggest a government option to health insurance. The reason we are in the situation we are in at this time is because of the insurance companies. Actually, Medicare, Medicade, government run health care, has done 100 times better than private insurance companies. I would like you to name one thing that Obama has done presently that makes you sooooo upset. Please, and I am not talking about the fact that Michelle wore shorts and that other stupid stuff etc...
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I agree that the health care situation is bleak and needs some attention. I also think that nothing good can come of something that massive being quickly put together in a few short months by a few politicians and lawyers trying to push it through immediately and without consideration for the healthy distrust that centuries of experience have taught Americans to have for politicians. The Patriot Act is a case in point. The country was in a crisis, so the president and the rest of the Washington aparatus quickly formulated and pushed through a bill that a year earlier would have been unthinkable. Because there was a crisis, the American people did not require that it be thought through and given time.
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George,
Exactly right. also
Christian, the word I was too tired to think of is do away with the "Federal Reserve" But quite a coincidence that the 4 presidents that did were all killed. Huckabee also agreed, Ron Paul and I think Alan Keys.
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At the time the Patriot Act was being formulated and pushed into law, people who questioned or disagreed with it, in part or in whole, were labeled "un-American", "fringe", "in league with the terrorists" and other epithets that we are hearing now regarding people who question or disagree with the "Health Care bills" being pushed. A new aspect that has been added to this one is race. Many people who voted for Obama are now being called "racist" for disagreeing with him on any point. It seems that a declared crisis with one far-reaching "solution" presented as "the only true solution" is the most effective way to unite people in polarization and create radical groups who will abandon reason in their zeal to follow.
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Interesting, that in a country that is predominately white that racism would be used against that group. I don't think for one moment that the powerful elitist want universal health care for all. It is very hard for people to understand that sometimes people come along that are not part of the system and God ordains that they should be allowed to be in a position of power for His sake. I am in a wait and see with Obama and I don't for one moment think he has been in long enough to tell. I remember listening to this one radio host and Obama had been in a literal week and he was labeling him with things that he could not have had anything thing to do with. Again, I am in a wait and see mode, for me that seems the most logical thing to do at this point. My position is not unique to Obama either, I have took this stand on all the previous Presidents and usually after the first 2 and one half years it is more evident to the direction they are going. Up until then usually they are dealing with the previous Presidents policies. Even though I know it is the end of time, I am convinced that the time of the prophecy "and this Gospel shall be preached into all the world" and then the end shall come. I would doubt very seriously if Obama is part of the conspiracy that is transpiring in this country. I watched the third building fall on 9/11 and I know something is going on.
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Now I do not believe my eyes as I read in a whole different view that people vote unknowling why they voted but will give it a couple of years before they know one way or the other if the president is good or not, These people do not need to vote. But this exactly is what I have been saying. They never voted for character, background, experience in political agendas, this time they voted color. Unbelivable that people would do a trick like that and jepordize America and then set back and find justification for this mess. I just read this article today, again just letting what other people can see and think as this is growing in tremedous bounds.
From: Ron Ewart <r.ewart@comcast.net> [Edit Address Book]
To: Ron Ewart <r.ewart@comcast.net>
Subject: "Getting Even - America Hijacked!"
Date: Aug 30, 2009 7:25 PM
Attachments: BLT jpg.jpg BLT jpg.jpg
"Getting Even - America Hijacked!"
By Ron Ewart, President
National Association of Rural Landowners
and nationally recognized author on freedom and property rights issues
© Copyright August 31, 2009 - All Rights Reserved
It can be said with certainty that every single American living today had absolutely nothing to do with slavery, slave ships, slave trading, or the owning of slaves. It can be said with additional certainty that almost every American living today find slave trading, slave ships, slavery and slave ownership, in any form, abhorrent. It simply is not a part of the American culture to believe in such things, nor is it sanctioned in American law.
Consequently, every single American living today, white or any other color, has absolutely nothing to feel guilty for, when it comes to the injustices that were inflicted on the black race, in America's past and in fact, the whole world's past. We have no obligation to apologize for our ancestors, nor do we have any responsibility for reparation to the victims of these injustices, or to the dismantling of American freedom and liberty to achieve it.
America has gone to great lengths to heal the wounds of those injustices and a huge price, in American dollars and American sweat, blood and tears, has been paid by the American taxpayer and yes, even the American white volunteer, to make amends. Some may believe we have gone way overboard and now have created a special class of Americans (ethnic preferences in schools, colleges and the work place). The hard truth is, Black Americans live better in America than any black-skinned people on the face of this planet, as well they should.
But ariseth from the bowels of a corrupt Chicago, comes a mixed-race community organizer, a savior, a Messiah, the Chosen One, to lift blacks out of poverty and get them the reparations they believe they so richly deserve for past injustices, paid for by the perceived perpetrators of those injustices, white Americans.
Comes now a man who participated in a Chicago church for twenty years that preached "Black Liberation Theology", a theology that believes, with vehemence and much gnashing of teeth, that white America is evil and white America is still trying to keep black Americans in a state of perpetual poverty, if not slavery.
The truth is, way too many black Americans keep themselves in their own self-induced poverty and slavery, by adhering to the false and corrupt concept of Black Liberation Theology and allowing government to convince them that they are victims and only government can referee their grievances, against white America of course. But with refereeing comes the requirement that the so-called "victims" vote for the referees to keep them in office and over 90% of black Americans vote for Democrat/referees. One could ask, who is being manipulated in this scenario?
Many blacks keep themselves in their own chains by accepting filthy rap music as their cultural mantra and gutter-minded, corrupt, black sports figures to be their heroes. It appears that many Blacks have yet to discover that he who seeks the "best" in himself and others, rises to the top, while he who seeks the worst, sinks to the bottom.
Now, black Americans feel empowered. Look at the people this false Messiah from Chicago has added to his cabinet and to the thirty plus Czars he has added as advisors. People like Van Jones (the green Czar), a black American and an avowed, radicalized communist, who will use any amount of public money to create green jobs, even if those green jobs do nothing to increase our Gross Domestic Product, or add any significant benefit to society. And people like Mark Lloyd, (the communication Czar) a black American and a socialist/Marxist who believes that the Hugo Chavez Revolution in Venezuela is something we should emulate. If Lloyd's Czarship has any authority under American law, real or imagined, this man will set out to follow his beliefs to the letter, unless he is shown the door, and soon. Why does Obama tolerate people like this to advise him? It raises serious questions about his leadership, or his not-too-hidden socialist agenda.
There are many groups in America that are inhabited by only members of the black race who seek not only reparation, but retribution. One of those organizations is ACORN and Obama was a dedicated participant in ACORN activities before becoming a U. S. Senator and then President, as were others with whom he has associated. ACORN, an organization that works against the principles of freedom and liberty, is funded by the very government (your money) they wish to transform to their radical perception of equality.
Obama's whole background, from the day he was born, is filled with communists, socialists, Marxists, community activists and others who seek a massive redistribution of American wealth to those who have not found their way to, or have not taken advantage of, unequaled in any country ..... American opportunity.
Blacks feel so empowered today that on August 25th, 2009 at Rep. Jim Moran's (D-VA) Town Hall meeting on Obama Health Care, held at South Lakes High School in Reston, VA, a black, local policeman (or security guard) by the name of Wesley Cheeks, Jr. decided to make his own law, under threat of force, by forcing a protestor, outside the town hall meeting, to take down a protest sign because it had a not-too-flattering picture of HIS president, Barrack Hussein Obama, on it. He threatened the protestor with being charged with trespass if he didn't take the sign down, or any other charge the officer could come up with. When the protestor said this is supposed to be America, the Black Officer fired back: "Not any more it isn't, OK?". So much for the First Amendment under an Obama Black Liberation Oligarchy. Here is the link to the short video that the protestor took of the officer's attempt to squelch his right of free speech:
http://www.youtube.com:80/user/DissentFromDayOne.
Names for Black Americans have gone from the "n" word, to Negroes, to Blacks, to African- Americans. No other race in America has a hyphenated name. To make it equal should we not then have European-Americans, Asian-Americans, Indian-Americans, South and Central America-Americans, Canadian-Americans, Australian-Americans, Russian-Americans, or how about just American-Americans? Of course not, that would be ludicrous.
There is no doubt that the Black race for several thousand years, has suffered greatly at the hands of planet-wide discrimination because the human race is, by its very nature, discriminatory. But then so have fat people, skinny people, ugly people, tall people, short people, diseased people, retarded people, crippled people and a whole host of other people, been discriminated against for the same reason. Those that excel in this world, get over it and rise above it.
History is replete with people who have some malady or another to overcome and in spite of that malady, achieve a goal they have set for themselves. All of life is full of obstacles. If people let obstacles get in their way, they drown in a cesspool of self pity, or blame others for their condition or situation. Perhaps one day, these "victims" will learn that life is tough and it takes courage to live it. Until then, they blame others for their suffering and use the power of government to "lift them up" to their perception of equality, no matter who has to pay, or what principles of liberty they have to violate.
It is clear that Obama and his minion's design to "reform" America, is a reformation that holds little connection to a Constitutional Republic. It's sole purpose is to elevate a single race (black and perhaps Latino Americans) to a position, not equal with all other races, but superior to all other races. Hitler did this to the Germanic people and the result was one of the worst holocausts in all of human history.
The other goal of this black reformation, retribution and reparation, is to rob the public treasury and transfer America's wealth (through exorbitant taxation and unconstitutional legislation) to this now, government-mandated, superior class of Americans. They intend to get even for whatever perceived injustices that have been instituted upon them for the last 5,000 years and they now have the power to do it.
Through this smooth-talking Black president, that belies his real agenda, America has been hijacked by Black Liberation Theology (BLT) and the heralded ministers of BLT intend to reap the rewards of the power they now hold, by using the socialists' methods of the Cloward-Piven and Saul Alinsky community-organizing strategies to achieve it. They may well receive their rewards if freedom-loving Americans, white, black, yellow or red, don't install a permanent and impassable barrier to BLT objectives and install it damn soon.
Ron Ewart, President
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF RURAL LANDOWNERS
P. O. Box 1031, Issaquah, WA 98027
425 222-4742 or 1 800 682-7848
(Fax No. 425 222-4743)
Website: www.narlo.org
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Tinka,
Obviously, everyone, including you vote for individuals that you don't know completely. And even if an individual says something that may not be what they do in the long run. My statement was not intended to imply ignorance but rather to let you know I understand human nature. AGAIN LET ME BE CLEAR AS POSSIBLE, I THINK THE PRESIDENT IS DOING A GOOD JOB. It is interesting that you would imply (not surprising) judging from your previous post that someone voted for Obama based on race alone. Nor have you at any point offered a solution but rather a constant drab of criticism and jealousy.----- No, you are right the people that are here did not do slavery but their parents did and you are still profeting from it. Actually, segregation ended in my lifetime, which means that it has not been that long ago and indeed some alive are and were responsible for that. Some have deep seated prejudices that are not even evedent to themselves and for that reason they are blind to their prejudices. Again, your obsession and congrats to Bush belie your true heart. Tinka, dont let an S added to your name really describe you character, take a deep look at yourself and then you will see others clearly.
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You are right, Christian, that there are some white people who still harbour prejudices as a result of the prejudices held by their parents. There are also black people who see prejudice where there is none as a result of their parents (or themselves, for older people) seeing prejudice in most white people, and they often reflect it back. Between this and the natural racial prejudices that exist in every race, many white and black Americans harbour prejudice against each other.
Another thing that history tells us is that every race and ethnicity has held itself superior to the others and exhibited it through various expressions of prejudice. Prejudice is a part of human nature that exists is every race and ethnicity. One of the earliest advanced civilazations was African. Egypt grew into greatness on the backs of its white slaves. The Ethiopian empire flourished on its black slaves. Almost every person of European descent is progeny of slaves, owned by the nobility. Most people of African descent living outside of Africa descend from people who were enslaved and sold to the white slave traders by black African slavers. Many people of Chinese descent living in the USA are the descendents of slaves. At one time, almost every Central and South American people we held in slavery by another. Recently we saw the horrors of ethinic prejudice in Rwanda. The ethnic cleansings on every front in WWI were epic. During WWII, the German elite enslaved and murdered the Jewish people en masse. The Chinese were notoriously prejudiced against every other culture for millenia, as were the Japanese, who enslaved everyone they could get their hands on not many years ago. The governments of the USA and Canada still segregate the Native American populations in reservations, and into the late 70s were imposing unspeakable pain on them through the "Residential Schools." In short, racial and ethnic prejudice is, and always has been, a dominant factor in every group, and none are exempt or above it, hispanic, black, asian, white, or any other. That is something that only comes on an individual level.
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You are so right prejudice is on both sides,which is a real shame because we are all related to each other. My Grandmother is white and my grandfather is Indian, America is such a melting pot. But I have had a number of experiences that let me know that prejudice is alive and well here. I make it a point and try to make sure that I am not judging a person by the color of their skin but rather by the content of their heart. I have learned though that some catch phrases are used by individuals who are in deed prejudice, some not knowing and some knowing. Remember we are talking about America the here and now and while it is good information to know that others have endured the same prejudices that by no means lessens its effect on the one experiencing it at the time. Again, I relate my experience to the man who said that Obama was destroying the chances of another black man becoming president. But when I asked did that mean that George destroyed the chances of a white man becoming president he gave no answer. Obviously, he was indeed making Obama a justification for his inherent prejudice. In the case of Obama I can definitely see that there are some (though not all) that have deep seated prejudice against him because of the color of his skin. Again on the week after he became President there were those trumpeting his failures when the fact is he has had little time to make a dent in this mess. Tinka, in printing things like blacks listening to rap and the like do not know what they are talking about. Plus they fail to mention the thousands of whites that listen to Rock and Roll (taken from having sex in the back of a car) to acid rock (which I will not describe). They talk about the plight of the black man when in fact they know nothing except their own prejudices.
You are right, Christian, that there are some white people who still harbour prejudices as a result of the prejudices held by their parents. There are also black people who see prejudice where there is none as a result of their parents (or themselves, for older people) seeing prejudice in most white people, and they often reflect it back. Between this and the natural racial prejudices that exist in every race, many white and black Americans harbour prejudice against each other.
Another thing that history tells us is that every race and ethnicity has held itself superior to the others and exhibited it through various expressions of prejudice. Prejudice is a part of human nature that exists is every race and ethnicity. One of the earliest advanced civilizations was African. Egypt grew into greatness on the backs of its white slaves. The Ethiopian empire flourished on its black slaves. Almost every person of European descent is progeny of slaves, owned by the nobility. Most people of African descent living outside of Africa descend from people who were enslaved and sold to the white slave traders by black African slavers. Many people of Chinese descent living in the USA are the descendants of slaves. At one time, almost every Central and South American people we held in slavery by another. Recently we saw the horrors of ethnic prejudice in Rwanda. The ethnic cleansings on every front in WWI were epic. During WWII, the German elite enslaved and murdered the Jewish people en Masses. The Chinese were notoriously prejudiced against every other culture for millennial, as were the Japanese, who enslaved everyone they could get their hands on not many years ago. The governments of the USA and Canada still segregate the Native American populations in reservations, and into the late 70s were imposing unspeakable pain on them through the "Residential Schools." In short, racial and ethnic prejudice is, and always has been, a dominant factor in every group, and none are exempt or above it, hispanic, black, Asian, white, or any other. That is something that only comes on an individual level.
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Your points are valid and taken. I also have heard the remarks directed at President Obama that are without substance, but attack culture and race. I have also heard similar comments directed at President Bush. And no person of any race knows the plight of another when they attack for any reason. They know only their own plight, and their own prejudices. People of every race listen to and perform rap, rock and roll, acid rock, jazz, blues, country, etc. I find that music is a great common denominator that brings people of various races together. At the same time, I think Tinka would agree that music is quite divisive on the generational level. Lol.
While it is true that we are talking about the here and now in America, I find that for myself one of the best ways to avoid sinking into self-pity, anger, bitterness, etc over the pain that others may put me through is to educate myself on what others have gone through, and are going through here and around the world. When I realize that anything I have ever endured is nothing compared to what others have had to live and die with, my focus goes to them, and I am grateful that my troubles are so relatively small. Have you ever faced a mob with machetes and spears hacking your family, children, grandchildren and friends to pieces because of their ethnicity? I know people from Rwanda who did. How can I look myself in the mirror after complaining about prejudice leveled against me, when there are people who have been through so much worse? Yes, prejudice is alive and well here in the USA, as it is in every country on earth. Every race in the America of here and now is guilty of acting in prejudice against the other. Not one can claim innocence or moral high ground. I have seen and experienced it too. But I also know that each of us is fortunate to be experiencing it here and not in parts of the world where it is lethal, as opposed to simply insulting and hurtful.
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What???uuhhh? Don't recall I said anything about Obama with the music or rap. Where did you get that?
You must have me confused with heresay from someone else. Although according to EGW the type of music christians should use to unite all races is soft melodious that affect the heart in the same way. Not to give the beat of each individuals desires in all directions that are not pleasing to God.
Maybe I mentioned somewhere someplace about rap music tried in the church and was very disagreeable with it. But that is a new one to me about Connecting it to Obama. You failed to mention that years ago I wrote we liked Obama, but when he came back to show his stuff we were horrified at the agenda of the man and his eloquent speeches went out the door.
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Tinka,
When you post things without the added benefit of rejecting the views expressed therein you align yourself with said views.You posted Ron Ewart's message as though his thought coincided with yours and he (in talking about black people) talked about there like for rap music. I was simply responding to what you were posting. I have heard his type of ignorant views before, on the state of the black race in which he knows very little. Just as I would not label the white race with they fact that they align themselves with corrupt sports figures or listen to the perverted Rock music. ---- You by posting show a little of your minds eye and what you believe to be true, even though it is just your opinion, though you don't seem to think so. You have yet to express anything outside your venomous distaste of the clothes that Michelle Obama wears and your seeming conspiracy on the Health care issue. Even though the current system cannot be maintained you seem incensed by the fact he and others want to try and fix the problem.
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Christian, If you were president, a senator, or a congressman, would you vote on a sweeping bill that completely changes the face of America is you had not gone over the bill backwards and forwards, cross referenced with healthcare professionals, and studied every detail of it to the point where you were not only conversant on every point in it, but could be considered an authority on it, to the point that you would not have to revert to "talking point" but actually know that you constituency knew and agreed with it? Members of congress are call "Representatives." They are there to represent the majority of their constituency. That is their job. Obama and almost all of the members of congress who are in favour of the healthcare bill produced by Nancy Pelosi are NOT familiar with it, and they admit that! I have no problem with with someone taking the initiative to fix the healthcare mess, but I have a very big problem with it being done in a panic hurry and without time and thoughtful consideration being put into it. Are you not at least a little alarmed when the government ramrods thing through as fast as possible, discouraging debate, alternative plans, or discussion. The speed and secrecy, and the unwillingness to discuss it are red flags to many of us who have studied politics and history.
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George,
I like the spirit of this debate coming from you and you do have some valid points. However, if you look at the way Washington D. C. works you will understand why he is trying to rush the bill. He (Obama) understands that if he can get a bill passed in the senate that the House will be responsible for combining the concerns of each branch of Congress and then it would come out as one complet bill in which the Congress would them vote on. The President understands that in the not to distant past that once the process was stopped and the Republicans gained control of the House and Senate that the debate was completely stiffled and that is the reason we have the current system. He (Obama) understands that between the vote after the congress has drafted a complete bill that there would indeed be time for debate. I can almost guarantee you that if this bill is defeated we will not have universal coverage and the majority of us will suffer in the future (and not to distante future) because of it. It is not as you might think because he is trying to push something down your throats, that is (already) being done. I am sure you understand that the present crisis in healthcare is more serious than many know. And I can tell you from (first) hand experience that there are multitudes of individuals, even unbeknowings to them, who are denied (proper) life altering medical care because of the lack of money. One thing is for sure every person should be provided medical care and it not be based on the bottom line. AGAIN THE REASON FOR THE RUSH IS HE UNDERSTANDS IF YOU DONT DO SOMETHING NOW IT WILL BE TO LATE. Now, what I am trying to stress to you is they the medical industry understands that in the next few years at the present cost advances, that many millions more will indeed be left without medical insurance and will suffer and perhaps die because of it. THE REPUBLICANS, IN CASE YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN, IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS NEVER MADE ANY PROPOSAL REGUARDING HEALTH CARE EXCEPT TO GIVE THE DRUP COMPANIES A MORITORIUM ON GENERIC DRUGS. DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT IT WAS THE REPUBLICANS THAT PAST AN UNFUNDED DRUG BENEFITS PACKEGE THAT ENDED UP GIVNING DRUG COMPANIES IN THIS COUNTRY BILLIONS OF UNFUNDED DOLLARS. Yes, something needs to be done (now) before it is to late, and by the mere fact that the insurance companies are fighting so hard against it lets me know we are going in the right direction. I WILL BET MY LAST DOLLAR THAT IF THE CURRENT MOMENTUM IS STOPPED THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE A CORRECTION OF THE CURRENT TREND AND WE WILL END UP AT THE MERCY OF THE INSURANCE AGENCIES, WHO ALREADY SET POLOCIY FOR YOU WITHOUT YOU HAVING OR CONGRESS ANY SAYSO.
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George,
I want to make myself clear, the insurance companies and drug companies already rewrote the health care policies and you or I had no say so. Again, for years there has been a study of the healthcare system and how to make it better, The Administration is not going into this thing blind. However they know they are working within a small window of opportunity to get this done for the American people. The storms that are being raised against them have nothing to do with wanting to be thourow but rather the insurance companies and drug companies want to keep control. You are fooling yourself if you think that they want to offer you an option for review. You watch and mark my words, if given the opportuinity they will not allow any changes to take place or for there to be universal coverage etc...
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George,
I want to commend you on your very eloquent way of explaining the racism and subjects on this post. I agree. I realize being straight forward and to the point real quick with out much explanation may really give impressions of great bluntness.
All my young life I was not subjected to racism or difference. Therefore when older I did not much understand why we had to have it. I knew history but also realized that is what is was "history"and went into everything with the feeling of all equal and all American as when older and in business and among all.
Now I realize that racism "has to be evidently pounded continually into the cultures growing up". No I did not have that and therefore I tried to relate on here that I have friends that are like me and we have a wonderful relationship and it is a really good feeling. almost like a marriage where the love grows. It is hard for me to understand as you so well put it the racism in the world of which I know is true but also the great tool of the devil. I have a good feeling of which I know how it must be like it is going to be in heaven (smile, if I can just get there).
I just picked up on this Ron Ewert that someone sent me. and was showing how the other side thinks and why possible uprising of the people could possibly happen. and just this early morning I just recieved another e-mail of article of why the Healthcare of Obama will not go down. But on an individual basis these are the points we started to see as facts happening also. Something yes needs to be done with the insurance companies but here is someone else's view.....and why this will not be done with out a fight.
Subject: interesting
Dr. Krauthammer is on Fox News. He is an M.D. and he is paralyzed from the
neck down. Be forewarned on what is happening. A friend went to hear Charles
Krauthammer. He listened with 25 others in closed room. What he says here,
is NOT 2nd-hand, but 1st. You would do well to read and pass this along to
EVERYBODY that loves his country. This is VERY serious for the direction of
our country. The ramifications are staggering for us and our children.
Last Monday was a profound evening, hearing Dr. Charles Krauthammer speaking to
the Center for the American Experiment. He is brilliant intellectual, seasoned and articulate. He is forthright and careful in his analysis, and never resorts to emotions or personal insults. He is NOT a fear monger nor an extremist in his comments and views. He is a fiscal conservative, and has a Pulitzer Prize for writing. He is a frequent contributor to Fox News and writes weekly for the Washington Post. The entire room was held spellbound during his talk. I have shared this with many of you and several have asked me to summarize his comments, as we are living in uncharted waters
economically and internationally.
Even 2 Dems at my table agreed with everything he said! If you feel like forwarding this to those who are open minded and have not drunk the Kool-Aid, feel free. Summary of his comments:
1. Mr. Obama is a very intellectual, charming individual. He is not to be underestimated. He is a cool customer who doesn't show his emotions. It's very hard to know what's behind the mask. Taking down the Clinton dynasty from a political neophyte was an amazing accomplishment. The Clintons still do not understand what hit them. Obama was in the perfect place at the perfect time.
2. Obama has political skills comparable to Reagan and Clinton. He has a way of making you think he's on your side, agreeing with your position, while doing the opposite. Pay no attention to what he SAYS; rather, watch what he DOES!
3. Obama has a ruthless quest for power. He did not come to Washington to
make something out of himself, but rather to change everything, including
dismantling capitalism. He can't be straightforward on his ambitions, as the
public would not go along. He has a heavy hand, and wants to level the playing field with income redistribution and punishment to the achievers of society. He would like to model the USA to Great Britain or Canada .
4. His three main goals are to control ENERGY, PUBLIC EDUCATION, AND
NATIONAL HEALTH CARE by the Federal government. He doesn't care about the
auto or financial services industries, but got them as an early bonus. The cap and trade will add costs to everything and stifle growth. Paying for FREE college education is his goal. Most scary is his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof. The only way to control costs is with massive RATIONING of services, like in Canada . God forbid.
5. He has surrounded himself with mostly far-left academic types. No one around him has ever even run a candy store. But they are going to try and run the auto, financial, banking and other industries. This obviously can't work in the long run. Obama is not a socialist; rather he's a far-left secular progressive bent on nothing short of revolution. He ran as a moderate, but will govern from the hard left. Again, watch what he does,
not what he says.
6. Obama doesn't really see himself as President of the United States , but more as a ruler over the world. He sees himself above it all, trying to orchestrate and coordinate various countries and their agendas. He sees moral equivalency in all cultures. His apology tour in Germany and England was a prime example of how he sees America , as an imperialist nation that has been arrogant, rather than a great noble nation that has at times made errors. This is the first President ever who has chastised our allies and
appeased our enemies!
7. He is now handing out goodies. He hopes that the bill (and pain) will not come due until after he is re-elected in 2012. He would like to blame all problems on Bush from the past, and hopefully his successor in the future. He has a huge ego, and Mr. Krauthammer believes he is a narcissist.
8. Republicans are in the wilderness for a while, but will emerge strong. We're pining for another Reagan, but there will never be another like him. Krauthammer believes Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty and Bobby Jindahl (except for his terrible speech in February) are the future of the party. Newt Gingrich is brilliant, but has baggage. Sarah Palin is sincere and intelligent, but needs to really be seriously boning up on facts and info if
she is to be a serious candidate in the future. We need to return to the party of lower taxes, smaller government, personal responsibility, strong national defense, and state's rights.
9. The current level of spending is irresponsible and outrageous. We are spending trillions that we don't have. This could lead to hyper-inflation, depression or worse. No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity.
The media is giving Obama, Reid and Pelosi a pass because they love their
agenda. But eventually the bill will come due and people will realize the huge bail outs didn't work, nor will the stimulus package.
These were trillion-dollar payoffs to Obama's allies, unions and the Congress to placate the left, so he can get support for #4 above.
10. The election was over in mid-September when Lehman brothers failed, fear
and panic swept in, we had an unpopular President, and the war was grinding on indefinitely without a clear outcome. The people are in pain, and the mantra of change caused people to act emotionally. Any Dem would have won this election; it was surprising it was as close as it was.
11. In 2012, if the unemployment rate is over 10%, Republicans will be swept
back into power. If it's under 8%, the Dems continue to roll. If it's between 8-10%, it will be a dogfight. It will all be about the economy. I hope this gets you really thinking about what's happening in Washington and Congress. There is a left-wing revolution going on, according to Krauthammer, and he encourages us to keep the faith and join the loyal
resistance. The work will be hard, but we're right on most issues and can reclaim our country, before it's far too late.
Do yourself a long term favor, send this to all who will listen to an intelligent assessment of the big picture. All our futures and children's futures depend on our good understanding of what is really going on in DC!!!! And our action pursuant to that understanding! !! It really IS up to each of us to take individual action!!! Start with educating your friends and neighbors!!!
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Tinka,
You make me laugh, Fox network? Again, fortunatly the majority are not like you.
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Fox is better then listening to the lying liberals. At least on Fox you can siphon it out. I still look at what facts are for sure and it is evident you don't. Your way will create the highway of no return!!!! Look at what was meant to be the Plans instructed/ you just don't get it but then how could you.. with your blindness caused by indoctrination of misjustice and should be paid for it. Your quite visible in character. Anything goes character!! or you would be talking on Bibical terms. YOu and I neither one can change it. If it was not wrong you would not be seeing two sides. So it is wrong one way or the other. I will do all that I can on individual basis to help one another but
I WILL NOT BE FORCED BY NATIONAL FORCE TO PAY YOUR HEALTHBILLS WITH OUT FIGHTING FOR OPPOSITE. ONLY WHAT CONSTITUES BY LAW AS WE HAVE IT NOW. TOO BAD BUT I BELIEVE THE SILENT BACKBONE OF AMERICA IS ABOUT TO STAND AGAINST THE FREELOADERS.
DO YOUR OWN WORK AND GIVE WHAT YOU WANT AND WHEN YOU WANT JUST LIKE YOUR SO ACCUSTOMED TOO. MAYBE YOU NEED TO FACE IT FOR THE EXPERICENCE. THEN YOU CAN SEE IF IN A COUPLE OF YEARS AS YOU STATE WHETHER IT IS GOOD OR NOT! :ROFL: TOO LATE THEN AS YOU WONDER WHAT HAPPENED :dunno:
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Tinka,
I guess I touched a nerve with you? Obviously, you just don't get it but my hope is that you will wake up. We, are talking about the main work of God to care for the sick and you just cannot see it because you feel entitled. But when your health is gone and like the man at the pool of Bethesda you long for help then you will see. As for me, yes, I will continue to fight for healthcare for all with the hope that some will be relieved of the physical and financial burden that they have. I have a coworker like you who claims to be Christian also, she is the one that said the Mexican does not deserve Healthcare. I simply told her that she didn't deserve it either. So you continue to listen to Fox network and take your P's and Q's from them, I am sure in the day that God comes back he will tell you well done my faithful servant you succeeded in keeping the undeserving from Healthcare. Now come into my Kingdom and receive liberally from the tree of life because YOU deserve it. There is none so blind as those that cannot see. It is obvious that you have taken up a work that was not design for you to engage in, a cause that God did not call you to.
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Christian, is there any particular news network that you trust? I have noticed that Fox News tends to lean Republican but keeps a smattering of Democrat leaning, and a number of centrist people on board. CNN appears to be the Democrat leaning version of it, and MSNBC very firmly Democrat. Partisanship aside, I don't trust any one news source to be the one and only. I find a cross section of Fox and CNN to be what I look for. In any case, I don't think that anyone can trust the news to be comprehensive and balanced no matter what the source. There are always critical factors that are not put into the sound bites that the consumers are looking for. Ergo, independent research into background and context.
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George,
Actually, I listen as you do, a little bit of each. But, I have found Fox to be one of the most racist networks and way off base. I try to temper all that I watch in the light of what would Jesus do. While it is true that sometimes I miss the mark I find myself much more compassionate when I do that. Interesting enough I find myself trusting in God and not fearful as some appear to be with the gains of others. I don't think myself entitle while considering others less than myself. I realize there is enough money and wealth in this country to releave a great deal of the suffering not only here but abroad. I served for six years in the military and had the fortunate opportunity to travel all around the world. Let me tell you what I learned, people are people all over the world. I realized very quickly that many of them are more worthy than myself, but their lot is to be born without the opportunities I have had, no fault of theirs.
We (not only the United States) spend billions defending ourselves with weapons capable of destroying entire nations and the citizens hardly whimper about that. Yet when it comes to the fundamental rights of human beings and showing compassion on them, then the heart is shown what it really is like. I am not suggesting that the nation should not defend itself but do we really need the ability to destroy the world 10 times over? Billions and billions are spent for war and the destruction of mankind. The Christian should more than any understand that God is in control and his or her business should be about relieving human suffering.
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You go by the handle of Christian :ROFL:
:ROFL: The devil has great compasion too! FOR HIMSELF.
You were in the military and don't know why you were there?
America in the past is free because of the Military enforcing freedom for the people and chosen by the people! So we don't live by the way of Europe and the other countries that you so well were able to see. Was that America's fault? No, that is why God porvided us a new land and gave insight to the forefathers for the rules!
But you are in the mode of that way of life of Europe, Communism, Socialism, ...sneaking in the back door of America. All in the name of compasion, sympathy.
I posted articles on here to show the division of coming destruction in the worst time of trouble. It's brewing! Did you think the right side would win in this day and time? They will lose as the evil takes over all. The end!! Your sympaties are for the devil and his slithering in quitely unnoticed by total control of the people. It is like the green people. They know that "who controls the land controls the people". so the farmer is destroyed. The green people are only one finger of the head and agenda of Obama! Listen to the scripts of words of people that he has in his cabinet. You cannot call those words lies. Your desired life is in Europe. Go back and stay there. Your co worker was in the right mode. Not you Sabastian so fight on. The Red Necks are a comin' with what is left of American standards. I am refering to some of the links that were in a couple of articles but nine out of 10 you did not venture to go there. It shows em preparing. It may be that "Healthcare will be no longer the issue. But - - - - will.
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[don'tconvience you. This country was based on freedom of religion and for that reason God blessed and protected it. But more than anything know why you are there" :dunno: "You go by the handle of Christian ??? I find it difficult to decifer exactly what you are talking about. America is free because of (GOD) not its military enforcing freedom. I know will find that hard to believe and I dont quote author=tinka link=topic=1714.msg21162#msg21162 date=1251876327]I "You were in the military and have the time to individuals like you have perverted what this country was based upon. Not only that but you mark compassion too, while at the same time calling yourself a Christian. Honestly your type scare me not because you are evil but because you call yourself good when in fact you are selfish and evil. Everything God gives us is undeserving but you are the type that think you earn it because of the color of your skin or by virtue of where you have been born. For you the words "for God so loved the world" fall empty because they do not fit your agenda of an elite country. The call to evangalize the entire world for you is a enigma and impossibility because you believe the lie that you deserve all you have. Even Christ himself is only there for your interpretation and you constantly see evil in anything that you do not understand. You see the coming destuction instead of the words of scripture that say war and rumors of wars, yet you totally miss "and this gospel of the kingdome shall be spread in all the earth and then the end shall come." Your compassion is dead and your love for all humanity has even limited Gods love. You are desolate trying to plant seeds for physical nurishment while all the time your have lost spiritual nurishment. Do you not know that a vast majority of the ancestors of this nation came from prisons and were seeking for a better life. Yet you and the ilk of your type still preach your messages of hate. But in the end it is you who will suffer and it is you that shall eat your words. And then the poor and the less fortunate will be in the hands of Jesus while you will be in the hands of your God Satan and man. You go by the handle of Christian :ROFL:
:ROFL: The devil has great compasion too! FOR HIMSELF.
You were in the military and don't know why you were there?
America in the past is free because of the Military enforcing freedom for the people and chosen by the people! So we don't live by the way of Europe and the other countries that you so well were able to see. Was that America's fault? No, that is why God porvided us a new land and gave insight to the forefathers for the rules!
But you are in the mode of that way of life of Europe, Communism, Socialism, ...sneaking in the back door of America. All in the name of compasion, sympathy.
I posted articles on here to show the division of coming destruction in the worst time of trouble. It's brewing! Did you think the right side would win in this day and time? They will lose as the evil takes over all. The end!! Your sympaties are for the devil and his slithering in quitely unnoticed by total control of the people. It is like the green people. They know that "who controls the land controls the people". so the farmer is destroyed. The green people are only one finger of the head and agenda of Obama! Listen to the scripts of words of people that he has in his cabinet. You cannot call those words lies. Your desired life is in Europe. Go back and stay there. Your co worker was in the right mode. Not you Sabastian so fight on. The Red Necks are a comin' with what is left of American standards. I am refering to some of the links that were in a couple of articles but nine out of 10 you did not venture to go there. It shows em preparing. It may be that "Healthcare will be no longer the issue. But - - - - will.
[/quote]
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Wow,
You really got a problem! mentally, religiously and race. You just can't put things in right sequence or even read what posts are saying correctly. You need help.
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Wow,
You really got a problem! mentally, religiously and race. You just can't put things in right sequence or even read what posts are saying correctly. You need help.
LOL, That is exactly what i have been thinking about you I just didn't want to say it. I only get one thing from your post that is Michelle Obama is prettier than you and you are jealous. Any true christian would not be so upset about someone trying to help others.
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My day in the sun was more then anyone should have. I was taught to be refind and modest. I never ever had to be jealous of anything. Yet that seems quite important to you. Oh, by the way you may read an article by Doug Batchelor that just got today. OBAMA AND THE POPE......... YOU NEED TO WRITE HIM YOUR VENUM AND TELL HIM WHERE HE IS ALL WRONG. READ EACH WORD CLOSE AND UNDERSTAND. ONE SENTENCE WRAPS IT ALL UP.
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It appears that Obama intends to continue pursuing healthcare reform legislation this Fall, but without the public option. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26672.html Christian, I understand what you were saying about the reasons why The President and his party are not able to take their time in thought and research on this matter. The more that the American people see of the proposed legislation the stronger their opposition to it grows. If they don't enact something very quickly it will not happen because next year the citizens are likely to change the balance of power in Washington in order to stop it, much as they did in 1994. This nation being a representative republic, the people expect to be represented by their representatives. Were this a theocracy like Iran, then religious feelings could take precedence and we would have a facist form of government in which the theologians tell the people what is best for them and legislate it regardless of what the people want. Each person's ideas of what God wants and likes are different and equally valid to them, as is evidenced in your debate with Tinka. Her value system demands a level of modesty for women that is common among many Adventists of older generations. That is as valid to her as caring for the indigent is to you. You dismiss her concern as base jealousy, and she seems to view yours as ignorant idealism. I am sure that you both believe with equal fervor that God is in full agreement with you, and in utter disagreement with the other. This exemplifies one of the reasons why I am glad to be living under a secular government that does not recognize individual religious values as being fundamental to legislative action. Religious and social fervor do not have to rely upon reason, but on feeling. Consequently both are equally dangerous when given the teeth of governing power.
Although I agree that we could do more, and perhaps there is an imbalance in spending, it remains a fact that the USA, through public and private sources, gives more to domestic and global humanitarian and benevolent causes than any other country on earth. We are certainly not behind anyone else in terms of giving.
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THANK YOU GEORGE FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
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It appears that Obama intends to continue pursuing healthcare reform legislation this Fall, but without the public option. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26672.html Christian, I understand what you were saying about the reasons why The President and his party are not able to take their time in thought and research on this matter. The more that the American people see of the proposed legislation the stronger their opposition to it grows. If they don't enact something very quickly it will not happen because next year the citizens are likely to change the balance of power in Washington in order to stop it, much as they did in 1994. This nation being a representative republic, the people expect to be represented by their representatives. Were this a theocracy like Iran, then religious feelings could take precedence and we would have a facist form of government in which the theologians tell the people what is best for them and legislate it regardless of what the people want. Each person's ideas of what God wants and likes are different and equally valid to them, as is evidenced in your debate with Tinka. Her value system demands a level of modesty for women that is common among many Adventists of older generations. That is as valid to her as caring for the indigent is to you. You dismiss her concern as base jealousy, and she seems to view yours as ignorant idealism. I am sure that you both believe with equal fervor that God is in full agreement with you, and in utter disagreement with the other. This exemplifies one of the reasons why I am glad to be living under a secular government that does not recognize individual religious values as being fundamental to legislative action. Religious and social fervor do not have to rely upon reason, but on feeling. Consequently both are equally dangerous when given the teeth of governing power.
Although I agree that we could do more, and perhaps there is an imbalance in spending, it remains a fact that the USA, through public and private sources, gives more to domestic and global humanitarian and benevolent causes than any other country on earth. We are certainly not behind anyone else in terms of giving.
Thanks for your response. However I never said that that Obama and those drafting a health care overhaul did not take time or thought, those are your words. I have maintained that since 1994 until the present that (which is definitely enough time) healthcare debate has been stiffled. I beg to differ with you on the statement that the more American people are hearing about health proposals the stronger their opposition gets to it. Rather what I see is a campaign by the drug and insurance companies with misinformation, scaring the people into the belief that they will lose what they have. By the way, if you are a student of history you full well know that the majority of major legislation has a small window to get pass, precisely because of the opposition that arises with their self serving interest.
Instead of a Democracy this country was formed as a republic and a constitution which was written to protect the rights of all people, even the minority. We have a legislative process in which I am thankful for, however it is not always a fail safe and because of that segregation, the women's right to vote, child labor and many other types of legislation had to be written even thoughthe majority did not necessarily agree. The President is elected to uphold the constitution and along with congress enact laws that will benefit all people.
Maybe you are not aware of the 46 or so million that do not have medical coverage and are at risk. Outside our duty as citizens, as Christians, would not we want to take care of all people? Yes, this country gives a lot, I don't think anywhere in my post I ever said they didn't. But this country also uses the majority of the worlds resources, and where much is given much is required.
Your right to state your (opinion) is granted because we are in a free country, but it is only your opinion. You contrast myself and Tinka's stand as to imply whether intentional or not that I somehow don't espouse modesty. I would just admonish you that all you said is your opinion, as we all have one.
And let me tell you one last thing, if I thought for one moment Tinka's concern was just about modesty I would be on the band wagon. However it is my honest opinion that that is not the root of the problem with her. Go back and look at her first post, they exhibit jealousy.
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One tracks are so obnoxious. They must eat :horse: meat if someone tells them to. Sounds like you have been born on wrong side of tracks of :usa: Sebastian :ROFL:
There is a name for people that do not know how the heartland lives AND WORKS. They are called "City Slickers" as they only know and think this agenda in the mode of complete ignorance of a college professor that indoctrinate the youth in schools of worldly liberalism to their destruction. That is how Communism slithers into the back door. You are of that generation and "Behold" the last generation many WILL be lost' with much saddness and dismay.
You are what the older "generation" calls justifiers of their sinful agendas. Your too blind to see but your favorite kindergarden word is "jealousy".
Being, blonde (now silver), blue eyed, 126 lbs 5'5" 36 22 34 why would I be jealous of having a flamboyant hulk of a caboose! Get smart or use your head! You have no idea what I looked like to be "jealous" other then your imaturity and failed education!
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:amen: :amen: :amen: :amen:
I can tell you this that you are completely wrong in my opinion. And what is more amazing about, you people, is that the man has really not had a chance to do anything except what the prior administration has put together. I am not wishing bad times on anyone, my motto has always been pray for peace for mankind at all times.---- I believe the tax situation has been around for eons and yet you seem to imply that Obama is bringing this country down. -----The reason I asked for you to supply a rememdy for Healthcare is I wanted to see whether you were part of a solution or part of the problem.---- I will ask again in hopes that you would answer the question. What is your solution to the Health crisis and what would you do differently about taxes. Solutions are not often as easy as one might think when the problem is put in their laps. I am very pleased that Obama is seeking for a solution to the problems.---And he is right (absolutley) to suggest a government option to health insurance. The reason we are in the situation we are in at this time is because of the insurance companies. Actually, Medicare, Medicade, government run health care, has done 100 times better than private insurance companies. I would like you to name one thing that Obama has done presently that makes you sooooo upset. Please, and I am not talking about the fact that Michelle wore shorts and that other stupid stuff etc...
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Princessdi,
I mentioned several times before. I suggest the thing that would work is the "Fair tax" that was offered by other candidates. This way people would have the choice of what tax they wanted to pay with what purchases they felt they could handle. This beyond doubt would give the common poor people their fair earned dollar without the government taking and have more money to live as more equal for their living, medical and easier and less stressful. They can the manage their own life much better then the government then this horrific plan that is in store for us if we do not stand up to it. This would take away the IRS like we know it today. This is what Huckabee, Ron Paul, Alan Keys ran for their ticket. They are for the people. There was no need for this fiasco we are going through now. This is straight confusion for the people and if I would put a No. of one of the bills on here you would not believe the confusion of what they are saying in them that leave the people in complete dismay of what could happen to them. It is quite hard to understand and then I go to my husband and ask "am I reading this right and he says Yes. I just can't believe what is being done to deceive the people. I remember long ago just being taxed on purchases.
You are right about one thing, Obama is at the top but he also selected the czars that are directing him as it is his agenda too. Some have communism background with communistic agendas and you cannot call that a lie. You cannot undue the scripts of tv with their faces and voices doing all there vulgarness. Why do you think everyone on these tea parties are up in arms. Just for info and to show how and what is happening I put links for people to observe the militias taking form faster then anyone can think. Its going in leaps and bounds. It is scary, It's the whole picture. Not just the wearing of shorts. I have just been enjoying the debate on here while time is going by to see the justice come into view on the DS saga of which I believe will happen as time gives up the truth.
Believe it or not there are people fighting for people united under the banner of Americans whether you think so or not! I believe all races are Americans as they fight side by side in defence of our individual rights to choose, and to give...if and when we want. Believe this too as George said in above post. The Americans gave more with their souls, money and hearts. They fought the same, they died the same and I will give the same for this freedom how ever I have to and that is what you are now seeing the people stand up too. There are too many Europeans in this country that know the directions and roads much better and are now Americans and are standing on front lines as you watch and hear there cultural background of language. They know, I know, our uncles and dads of many in this family fought world war 2 with a man that had wrong agenda's with pathes not too much different. Beings we are so close to sample end time events. We better take heed and fight for liberty as long as we can as we are told.
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Lol! Yesterday evening a man who does not support the current healthcare reform plans lost his pinky finger when an "Obamacare" supporter bit it off at a moveon.org rally. The man promptly went to the hospital and availed himself of healthcare. I would imagine the biter probably hurried home to brush his teeth and ponder peace, love, and care for the physical wellbeing of everyone except people who disagree with him.
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Here is the problem with allowing others to "choose" what they want to pay for taxes.....historically, those who really should pay the most......try their hardest to get out of paying them at all. The "haves" going along way in finding loopholes while the have nots end up paying a consderable amount of their income to taxes.....for lack of loopholes.........Just make sure everyone pays their fair share is all. As I said, we, as christians, can use the model of the first church. Those who had a lot gave a lot, those who had a llittle gave a little, but ALL got what they needed. I am not sure why we are willing to buy into big business' hype that it is bad to charge them their fair share of taxes on the money the make in profits from the American people.
I also like to add my thanks to George for the Chist like manner in which he presents his posts. Iam a firm believer that we can disagree without being disagreeable. I am sorry that I am late to the last few days of this discussion.
My thoughts of racism and prejudice.........first some defintitions........we can all be prejudice, and only those in authority can practice racism. Example: I can hate another Child of God all I want because of the ethnicity, however, for me to exert racism requires that is be in authority of them and deny them any portion of their rights simply on the basis of that ethnicity. Now this leads to my next comment......
Which is equality. Yes, Tinka, there are programs and laws in place that help those who were initial denied the right to housing, employment, etc. Now we would like to think that they are no longer needed, but truth is, they are. the firestorm around the fact, from some, that Obama is even President in the first place is an indication that we have not yet arrived. The US spent the better portion of it's history not only denying the rights of women and ethnic groups, but treating them as property and/or less than human. We cannot then just stop, or seem to stop and expect them to acheive the same as those who were......favored........the entire time. They start out behind, because of the US racist actions, that needs to be corrected. Not a hand out, but something that does level the playing field. Most people I know, don't mind working for their living, but we also want to be assured that we will get fair housing, educational and employment opportunities. We are not quite there yet. It's getting better, but we are not there yet. I don't know what it was take for the SDA church to abolish instituationalize segregation...only God knows......maybe they never will.
Now, to be completely honest, I have experience precious little direct racial discrimination in my life. I was raised upper middle class family, and in my high school years lived in a suburban home down the street from former Raider's coach and NFL commentator John Madden, and form NFL player Gene Upshaw. I have never lived in "the inner city", well I live closest to it now, but I was not raised there. I live in California, which is under the Pacific Union of SDAs and we don't have regional conference. However, I am not blind. I could be like some who assume that becuase it doesn't happen to them, it is not happening. Or I could be someone along the lines of the natives who helped the slavers, and the slaves who betrayed other slaves to the masters, OR like some African Americans today who are just decidely blind, but I am not. There is racial discrimination here in America, and it was not so long ago that it was every bit as bad as that in Rowanda. Remember, the hangings, beatings, bombings known and still unkown. Have you forgtten about 4 little girls who died worshiping in a House of God? The man, who's name escapes me at ths moment, who wa not only beaten but drug behind a pickup truck until he was unrecognizable? We are not that far from that. Barak Obama was the first president candidate to get secret service ageents due to death threats.....just for running..........in 2007.......we are not that far from Rowanda. Our GC President calls institutionalized racism, better known as Regional Conferences, cultural diversity............we are not that far from Rowanda......at all. If some, even some posting on this site, would have their way, we would be Rowanda.
Oh and about healthcare...once again, we are already covering these same people state by state, only when they get critical. If this doesn't pass, then your state taxes will continue to pay for the uninsured. What's the issue? That you would rather the money come from your state taxes then your federal? That is the only real choice here. Nobody is unfamiliar with anything at this point, this is not a new fight, just one that keeps getting put aside. It is just a simple case of the insurance companies having amonopoly ALL of this time and liking it. It doesn't take make for them to convince some Americans that busting up their monpoly is a bad thing...after all, remember, we have that entire group who are dedicated to survival of the fittest...I got mine,you get yours. The real possiblity of another option,makes them have to do something different other than that which they are doing now. They don't want to change. Death panels? They make decisions each and every minute of the day to deny crucial treatment to their paying members.
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Princess,
The very last statement of your post is the one that seems to be missed the most by those defenders of the status quo. The fact is that the insurance companies are making life and death decisions for people all the time. Not to mention the drug companies who charge Americans twice the amount of other nations.
And I can still not understand why in the world a Christian would take up a fight, knowing that 46 million people do not have health insurance, for the insurance companies and drug companies. They continue to say statements like Obama is trying to change 1/4 of the domestic spending, when in fact the insurance and drug companies are the ones that have done it with very little oversight for the last 40 years since Nixon.
Perhaps the reason that I am so upset is because the same individuals who report to be so upset with Obama were no where to be found when we invaded Iraq under false pretense. Many of them during that time supported the invasion because we were delivering the people of Iraq and giving them a better life. Yet when something so clear and documented as the lack of health care for many poor and out of work people they rise up like it is the end of the world. They still do not say why they are so upset, honestly, ask Princess and then listen to their answer. They say they don't want the public option because they don't want government controlling health care. Yet Medicade and medicare are the primary suppliers of health care to the elderly and it is government run. I can tell you it is the insurance companies that want to keep the prophit margin that are driving this debate.
But I can say without apology that some of it is driven by prejudice against a black man as president.
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Yes, I remember seeing, reading and watching the horribleness of this you speak of. Those are the times I am for the death penalty. beyond any doubt. Honestly, I cannot stand human suffering. I actually get sick. My oldest daughter is the RN and is much tougher then I. Even when we approach a car accident my whole chest almost instantly caves in with much trauma for someone hurting or in danger. My daughter was the strong when any of our family was hurt. I know I got through it but I am that way for a stranger. I came upon a scene where I was the only one where a mother and 10 year old was in accident and the boy ejected through the windsheild with his face severed everywhere and eye lids hanging. I held his face together until someone came. I spent 2 weeks in hospital after that. I did what I had to do but my weak part crumpled. So I visualize much when things are graphic and so terrible to happen as like the man being drug. I did not have a christian thought at that time. Now likewise I also would be a very reluctantly protector also if I had to. Guns and all, But I finally gave mine to my oldest grandaughter. As a kid some of my dates were going to the dump and learning to sharp shoot the rats. (laugh). So I wanted the death penalty for the rat that did what they did. Maybe this is all too personal to put on here. But I state my true self.
I understand where you are coming from but I do not think you might understand the fair tax mostly. If rich people have more money they will buy more and therefore will pay more tax. I want more then any thing for all to be able to keep the money they work for at what work they want instead of giving payday to the IRS. Then there is more money for housing, food, insurance, schooling and being able to be equal on those terms. The government taking the money even from the poor now on this craziness of being taxed to to the hilt with now more coming on is what brings the poor to "whats the use" their work is sub and no chance out. Then when people have pride in work and no they will have the money, it will expand into big business and then it's on a roll again. It is the government doing this under the guise of organizations that take their cut first and tax em to get it back. I do think the elderly, mentally impaired, crippled or incompentent people should have the help. But this education thing is also a way for students to become indebted to the government under high interest and it is not fair either. IF you have time or the interest go to some of these other plans and follow it out that other canadates have. The fair tax is the best route for all to have a fair chance at living and the rest will go away. Maybe, (smile) because God has his Plans that will play out too. With farms gone not everyone can work at McDonald's. or be a doctor etc.etc.
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I have to agree, christian, in part......remember, the same people, or type of people killed Pres. Clinton's try at improving helathcare also, so I have to also say it is definitely political, and pretty much that the republican party is that survival of the fittest type org.
Now the other comments, are defintiey deeply rooted in racial prejudice, from the fact that Obama is about to bring on the end of the work US, time of trouble.,et.c to Michelle's fashion choices. The Obamas, if nothing else are an intelligent, beautiful black couple who love their children and each other upholding every one of those family values the republicans were yelling about for the past 20 years, and they won't even give them that much credit.
Princess,
The very last statement of your post is the one that seems to be missed the most by those defenders of the status quo. The fact is that the insurance companies are making life and death decisions for people all the time. Not to mention the drug companies who charge Americans twice the amount of other nations.
And I can still not understand why in the world a Christian would take up a fight, knowing that 46 million people do not have health insurance, for the insurance companies and drug companies. They continue to say statements like Obama is trying to change 1/4 of the domestic spending, when in fact the insurance and drug companies are the ones that have done it with very little oversight for the last 40 years since Nixon.
Perhaps the reason that I am so upset is because the same individuals who report to be so upset with Obama were no where to be found when we invaded Iraq under false pretense. Many of them during that time supported the invasion because we were delivering the people of Iraq and giving them a better life. Yet when something so clear and documented as the lack of health care for many poor and out of work people they rise up like it is the end of the world. They still do not say why they are so upset, honestly, ask Princess and then listen to their answer. They say they don't want the public option because they don't want government controlling health care. Yet Medicade and medicare are the primary suppliers of health care to the elderly and it is government run. I can tell you it is the insurance companies that want to keep the prophit margin that are driving this debate.
But I can say without apology that some of it is driven by prejudice against a black man as president.
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Problem with that reasoning, Tinka, is that there are rich people currently and always, and it just doesn't work that way. They are always spending because they always have it to spend, and we are still in the situation that we find ourselves now. Don't believe the hype.
It is the same with big business. We were told that if we gave them consessions, and lowered their taxes, deregulated, etc. that the money would "trickle down". Well, it didn't trickle anywhere, but flooded over to India, Bangladesh, etc. when those big companies took our concessions and tax breaks, laid off hundrends of thousands of American workers and turned to out sourcing.
I understand where you are coming from but I do not think you might understand the fair tax mostly. If rich people have more money they will buy more and therefore will pay more tax. I want more then any thing for all to be able to keep the money they work for at what work they want instead of giving payday to the IRS. Then there is more money for housing, food, insurance, schooling and being able to be equal on those terms. The government taking the money even from the poor now on this craziness of being taxed to to the hilt with now more coming on is what brings the poor to "whats the use" their work is sub and no chance out. Then when people have pride in work and no they will have the money, it will expand into big business and then it's on a roll again. It is the government doing this under the guise of organizations that take their cut first and tax em to get it back. I do think the elderly, mentally impaired, crippled or incompentent people should have the help. But this education thing is also a way for students to become indebted to the government under high interest and it is not fair either. IF you have time or the interest go to some of these other plans and follow it out that other canadates have. The fair tax is the best route for all to have a fair chance at living and the rest will go away. Maybe, (smile) because God has his Plans that will play out too. With farms gone not everyone can work at McDonald's. or be a doctor etc.etc.
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So what is worse now! No business! Everything going down everywhere! It will get worse. It is because there was not a fair tax system for all these years. The big government are the rich as they pat the backs of who help put them there. There is no other way or reasoning except for those facts. Even the poor are taxed if not to IRS on everything that is essential for everyday living. This is the worst it has ever been and we will see even worse to come. GWB may have had his attention on the saftey and this got a way from him but still he should not have let this go..
Now the stage has been set for the biggie! The whole country is in turmoil. and who is spending when there is no money to spend. It might be a free trip for a few months but all will pay in the end or collapse the rest of the way.
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What would make a poor person think that a rich person would want to spread the wealth around when getting rich means hording? I can tell you from experience that in the poorer countries the rich make a point to keep the poor, poor.
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Princess! It is a pleasure to have you here!
I appreciate your well thought out post. You point out an interesting distinction between prejudice and racism. I had always defined racism as racial prejudice. I will agree that on a very small scale actions like those in Rwanda take place here in the USA, and that in times past on a larger scale. On the other hand, we have not ever had a slaughter in the USA on the scale of what happened in Rwanda since our own civil war. I well remember the dragging incident from Texas, the little girls, and there are many such incidences that we don't hear about on the national news. Some hispanic boys who were beaten and killed, a white family who were attacked and beaten, an Arab boy... the list goes on. All here in the USA and in the last couple of years, attacked because of their race, and by people who didn't even know them. History shows us that every race is inherently racist and acts in violence against those of other races. It is also possible for people to live together. I have a multi-racial family. I have black, white, and hispanic siblings. We grew up together and are brothers and sisters who love each other. As kids there were a few knock down drag outs where someone who denigrated one of us for our race was taken down by all of us. We have had to deal with racism out of black, white, and hispanic, it is tiresome, and we don't tolerate implications that any race is inherently better or worse in any way. We are all driven by human nature and fundamentally none of us have the moral high ground based on race.
(Sigh) it seems that someone will always want to take our money away from us, big business, government... and each claims to be the better steward. Well, they have both proven too many times that they are terrible stewards of our money!
Yes, time has not erased what some people still living experienced, and it will likely take several more generations for the superior attitudes to further disipate. The election of a black president is a remarkable testament to how much a nation can change in just a few generations. As you point out, it wasn't that long ago that segregation, lynching, and other such things were taking place. I am wary of Obama, largely because he has indicated a desire for the government to take more control of the lives of the people. Obama has done nothing significantly good or bad yet, so time will tell, but ambitious politicians can be dangerous, and they worry me. In my opinion G. W. Bush goes down as one of the biggest presidential villians in American history because of the Patriot Act.
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Real good family values uuhhh,
Beer drinking out in the back yard of White House in front of cameras showing America just how good they are, chain smoking, no respect for the office they hold. Even if others have done it, you never saw it. He is arrogant. you've got to be kidding!! His children have been shown how to act "like they are royalty" ever notice how staged!! If they want to act like it then take the blue jeans off and put on a dress and get a little class. They can't help it though as their mother knows no difference. They dress in the public eye in "fad" fashion. Whats worse is you Obama Idol'ers don't even notice or realize it.
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George,
Read Tinka last post and tell me what you think? She even aligns the children now.
And while I am at it the person who got his finger bitten off, was against Government Health care, good thing he could go to the hospital and use his medicare, MAN!
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What would make a poor person think that a rich person would want to spread the wealth around when getting rich means hording? I can tell you from experience that in the poorer countries the rich make a point to keep the poor, poor.
Now, I do not believe my eyes of such a simple question that answers the whole big debate!! Amazing
2 ANSWERS THE POOR PERSON KNOWS THE RICH MAN DOES NOT WANT TO SHARE THE WEALTH BY FORCE, SO OBAMA IS GOING TO FORCE IT. AND THAT LEADS TO THE NEXT ANSWER
The answer to all. Is..........CONTROL, CONTROL THE PEOPLE AND CONTROL THE LAND. But this agenda is for the rich only that the poor got sucked out of and they just could not figure it out.
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Tinka,
Explain to me why drinking wine in a glass is different from drinking beer? Did you know that the queen drinks? OH, I am sorry old time values, she drinks in a dress. Oh, wine and a cigar like they smoke, is a little more refind.
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Real good family values uuhhh,
Beer drinking out in the back yard of White House in front of cameras showing America just how good they are, chain smoking, no respect for the office they hold. Even if others have done it, you never saw it. He is arrogant. you've got to be kidding!! His children have been shown how to act "like they are royalty" ever notice how staged!! If they want to act like it then take the blue jeans off and put on a dress and get a little class. They can't help it though as their mother knows no difference. They dress in the public eye in "fad" fashion. Whats worse is you Obama Idol'ers don't even notice or realize it.
I don't think most people really care if Obama drinks beer and smokes, if a couple of kids wear jeans, and if their mom wears shorts. That makes them normal Americans. "Family values" is a broader term than "Adventist values." The styles worn by the Queen are conservative but nice. When she started wearing those very styles they were trendy and scandalous to some of the aristocracy. Too modern, too fifties. By the Georgian standards held dear to many of the older generations in her earlier years, she was outrageous in her dresses that actually showed her legs. In short, the liberal thoughts and styles of today are the conservative holdouts of tomorrow. And I have to agree with Christian on the matter of wine. I appreciate the lack of pretentiousness that America brings out in people. On the other hand, there is a modicum of class expected in heads of state, but here in the USA that tends to be only in certain venues. As Christian mentioned I am just stating opinions, but thats what I enjoy about this discussion. We are all doing that.
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George,
Read Tinka last post and tell me what you think? She even aligns the children now.
And while I am at it the person who got his finger bitten off, was against Government Health care, good thing he could go to the hospital and use his medicare, MAN!
LOL!!! I had to howl laughing over that one. The guy who was against healthcare had to go use it as a result of the guy who is filled with compassion biting his finger off. Too funny!
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George,
Read Tinka last post and tell me what you think? She even aligns the children now.
And while I am at it the person who got his finger bitten off, was against Government Health care, good thing he could go to the hospital and use his medicare, MAN!
LOL!!! I had to howl laughing over that one. The guy who was against healthcare had to go use it as a result of the guy who is filled with compassion biting his finger off. Too funny!
That really is funny we do live in a very very funny world. I guess God reallllly has to love us that he would die for us. George, why is it so hard to be mean to you? LOL, I dont seem to have such a hard time being mean to Tinka, LOL
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Tinka,
Explain to me why drinking wine in a glass is different from drinking beer? Did you know that the queen drinks? OH, I am sorry old time values, she drinks in a dress. Oh, wine and a cigar like they smoke, is a little more refind.
I am the one that brought out the habits the queen done in seclusion. I was only bringing out her manner of dress not her acts. There government is no good either or being a so called queen. Did you know that the Bushes are the cousins?
That showing of the legs was also addressed by EGW. But George, now a days there is no where to do with any future of the clothes of style because the only thing left is no clothes.
there is no difference alcohol is alcohol, fermentation is still rotten stuff.
Family values does not just come from Adventist values but from all christians that value their childrens lives and believe in good habits and their children's welfare, Inteligent people know what alcohol does, Intelligent people just do not do the smoking and drinking praying to be good examples for their children. I will say again I was shocked at the queen doing it. But more then I really want to mention -- Adventist still drink the wine. They justify it. for health , society, and what ever floats their boat. I just can't see riding the fence. Either you do it or you don't in the Christian walk.
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Tinka,
Explain to me why drinking wine in a glass is different from drinking beer? Did you know that the queen drinks? OH, I am sorry old time values, she drinks in a dress. Oh, wine and a cigar like they smoke, is a little more refind.
I am the one that brought out the habits the queen done in seclusion. I was only bringing out her manner of dress not her acts. There government is no good either or being a so called queen. Did you know that the Bushes are the cousins?
That showing of the legs was also addressed by EGW. But George, now a days there is no where to do with any future of the clothes of style because the only thing left is no clothes.
there is no difference alcohol is alcohol, fermentation is still rotten stuff.
Family values does not just come from Adventist values but from all christians that value their childrens lives and believe in good habits and their children's welfare, Inteligent people know what alcohol does, Intelligent people just do not do the smoking and drinking praying to be good examples for their children. I will say again I was shocked at the queen doing it. But more then I really want to mention -- Adventist still drink the wine. They justify it. for health , society, and what ever floats their boat. I just can't see riding the fence. Either you do it or you don't in the Christian walk.
I believe in modesty too, I have two daughters and I always preached that (modesty) even though they now wear what they want. One of my daughters is a nurse and the other is a Harvard Grad Lawyer. My son graduates this year with the hope of becoming a military chapland. All of my Children are Seventhday Adventist and still attend church. Both of my daughter attended Adventist Institutions of higher learning.
Some Adventst need to drink a little wine for their infirmities sake. Tinka, a little wine would probably do you well, couldn't hurt, might even clear your thinking. As far as Ellen White goes I doubt very seriously if you dress like she did, or maybe you do? In any case I do not see the Obamas as out there when it comes to dress, what I see is a younger couple. Obama, is not a Seventhday Adventist and I can't see judging him as though he is one. He, I am sure, has never read the Great Controversy or Desire of Ages etc... I can not judge him on the same standards that I have for Adventist that should know differently. Most of the prodestant churches allow you to drink in moderation.
But there in no wrath like a holy sanctified Adventist wrath, especially when they are not looking at themselves first. Instead of kindness and gentleness they exibit the emotions of jeaousy and hatred backed up by a thus sayeth EGW.
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Tinka reminds of a number of people who I know well. Although she and I are worlds apart in a number of areas I can understand her and like her.
I am guessing that you and I also have quite a few things in common. I was never in the service, but I have lived and travelled abroad much of my life, and I have a very multi-cultural family that spans the globe. Believe it or not, I am the liberal scounderel of the family. I don't hold to party lines though. At this point I can't support either party as I find too many chasms that are just too big for me to see supporting. The biggest hurdle I have with both of them is their hunger for more power and control of people. They both find the points that resonate with people and then lead them by the nose with them while accomodating the areas of big business that they support and who support them. And they BOTH have them.
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Well I agree with that George but that is why I sort of leaned to Huckabee because I felt he was a down homer and would work for the people better then the rest. McCain straddles, Mitt was buying his way and too rich to understand but seemed good in business but not the small dude, Ron Paul had many good plans but leaned too far the other way. Alan Keys we would have voted for but he was not a canadate in the end. He has vision somewhat like Huckabee but people would not listen because the media did not allow it. Juliani had baggage but capable and powerful with no messing around. Then there was those that were hiding the involvements in the big money deals that could not even debate. I do not know all the ins and outs of all but I do Know the American way. But before we vote they better have the right background that is clear. Obama has orginated the community service of Acorn corruption for many years in prepration for this feat and now the connections of Apollo plus all the other discrepencies.
Well I had to laugh and can't repeat but on some of the militia links I discovered it seemed their main target was going to be ol "Barney" over the money. Now I brought out that name so I would not say the other that they said. They feel there are too many Barneys in Washington.
It's all a mess George and i agree.
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Well I agree with that George but that is why I sort of leaned to Huckabee because I felt he was a down homer and would work for the people better then the rest. McCain straddles, Mitt was buying his way and too rich to understand but seemed good in business but not the small dude, Ron Paul had many good plans but leaned too far the other way. Alan Keys we would have voted for but he was not a canadate in the end. He has vision somewhat like Huckabee but people would not listen because the media did not allow it. Juliani had baggage but capable and powerful with no messing around. Then there was those that were hiding the involvements in the big money deals that could not even debate. I do not know all the ins and outs of all but I do Know the American way. But before we vote they better have the right background that is clear. Obama has orginated the community service of Acorn corruption for many years in prepration for this feat and now the connections of Apollo plus all the other discrepencies.
Well I had to laugh and can't repeat but on some of the militia links I discovered it seemed their main target was going to be ol "Barney" over the money. Now I brought out that name so I would not say the other that they said. They feel there are too many Barneys in Washington.
It's all a mess George and i agree.
No, it is not a mess, it was a mess when G. W. Bush was in there but I at least see a glimmer of hope. Again the Bible would say "but the end is not yet for this gospel shall be preached..." and then.
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:ROFL: It sure ain't going to get preached by Adventist wine bibblers!! You said it all and showed your mental sickness. Guess all children would be Adventist under your directions. Yes you have screwed up ideas that are a mess and your whole agenda. The Catholics are good wine bibblers.
too and Obama visited the pope and just got his copy of the "rules" while all the world grieved Michael Jackson. All these great family values will come to an end as you seen and will see. This is why the church seems to crumble taking in people that make their own rules same as Obama is trying to do. You need to get on the side of DS and help them out. Your good at it. Your as blind as DS thinking the money was meant for him and his extravaganza living. Ask him, if you side with him he might share his wealth......
Hey Princess, you agree with all this wine bibbling too??
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The thing is, George, that President Obama has not done anything that was not already set in place by the outgoing GWB administration is order to counter the free fall of late 2008. We had to save the banks, the automotive industry and some big business. Mainly for the reason you state. neither party has been great stewarts of the people's money. We allowed those businesses to become so ingrained on our society, that for them to fall would mean the utter destruction of the US financial system. That should not have been. Had McCain won, he would have done the same thing....President Bush started the process before leaving office.....the government had to step in or things would have been much worse. I think we all know that. So far, I don't fear that President Obama will be slow about extracting government from Wall Street ASAP.
One more point, is that we also know that most of these businesses brought this destruction upon us and themselves. I really dont' believe it out of order for The President to ask them to get some act right.
Princess! It is a pleasure to have you here!
Yes, time has not erased what some people still living experienced, and it will likely take several more generations for the superior attitudes to further disipate. The election of a black president is a remarkable testament to how much a nation can change in just a few generations. As you point out, it wasn't that long ago that segregation, lynching, and other such things were taking place. I am wary of Obama, largely because he has indicated a desire for the government to take more control of the lives of the people. Obama has done nothing significantly good or bad yet, so time will tell, but ambitious politicians can be dangerous, and they worry me. In my opinion G. W. Bush goes down as one of the biggest presidential villians in American history because of the Patriot Act.
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Keep talking, Tinka...very soon you will reveal all. To love his wife and family, he doesn't have to uphold your religious beliefs.....in fact our own end time doctrines depends on the fact that he(and any other US President) doesn't. Remember, separation of church and state. When that division breaks down completely, then all of those beasts, persecution, Sunday Blue laws enforced, right? Sometimes, we have to sit back and actually think through our reasonings to their logical conclusion.
Tinka, so far your arguments are quite petty. The man has faults, he drank a beer, and can't seem to kick the smoking habit....uinder enormous strees I might add. You don't like the First Lady's fashion choices.........sounds more like high school. And now, Tinka, their children also....sigh...... I say it sounds, because I realize it to be a cover for even deeper issues....actually one in particular. One day, if you are sincere, God will reveal your own heart to you. Again depending on your sincerity, you will repent and turn away from the sin that you find there.
Real good family values uuhhh,
Beer drinking out in the back yard of White House in front of cameras showing America just how good they are, chain smoking, no respect for the office they hold. Even if others have done it, you never saw it. He is arrogant. you've got to be kidding!! His children have been shown how to act "like they are royalty" ever notice how staged!! If they want to act like it then take the blue jeans off and put on a dress and get a little class. They can't help it though as their mother knows no difference. They dress in the public eye in "fad" fashion. Whats worse is you Obama Idol'ers don't even notice or realize it.
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The thing is, George, that President Obama has not done anything that was not already set in place by the outgoing GWB administration is order to counter the free fall of late 2008. We had to save the banks, the automotive industry and some big business. Mainly for the reason you state. neither party has been great stewarts of the people's money. We allowed those businesses to become so ingrained on our society, that for them to fall would mean the utter destruction of the US financial system. That should not have been. Had McCain won, he would have done the same thing....President Bush started the process before leaving office.....the government had to step in or things would have been much worse. I think we all know that. So far, I don't fear that President Obama will be slow about extracting government from Wall Street ASAP.
One more point, is that we also know that most of these businesses brought this destruction upon us and themselves. I really dont' believe it out of order for The President to ask them to get some act right.
I agree. As I said, Obama has done nothing significantly good or bad yet. Like all of them he says things that sound good, but he is first and foremost a politician and I don't trust him any more than I trust any other politician. On the Wall St issue, the robber barons have to be stopped. As you say, so far Obama has only continued what Bush started, which is nothing more than an expensive bandaid that has failed. I will be interested to see how Obama plans to deal with them.
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George, Obama did,however, address those bonuses and made one CEO step down, and at least talks about giving tax breaks and concessisions to those who don't outsource, hire American, and not bite the hand that feeds them. President Bush did just give them the money needed. It took an ABC news report for his adminstration to even notice that the car manufacturers came to beg for money in private jets, one each, not even carpooling in one jet. I believe the financial part is necessary, but somebody has to at least address the issue that brought us to point.
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This is so funny, somebody drinks kool-aid. The banks had to be so bailed out they all splurged on multimillion dollar vacations. You are so far behind on the power behind the political mess and can only see the trickles of cover ups. IF GWB was the cause then who milks it now? Michelle O needs to come down on her spending but of course she may be the mouth behind the man. 100% sure of that! Why is it not better but worse. I am so anxious for time to pass now to bring out this lying fiasco.
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The bonuses are a very minor thing in my opinion. Tax breaks and concessions would be a very positive step. A policy from the Bush era that I would like to see Obama continue is that of dealing harshly with the robber barons like ENRON and the various Ponzi thieves. But I would also like to see the same level of enforcement used to crush politicians and government officials who intentionally misuse tax dollars for personal purposes, and make examples of them.
I was disgusted at the outrage shown by congress over the matter of private jets. Again, a small matter that has no bearing on the fundamental issues. They could have jetpooled on that one trip in order to make it look good, but that does not address the real problems, that is only a visual news bite. Furthermore, Pelosi exhibited hypocracy when asking for extra private jets for congress that would be paid for by our tax dollars, and she did this after the upset over the car manufacturers. And the folks in Washington DC are flying all over the world in private jets all the time. If Obama is going to clean up big business, I'd like to see him deal with the biggest and dirtiest business of them all: the Federal Government.
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I beg to differ, George. I believe the way the travelled to beg for money goes exactly to the point. You are going broke, but you just used Lord knows how much jet fueled to get to DC. It goes to their state of mind, actually. I think it was Tinka speaking of President Obama's arrogance, how arrogant were they? It is the same point you are making that government be first to cut the fat and excess. What are they willing to give up so their companies don't fail? what excesse are the lawmakers in Washington willing to give up so the US doesn't fail. A good start is all unnecessary private jet trips ceased.
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Jets are a distraction. So they get rid the jets or don't use them when they go to Washington, big deal. That doesn't solve the problem, but its one of those visual things that make people think something was done. But I agree, its hypocritical and arriving hat in hand surrounded by displays of wealth was plain stupid, except that they probably thought that the pot wouldn't cuss the kettle, lol. And the Washington lawmakers who are particularly vocal about global warming and environmental issues, like Pelosi, Boxer and Gore, display to us just how insincere they are about those causes every time they board a private jet.
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I see the jets as more of a symptom. An eample of how bad it had gotten, that they didn't even think twice about using them. Therefore, yes we agree. So that they are never, ever that thoughtless again, we need to fix the real issues. As I said, The Senate did not think anything of it at all, it was a news broadcast and the outrage of the people that even brought it to their attention. It was an important "symptom" to the people as to their state of mind.
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If Obama is going to clean up big business, I'd like to see him deal with the biggest and dirtiest business of them all: the Federal Government.
Yes, Yes, Yes, but he can't he just made it bigger with the czars. You ought to see their paychecks.....
After the Federal Government is cleaned up then let him take down the Federal Reserve.....Giddy up go :horse:
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It is evident that there are some interested in trying to place on Obama their own failures. They look at any person in his administration and then try label their likes positions or political stance as the presidents. Now that would be okay if the people named were in a position where they could influence Government Polocies etc... but that is not the case. In every administration there are (always) individuals who differ from the Presidents position on certain topics, thus it was in the Bush and previous President administrations.
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Christian, are you referring to a post?
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If Obama is going to clean up big business, I'd like to see him deal with the biggest and dirtiest business of them all: the Federal Government.
Yes, Yes, Yes, but he can't he just made it bigger with the czars. You ought to see their paychecks.....
After the Federal Government is cleaned up then let him take down the Federal Reserve.....Giddy up go :horse:
Additional layers of beaurocracy. Btw, why are they called "czar" the Russian for "Caesar" and a title taken by the Russian monarchy. The German monarchy called themselves "Kaiser" which meant the same thing. But why are beaurocratic underlings being called Caesar? And why the Russian word for it? Just curious.
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Ok! Anyone want to comment on Van Jones? I will. A horrific, racist individual who has made so many statements that should disqualify a person from any public office that there is absolutely no way a vetting committee could have missed them unless it was utterly inane or completely failed to do its job. Why would the president even consider such a fringe extremist for a powerful policy making job in the administration?
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Van Jones is a very good man, I don't see what the problem is?
I figured I would post that because somepeople want to lump everyone in the same boat. Obviously, the man has no business being in any position of the White House with those views. Which brings me back to an important thought, we need to realize that there are blacks and white etc... that do not condone racism of anykind. I don't think they did a good job venting him and this is the result. However, it kinda reminds me of John McCain who I like taking Sara Palin, who has some (in my opinion) far out thinking.
It also reminds me of the people who say that blacks voted for Obama because he was black. I can tell you that there were millions of blacks that did not want Jesse Jackson to win the presidential race and he was black. Why is it so hard for blacks and whites to realize that he vast majority of individuals black and white simply want to be treated fair and have the opportunity to raise there families in a secure environment. George, obviously if we are Christians we don't condone racism of anykind no matter who it comes from.
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True, I don't think McCain's vetting committe did a very good job either, but then Palin had never made the extremist kinds of comments and with the frequency that Van Jones has. A simple google search would have shown that. Oh well. I'm guessing that Obama had no idea or he wouldn't have done it. Especially after the furor that rose over his pastor. No president wants an extremist of any kind in their administration. All it does is detract from day to day work. But then that is all assumption. The president will hopefully disavow the views so forcefully spoken by Van Jones by asking for his resignation.
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George, I appreciate your level headed response. I did not want to comment on him to much without looking up what his job was. He was responsible for helping direct the country towards green technology. Interesting enough even a republican woman had previously sang his praises. He is not responsible for setting the Presidents policies, he is only a low level administrator. However, that does not detract from the fact that someone should have signaled a red flag. I cannot believe that the President would be stupid enough to put him out there knowing the comments he has made. So I must speculate that he somehow slipped through the cracks. You will get no sympathy from me based on the color of his skin. No matter who it is we as (Americans) need to stand up against the extremes from any ethnic groups.
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Ok! Anyone want to comment on Van Jones? I will. A horrific, racist individual who has made so many statements that should disqualify a person from any public office that there is absolutely no way a vetting committee could have missed them unless it was utterly inane or completely failed to do its job. Why would the president even consider such a fringe extremist for a powerful policy making job in the administration?
Boy you got that right! Now he was called one of Obama's czars. So evil and yet so nice looking.
Lets discuss czars. It is a Russian name because in Russia, the people in control are not elected years gone by. It is the Russian way and there name for it.
Here is what is happening. Obama's czars that are chosen by Obama-- are not elected officials and do not have to be passed by Congress or anything or anybody. They are just extra baggage that Obama is appointing himself to do all these jobs that a president usually does himself. You know like Queenie is having done. This is the Russian way and now Obama is tagged for it. More milking the system for his buddies that are all into the agenda of power.
You know if you listened to Horawitz he says that at no time has there ever been a liberal that has been in it for the people but the power of it.
This is just a drop what is happening. Next week we will hear what is behind the educational theator, I think starting tues. they will give the background and follow through step by step on Fox.
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Van Jones turned in his resignation, but refused to apologize for his statements, only that they offended anyone. It remains for Obama to repudiate Jones. If he doesn't there are alot of Americans who will wonder. Until the election made it an issue, he had the racist Wright as his spiritual leader, and until the press made it an issue he had the racist Jones in a leadership position in the administration.
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Van Jones turned in his resignation, but refused to apologize for his statements, only that they offended anyone. It remains for Obama to repudiate Jones. If he doesn't there are alot of Americans who will wonder. Until the election made it an issue, he had the racist Wright as his spiritual leader, and until the press made it an issue he had the racist Jones in a leadership position in the administration.
I doubt that Obama will try and repudiate Jones. I also think it would be a mistake to do so (repudiate Jones). And I would like for you to quote for me the racist statement that Wright made. I don't think that most Americans will wonder if Obama is a racist, only those who will find a reason to doubt no matter what. His mother is white for crying out loud, so I don't suspect that he would be prejudice. That is of course if he hates his own mother or his grandmother who are both white. Again, my research found Jones being praised by a number of people for his work with Green Technology, many or the people praising him being white. It is not surprising to me that perhaps Obama missed it, I am sure he does not know every black guy. I am modifying this post after more research. Besides the taped statements on school shooting which is very inflammatory. I think his stance on 9/11 and other extremest statements are what brought him down not racist statements.
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These documents are now for public view. The documents were on this e-mail to view but cannot get them to show up here after copied. Probably if you click on His name it will come up. These e-mails come on news items. I do not sign up for them. But what if true???
A Free Press
For A Free People
Founded 1997 Monday, September 7, 2009 Morning Edition
FREE News Alerts
BORN IN THE USA?
Court document swears Kenyan birth cert legit
Owner risks perjury in high-profile case to insist Barack Obama born in Africa
Posted: September 06, 2009
7:20 pm Eastern
By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
With a scheduled hearing date Tuesday, Lucas Smith, the man who tried to sell an alleged Barack Obama Kenyan birth certificate on eBay, has filed court papers in a high-profile eligibility case insisting – under threat of perjury – that the Obama birth certificate in his possession is the genuine article.
The document above is alleged by Lucas Smith to be Barack Obama's original, authentic birth certificate from Kenya.
Smith filed his affidavit through California attorney Orly Taitz, who has spearheaded several lawsuits challenging Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as president, as part of a case that includes as plaintiff former presidential candidate Alan Keyes.
Taitz posted on her blog Smith's declaration, which claims he obtained the alleged birth certificate from Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya, and insists it's real.
"The true and correct photocopy of the birth certificate obtained is attached to this affidavit as Exhibit A," the declaration reads. "I declare, certify, verify, state and affirm under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing statements of fact and descriptions of circumstances and events are true and correct."
Want to know for certain where Obama was born? Demand the truth by joining the petition campaign to make President Obama reveal his long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate!
Smith's affidavit, which includes a copy of the certificate, has been filed with Judge David Carter of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California. Carter is scheduled to preside over a hearing on the case on Sept. 8.
Taitz told WND she believes the swiftly approaching court date prompted Smith into action:
"He has been in touch with me for quite a while, and he emailed me the document with his signature," Taitz said. "I think he was trying to figure out the most expedient way to bring his message public, and maybe he felt that because I have a hearing coming, that would be the most expedient way."
Taitz hopes the court will order expedited discovery, a ruling that would open many of Obama's currently sealed documents, including his college records and Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, to court scrutiny.
"We'll see what happens on Tuesday. If Judge Carter has the guts, we may move very fast," Taitz told WND. "If expedited discovery is ordered, I'll be dashing to Occidental College and then be on a flight to Hawaii."
(Story continues below
In his filing, Smith declares that he traveled to Kenya in February and paid off a military officer in order to obtain a copy of the birth certificate from Coast General Hospital in Mombasa. The declaration also states that the hospital administrator signed and sealed the copy, which indicates Obama's birth in Africa on Aug. 4, 1961, at 7:24 p.m.
As WND reported, Smith released a video of the document he claims is a copy of Obama's hospital birth record, though an investigation by Jerome Corsi maintains the document is a forgery.
WND first reported earlier this year when Lucas Smith, a former resident of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and known by the eBay handle "colmado_naranja," claimed to have a document proving Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya.
After promising to reveal the document to WND, Smith then dropped communications with a team of people offering to help him verify the document, only fueling the belief the sale – and therefore the alleged document – was a scam.
WND followed Smith's ongoing saga as "colmado_naranja" as he attempted several times to sell the document, or photos and stories surrounding it, on eBay, only to have the auctions repeatedly removed by site administrators.
WND also launched an investigation into "colmado_naranja," which led through several online aliases and reported collaborators, including Dawnella Wilson, "InspectorSmith" and, eventually, Lucas Smith.
Smith, whose background includes a lengthy criminal record and a reported attempt to sell his kidney to a man in need of organ transplant, nonetheless insists that his motives are above board, even if his past looks dubious.
"I do have a background. I've made mistakes in my life," Smith told WND in an e-mail. "It took a guy like me to go and get tangible proof about Obama. I don't mind breaking a few laws or policies here and there. I don't mind paying the military in foreign countries to look the other way ... The military [in Africa] will grant you access to anything for just a few dollars. People are starving. So yes, it takes a guy like me to get things done once in a while."
An enhanced version of the Smith YouTube video has been published by Repubx.com, permitting a more legible examination of the document.
WND has also determined that a supposed Kenyan birth certificate previously released by attorney Orly Taitz is also a forgery.
WND has reported on an authentic 1961-era Kenyan birth certificate, which looks distinctly different from the document Smith released in the video.
Authentic 1961-era Kenyan birth certificate obtained by WND
WND has reported on dozens of legal challenges to Obama's status as a "natural born citizen." The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."
Some of the lawsuits question whether he was actually born in Hawaii, as he insists. If he was born out of the country, Obama's American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.
Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.
Complicating the situation is Obama's decision to spend sums estimated in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid releasing a state birth certificate that would put to rest the questions.
WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.
Because of the dearth of information about Obama's eligibility, WND founder Joseph Farah has launched a campaign to raise contributions to post billboards asking a simple question: "Where's the birth certificate?"
"Where's The Birth Certificate?" billboard at the Mandalay Bay resort on the Las Vegas Strip
The campaign followed a petition that has collected more than 450,000 signatures demanding proof of his eligibility, the availability of yard signs raising the question and the production of permanent, detachable magnetic bumper stickers asking the question.
The "certification of live birth" posted online and widely touted as "Obama's birth certificate" does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same "short-form" document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true "long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny.
Oddly, though congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a "natural born citizen," no controlling legal authority ever sought to verify Obama's claim to a Hawaiian birth.
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Tinka,
I am on my way to Kenya this December do you want me to check for his birthdate at that time? LOL, I guess you want us to believe what? That when Obama was born he knew he would be president and so he falsified his birth at that time? There are two news papers listing his birth in Hawaii at the time of his birth, they were conspiring back then. The State of Hawaii has verified him as a natural born citizen as required by law, are they lying too? That they are lying but your man is telling the truth?
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Sabastian,
You really should read the posts and understand what is being implied in the outside world. This did not come from me. I merely put on here what outsiders are printing and doing to show how the trend of division of government into disaster that is growing in leaps and bounds I do not see anywhere on this post that should have gave you an idea that I wrote or said any of this let alone believe it. I did say "what if that could be true. You are really good at adding your own misinformations. It is so easy to see why and how it is you that is led into thinking that Socialism is ok "spread the wealth is ok and you voted for it, in fact with all your post and other comments to others I have wondered if you learned English in our American schools.
Your clear off the wall as bad as a nonsense joke. Wonder if you could comment on why cherry pies hang off ceilings????
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What a weekend! Mr Jones resigned and then the hullabaloo about the school talk started. These school talks are political hay! In 1991 Bush made a speech in a school and the Democrats launched a congressional investigation and held hearings over it. Lol! The height of foolishness. At least this one was just local and media flaps. Now that its over we have tomorrow's speech to the joint session. By the weekend, sales of headache medications will be spiking. I recommend buying stock in whoever makes Tylenol, Motrin and Excedrin. Aha! Maybe this whole healthcare reform thing was put together by the pharmaceutical companies and the president just trying to drive up those stocks! Quick! Someone find out how much stock he owns in them! Lol!
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George,
They just don't want to except that he is President, they will do anything to try and bring the man down. There are two sides to this story, tinka's side, which she thinks the sky is falling, and my side. I believe the President to be an honest man trying to get things done but there is a element of society that does not want to except defeat. The hoopla over the school thing was triggered because there are those who want to exaggerate everything he does. Plus, there are those that are looking to label the President this and that. But my prediction is that in the end the man will rise up and make a liar out of them all. Actually I am very proud of Him, and yes I voted for him and would do it again.
Yet despite all the man is President ordained by God to be there, him and his lovely wife and children. No need for Tylenol, Excedrin, Anacin etc... The only people that need those things are those that are afraid and fearfull. Obama is president and the thing I like about him most is his steadiness in the face of criticism.
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There are more than two sides to this. Every president has the people who think he is the best thing ever (you in this case), and people who think he is the worst thing to ever hit DC (Tinka.) Then there are people like me who look at each president as just another president. He is different than the others in a few minor ways, but fundamentally each one is not much different than the other. They are all politicians, all capable of saying things that make people tingle, all just one part of a much larger government system in which the president is a single figurehead who is tied by congress, the judiciary, and the most important part of all: the people. They may have some power, but fortunately it is very limited. Although each of them has done more to give the office a little more power.
I have noticed that the extremes of this one seem to have these factors. On the hate-him side they seem to think that he is going to bring in communism, socialism, dictatorship, sell out the country to the UN, he isn't an American, he is a friend to the terrorists, and he has no financial sense. On the love-him side they think he will bring equality to all Americans (and non-Americans), make the rich poorer and the poor richer, give the disposessed possesion, make the whole world love us, save the environment, save the economy, cause all white racists to become frustrated, and bring peace.
In the end I think all of the above will be sorely disappointed when they find out that he is just another president. The people who hate him have nothing much to hang on him at this point because he has done nothing. Yes, a few rotten appointees, but thats all. The bailouts are just a hold-over from the last administration so that cant be blamed on him. The only thing that anyone has done is attack his ideology, and that is just based on interpretation and looking into the glass ball. On the other hand, I find it really sad that his fans have only one consistent defense, and that is that anyone who differs with him does so because he is black. That is pathetic and weak. it is the defense of people who have no substance at all. Yes, there are a tiny minority of people for whom his race is the major negative issue. But there are a number of people who see every white person and every successful or wealthy person (regardless of colour) as the enemy just because of the colour of their skin or the thickness of their wallet, so they try to make this presidency all about race. The vast majority of us don't care anything about his skin colour, what we care about is how he and his administration will affect our personal lives and personal finances. We know that the two houses of congress are just as important as the administration, and they will have more effect on us than the president will. Obama doesn't concern me anywhere near as much as Pelosi et al.
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George,
You made me laugh when you said I think he is the best thing ever, I as of yet have not compared him to anyone as to make that statement. What I have said is I think he is doing his best and for that I am proud. You are right though he hasn't done much of anything yet, his leagacy is just beginning. I disagree with you on the small minority thing of those that hate him because of his color. I believe there is a substaintial amount of people that hate for that reason alone. You yourself stated that he has not done very much so what do you attribute the furior over? As with most people they may try and hide their inner feeling and in some cases they are not even aware of it. Example: The man that told me that Obama is making it so no black man will ever be elected again, by the way that statement was echoed by at least 3 other individuals in the chat room. They saw nothing wrong with the statement partically because they could not understand there own feelings. In Texas the furior in the school about Obama addressing the Children but this same school has scheduled their school to go to a Bush speaking, and I can go on and on. I ask myself, self? if Obama was a white man would there be this uproar over speaking to the children (self answered) no. Ephasis provided for laughter only.
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I disagree with you on the small minority thing of those that hate him because of his color. (How immaturely stupid ) I believe there is a substantial amount of people (you should know as it is evident that is your main thoughts of everything) that hate for that reason alone. (Maybe some really bad uneducated rednecks back in the woods somewhere.) You yourself stated that he has not done very much so what do you attribute the furior over? ( you will soon see) As with most people they may try and hide their inner feeling and in some cases they are not even aware of it. Real Americans know your problem is History and try to live in harmony. Then there are people Yes, like you who don't give it up. People like you make some try to raise the rebel flag again. You are showing that you are a product of continued History. Why don't you just get into the fact of just being American. (If you are?)
Oh, and it was Michelle that really wanted Jones. HE HE HE!
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Actually Christian, in 1991 a white man who was president, George H. W. Bush did a live TV address to the public schools just like Obama did. The uproar was even worse than this one. It was so bad that congress launched an investigation and held hearings over it.
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Just an update of outside turmoil. Who knows what this will bring??? maybe something bigger will happen before this!
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From: "Jeff Schwilk"
Subject: HUGE NEWS! Fed. Judge Carter sets Trial Date for Obama's Eligibility!!!
The expedited trial has been set for Jan. 26, 2010, just 4 1/2 months from now!
I and many other concerned veterans and citizens attended the hearing today in Federal Court in Santa Ana in the lawsuit against Barack Obama to determine his eligibility to be President and Commander in Chief. About 150 people showed up, almost all in support of the lawsuit to demand that Obama release his birth certificate and other records that he has hidden from the American people.
Judge David Carter refused to hear Obama's request for dismissal today, instead setting a hearing date for Oct. 5, since Obama's attorneys had just filed the motion on Friday. He indicated there was almost no chance that this case would be dismissed. Obama is arguing this lawsuit was filed in the wrong court if you can believe that. I guess Obama would prefer a "kangaroo court" instead of a Federal court! Assuming Judge Carter denies Obama's motion for dismissal, he will likely then order expedited discovery which will force Obama to release his birth certificate in a timely manner (if he has one).
The judge, who is a former U.S. Marine, repeated several times that this is a very serious case which must be resolved quickly so that the troops know that their Commander in Chief is eligible to hold that position and issue lawful orders to our military in this time of war. He basically said Obama must prove his eligibility to the court! He said Americans deserve to know the truth about their President!
The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama's attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.
Great day in America for the U.S. Constitution!!! The truth about Barack Obama's eligibility will be known fairly soon - Judge Carter practically guaranteed it!
Video from the press conference after the hearing coming soon. Congratulations to plaintiffs attorney Dr. Orly Taitz! She did a great job and won some huge victories today. She was fearless!
Jeff Schwilk, Founder
www.SanDiegoMinutemen.com
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109242
A California judge today tentatively scheduled a trial for Jan. 26, 2010, for a case that challenges Barack Obama's eligibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution.
If the case actually goes to arguments before U.S. District Judge David Carter, it will be the first time the merits of the dispute have been argued in open court, according to one of the attorneys working on the issue.
In a highly anticipated hearing today before Carter, several motions were heard, including a resolution to long-standing questions about whether attorney Orly Taitz properly served notice on the defendants, which she had.
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George,
You made me laugh when you said I think he is the best thing ever, I as of yet have not compared him to anyone as to make that statement. What I have said is I think he is doing his best and for that I am proud. You are right though he hasn't done much of anything yet, his leagacy is just beginning. I disagree with you on the small minority thing of those that hate him because of his color. I believe there is a substaintial amount of people that hate for that reason alone. You yourself stated that he has not done very much so what do you attribute the furior over? As with most people they may try and hide their inner feeling and in some cases they are not even aware of it. Example: The man that told me that Obama is making it so no black man will ever be elected again, by the way that statement was echoed by at least 3 other individuals in the chat room. They saw nothing wrong with the statement partically because they could not understand there own feelings. In Texas the furior in the school about Obama addressing the Children but this same school has scheduled their school to go to a Bush speaking, and I can go on and on. I ask myself, self? if Obama was a white man would there be this uproar over speaking to the children (self answered) no. Ephasis provided for laughter only.
The furor is no worse than the furor any president has had to face. The entire 8 years of the Bush presidency were filled with furor, protests, movies made against him and more. The first months of his presidency were chaotic with all the anger levelled against him. Would you say that this was because he is white? Yes, I heard people say things about his skin colour, but those were an angry little racist minority who hate anyone who is white. There is an angry little minority who also hate anyone who is black. Big deal. Those people are usually vocal, but they mean nothing except to the paranoid few who see racists in anyone who disagrees with them. They all belong in the tabloids with the nuts who think JFK and Elvis are living with aliens on mars. Obama is just another President like Bush, Clinton, and all the rest. Nothing makes him any significantly different. Not even the colour of his skin.
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Right on George!
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George,
You made me laugh when you said I think he is the best thing ever, I as of yet have not compared him to anyone as to make that statement. What I have said is I think he is doing his best and for that I am proud. You are right though he hasn't done much of anything yet, his leagacy is just beginning. I disagree with you on the small minority thing of those that hate him because of his color. I believe there is a substaintial amount of people that hate for that reason alone. You yourself stated that he has not done very much so what do you attribute the furior over? As with most people they may try and hide their inner feeling and in some cases they are not even aware of it. Example: The man that told me that Obama is making it so no black man will ever be elected again, by the way that statement was echoed by at least 3 other individuals in the chat room. They saw nothing wrong with the statement partically because they could not understand there own feelings. In Texas the furior in the school about Obama addressing the Children but this same school has scheduled their school to go to a Bush speaking, and I can go on and on. I ask myself, self? if Obama was a white man would there be this uproar over speaking to the children (self answered) no. Ephasis provided for laughter only.
The furor is no worse than the furor any president has had to face. The entire 8 years of the Bush presidency were filled with furor, protests, movies made against him and more. The first months of his presidency were chaotic with all the anger levelled against him. Would you say that this was because he is white? Yes, I heard people say things about his skin colour, but those were an angry little racist minority who hate anyone who is white. There is an angry little minority who also hate anyone who is black. Big deal. Those people are usually vocal, but they mean nothing except to the paranoid few who see racists in anyone who disagrees with them. They all belong in the tabloids with the nuts who think JFK and Elvis are living with aliens on mars. Obama is just another President like Bush, Clinton, and all the rest. Nothing makes him any significantly different. Not even the colour of his skin.
Whereas, I do see him as a President like any other President with the exception of his skin color I see more fury directed at him. And are you calling me a nut because I have seen Elvis? And yes, JFK is alive and living in Hawaii. Actually, I see those with unbridaled hate that would stop at nothing to stop the man even shooting themselves in the foot. I say time will tell and we will see who is right and who is wrong, lets wait.
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I disagree with you on the small minority thing of those that hate him because of his color. (How immaturely stupid ) I believe there is a substantial amount of people (you should know as it is evident that is your main thoughts of everything) that hate for that reason alone. (Maybe some really bad uneducated rednecks back in the woods somewhere.) You yourself stated that he has not done very much so what do you attribute the furior over? ( you will soon see) As with most people they may try and hide their inner feeling and in some cases they are not even aware of it. Real Americans know your problem is History and try to live in harmony. Then there are people Yes, like you who don't give it up. People like you make some try to raise the rebel flag again. You are showing that you are a product of continued History. Why don't you just get into the fact of just being American. (If you are?)
Oh, and it was Michelle that really wanted Jones. HE HE HE!
Thank you Tinka for your thoughtful responses. And I know you soooooo jealous of Michelle it is killing you, but the lady goes on being refind and fine.
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Tinka, they have addressed this issue so much beofre the man became president, they have stopped even acknowleging the issue. This is a lie. If it were true, he could not even started running. It is why Schartzenegger cannot run for President now. Believe me, there are some in Washington who wish it was this easy to get rid of President Obama..
These documents are now for public view. The documents were on this e-mail to view but cannot get them to show up here after copied. Probably if you click on His name it will come up. These e-mails come on news items. I do not sign up for them. But what if true???
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George, here is the problem. There is a small minority who hate anyone who is black. However, there is a much larger group who don't hate anyone who is black, but refuse to have one in authority......of them. The latter is the group that are most vocal about Obama....his birth, his life, his wife, his children, his walk, talk, that fact that he breathes at all.
There is a very big difference in racism in the north and the south. In the south, they are upfront and let you know..they owned slaves tried to keep it that way and were proud of it......simple. Now, the north fought for the end to slavery(supposedly), however, were a bit short sighted in that they didn't realize that all those now freed slaves would waunder up north to get a taste of that freedom the north promised. Well, they had to be subtle about their racism, so blacks would be more "comfortable" living with other blacks and not in white neighborhoods where somebody besides themselves didn't want them to live. That also went for schools, and even for churches, including the SDA church. They wanted the blacks freed, but not to be freed anywhere near them.
They had funeral services for E. E. Cleveland today. He told the story, many times, about his first day of work at GC in 1954. They had no real job for him, but their had been protests and black members were on the rise, and expecting representation, so they had to do something. Well, Elder Cleveland showed up to work, and they put him in an office and then they all disappeared to a meeting to find out what exactly he would do. Well, Elder Cleveland came upon their meeting and stated the he needed something typed. They looked around and said ok. Elder Cleveland then called over to the regional conference office to let them know that GC would be calling them for someone who could be his secretary. They assured him that they had none to spare.......as expected GC called, and they had no secretaries to spare. They never wanted to ask one of the white secretaires to work for even a great Adventist Evangelist like E. E. Cleveland, he was black after all. However, at this point they were stuck. So they brought two secretaries before him and aksed which one would be willing to be his secretayr. One caucasian American, than other a German. The Caucsian lady siad she would quit before working for a black man. The German lady concsented and was his secretary for many years.
.....and this incident happen within the "Remnant " church, the one of Bible prophecy.......Shoudl I also post the story of how regional conferences came into being?
I said all that to say this, George and Tinka, if it were only a small group, then it is a small group comprised of all those in power, which is the same as everyone being reacist as they make the policies. However, it isn't a small group, it is a large, powerful and very vocal group. Some use logic and the fact that they have 3 black friends as a cover, some are in power devise laws to descriminate and segregate, some burn crosses, torture and kill, some refuse to sell or rent houses in particular neighborhoods, some follow the black people around the store while the white people walk out the door with a good portion of their merchandise. Some live in little bedroom communities because it is "crime free" and the "schools are good",(sound familiar anyone?), but these communities conveniently near completely absent of blacks or any other minority. See how this small group is growing? Once again, maybe only a small portion actually hate all blacks, but the results are the same.
[The furor is no worse than the furor any president has had to face. The entire 8 years of the Bush presidency were filled with furor, protests, movies made against him and more. The first months of his presidency were chaotic with all the anger levelled against him. Would you say that this was because he is white? Yes, I heard people say things about his skin colour, but those were an angry little racist minority who hate anyone who is white. There is an angry little minority who also hate anyone who is black. Big deal. Those people are usually vocal, but they mean nothing except to the paranoid few who see racists in anyone who disagrees with them. They all belong in the tabloids with the nuts who think JFK and Elvis are living with aliens on mars. Obama is just another President like Bush, Clinton, and all the rest. Nothing makes him any significantly different. Not even the colour of his skin.
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Well DI,
I can agree on one thing. There are many just like you that will never get over the History that has been drilled and drilled into impossible and unchangeable ability for you to live in harmony.
I was not there or have any facts of what you say or Cleveland says about what happened. That may have been his view or what he thought for all I know the same as you talk. It would be the same as your outlook now. I am not denying that there are some like you say. But to call ones self an Adventist and still have these deep rooted and over and over stories of history does not give one a Christian ticket that still harbors what ancestors went through.
Again whites have ancestors too that were burned at the stake. So, you do not give credit to whites that fought for equality of race. You forget if you follow politics that it is the democrats that leveled always against you and still are in hidden agendas that most do not venture to take the time and follow through. It was the republicans that truthfully fought for you. And what do the blacks do but listen to that foolish agenda that promise and do nothing but keep then down in the long run. When will you go in and find the facts of history that prove this? Who do you think keeps the education the way it is. The jobs, controlled through the unions. Evidently you do not read SOP much. The way I can tell this is that you do not tell the story of the North and the South the way it happened. Read the North and the South happenings and causes by Ellen G. White.
The blacks have been so lax at this that now the smooth talking, city slicker, polished politician, corrupted and giving you all the promise of wealth and health gaining your trust because he is HALF black is nothing more then a deceiver of the worst. And with your indoctrination of black history to be put away instead of keep using it will find you also deceived. The reason i can say this is because beyond doubt his agenda is not for a Capitalistic government or the American way that the forefathers were inspired to pen. Just that simple.
And the reasoning part of the law suit they are filing for his birth CERTIFICATE is this. IF HE IS LIGIT WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF SHOWING ALL AND SAVING ALL????????? IT IS ALL REDICULOUS AND ALL HE HAS TO DO IS GIVE THE PROOF of all credentials. WHY NOT??????? Time will tell. IF there was 100% proof this would never have been an issue with some of these skeptics.
and Sabastian your showing your imature ignorance again why don't you dry up with your wine coolers.
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I brought the history up, Tinka, to bring out the point that racism, while not at the levels years ago, still it exists. History is history. You can't change it. it happened, within this church even. When we forget that, then we are doomed to perpetuate and/or repeat it. Institutionalized racism still exists in our church, among the remnant, in the form of regional conferences. That is a statement of fact and Adventist church reality, not one's opinion.
I give every credit to those who risked their lives to fight for civil rights no matter their race. Problem is there are too many who are not fighting to keep those rights who are in power........in our church, even in our country. i also know that the parties have basically traded places, in that it was essentially some form of the "republican" party who were against slavery, etc. That is a very basic part of history.
There were always white who were against slavery, and risked all to abolish it. However, it was very difficult because abolishing slavery meant basically destroying the economic system of the south. There are always at least two sides to a story. I am sure that is how they viewed it, that their entire way of life was being threatened, and it was. However, it should have been as it was built on the wrong foundation, the enslavement, misery, and even detrimeint of others...........who were also God's children.
Make no mistake, I am not angry or bitter about the things that happened. They sadden me the same way it saddens my Heavenly Father, that His children are fighting amongst themselves. I strive to see all as God does, as His childrem whom He loves unconditionally. Tt is a process, and somewhat a new undertaking for me, 3 years at the most. However, I find that it truly helps, and I can see why God impressed me to change my view of His Children in my current position at work. So no, this is not about not forgiving, but correcting and learning from our mistakes. The first step is always to acknowledge that there is a problem. Racism is not only a problem of the past, but our present. However, it does not have to be part of our future.
Lastly, Tinka, I am intrigued.........EGW has some insight into the Civil War? Do tell..I truly missed that.
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The majority of the people who voted for Obama are white and so are the majority of the people who continue to support him. Without the white vote he would not have been elected. Yes, there are a number of people who hate him simply because he is black, and there are those who chaffe at the idea of a black man running the country, but there are a large majority for whom that is not an issue. Believe it or not, there is lots of disagreement with him on matters of policy that have nothing to do with him as a person.
The SDA church, on the other hand, is historically a brazenly racist organization that has not divested itself of its institutional racism. In the Eastern half of the USA the church has segregated the black people out into their own conferences. Not the Asians, not the Hispanics, only the black people. Yes, Princess, I would be interested in seeing the history of the regional conferences if you would post it.
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I will let you read a little of what a very educatied woman wrote. She speaks the truth.
ANNE WORTHAM
Anne Wortham is Associate Professor of Sociology at Illinois State University and continuing Visiting Scholar at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. She is a member of the American Sociological Association and the American Philosophic al Association.
She has been a John M. Olin Foundation Faculty Fellow, and honored as a Distinguished Alumni of the Year by the Nation al Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.
In fall 1988 she was one of a select group of intellectuals who were featured in Bill Moyer's television series, "A World of Ideas." The transcript of her conversation with Moyers has been published in his book, A World of Ideas.
Dr. Wortham is author of "The Other Side of Racism: A Philosophical Study of Black Race Consciousness" which analyzes how race consciousness is transformed into political strategies and policy issues..
She has published numerous articles on the implications of individual rights for civil rights policy, and is currently writing a book on theories of social and cultural marginality.
Recently, she has published articles on the significance of multiculturalism and Afrocentricism in education, the politics of victimization and the social and political impact of political correctness. Shortly after an interview in 2004, she was awarded tenure.
This article by her is something.
Fellow Americans,
Please know: I am Black; I grew up in the segregated South.. I did not vote for Barack Obama; I wrote in Ron Paul's name as my choice for president. Most importantly, I am not race conscious. I do not require a Black president to know that I am a person of worth, and that life is worth living. I do not require a Black president to love the ideal of America.
I cannot join you in your celebration. I feel no elation. There is no smile on my face. I am not jumping with joy. There are no tears of triumph in my eyes. For such emotions and behavior to come from me, I would have to deny all that I know about the requirements of human flourishing and survival - all that I know about the history of the United States of America , all that I know about American race relations, and all that I know about Barack Obama as a politician. I would have to deny the nature of the "change" that Obama asserts has come to America .
Most importantly, I would have to abnegate my certain understanding that you have chosen to sprint down the road to serfdom that we have been on for over a century. I would have to pretend that individual liberty has no value for the success of a human life. I would have to evade your rejection of the slender reed of capitalism on which your success and mine depend. I would have to think it somehow rational that 94 percent of the 12 million Blacks in this country voted for a man because he looks like them (that Blacks are permitted to play the race card), and that they were joined by self-declared "progressive" whites who voted for him because he doesn't look like them.
I would have to wipe my mind clean of all that I know about the kind of people who have advised and taught Barack Obama and will fill posts in his administration - political intellectuals like my former colleagues at the Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.
I would have to believe that "fairness" is equivalent of justice. I would have to believe that a man who asks me to "go forward in a new spirit of service, in a new service of sacrifice" is speaking in my interest. I would have to accept the premise of a man that economic prosperity comes from the "bottom up," and who arrogantly believes that he can will it into existence by the use of government force. I would have to admire a man who thinks the standard of living of the masses can be improved by destroying the most productive and the generators of wealth.
Finally, Americans, I would have to erase from my consciousness the scene of 125,000 screaming, crying, cheering people in Grant Park, Chicago irrationally chanting "Yes We Can!" Finally, I would have to wipe all memory of all the times I have heard politicians, pundits, journalists, editorialists, bloggers and intellectuals declare that capitalism is dead - and no one, including especially Alan Greenspan, objected to their assumption that the particular version of the anti-capitalistic mentality that they want to replace with their own version of anti-capitalism is anything remotely equivalent to capitalism.
So you have made history, Americans. You and your children have elected a Black man to the office of the president of the United States, the wounded giant of the world. The battle between John Wayne and Jane Fonda is over - and that Fonda won. Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern must be very happy men. Jimmie Carter, too. And the Kennedys have at last gotten their Kennedy look-a-like. The self-righteous welfare statists in the suburbs can feel warm moments of satisfaction for having elected a Black person.
So, toast yourselves: 60s countercultural radicals, 80s yuppies and 90s bourgeois bohemians. Toast yourselves, BlackAmerica. Shout your glee Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke, Stanford, and Berkeley. You have elected not an individual who is qualified to be president, but a Black man who, like the pragmatist Franklin Roosevelt, promises to - Do Something! You now have someone who has picked up the baton of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. But you have also foolishly traded your freedom and mine - what little there is left - for the chance to feel good.
There is nothing in me that can share your happy obliviousness. God Help Us all...
Anne Wortham
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That is her opinion and I would never invalidate her experience or opinion. This is truth for her, and you, if you share the same opinions. The great thing about being God's Child and living in the United States of America is that we can all be of different opinions, experiences and still learn to love an appreciate each other. She doesn't have to share my opinions for me to be proud of her accomplishments as a black woman.
She is entitled to he opinions, you are entitled to agree, and I am entitled to disagree with them. Simple. I believe you were thinking that if I heard your words from someone black that would sway me in some way. I don/t even alwaiys agree with The President just because he is black, neither did I vote for him for that reason only. Sorry, did not work.
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Princessdi,
and I did not expect to change anyones mind that thinks Starwars is ok and wine bibblers. In fact I have known from the start you cannot change spots. Also a good sabbath school teacher would have ventured into all 9 volumns of patterns of life that was given to set examples when there is question. It is obvious you haven't. You can find the whole inner story of the North and the South and the real meat in there. All you know is handme downs instead of getting into the meat of it yourself. You and I would clash immensely in a class because I would have to bring in the quotes and of course SDA is getting totally away from that.
Also the blacks in the east wanted their own conferences and I wonder what for. There own this and their own that.
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This evening we heard part of President Obama's speech during the news. The whole world is listening to what this man has to say.
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Yes and he came across very demanding, overbearing, showmanship. His dictorial agressiveness was downright scary.
He will not tolerate this and will not tolerate that and above all dared anyone to have a different opinin that did not match up to his. Then he said do not even think this is not going to happen......on and on until another Congressman yelled out You lie!!!" His first thoughts were right.
Who does this dictator think he is. This has got to stop. The truth is in the bill.... Now you got a real dangerous greenie that was elected today.
America is coming awake. Their heading to Washington by the bus loads.
Sent:?Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:21 AM
Subject:?FW: HB 1388 Passed
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Subject:?FW: HB 1388 Passed
I did not want to pass this on until I checked it out. Sure enough this is true.? Think how much 20 mil could help the?poor people?out of work in this country.? This is almost unbelievable. I did not use the link below.? I typed in House Bill 1388 passed by?executive order?and got the same information.
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HB-1388 PASSED
Whether you are an Obama fan, or not, EVERYONE IN THE U. S. needs to
know....
Something happened... H.R. 1388 was passed yesterday, behind our
backs. You may want to read about it.. It wasn ' t mentioned on the
news... just went by on the ticker tape at the bottom of the CNN
screen.
Obama funds $20M in?tax payer dollars?to immigrate?Hamas?Refugees to
the USA . This is the news that didn't make the headlines...
By executive order, President?Barack Obama?has ordered the expenditure
of $20.3 million in "migration assistance" to the?Palestinian refugees
and "conflict victims" in?Gaza?.
The "presidential determination", which allows hundreds of thousands
of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States ,
was signed on?January 27?and appeared in the?Federal Register?on
February 4.
Few on?Capitol Hill, or in the media, took note that the order
provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to
individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support to the
Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of
January 2006.
Let ' s review....itemized list of some of Barack Obama ' s most recent
actions since his inauguration:
His first call to any head of state, as president, was to?Mahmoud
Abbas, leader of?Fatah?party in the?Palestinian territory.
His first one-on-one television interview with any news organization
was with Al Arabia television.
His first executive order was to fund/facilitate abortion(s) not just
here within the U. S. , but within the world, using U. S. tax payer
funds.
He ordered?Guantanamo Bay?closed and all military trials of detainees
halted..
He ordered overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.
He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the?USS Cole
and the "terror attack" on 9/11.
Now we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian
refuges to move to, and live in, the US at American taxpayer expense.
These important, and insightful, issues are being "lost" in the
blinding bail-outs and "stimulation" packages.
Doubtful? To verify this for yourself:
?
www..thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488
PLEASE PASS THIS ON... AMERICA NEEDS TO KNOW
WE are losing this country at a rapid pace.
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It worked in Biblical days with the Trojan Horse. They fell from with in because they could not do it against our Miitary Power.
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I will let you read a little of what a very educatied woman wrote. She speaks the truth.
ANNE WORTHAM
Anne Wortham is Associate Professor of Sociology at Illinois State University and continuing Visiting Scholar at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. She is a member of the American Sociological Association and the American Philosophic al Association.
She has been a John M. Olin Foundation Faculty Fellow, and honored as a Distinguished Alumni of the Year by the Nation al Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.
In fall 1988 she was one of a select group of intellectuals who were featured in Bill Moyer's television series, "A World of Ideas." The transcript of her conversation with Moyers has been published in his book, A World of Ideas.
Dr. Wortham is author of "The Other Side of Racism: A Philosophical Study of Black Race Consciousness" which analyzes how race consciousness is transformed into political strategies and policy issues..
She has published numerous articles on the implications of individual rights for civil rights policy, and is currently writing a book on theories of social and cultural marginality.
Recently, she has published articles on the significance of multiculturalism and Afrocentricism in education, the politics of victimization and the social and political impact of political correctness. Shortly after an interview in 2004, she was awarded tenure.
This article by her is something.
Fellow Americans,
Please know: I am Black; I grew up in the segregated South.. I did not vote for Barack Obama; I wrote in Ron Paul's name as my choice for president. Most importantly, I am not race conscious. I do not require a Black president to know that I am a person of worth, and that life is worth living. I do not require a Black president to love the ideal of America.
I cannot join you in your celebration. I feel no elation. There is no smile on my face. I am not jumping with joy. There are no tears of triumph in my eyes. For such emotions and behavior to come from me, I would have to deny all that I know about the requirements of human flourishing and survival - all that I know about the history of the United States of America , all that I know about American race relations, and all that I know about Barack Obama as a politician. I would have to deny the nature of the "change" that Obama asserts has come to America .
Most importantly, I would have to abnegate my certain understanding that you have chosen to sprint down the road to serfdom that we have been on for over a century. I would have to pretend that individual liberty has no value for the success of a human life. I would have to evade your rejection of the slender reed of capitalism on which your success and mine depend. I would have to think it somehow rational that 94 percent of the 12 million Blacks in this country voted for a man because he looks like them (that Blacks are permitted to play the race card), and that they were joined by self-declared "progressive" whites who voted for him because he doesn't look like them.
I would have to wipe my mind clean of all that I know about the kind of people who have advised and taught Barack Obama and will fill posts in his administration - political intellectuals like my former colleagues at the Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.
I would have to believe that "fairness" is equivalent of justice. I would have to believe that a man who asks me to "go forward in a new spirit of service, in a new service of sacrifice" is speaking in my interest. I would have to accept the premise of a man that economic prosperity comes from the "bottom up," and who arrogantly believes that he can will it into existence by the use of government force. I would have to admire a man who thinks the standard of living of the masses can be improved by destroying the most productive and the generators of wealth.
Finally, Americans, I would have to erase from my consciousness the scene of 125,000 screaming, crying, cheering people in Grant Park, Chicago irrationally chanting "Yes We Can!" Finally, I would have to wipe all memory of all the times I have heard politicians, pundits, journalists, editorialists, bloggers and intellectuals declare that capitalism is dead - and no one, including especially Alan Greenspan, objected to their assumption that the particular version of the anti-capitalistic mentality that they want to replace with their own version of anti-capitalism is anything remotely equivalent to capitalism.
So you have made history, Americans. You and your children have elected a Black man to the office of the president of the United States, the wounded giant of the world. The battle between John Wayne and Jane Fonda is over - and that Fonda won. Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern must be very happy men. Jimmie Carter, too. And the Kennedys have at last gotten their Kennedy look-a-like. The self-righteous welfare statists in the suburbs can feel warm moments of satisfaction for having elected a Black person.
So, toast yourselves: 60s countercultural radicals, 80s yuppies and 90s bourgeois bohemians. Toast yourselves, BlackAmerica. Shout your glee Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke, Stanford, and Berkeley. You have elected not an individual who is qualified to be president, but a Black man who, like the pragmatist Franklin Roosevelt, promises to - Do Something! You now have someone who has picked up the baton of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. But you have also foolishly traded your freedom and mine - what little there is left - for the chance to feel good.
There is nothing in me that can share your happy obliviousness. God Help Us all...
Anne Wortham
Tinka, you can find someone to support any theory you want, that is how Jerry Springer keeps it coming. Recently he had a man on that fell in love with his horse and was there to marry it, using your logic I guess marrying a horse would be find for white people because there he was, a white man marrying a horse. There are thousands of Black educated men and women who voted for Obama who think he is qualified more than the man you voted for, George Bush. And might I add that there are thousands of men who think Michelle Obama is a beautiful lady even in shorts. I am sorry you are to old to wear shorts now, even though I know you were against wearing shorts when you were younger but even more so at your age now.
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Yes and he came across very demanding, overbearing, showmanship. His dictorial agressiveness was downright scary.
He will not tolerate this and will not tolerate that and above all dared anyone to have a different opinin that did not match up to his. Then he said do not even think this is not going to happen......on and on until another Congressman yelled out You lie!!!" His first thoughts were right.
Who does this dictator think he is. This has got to stop. The truth is in the bill.... Now you got a real dangerous greenie that was elected today.
America is coming awake. Their heading to Washington by the bus loads.
Sent:?Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:21 AM
Subject:?FW: HB 1388 Passed
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Subject:?FW: HB 1388 Passed
I did not want to pass this on until I checked it out. Sure enough this is true.? Think how much 20 mil could help the?poor people?out of work in this country.? This is almost unbelievable. I did not use the link below.? I typed in House Bill 1388 passed by?executive order?and got the same information.
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HB-1388 PASSED
Whether you are an Obama fan, or not, EVERYONE IN THE U. S. needs to
know....
Something happened... H.R. 1388 was passed yesterday, behind our
backs. You may want to read about it.. It wasn ' t mentioned on the
news... just went by on the ticker tape at the bottom of the CNN
screen.
Obama funds $20M in?tax payer dollars?to immigrate?Hamas?Refugees to
the USA . This is the news that didn't make the headlines...
By executive order, President?Barack Obama?has ordered the expenditure
of $20.3 million in "migration assistance" to the?Palestinian refugees
and "conflict victims" in?Gaza?.
The "presidential determination", which allows hundreds of thousands
of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States ,
was signed on?January 27?and appeared in the?Federal Register?on
February 4.
Few on?Capitol Hill, or in the media, took note that the order
provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to
individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support to the
Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of
January 2006.
Let ' s review....itemized list of some of Barack Obama ' s most recent
actions since his inauguration:
His first call to any head of state, as president, was to?Mahmoud
Abbas, leader of?Fatah?party in the?Palestinian territory.
His first one-on-one television interview with any news organization
was with Al Arabia television.
His first executive order was to fund/facilitate abortion(s) not just
here within the U. S. , but within the world, using U. S. tax payer
funds.
He ordered?Guantanamo Bay?closed and all military trials of detainees
halted..
He ordered overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.
He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the?USS Cole
and the "terror attack" on 9/11.
Now we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian
refuges to move to, and live in, the US at American taxpayer expense.
These important, and insightful, issues are being "lost" in the
blinding bail-outs and "stimulation" packages.
Doubtful? To verify this for yourself:
?
www..thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488
PLEASE PASS THIS ON... AMERICA NEEDS TO KNOW
WE are losing this country at a rapid pace.
?
You are really biting hard, Michelle has you really really mad, have you seen here chisled arms lately? I can almost bet to my last dollar you don't like Serena Williams either? THE PALISTINEANS DO NOT HAVE A IMAGRATION POLOCY THE MONEY SENT GOES TO HOSPITAL ETC. BILL CLINTON, GEORGE SENIOR AND THE PRESIDENTS BEFORE ALL GAVE TO THE PALISTINEANS LOOK IT UP ON FACT CHECK.
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Sabastian,
It is appearing more and more that you do not have American roots or your parents have raised you with this evil racism that will get you no where. I do not even know who Serena is or heard of her. If she is on the tv my only interest is some of Hope channel and the news. You must watch the rest of the garbage and therefore that is why you are not educated in other matters.
As far as your hang up on jealousy, she has nothing and I say nothing to be jealous of. She could not even carry out her previous employment. She is ruthless and domineering and incredibly funny dressed. I imagine it does take a lot of money to find a designer to camouflage her funny apparel for her back yard and make up. I saw her without and she is no better then the rest of us. She is no beauty, body wise or facial with her jaw that sticks out farther then her whole face. and to be more spacific I consider beauty in refinment, goodness, cultured, meek, humble,poise, education and manners. I thought MIke Huckabee wife was the beauty. Check out MO education. It is no better then Obamas. Did you realize that JC Pickens had to tell BO that 18 wheelers could not be run by battery. Te HE Te He. Time is moving on and more corruption is unfolding by the day.
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Tinka,
There is nothing worse than a none television watching evil Christian. You really get hot under the collar when you talk about Michelle Obama the beautiful first lady.
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You finally aligned yourself of not being adventist. I was pretty sure of it and now positive. You just used the shools for your children. Probably to corrupt others with your liberal beliefs. That is a big problem for our schools. and you being a man maybe you are looking at MO so hard that you lost conscience as you have made that so apparent. Your very easy to see through.
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Now, why would you believe we would clash? I always enjoy learning something new. i asked you about what your insight, I didn't say I did not read anything, only that I missed the point you were trying to make. You are also assuming that if we both read the some thing we will come to the same conclusion. That is not so. I don't know everything, even as a SS teacher, and neither do you? How about an exchange of ideas where each one learns something. We each share what we have found. That is how I see SS or actually any discussion. Everyone doesn't need to be wrong for me(or you) to be right. I have yet to assume that you lack any kind of knowledge to reach the conclusion you have. You, however, have not extended me the same respect, but that is not on me. Your instances that all blacks, or anyone for that matter, who agrees with you is well educated, those who differ are not. It seems that this might be a foreign thought to you, but I would actually consider you a welcome and valuable addition to my class.
Now, being a SS teacher, I do get to take an opportunity to teach very serious and as distinct my pleasure. Tinka, the blacks in the east did not want their own conferences. That is not how the regional conferences came into existence. Below, you will find a link to the story from Review Online about one of the final incident that resulted in the establishment of regional conferences. Regional conferences were GC's idea based on this particular incident and many others. In short, in response to the blatant and deadly racism that pervaded our church at the time, GC responded with institutionalized segregation.......separate but equal. However, we know that separate is never equal.
And Tinka, you got just one more time to disrespect me. I show you the respect you deserve as God's child and I expect the same in response. So from here on in, you will refrain from insulting my intelligence,and making any reference to anything negative you perceive about my life....as, beside what I post here, you don't know me from a can of paint. Now, I have tried overlooking your attacks and asking you nicely, this is the last time I make this request in this courteous manner. If you persist, I will respond exactly as you respond to me, and I promise you won't like it. So just so we don't have to go there, please respect my wishes for common respect. I know the interaction between us can be much better, as George and I are having the same conversation, we disagree in the same areas that you and I disagree, and he has yet to be disrespectful. In fact, even in our disagreement, we have found some common ground.
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=2406 (http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=2406)
Princessdi,
and I did not expect to change anyones mind that thinks Starwars is ok and wine bibblers. In fact I have known from the start you cannot change spots. Also a good sabbath school teacher would have ventured into all 9 volumns of patterns of life that was given to set examples when there is question. It is obvious you haven't. You can find the whole inner story of the North and the South and the real meat in there. All you know is handme downs instead of getting into the meat of it yourself. You and I would clash immensely in a class because I would have to bring in the quotes and of course SDA is getting totally away from that.
Also the blacks in the east wanted their own conferences and I wonder what for. There own this and their own that.
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Princessdi
I read the article, I am not sure I can believe that because I do not know the author's agenda for writing it. I do not know if the author might be black and this just another one of those history tales that can bring on the accomplished effects that it is portraying. In fact that is the very thing I am talking about to finally let history lie down. I am not saying this did not happen but then I would have to have more proof that it actually did. It sort of amazes me that anyone that believes the church did this that they would actually stay in the church and try to teach that particular church to other people. I know and realize all the injustice that has been done but when one cannot overcome it and still live it over and over I do not see how that can help anyone overcome the entanglement of Satan and his tool. This has been one of his greatest feats. And yet when the Black race spills their oppression out they intern feel and think horrible disgrace because America tried to stop the oppression of another race. I just do not get it. There was those that tried to stop the oppression of the blacks too. That is why being an old yankee woman I felt the war was needed. Especially seeing and visualizing the terror of death and oppression to the people in the east. Can you give any reason for this difference.
You have misunderstood me entirely in my beliefs and knowing this tool is from the devil I "will not acknowledge it". It is evil. I want no part of it. I do not like it brought up. It is a way of life that is not good for anyone. I consider all human birth the creation of God until they try to mess it up. I am not going to be accountable for bringing it up and bringing it up. It is the same thing with people that love to display the cross, wear the cross, --It is sadness, it is heartwrenching, it is to know what was done to Jesus that suffered on it. It is too hard to bear. The land it happened on is not holy. but yet made money off when that land and people do not even believe Jesus is the Son. How ridiculous. So is racism. But people will not let it die so all can live in harmony. But yet I know that will only be in a perfect world. I am responsible only for my self and therefore I choose not to do what I know Jesus never wanted. It is history and yes I know there are still red necks out there. But it makes it worse when the recism changes from white to black!!!
also I am not a perfect person either. But I am not going to lose heaven because I did not take the time to read, understand and cherish the last message given to a last day people. I know there is a type of sin that we constantly regret and just about die inside with it but then there is intentional sin when we know beyond doubt. Some of the posting i have seen on here is much intentional and justification of why they do it especially when we have been shown the reasons why we should not go there. Some seem trivial and yes i have respect for truth only.
As far as the article of an educated women speaking the truth and as a person that sees facts before belief this woman has her facts from her extreme intelligence of actual history from all the top college of the nation she is quite remarkable as God has kept her mind clear from the screwed up professors that taught liberalism. Her mind stayed focused. Now if you want to hear a screwed up person look at the next czar that obama has chosen. We all have something to worry about now.
I know what bills are going down, I read them. I have the bills sent and know what they say. My husband and I both study them with him being very well educated in Environmental law and business. That is why one congressman yelled out. You lie. Unless you read and do that one cannot possibly know what is going down your just listening to talk. Sort of like at times when i see you finally read something and then comment as you just did on other post then I know you took another look to your surprise.
It does seem like the time of trouble is coming as many are completely unaware the forming of the opposition. I compare it to what I have read in our books. I know what has been done to us by government corruptions first hand. It is deadly, I know the agenda, we know some of the politicians, we know the control, we know how it works. It came from both parties and now we know what individuals are for the people and which are the ones against whats right for America. The whole conglomerations is almost gone and no turning back. Anyone that works for the people are hacked. The evil is becoming more and more powerful. If you do not believe this you are wasting too much time not to educate yourself of facts before you speak.
For instance you finally decided that this episode is from very strange people. It is not only strange but enough evidence that it is totally corrupt. Then there is the justifiers of the antics of the paternity test. Believe it, you got it right when you finally got how it happened. Then they came back on to justify all the shenanigans. The most import fact on this Di is this. If it was christian, if it was all in according with God's works IT WOULD NOT ANY OF IT HAPPENED AND NONE OF THIS WOULD BE GOING ON. But it is and I have followed all the documents since it started then after 2 years made comments of total disgust of misuse of funds and what is worse was the 'Swaggart replicas, while others protect. Most of them are as flaky as pie. There is nothing anyone can do to justify any of this. Everyone that has a good reason for why it all happened and what manner it happened is just plain out of touch with the right side of things. Personal business you think, Well it is public business, because it is public money stole with lies. IF it was you how many :horse: could you feed comfortably. I wonder if you helped feed them too like i did? I know how much 4 would cost and did it for our children. After much thought, it was time wasted, clubs, money, work and feed and hay. It was play time but it was our own money. Had to be on long trip today from Chicago to home and thought I might make some things a little clearer but I positively know my talent is not in speaking as clear as I would like for the correct understanding. But guess my nature is straight forward without the tack and now old. How is that for an example of justification?
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Tinka,
Huh, you don't know what you are talking about, you voted for Bush and you are the one that is causing all the trouble. Tinka, Michelle is three times the lady you are and you know it. It is under the Obama's that we will have the message spread to all the world and then after that you will vote in someone that thinks like you do and the end will come and total corruptions will come to pass. You will vote in another person like the queen, refine in the public but un-refine behind close doors. And whatever articles you are reading are simply feeding in to your total corruption of thought. Michelle Obama is almost six feet tall and beautiful and half your age, but your total corruption has started.
And you keep talking about the letter you posted from your educated Uncle Tom. When in fact millions of educated Black men and women voted for Obama but you have not posted their letters.
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Sabastian,
You need to get to your mosque 3 times a day and get down. You are obsessed with the 6' x 4' footer you can't get too or have, . Wow, you got it bad! I now realize what you must look like :ROFL:
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It is under the Obama's that we will have the message spread to all the world and then after that you will vote in someone that thinks like you do and the end will come and total corruptions will come to pass.
Amen! For the Lord hath spoken unto us through his servants the prophets and shewn us what shall come to pass. Hearken all ye that dwell upon the earth and know ye that unto two thousand and nine days and then shall the image to the beast be led by he who shall take the message of the remnant even unto the whole world, and the total corruptions shall come to pass, and then shall the end come. And by this ye shall know him, that unto him shall be given for wife an woman of great height. So let it be written, so let it be done.
(Lol! Sorry, Christian, I couldn't help it. The prophecy was a good flair.)
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It is under the Obama's that we will have the message spread to all the world and then after that you will vote in someone that thinks like you do and the end will come and total corruptions will come to pass.
Amen! For the Lord hath spoken unto us through his servants the prophets and shewn us what shall come to pass. Hearken all ye that dwell upon the earth and know ye that unto two thousand and nine days and then shall the image to the beast be led by he who shall take the message of the remnant even unto the whole world, and the total corruptions shall come to pass, and then shall the end come. And by this ye shall know him, that unto him shall be given for wife an woman of great height. So let it be written, so let it be done.
(Lol! Sorry, Christian, I couldn't help it. The prophecy was a good flair.)
ROFLOL Actually I was laughing when I wrote it but I figured if Tinka can post outrageous things so can I. George, I agree with you I believe he is like any other president , however I believe he is sincere and probably will be one of the better one when history is recorded. As for Michelle Obama by presidential standards she is one of the prettiest.
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Sabastian,
You only have words that play both sides for recognition. I am yankee enough to admit voting for Bush but with regrets. But on the other hand you had idiocy to vote for. Gore is smart enough to lead the idiots to drink green tea with the communists agenda and make 100 million dollars.
Obama drinks green tea as it works for the college professors and stupid followers that swallow it too. "Who ever controls the land controls the people".
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and Geeorge,
aren't you afraid of adding or taking away scripture for those who might take this serious and don't know the difference??
See many cannot tell the difference from right or wrong on this DS saga. You got even wine bibblers on here :o
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Sabastian,
You only have words that play both sides for recognition. I am yankee enough to admit voting for Bush but with regrets. But on the other hand you had idiocy to vote for. Gore is smart enough to lead the idiots to drink green tea with the communists agenda and make 100 million dollars.
Obama drinks green tea as it works for the college professors and stupid followers that swallow it too. "Who ever controls the land controls the people".
Who is Sabastian? Anyway, in case you are referring to me, I did not vote for Gore. And obviously if you voted for Bush you are not fit to give any advice on anything. People like you have screw the entire country up. Michelle Obama the beautiful first lady attended Harvard University, therefore she is smarter than you and prettier. And now your corruption is finally coming out, you are not really a Yankee girl, but rather a southern infiltrator. Now since you voted for Bush both times tell me why we should listen to anything you say. You more than any has caused much of the corruption that we experience now.
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You aint seen nothing yet from your vote. and you do not know what I look like so therefore you talk out your hat continually. But I do know what you look like :ROFL: It is more then obvious. Your subconcience drools out your lips.
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Just an observation here - In debate, attacks on the person (ad hominem) come when one has no more substance with which to debate the points. I am going to suggest that dealing with the issues without engaging in personal attack will provide a conversation in which each person's points can be respected even when there is disagreement. The personal attacks diminish the credibility of all points.
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George is right in pointing out the need to avoid such attacks.
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Just an observation here - In debate, attacks on the person (ad hominem) come when one has no more substance with which to debate the points. I am going to suggest that dealing with the issues without engaging in personal attack will provide a conversation in which each person's points can be respected even when there is disagreement. The personal attacks diminish the credibility of all points.
Point well taken, so I will continue on simply stating the facts and letting them fall where they may. It is obvious that the beginning of the corruption started in the Bush era primarily driven by those who voted for Bush, not once but twice. It is obvious to those with a discerning eye that Obama inherited a mess when he took office; but I guess he knew that but was willing to sacrifice for his country anyway. ----luckily we got a two for one deal in that we got Michelle Obama also, who is a very well educated woman. I would say that she and Hillary have been some of the most influential first ladies in office. -----It will be very difficult for Obama to stop the corruption that has already begun by those who voted in corruption. We, the United States, has suffered 9/11 and two wars since George Bush Jr was in office and it is evident that corruption took on a new form during that time. I still cannot figure out how the third building fell on 9/11 or how the main identified mastermines passport was found in the wreckage unscathed. ---Fortunately we have Obama the anti-corruption president and his very beautiful first lady in office. Surely we will see and subsiding of the corruption that has taken place because of those with religious zeal misplaced that voted him into office.
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Just an observation here - In debate, attacks on the person (ad hominem) come when one has no more substance with which to debate the points. I am going to suggest that dealing with the issues without engaging in personal attack will provide a conversation in which each person's points can be respected even when there is disagreement. The personal attacks diminish the credibility of all points.
Point well taken, so I will continue on simply stating the facts and letting them fall where they may. It is obvious that the beginning of the corruption started in the Bush era primarily driven by those who voted for Bush, not once but twice. It is obvious to those with a discerning eye that Obama inherited a mess when he took office; but I guess he knew that but was willing to sacrifice for his country anyway. ----luckily we got a two for one deal in that we got Michelle Obama also, who is a very well educated woman. I would say that she and Hillary have been some of the most influential first ladies in office. -----It will be very difficult for Obama to stop the corruption that has already begun by those who voted in corruption. We, the United States, has suffered 9/11 and two wars since George Bush Jr was in office and it is evident that corruption took on a new form during that time. I still cannot figure out how the third building fell on 9/11 or how the main identified mastermines passport was found in the wreckage unscathed. ---Fortunately we have Obama the anti-corruption president and his very beautiful first lady in office. Surely we will see and subsiding of the corruption that has taken place because of those with religious zeal misplaced that voted him into office.
I agree that there was corruption during the Bush administration, but I am interested in what factors have led you to conclude that corruption started with Bush. Would you mind expounding on that point? Looking back across the history the of the office of the presidency I can't recall a single president who did not have corruption in his administration. Every person who has ever voted for a president has voted in corruption, including those who voted for Obama, and every president (except Washington) has had a difficult time in purporting to clean up the previous president's corruptions, while perpetrating his own. Furthermore, there is no president, including George Washington, who did not inherit a mess.
While I agree that Hillary Clinton is without doubt the most influential First Lady to have resided in the White House, Michelle Obama has not been. That may change, but while she is a fine and beautiful lady, to date she has not extended her influence in any extraordinary way.
Are you implying that George Bush was responsible for effecting the 9/11 terrorist attacks?
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I said the corruption took on a different form under Bush. As far as 9/11 goes I simply question why building 3 collapsed. Plus those building did indeed fell like a demolition project. I differ with you on Michelle Obama in that just her being there (presidents wife) (black) changes the perception of some.
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I said the corruption took on a different form under Bush. As far as 9/11 goes I simply question why building 3 collapsed. Plus those building did indeed fell like a demolition project. I differ with you on Michelle Obama in that just her being there (presidents wife) (black) changes the perception of some.
I fail to see where you said that corruption took on a different form under Bush, but that aside, I agree to the extent that each president has taken on his own forms of corruption, with the exception of pandering to some aspect of big business, which every president from Washington to Obama has done. Money is power and every president by nature craves power, not one being an exception.
Your point on Michelle Obama is well taken. She is a focal point that highlights the rapid changes this country has gone through in less than a century. Her family is one of the multi-generational wealthy elite who show that the capitalist system is colour blind for those who take initiative and use it under the great American system. She shows that the racist mentality that would once have kept her poor and far from ever taking up residence in the White House has died out. She is an iconic reflection of the large and fast growing population of black people who are now counted among the wealthy elite in America. This did not happen in the last year, it has been building up for generations, and she and her parents are the proof of it. Long live the America that produced Michelle Obama under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, and Kennedy!
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I just watched Cnn tonight and the were saying that a large number of those participating in the tea party have expressed racist attitudes especially when it comes to blacks, they CNN seemed to say it as though that was a suprise. As I have said in the past a lot of what is motivating protest and the like has a lot to do with the fact that Obama is black. I have never implied that everyone is prejudice but I am saying that there is a larger group of prejudice people than we want to acknowledge. And some are prejudice and don't even know it, that goes for blacks and whites. The tea party members are 99.9 percent white. ----------- It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.
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It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.
That would be partly because there are no white conferences. There are the conferences that are inclusive of everyone including black, and then there are the black conferences that are exclusively black. There are no white, hispanic, or Asian conferences.
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It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.
That would be partly because there are no white conferences. There are the conferences that are inclusive of everyone including black, and then there are the black conferences that are exclusively black. There are no white, hispanic, or Asian conferences.
There is indeed a white conference and it has been that way for years. And you are not correct there is a Hispanic and an Asian conference, where are you getting your information from. I have been to Mexico, Japan, Philippians and etc. they all have there own conference. In this country with the exception of the Black conference aka Allegheny east and west there is only white conferences. The Black conference has never excluded anyone from joining, actually, we have white members in our church. The white Adventist just refuse to join but if they did the black conferences would take them back with open arms. And rightly it should be that way since the majority of the Adventist are people of color.
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Lol. As you know, the conferences in the other parts of the world don't count in this discussion. The "regional conferences" are here in the USA. And the regular conferences contain the hispanic, white, and Asian churches and leadership, they are not white. There are no "regional conferences" in the NAD for any group except black. Of course I am aware that white people have joined some of their churches, but the sad fact remains that those conferences were created specifically for the black population for the express purpose of segregating them. I am appalled at this segregation. Before moving to the USA I was not even aware of segregated churches. Where I grew up everyone went to church together as equals. There were no black churches, white churches, or any other racial churches, there were Adventist churches. And I never saw this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either. I find it absurd no matter who it comes from.
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Lol. As you know, the conferences in the other parts of the world don't count in this discussion. The "regional conferences" are here in the USA. And the regular conferences contain the hispanic, white, and Asian churches and leadership, they are not white. There are no "regional conferences" in the NAD for any group except black. Of course I am aware that white people have joined some of their churches, but the sad fact remains that those conferences were created specifically for the black population for the express purpose of segregating them. I am appalled at this segregation. Before moving to the USA I was not even aware of segregated churches. Where I grew up everyone went to church together as equals. There were no black churches, white churches, or any other racial churches, there were Adventist churches. And I never saw this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either. I find it absurd no matter who it comes from.
Wrong, the black conferences were not created for the purpose of segregation, but rather so that the Black race in a time of racial prejudice could receive the message unabated. The point I was trying to make is the other nationalities already have their own conference, howbeit they are in there prospective countries. And I don't know if you are referring to me or not when you say "this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either." As you stated you come from another country so remember that when you say statements that refer to your perceived motivation for such said conversation. I do believe that in the time we live in it is most ashamed that our churches still without justification continue to be segregated for the most part. However it is not just indicative of the Seventhday Adventist church in America, but all denominations, churches and conferences across the entire United States. But among the professed remnant it is most appalling, in my opinion. Often, even in our political arena it seems that when it come to the Black and White race they seem to draw lines primarily on the basis of race in many instances. ---- I have attended the Black and White churches and have had the unique experience to have both sides talking about each other and it is ashamed. You can go into most white Adventist Churches and find prejudice to the extreme especially down south. For the most part I have found the Black churches more ready and able to except the white member and often eager for them to work. Whereas I have found that the white Church members to be suspicious of blacks and behind close doors afraid, and often try to limit their (blacks) influence. This has just been my personal experience. I know of many instances where if blacks come into a church in any great number the white members will move to another church. ------Is there a need to agitate this issue among those in the American division (absolutely) because it is evident that many a white brethren and black brethren will lose their salvation because of it (prejudice). Even when it comes to the issue of Health reform it seem to break down to racial sides. I went to one white church in the area and the pastor preached that is was a sin for Obama to spend money on Healthcare if the money wasn't there because he was robbing the next generation. Then I went back to the Black church and they said that it is everyones duty to care for those less fortunate and our duty to care for those who are sick. They (the black church) stressed the point that no nation has ever been punished for doing for the poor and caring for the sick. I believe if the two sides were working and worshiping together they would be able to more spiritually see each others side. -----The controversy even arises in the black church as to the fact that Ellen .G White is white LOL and when I heard that if really gave me a chuckle. I believe that much of the problems of the church could be eliminated if people would simply learn to worship together and love their neighbor as themselves.
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I agree that worshipping together could help to break down some of the mutual prejudice and supicion. As to EGW being white, have you not heard that the church admitted she was part black? I have been hearing that for a couple of years. It was kinda sad because it was like a shameful admission.
No, I was not refering to you, I was making a general abservation of what I see erupting all over the place, and it is alarming.
Now we see normal public policy decisions being debated with the race of those debating taking precedence over the content of the subject. White people who disagree with Obama on matters of policy are slurred as racist, and black people who disagree with him are called Uncle Toms. And then there are a few white people who will attack anything Obama does on the basis that he is black. In debate, the person who first gives up discussion of the subject and proceeds to attack the other person and call them names, is assumed to have no more substance to add to the debate. That is how I view what is taking place across America now.
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Now I understand just by watching these posts on why there are black conferences. Some must think and act like Sebastian. His ideas protrays that he is watching what everyone else does and is quite confused. He is still fighting the chips. He is not self educated into true belief. It seems it is most important to watch what is going on in other Adventist lives then just being responsible to ones self. But of course how can you get truth while wine bibbling.
It is obvious that a mind is seared when all options both religious and political are not weighed. What else can you expect from watching JUST cnn. But on the other hand whether Sebastian believes it or not the Obama Acorn baby is tumbling. There were many blacks at the 9/12 although they do not want to admit and there was also as much there as the inauguration of Obama. The pictures show the same.
You fail to understand that it was Barrack in community service to form the Acorn corruption. Now I see the teachers union also gave to $1.5 million to Acorn and now we will watch the connections of Obamas affiliated organizations and the fitting in of his cronies to their destruction. All it will take is a little more time of investagation of where the money went. But the sealed shut will never get it............Sorta like the the deal about understanding the "paternity test" they just do not get it. You can't explain why it is not excepted by the courts. It was not done properly, there is no proof of anything until done by the law and not just getting flubbed up. IF Dr. Day did the wrong test that is another problem but so far nothing is proven because it was the wrong test proceedures that are only done by court RULES..... But guess what they still don't get it. Let them believe what ever they want. Fact is not found yet!! and the same with political facts some false and some true. But the American backbone will stand up to this robbery.
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Btw Tinka, some of of the finest, most generous, understanding and savvy people I know drink wine. Some of the most judgemental, vicious, ugly, ignorant people I know are not only Adventists, they don't drink wine. Wine has absolutely nothing to do with a person's intelligence and value. Jesus made and drank wine. Who are we to judge people for doing what he did? Furthermore, associating with, and seeking out the company of sinners is Biblical Christianity. Avoiding and valuing people in any way as being less than your self because of their supposed sins, cultures, and beliefs goes completely against everything Christ taught and lived. He put forth a person who was culturally "inferior" and religiously a heathen as being closer to himself and heaven than those who kept the law when he told the story of the good Samaritan. Romans 9 is an interesting chapter to read when we start getting judgemental about people who don't live and believe as we do.
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Now I understand just by watching these posts on why there are black conferences. Some must think and act like Sebastian. His ideas protrays that he is watching what everyone else does and is quite confused. He is still fighting the chips. He is not self educated into true belief. It seems it is most important to watch what is going on in other Adventist lives then just being responsible to ones self. But of course how can you get truth while wine bibbling.
It is obvious that a mind is seared when all options both religious and political are not weighed. What else can you expect from watching JUST cnn. But on the other hand whether Sebastian believes it or not the Obama Acorn baby is tumbling. There were many blacks at the 9/12 although they do not want to admit and there was also as much there as the inauguration of Obama. The pictures show the same.
You fail to understand that it was Barrack in community service to form the Acorn corruption. Now I see the teachers union also gave to $1.5 million to Acorn and now we will watch the connections of Obamas affiliated organizations and the fitting in of his cronies to their destruction. All it will take is a little more time of investagation of where the money went. But the sealed shut will never get it............Sorta like the the deal about understanding the "paternity test" they just do not get it. You can't explain why it is not excepted by the courts. It was not done properly, there is no proof of anything until done by the law and not just getting flubbed up. IF Dr. Day did the wrong test that is another problem but so far nothing is proven because it was the wrong test proceedures that are only done by court RULES..... But guess what they still don't get it. Let them believe what ever they want. Fact is not found yet!! and the same with political facts some false and some true. But the American backbone will stand up to this robbery.
Tinka,
I agree with you sabastian is a very deceived man. I don't really know Sebastian but I will take your word for it if you say he is the reason for black and white conferences. What do you mean "he is fighting his own chips?" Here is a question for you and a riddle. What word do you get when you take Tinka and add an S to the (beginning) of it? I say that not because you are that kinda person but there are people like that and obviously Sabastian is one of those people.
Obama's wife has real class in that she helps the misfortunate and worked at some soup kitchens. I could send you a picture of it if you would care to see. I think I will now recline in my chair and have a sip of wine just to calm the day down. Maybe I can schedule to go to the Whitehouse and sit on the lawn with Obama and have a beer. Tinka, if you prefer I will put it in a glass and call it wine. Tinka, do you drink? Because if you don't I find it hard to account for some of your post (smile) just kidding, I think.
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George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink :ROFL: Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine? You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....
and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.
I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind. George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!
and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background. An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white. You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!! While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....
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The president without a country
By Pat Boone
"We're no longer a Christian nation." - President Barack Obama, June 2007
"America has been arrogant." - President Barack Obama
"After 9/11, America didn't always live up to her ideals."- President Barack Obama
"You might say that America is a Muslim nation."- President Barack Obama, Egypt 2009
Thinking about these and other statements made by the man who wears the title of president. I keep wondering what country he believes he's president of.
In one of my very favorite stories, Edward Everett Hale's "The Man without a Country," a young Army lieutenant named Philip Nolan stands condemned for treason during the Revolutionary War, having come under the influence of Aaron Burr. When the judge asks him if he wishes to say anything before sentence is passed, young Nolan defiantly exclaims, "Damn the United States ! I wish I might never hear of the United States again!"
The stunned silence in the courtroom is palpable, pulsing. After a long pause, the judge soberly says to the angry lieutenant: "You have just pronounced your own sentence. You will never hear of the United States again... I sentence you to spend the rest of your life at sea, on one or another of this country's naval vessels - under strict orders that no one will ever speak to you again about the country you have just cursed."
And so it was. Philip Nolan was taken away and spent the next 40 years at sea, never hearing anything but an occasional slip of the tongue about America. The last few pages of the story, recounting Nolan's dying hours in his small stateroom - now turned into a shrine to the country he fore swore - never fail to bring me to tears. And I find my own love for this dream, this miracle called America , refreshed and renewed. I know how blessed and unique we are.
But reading and hearing the audacious, shocking statements of the man who was recently elected our president - a young black man living the impossible dream of millions of young Americans, past and present, black and white - I want to ask him, "Just what country do you think you're president of?"
You surely can't be referring to the United States of America , can you? America is emphatically a Christian nation, and has been from its inception! Seventy percent of her citizens identify themselves as Christian. The Declaration of Independence and our Constitution were framed, written and ratified by Christians. It's because this was, and is, a nation built on and guided by Judeo-Christian biblical principles that you, sir, have had the inestimable privilege of being elected her president.
You studied law at Harvard, didn't you, sir? You taught constitutional law in Chicago ? Did you not ever read the statement of John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and an author of the landmark "Federalist Papers": "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers - and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation - to select and prefer Christians for their rulers"?
In your studies, you surely must have read the decision of the Supreme Court in 1892: "Our lives and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian."
Did your professors have you skip over all the high-court decisions right up till the mid 1900's that echoed and reinforced these views and intentions? Did you pick up the history of American jurisprudence only in 1947, when for the first time a phrase coined by Thomas Jefferson about a "wall of separation between church and state" was used to deny some specific religious expression - contrary to Jefferson' s intent with that statement?
Or, wait a minute . were your ideas about America 's Christianity formed during the 20 years you were a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ under your pastor, Jeremiah Wright? Is that where you got the idea that " America is no longer a Christian nation"? Is this where you, even as you came to call yourself a Christian, formed the belief that " America has been arrogant"?
Even if that's the understandable explanation of your damning of your country and accusing the whole nation (not just a few military officials trying their best to keep more Americans from being murdered by jihadists) of "not always living up to her ideals," how did you come up with the ridiculous, alarming notion that we might be "considered a Muslim nation"?
Is it because there are some 2 million or more Muslims living here, trying to be good Americans? Out of a current population of over 300 million, 70 percent of whom are Christians? Does that make us, by any rational definition, a "Muslim nation"?
Why are we not, then, a "Chinese nation"? A "Korean nation"? Even a "Vietnamese nation"? There are even more of these distinct groups in America than Muslims. And if the distinction you're trying to make is a religious one, why is America not "a Jewish nation"? There's actually a case to be made for the latter, because our Constitution - and the success of our Revolution and founding - owe a deep debt to our Jewish brothers.
Have you stopped to think what an actual Muslim America would be like? Have you ever really spent much time in Iran? Even in Egypt? You, having been instructed in Islam as a kid at a Muslim school in Indonesia and saying you still love the call to evening prayers, can surely picture our nation founded on the Quran, not the Judeo-Christian Bible, and living under Shariah law. Can't you? You do recall Muhammad's directives [Surah 9:5,73] to "break the cross" and "kill the infidel"?
It seems increasingly and painfully obvious that you are more influenced by your upbringing and questionable education than most suspected. If you consider yourself the president of a people who are "no longer Christian," who have "failed to live up to our ideals," who "have been arrogant," and might even be "considered Muslim" - you are president of a country most Americans don't recognize.
Could it be you are a president without a country?
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George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink :ROFL: Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine? You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....
and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.
I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind. George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!
and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background. An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white. You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!! While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....
Tinka,
Thanks for your eloquent thought, you inspire me to be just like you. Obama is not acorn just like you do not speak for the Adventist Church. And I can see your venom against me but why would you lump George with being a terrorist too. Really, Tinka a little wine doeth like a medicine. You need to drink wine for medicinal purposes it would help your condition if you did.
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You are very confused with the meaning of wine. George's implication of this is people must be ok in using good judgement if they use it better then people who don't. In bibical days the fresh squeezed fruit was called "new wine". and we should end this. Open your eyes to different roads and then choose in stead of only seeing, walking, in only one. I do not have prejudice, I am not jealous, I am not racist, I am far from perfect, I am interested in welfare of people and what has been done to them by deceit and deceivement. I do not care what MO looks like but look at back ground of where their coming from. It is a duty, and honor and priviledge to live in this US. People that do not know what is going on should not even vote. It is better not to vote if you cannot do it with at least a good try at discerning good judgement of character. Many people were also not watching including myself when GW was elected. I was barn sided by sympathy for the oppressed and tortured people and my only thought was to vote again to have it stopped. In the back ground the only thing I see wrong with GW was now in backsight he could have stopped the gas robbery, but now i realize he was in the oil people at least one of them when his attention to do something about the Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae, Barney Frank's self centered and unethical monetary involvements ---it was too late and therefore gets the blame but now it is being steam pressured into infinity and the people are now able to see the corruption through all organizations that the money has been funneled into. They are starting to follow the dollar. It helped no poor, it helped the corruption become more corrupt. Then there is the BO comunity service job started way back when the brilliant young used his talent to form an organization to help corrupt the voting to swing the elections when all the voting machines were being redone. Therefore it was premeditated for future trauma of the US. It had nothing to do with color and the crazy other president called Carter that started color difference that helped egg it on. Are you going to be able to be forced to pay 13% more of your income for forced insurance? These details will come at a surprise as you think it is all gov paid.
I do not know how poor people will do it. The small businesses will not be able to pay it for employees. Therefore the more jobs will go as they are fast fleeting now with the uncertainity of what is coming. If it comes, and the opposition does not win out, there will finally be no jobs except what the cronies got. We were in business and it was tough as it was as you pay out double for each employee for their benefits.
One thing I do know too, that you cannot get to heaven by justifying, all sins that we are told to obstain from and then come up with the deal, well I did not understand it. The fact is that one does not want to understand it.
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First of all, Tinka, I want to thank you for you much improved tone. It is much appreciated. I am now happy to respond to your post.
Princessdi
I read the article, I am not sure I can believe that because I do not know the author's agenda for writing it. I do not know if the author might be black and this just another one of those history tales that can bring on the accomplished effects that it is portraying. In fact that is the very thing I am talking about to finally let history lie down. I am not saying this did not happen but then I would have to have more proof that it actually did. It sort of amazes me that anyone that believes the church did this that they would actually stay in the church and try to teach that particular church to other people. I know and realize all the injustice that has been done but when one cannot overcome it and still live it over and over I do not see how that can help anyone overcome the entanglement of Satan and his tool. This has been one of his greatest feats. And yet when the Black race spills their oppression out they intern feel and think horrible disgrace because America tried to stop the oppression of another race. I just do not get it. There was those that tried to stop the oppression of the blacks too. That is why being an old yankee woman I felt the war was needed. Especially seeing and visualizing the terror of death and oppression to the people in the east. Can you give any reason for this difference.
First of all, for us to remember and even talk about the horrors that have been done against Africans Americans, does not mean we are stuck. Offenders ofter don't want to hear about their past behavior. They are usually in rush for you to "get over it". i can also tell you that it might be brought up a lot less if America could not easily fall into the same old habits, as there are many who would welcome that revival.
Another reason it is still discussed, is that those times had far reaching effects on the African American community. Not anything that could not be fixed, but far too many of the in equities have not. We are told that now that we are "equal' we need to to like everyone else, get over it, and pul ourselves up by our boot straps. Problem is, many of us are starting without boots, let along boot straps....and there is still the subtle(and some not so subtle) racism that pervades our country within housing and employment. I can understand your confusion, because it is only history for you, however, it is heritage for us. That is the difference in a nutshell. Also, do you really believe tha Adventist Review would print such a story, if it were not true? The author could write all day, but the Review thought is important and truth enough to print for the World Wide church to read.
You have misunderstood me entirely in my beliefs and knowing this tool is from the devil I "will not acknowledge it". It is evil. I want no part of it. I do not like it brought up. It is a way of life that is not good for anyone. I consider all human birth the creation of God until they try to mess it up. I am not going to be accountable for bringing it up and bringing it up. It is the same thing with people that love to display the cross, wear the cross, --It is sadness, it is heartwrenching, it is to know what was done to Jesus that suffered on it. It is too hard to bear. The land it happened on is not holy. but yet made money off when that land and people do not even believe Jesus is the Son. How ridiculous. So is racism. But people will not let it die so all can live in harmony. But yet I know that will only be in a perfect world. I am responsible only for my self and therefore I choose not to do what I know Jesus never wanted. It is history and yes I know there are still red necks out there. But it makes it worse when the recism changes from white to black!!!
Once again, Tinka, I underestand your fear. you are afraid of a black President who will give a chance, housing, jobs, health insurance to those who are disinfranchaised in these areas. The fear comes from the fact that these people have been deemed as lazy, etc. and that is why they don't have these things. It's true, some are no good, lazy, and not even trying. However, there are many more who are silently trying to make their way, and they deserve the break, that will allow them to pull themselves up. They will work for what they need, if allowed to work. They would go to the Dr. long before they become critical, if they could, etc. But some are so afraid tht this may help some that they have deemed "undeserving' that you are willing to toss all to the wolves and go for the survival of the fittest, which is not fair at all whem a significant percentage start out with a handicap.
also I am not a perfect person either. But I am not going to lose heaven because I did not take the time to read, understand and cherish the last message given to a last day people. I know there is a type of sin that we constantly regret and just about die inside with it but then there is intentional sin when we know beyond doubt. Some of the posting i have seen on here is much intentional and justification of why they do it especially when we have been shown the reasons why we should not go there. Some seem trivial and yes i have respect for truth only.
As far as the article of an educated women speaking the truth and as a person that sees facts before belief this woman has her facts from her extreme intelligence of actual history from all the top college of the nation she is quite remarkable as God has kept her mind clear from the screwed up professors that taught liberalism. Her mind stayed focused. Now if you want to hear a screwed up person look at the next czar that obama has chosen. We all have something to worry about now.
Once agian, Tinka, you believe that because her conclusions agree with yours. I know this because you assume I do not have the same knowledge, because I disagree with your. Once again, you mistakenly assime that everyone who reads the same information will arrive at the same conclusion.
I know what bills are going down, I read them. I have the bills sent and know what they say. My husband and I both study them with him being very well educated in Environmental law and business. That is why one congressman yelled out. You lie. Unless you read and do that one cannot possibly know what is going down your just listening to talk. Sort of like at times when i see you finally read something and then comment as you just did on other post then I know you took another look to your surprise.
It does seem like the time of trouble is coming as many are completely unaware the forming of the opposition. I compare it to what I have read in our books. I know what has been done to us by government corruptions first hand. It is deadly, I know the agenda, we know some of the politicians, we know the control, we know how it works. It came from both parties and now we know what individuals are for the people and which are the ones against whats right for America. The whole conglomerations is almost gone and no turning back. Anyone that works for the people are hacked. The evil is becoming more and more powerful. If you do not believe this you are wasting too much time not to educate yourself of facts before you speak.
I know that the bible says that God will allow satan to do his worst. The key part of that is that "God will allow". I just remember that Who is in control, and I don't have to worry about what satan is doing. I didn't say I was unaware of it or even that he is not doing his worst, but that I don't have to worry about it, fear anything that he does, because if I am in relationship with Jesus Christ I don't have to fear anything......"God does not send the spirit of fear".........."...The Lord is the strength of my life.....of whom then shall I be afraid". I dont' have to fear because I accept the sacrifice of Jesus for my sins, and realize that He is already victorious....therefore making me "more than a conqueror". Why would I fear this particular created being, when I know fromt he Bible that he can do nothing except that God allows him?
For instance you finally decided that this episode is from very strange people. It is not only strange but enough evidence that it is totally corrupt. Then there is the justifiers of the antics of the paternity test. Believe it, you got it right when you finally got how it happened. Then they came back on to justify all the shenanigans. The most import fact on this Di is this. If it was christian, if it was all in according with God's works IT WOULD NOT ANY OF IT HAPPENED AND NONE OF THIS WOULD BE GOING ON. But it is and I have followed all the documents since it started then after 2 years made comments of total disgust of misuse of funds and what is worse was the 'Swaggart replicas, while others protect. Most of them are as flaky as pie. There is nothing anyone can do to justify any of this. Everyone that has a good reason for why it all happened and what manner it happened is just plain out of touch with the right side of things. Personal business you think, Well it is public business, because it is public money stole with lies. IF it was you how many :horse: could you feed comfortably. I wonder if you helped feed them too like i did? I know how much 4 would cost and did it for our children. After much thought, it was time wasted, clubs, money, work and feed and hay. It was play time but it was our own money. Had to be on long trip today from Chicago to home and thought I might make some things a little clearer but I positively know my talent is not in speaking as clear as I would like for the correct understanding. But guess my nature is straight forward without the tack and now old. How is that for an example of justification?
See, now this is where we agree. I, too, have been following this(not by choice) since the beginning. In fact, it was Danny who dragged BSDA in by coming there to lie and in an attempt to intimidate. I believe him to be just as crooked as they come. Do I believe that God gave him the 3ABN ministry...yes.......do I believe that Danny abused that ministry.....yep!...Do I believe that Danny and Brandi wer having an affair long before the end of he and Linda's marraige and Linda foolishly provided a rather convenient excuse for his to leave their marrige with an "advantage".......absolutely!........and here's the kicker, do I believe that God gave Danny this ministry knowing all along that he more than likely would make the wrong choices......yes indeedee! Therefore, God has a plan for this. He knew Danny did wrong when he thought to do wrong. I don't say we are not to acknowledge or even question the wrong doings at 3ABN because it is about collecting donated funds and accountability. Danny/3ABN should be accountable because they promised/pledge somethings when approaching contributors(partners,ete. whatever they are called) for support. However, you all croosed thed line. Danny, I am sure is still involved in 3ABN, but what did the paternity of Brandi's youngest daughter have to do with the price of rice in China? Then even if you believe that was in order, why did you all insist on a process that would further trauatize the child? Dr. Day and the rest of you really did want pictures of the minor child to post on the internet. That does not seem off to you? No matter the circumstances of her birth,the child is innocent in all of this. It is not the people who I believe are strange the this entire situation. I still tryna figure out the parking lot move.......with the entire campus of 3ABN at his disposal, Danny could do no better than that, is just amazing to me.
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Tinka, Tinka, Tinka....put down that pitcher of haterade and step back! Michelle, really turns your eyes green, doesn't she? Ok and FYI, Serena Williams is one half of a dynamic ladies tennis sister duo, they also happen to be African American. you should at least tryto to keep up, to you can follow the conversation.
Here ya go! http://www.serenawilliams.com/ (http://www.serenawilliams.com/)
Sabastian,
It is appearing more and more that you do not have American roots or your parents have raised you with this evil racism that will get you no where. I do not even know who Serena is or heard of her. If she is on the tv my only interest is some of Hope channel and the news. You must watch the rest of the garbage and therefore that is why you are not educated in other matters.
As far as your hang up on jealousy, she has nothing and I say nothing to be jealous of. She could not even carry out her previous employment. She is ruthless and domineering and incredibly funny dressed. I imagine it does take a lot of money to find a designer to camouflage her funny apparel for her back yard and make up. I saw her without and she is no better then the rest of us. She is no beauty, body wise or facial with her jaw that sticks out farther then her whole face. and to be more spacific I consider beauty in refinment, goodness, cultured, meek, humble,poise, education and manners. I thought MIke Huckabee wife was the beauty. Check out MO education. It is no better then Obamas. Did you realize that JC Pickens had to tell BO that 18 wheelers could not be run by battery. Te HE Te He. Time is moving on and more corruption is unfolding by the day.
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The reason the conferences have not "blended" is because there has only been one option suggested, which is that the white conferences basically absorb the black conference, causing everyone now working at the black conference to become unemployed. To my knowledge, there is no option to actually "blend" by choosing the best from each group for every position in the new blended conference. However, for the most part President Paulsen has jsut rename it cultural diversity and has no intention of changing it. i can see where it would be a difficult thing, because it would mean a huge loss of employment in every Union in NAD except PUC.
Not to mention that the conditions still exists within the church. Afterall, so far they have written at leasst three articles in the Review about accepting President Obama and we still have people who believe as Tinka does.
I just watched Cnn tonight and the were saying that a large number of those participating in the tea party have expressed racist attitudes especially when it comes to blacks, they CNN seemed to say it as though that was a suprise. As I have said in the past a lot of what is motivating protest and the like has a lot to do with the fact that Obama is black. I have never implied that everyone is prejudice but I am saying that there is a larger group of prejudice people than we want to acknowledge. And some are prejudice and don't even know it, that goes for blacks and whites. The tea party members are 99.9 percent white. ----------- It is a shame that we have separate conferences I am not sure why the white conference wont just blend with the black conference.
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Unfortunately, christian, the regional conferences were created for the purposes of segregation. Blacks of that time were already getting the message unabated. The existing white Adventist totally believe that there should be black work. However, they were shortsighted and didn't realize that it would mean blacks actually attending their churches, going to their hospitals, belonging to the same confences and joining in such numbers that would soon "expect" some type of representation. They definitely were not ready for any kind of black leadership. So when you have stories like that of Sis Byard(sp), and others who mistaken thought that they could go to an Adventist hospital because they were Adventist, showing up at church, the conference office or ABC like they were equals..............Naw, they needed their own stuff....separate, but equal. They definitely took a page from society(more commonly known as "the world") on that one.
Wrong, the black conferences were not created for the purpose of segregation, but rather so that the Black race in a time of racial prejudice could receive the message unabated. The point I was trying to make is the other nationalities already have their own conference, howbeit they are in there prospective countries. And I don't know if you are referring to me or not when you say "this perpetual obsession with race and race baiting either." As you stated you come from another country so remember that when you say statements that refer to your perceived motivation for such said conversation. I do believe that in the time we live in it is most ashamed that our churches still without justification continue to be segregated for the most part. However it is not just indicative of the Seventhday Adventist church in America, but all denominations, churches and conferences across the entire United States. But among the professed remnant it is most appalling, in my opinion. Often, even in our political arena it seems that when it come to the Black and White race they seem to draw lines primarily on the basis of race in many instances. ---- I have attended the Black and White churches and have had the unique experience to have both sides talking about each other and it is ashamed. You can go into most white Adventist Churches and find prejudice to the extreme especially down south. For the most part I have found the Black churches more ready and able to except the white member and often eager for them to work. Whereas I have found that the white Church members to be suspicious of blacks and behind close doors afraid, and often try to limit their (blacks) influence. This has just been my personal experience. I know of many instances where if blacks come into a church in any great number the white members will move to another church. ------Is there a need to agitate this issue among those in the American division (absolutely) because it is evident that many a white brethren and black brethren will lose their salvation because of it (prejudice). Even when it comes to the issue of Health reform it seem to break down to racial sides. I went to one white church in the area and the pastor preached that is was a sin for Obama to spend money on Healthcare if the money wasn't there because he was robbing the next generation. Then I went back to the Black church and they said that it is everyones duty to care for those less fortunate and our duty to care for those who are sick. They (the black church) stressed the point that no nation has ever been punished for doing for the poor and caring for the sick. I believe if the two sides were working and worshiping together they would be able to more spiritually see each others side. -----The controversy even arises in the black church as to the fact that Ellen .G White is white LOL and when I heard that if really gave me a chuckle. I believe that much of the problems of the church could be eliminated if people would simply learn to worship together and love their neighbor as themselves.
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Right George. it was one of the best kept secrets of Adventism. EGW was half black......hmmmmm sounds familiar....maybe we better not say that too loud.....LOL!!! However, truth is far toomany blacks over theyears have looked at her pics and said......."Hey she looks like Auntie Sadie..........". As a budding hair stylist, I wondered by her hair was alsys braided, and not necessarily in a way that white women wore braided hair either. As a professional hairstylist of over 30 years, I no longer wonder about her hairstyle of choice, or those suspect nose(no I don't buy the baseball or rock explanation) and curly edges(if you want clarification, I can give it in PM, It is too much for an onboard response). It was Elder Charles dudley who wrote the book regarding her heritage. I did look on the internet, but found only articles that refute his claims.
My suggestion is that if you have never been to either of her homes, you might make the trek real soon....i see a future clouded in smoke.........LOL!! Just kidding.
I agree that worshipping together could help to break down some of the mutual prejudice and supicion. As to EGW being white, have you not heard that the church admitted she was part black? I have been hearing that for a couple of years. It was kinda sad because it was like a shameful admission.
No, I was not refering to you, I was making a general abservation of what I see erupting all over the place, and it is alarming.
Now we see normal public policy decisions being debated with the race of those debating taking precedence over the content of the subject. White people who disagree with Obama on matters of policy are slurred as racist, and black people who disagree with him are called Uncle Toms. And then there are a few white people who will attack anything Obama does on the basis that he is black. In debate, the person who first gives up discussion of the subject and proceeds to attack the other person and call them names, is assumed to have no more substance to add to the debate. That is how I view what is taking place across America now.
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Princesdi,
Just caught on the news who Serena is. I am just not into sports of any kind. I hate the competition that tries to make a name in fame better then anyone else. It simply does not appeal to me to be most important things in life. I have better things to do. I just don't see how I can get everything done that I want to accomplish before my time is up.
can you even begin to tell me what I would be jealous of?? The only thing I respect from someone else is wisdom they have that I don't. It never ends on what you can learn or be taught. So far you cannot give me any flamboyant records that MO has done that can convince me other wise then her biggie on America. I do look at her as a human being and then because she is in public office for the "time being" she is under scrutiny from all. Her mouth keeps her in much seclusion for her mistakes already. It's been embarrassment for the administration.
Like I say--from these posts I've read and the internal problem of black and white churches, I now understand more fully. Black and whites that do not have the "attitude problem" do Mingle with no problem. The leaders see that racism is not going to stop the same as these attitudes on here have prevailed into senselessness. So there hands are pretty much tied to the advasaries of ongoing racism. Most whites of the church don't want it an neither do most of the Blacks. It is now the minority that keeps it hanging in there. and again it is the tool of the devil. Quit putting the blame on the whites. Here is fact that I can also relate too. and maybe the leadership know this too as a problem. I can tell of a mostly white church that had some wonderful African American members. We had more and more coming into the church from a larger city. It was a church with open arms. Had some medical dr. and etc. but pretty soon in came the drums, loud rapping, fast jaz and moving about. Hmmmm, wonder why the whites left????? all in the name of music???? and the preacher left. It was take over time instead of just mingling. No more time for SSchool just a place to jive and give talent shows for some fame I guess....
what can the conferences do about that? Not a thing as it is in want of balance....
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and so what if EGW was half black? What concern was it of God's as he also chose a mulatto before Ellen to give the message but he chickened out. Maybe if I recall his name it might have been something like (fay??) did you know that? It is quite strange that EGW does mention the race of him with no pretence of worry doing it. But also in the same pretence why did she not give her background any different then she did. Race did not seem to be a problem with her. You guys come up with the strangest storys and really need to put your proof of facts out before you speak it. So now You are calling EGW a liar about her accident huh. Yes I can now see why churches separate!!!! There is no time that you can go look for evil that you will not find it. In all her writings, she does not fabricate in the least. Has it even occured back in those days that even the old time soaps used on hair made hair kink up and brittle?? and now you got someone writing on their whims. I wonder with the Whites finances how they even were able to buy or make soap?
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Great minds, Tinka. I almost brought up the fact that most Africans tend to join the white churches when they come over to the states. I can understand that in that along with the SDA message, there is a large does of Euro indoctrination given by the missionaries. The church is pretty consistent that anything of African culture is from the pits of hell, and used to call demons, so when African memebers attend black churches who are practicing Adventist and also embrace the music, etc of the their African culture, then they are not comfortable there. So it makes perfect sense for them to join white churches. They can be sure not to find anything African there.
Tinka, I think I missed Michelle's public comments which have been an embarrassment to her husband's administration, and he sure has missed them because he is more than proud to put her int he spotlight anytime he can.
Princesdi,
Just caught on the news who Serena is. I am just not into sports of any kind. I hate the competition that tries to make a name in fame better then anyone else. It simply does not appeal to me to be most important things in life. I have better things to do. I just don't see how I can get everything done that I want to accomplish before my time is up.
can you even begin to tell me what I would be jealous of?? The only thing I respect from someone else is wisdom they have that I don't. It never ends on what you can learn or be taught. So far you cannot give me any flamboyant records that MO has done that can convince me other wise then her biggie on America. I do look at her as a human being and then because she is in public office for the "time being" she is under scrutiny from all. Her mouth keeps her in much seclusion for her mistakes already. It's been embarrassment for the administration.
Like I say--from these posts I've read and the internal problem of black and white churches, I now understand more fully. Black and whites that do not have the "attitude problem" do Mingle with no problem. The leaders see that racism is not going to stop the same as these attitudes on here have prevailed into senselessness. So there hands are pretty much tied to the advasaries of ongoing racism. Most whites of the church don't want it an neither do most of the Blacks. It is now the minority that keeps it hanging in there. and again it is the tool of the devil. Quit putting the blame on the whites. Here is fact that I can also relate too. and maybe the leadership know this too as a problem. I can tell of a mostly white church that had some wonderful African American members. We had more and more coming into the church from a larger city. It was a church with open arms. Had some medical dr. and etc. but pretty soon in came the drums, loud rapping, fast jaz and moving about. Hmmmm, wonder why the whites left????? all in the name of music???? and the preacher left. It was take over time instead of just mingling. No more time for SSchool just a place to jive and give talent shows for some fame I guess....
what can the conferences do about that? Not a thing as it is in want of balance....
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Yes, I knew about God giving the message to the black man before EGW. that is old news. No, Ia m not saying that she was lying about the accident, but it is not why her nose is sha[ed as it is. She probably did not mention her heritage because that would mean she and James were in a biracial marriage(amd they were).....very dangerous in those days and definitely would have gotten in the way of the acceptance of her message by the church. Remember before she wrote about it, they wern't even thinking about evangelizing blakcs.
and so what if EGW was half black? What concern was it of God's as he also chose a mulatto before Ellen to give the message but he chickened out. Maybe if I recall his name it might have been something like (fay??) did you know that? It is quite strange that EGW does mention the race of him with no pretence of worry doing it. But also in the same pretence why did she not give her background any different then she did. Race did not seem to be a problem with her. You guys come up with the strangest storys and really need to put your proof of facts out before you speak it. So now You are calling EGW a liar about her accident huh. Yes I can now see why churches separate!!!! There is no time that you can go look for evil that you will not find it. In all her writings, she does not fabricate in the least. Has it even occured back in those days that even the old time soaps used on hair made hair kink up and brittle?? and now you got someone writing on their whims. I wonder with the Whites finances how they even were able to buy or make soap?
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Actually, it was design to get them the message (blacks) the message and I have read what is written. While it was true that prejudice was a motivation behind it (prejudice) had slowed the advancement of the message to blacks and even funding to their evangelism.---- Now Ellen G. White would counseled a black man not to marry a white lady but find someone of his own race. So now they want us to believe that she was a product of what she counseled against. Now as far as Ellen G. White being Black I don't believe that, the Adventist Church often Generates stories to substantiate themselves. The Adventist church is growing predominately in the African nations and nations of color, all of a sudden Ellen is Black, I don't buy it. They have even changed some of her writting edited and subtracted. I have read extensively what she has written and some of it (what they say) does not correspond as to what she wrote.
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George,
It all depends on whether the wine is fermented or not. All your stars just went down the drink :ROFL: Really now, you do not expect me to think you are in the right place on Advent talk do you? Why are you here? To convince Adventists that it is ok to drink fermented wine? You have a very Keen sense of writing all in the right places with supposedly all the right answers with stars mounting up but lacking none but one. You also mentioned being very liberal so that means to me you sorta make your own rules on what to believe and how....
and Sebastian as I will not call you Christian and if your American you just might have a whim and just might know what I am referring to, as you are at the furthest point one can go. I would venture to say that you do not understand American lingo and statements or you would understand the word "chips" used in such phases. George has already admitted not born here but a big traveler. So what are ya doing messing in US stuff or even care let alone come on a chat place of Adventists? I suppose you believe that Jesus asked for the fermented stuff too when he said I thirst on the cross.
I can picture your big fat self setting back in that big fat chair sipping your big fat wine coolers, you are great in painting your own picture, no wonder you think MO is so preeeettttttyyyyy while your big fat mouth is drooling. If fact you obviously are possessed with her. Maybe you ought to try out while sitting in their yard drinking beer as I saw ole Barrack giving a young girl a look that was so obvious shown on tv that they captured with no doubt about the look on a lot less behind. George Bush has a picture helping out also the same way. What wonderful political moves. She is an elitist showing off!!!
and the "chips" are referring to the Black chip you got on your shoulders!! Now you can take that in different ways with different cultural background. An American would know what I was referring too. You got a chip on your shoulder of being a racist against white. You make up your own stories and go to your own racist churches. For all I know you guys could be terriorists! Ya got the lingo for it!! While your sitting in your big fattness watch Obama's baby go down!! videos of Acorn are tremondous truth --out smarted by two young Americans just having some fun.....Ho, Ho, Ho....
So I get it Tinka, I am not a Christian unless I fit your definition of one? So instead I am Sabastian because you say it. Well I will not say you are not a Christian even though you don't always act like one. Even though you are jealous of the lovely Michelle Obama and jealous even of their children yet your faults are between you and God until you have to sign my check and then I will make the judgement as to whether you are a Stinker or not. You chastise me for looking at other church members and then you talked about the same thing from your perspective of the "blacks" coming to take over. Wow I guess we should all live by your standard of truth because obviously you know it all and anyone that is not up to your standard is not a Christian.
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Sebastion, :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: Boy are you in the red hot zone.
Your dealy beloved and her husband gave $800,000 of their campaign to their baby Acorn to bring em on home. THE CORRUPTED WAY!!! it's coming one way or the other. If ole Reid gives us the nucular blast watch what happens next. How ya like the videos by now. How can you even think like you do if you saw the corruption in the videos. This is what poor people do when they can get nothing else and are used for their lack of education and lo and behold look who oppressed them and taught them.....the brilliant community service leader years ago. Their own kind, for money they became corrupt and teach the corruption. Now that is the exact pattern of extreme evidence of how the ole devil uses to destruction. When will you wake up! It ain't color it is using lack of education against them brought on by the lying democrats that have always oppressed them for education for their own politics. Except for the Martin Luther and the Kennedy Brothers. They depend on it and then lie through their teeth what all they are going to do for the poor and use coin phases that hits their buttons for the corrupt vote. I just want to say one thing good about the democrats. Years ago they were right on the money. This is now not republican or democrats the way they were years ago. We needed the old way but that is entirely gone now. This is just straight evil and the ones catching on are hanging on to the merry go round for dear life for the love of their country. It is almost a sure thing if the Reid nucular blast takes effect when the majority don't want it it will probably bring on the one the new world order or one world power. I just saw some more movement where BO is appointing himself to something in the UN for security of which he has no business doing. just like his 32 czars. I have the documents on it and can put it on here if I have to. People just do not know how it is happening. Believe me it is bigger then your dream of Obamacare.
I am sure the White estate know what all this story is about. I do not believe it either any more then if you go on internet and there if not fully grounded they will convince you of all their agenda..just like she said they would in the end. and here it is....I read most of it and debated with the likes of one of those devils. and realized a mind set does not change once you give up truth or except it in any form. It is too late.
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Um, actually I never said that I was not born here. I was. But I was raised elsewhere, and have spent a large portion of my life in other countries.
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Oh George your still so likeable. I am just not a person that straddles nothing that I can help. but I am not saying I haven't been put into horrible positions and forced. I hate this sort of thing and I know perfectly well how the lack of education can force the issues with people that try to survive. The more i learn the madder I get as I know how people are being hacked out of eternity. Our family can be included with finding correct info when too late. Our trials are many as we were honest but deceived till they had what we worked for our whole life. We felt totally rejected even from God. We just could not understand it. Now we do. We are not the only ones that this horric trauma has happened to. Now you will see what the greenies are doing the poor Californiaians. Their farms are bare, their land made desolute, thousands and thousand out of work and now if we want what they grew we can pay another country for it. All over a stupid fish that can be extinct as far as most are concerned. The story of it all will be presented on Fox tonight as Hannity go's there to report and show the people of American what is happening and show the destitution of the land. So is the fish more important then human suffering. This is happening in America?????
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Oh George your still so likeable. I am just not a person that straddles nothing that I can help. but I am not saying I haven't been put into horrible positions and forced. I hate this sort of thing and I know perfectly well how the lack of education can force the issues with people that try to survive. The more i learn the madder I get as I know how people are being hacked out of eternity. Our family can be included with finding correct info when too late. Our trials are many as we were honest but deceived till they had what we worked for our whole life. We felt totally rejected even from God. We just could not understand it. Now we do. We are not the only ones that this horric trauma has happened to. Now you will see what the greenies are doing the poor Californiaians. Their farms are bare, their land made desolute, thousands and thousand out of work and now if we want what they grew we can pay another country for it. All over a stupid fish that can be extinct as far as most are concerned. The story of it all will be presented on Fox tonight as Hannity go's there to report and show the people of American what is happening and show the destitution of the land. So is the fish more important then human suffering. This is happening in America?????
In the end of time God is coming back to destroy them that destroy the earth. It is an iteresting thing that the peole who call themselves the people of God seem to have no care for the God given earth they by the love of God have been given. It was mans resposibility to love even the creatures of the earth. Now you see some of the most ruthless and Godless people (even though they confess to love for God) have little care for his creatures. Yet they say like they care for the people and suffering when in reality they are gluttons and want to drink beer but are to guilty to do so. They have a steady diet of Fox news and delusions about how they know God when they know him not. They also judge other people and set the standard based on what they think they know while all the time showing little love or compassion for the sinner who's job it is to tell of Gods love.
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I heard reported on the news that George bush had more czars than Obama, the actual number for Bush was 46. Interesting enough the far right loonies don't seem to understand that, instead they are constantly talking about Obama and his czars. And as far as the coming corruption goes he is simply trying to reverse the corruption of the Insurance companies and drug companies that prophit off of the suffering of others. :ROFL: Tinka and others who hold Fox news and Insanity in high esteem will figure out to late that they have been corrupted. But what they don't understand is that Michelle and President Obama have been placed for such a time as this. I am sure that in the end they will wish that Obama was back. I can only imagine if the people that they hold is high esteem ever get in office what a mess it will be. What would it be like in this country if Tinka's people (Rush Limbaugh and Insanity) got in office. They would start the corruption that would blanket the entire world and then the end would come for all.
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You listen to the corruption you want to hear. Pictures are facts. Sounds as if you are hindu or budda. God created all for man and not man for all --ya all that are stupid. Man was to be good stewards of all but it was created for his use. Your type is why all the problems. God provided and gave skins for clothes to Adam and Eve. Man is too lazy to clean the land and woods so it is on fire for California's greenies. There is scripture that if man does not use it he will destroy the wood with fire. So the greenies blame their stupidness on Gore's money making Global Warming. Gore also drinks human blood for tonic. :ROFL: Can't tell ya how I know that or you would know who I am.. :ROFL: call and ask him how one would know and see how baffled he would get!!!!
Ignorance is like a disease when intentional. You have fatal disease.
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I heard reported on the news that George bush had more czars than Obama, the actual number for Bush was 46. Interesting enough the far right loonies don't seem to understand that, instead they are constantly talking about Obama and his czars. And as far as the coming corruption goes he is simply trying to reverse the corruption of the Insurance companies and drug companies that prophit off of the suffering of others. :ROFL: Tinka and others who hold Fox news and Insanity in high esteem will figure out to late that they have been corrupted. But what they don't understand is that Michelle and President Obama have been placed for such a time as this. I am sure that in the end they will wish that Obama was back. I can only imagine if the people that they hold is high esteem ever get in office what a mess it will be. What would it be like in this country if Tinka's people (Rush Limbaugh and Insanity) got in office. They would start the corruption that would blanket the entire world and then the end would come for all.
Its funny. Both parties curse the other for doing what they themselves do. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are filled with hypocracy and foolishness.
And if it is true that the Obamas were placed here "for such a time as this" then so were the Bushes. Obama is blanketing the world with corruption just as much as Bush or anyone who Tinka holds in high esteem would. Each person and group seems to think that their brand of corrupt official will clean things up and make it all better, but corruption is corruption no matter what brand name is placed on it. Oh well, human nature requires us to idolize a person, and causes us to crave turning our lives over to someone better than ourselves. It relieves us of responsibility, and there will always be people who want to make the decisions for everyone else. A comfortable but sick little arrangement.
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Actually I have not upheld what Bush has done. It was what he did not do that hurt us. I am well aware of what each president has done. It has been a long long time on a downward spiral to ever go back to a time of peace. it just is not going to happen as the world clock ticks to finality.
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Actually I have not upheld what Bush has done. It was what he did not do that hurt us. I am well aware of what each president has done. It has been a long long time on a downward spiral to ever go back to a time of peace. it just is not going to happen as the world clock ticks to finality.
:thumbsup:
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George ;)
:purr:
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George,Tinka
Maybe you two should be married. In anycase birds of a feather flock together. It is easy to think God is not in charge but I believe God is in charge. --And it is not only what Bush did not do, the sickies voted the man in twice to continue his corruption and I am sure that Tinka is one of them. Obama could not have even been the President but for Bush Seniors catastrophy.
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Again, Christian, if God is in charge then He is the one who put George Bush into the White House and kept him there for 8 years. Yes, he was full of corruption that Obama campaigns on cleaning up, and Obama is full of just as much corruption that the next president will campaign on cleaning up, and so on and so forth.
As to marriage potential... Tinka would throw my liberal behind out and lock the door in the first few days. Lol. You put a moderate liberal and an ultra-conservative in the same house for a few days and tickets could be sold to that event. Fur, feathers, claws, teeth... Lol!
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:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :dunno:
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Again, Christian, if God is in charge then He is the one who put George Bush into the White House and kept him there for 8 years. Yes, he was full of corruption that Obama campaigns on cleaning up, and Obama is full of just as much corruption that the next president will campaign on cleaning up, and so on and so forth.
As to marriage potential... Tinka would throw my liberal behind out and lock the door in the first few days. Lol. You put a moderate liberal and an ultra-conservative in the same house for a few days and tickets could be sold to that event. Fur, feathers, claws, teeth... Lol!
God did not but Bush in anymore than he put Hitler in power, he allowed the people to make that call. But in reality it is people like Tinka that put Bush in power not once but twice. It should be obvious to her that she is the one that is deceived but somehow she continues on with Bashing Obama out of ignorance. And I disagree with you on the statement "Obama is full of just as much corruption." No, he is not Adventist the same as Nebacanezza was not Christian but time will tell if he is really corrupt as you and others state.
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Sabastian,
here is some education for ya You sound a little drunk!
http://912dc.dhwritings.com/
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Sabastian,
here is some education for ya You sound a little drunk!
http://912dc.dhwritings.com/
I am not sure why they are protesting or why you are posting, you voted for Bush twice. Where were all the protest when Bush rushed to war in Iraq?
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Sabasitian,
Its obvious you ain't all there. Your so scattered. You sound like the wine bit your brain. Your very confused and cannot post in same context of what has been posted. sooooo I will be ignoring the rest of your conversations. I already started to notcie your inconsistencies to other posters tool Your like a broken record.
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Sabasitian,
Its obvious you ain't all there. Your so scattered. You sound like the wine bit your brain. Your very confused and cannot post in same context of what has been posted. sooooo I will be ignoring the rest of your conversations. I already started to notcie your inconsistencies to other posters tool Your like a broken record.
You are right my post are scattered because the stuff you write is so scattered that it can only be responded to in like manner. You are the one confused and honestly half of the time I cannot read you post they are so unreadable. And to make matters worse you call yourself an enlightened Christian when in fact you are sooooo blind that it is frightening. You are so jealous of the Obamas that it is unreal and your hatred for Michelle Obama shows. You post links to articles that you either have not read or don't understand what you are posting. In anycase you definitely are not holding a full deck of cards. One last thing, do you know how to use spell check? It is located directly below your post; somebody has to tell you.
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:ROFL:
I type faster then you can think so yea, my fingers do get a little backwards sometimes. but if you can't figure it out that is understandable. :wave: Ba--did you understand that????
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:ROFL:
I type faster then you can think so yea, my fingers do get a little backwards sometimes. but if you can't figure it out that is understandable. :wave: Ba--did you understand that????
You said that you would be ignoring the rest of my post and then you posted again? I order you not to post to me again and keep your word. I will have the last word here when it comes to you that is my power over you.---- Not only do your fingers get a lot backwards but also your thinking. Go back and read some of the links that you have posted, you are responsible for telling and spreading lies. But when I answer to your links you don't understand what I am talking about? So once again I order you not to respond to any of my post, thus proving my power over you and establishing the fact that I am right after all.
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Now isn't that amazing how the devil likes the same powers over people. One nails their own self especially in admission of having all power. No wonder there is Obama people like the Sabastian :rabbit: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: It's just a game to bringing out and exposing people's characters when I really do not know who they are. I knew the Sabastian almost instantly...... :-[ for you
YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME!!
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Now isn't that amazing how the devil likes the same powers over people. One nails their own self especially in admission of having all power. No wonder there is Obama people like the Sabastian :rabbit: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: It's just a game to bringing out and exposing people's characters when I really do not know who they are. I knew the Sabastian almost instantly...... :-[ for you!
I thought I ordered you not to talk to me but you did anyway. I will tell you one more time, I order you not to speak. Actually, your post is so unreadable and disjointed that I really don't understand what you are saying. Oh, the correct spelling is Sebastian, but of course you knew that? You voted for Bush junior twice so I will take the Obama statement as a compliment. You and the like are responsible for Bush eight years of corruption and the collapse of the economy and two wars and 9/11 no wonder you want to blame everything on Obama it helps take away your guilt. But your guilt remains, because you were used by Satan. I order you not to respond you must remain quiet, if Bush can control you and get you to vote for him twice I am sure I can have some influence
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WHAT A SICKO
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WHAT A SICKO
Why would you call George that? And why would you use the upper case? So I see you agree with the movie Sicko, and its stand on the American Health Care? I knew I would finally get you to agree. Now if I could only get you to stay quiet as I have ordered you? No more response from you Tinka and that is an order.---I saw Michelle Obama on the news today and she was looking beautiful as usual, and her children were looking good too.
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No one called George a sicko. I called you a sicko and you are trying to spell physic. You must still be drunk. Because that was for you only. Your not only sick and drunk but obsessed.
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No one called George a sicko. I called you a sicko and you are trying to spell physic. You must still be drunk. Because that was for you only. Your not only sick and drunk but obsessed.
I don't understand you what do you mean I am trying to spell physic? And why must you say things like I am drunk? Sicko, is a movie by Michael Moore about the Health Care Industry. Maybe I am reading you wrong you are really a very nice Christian woman who doesn't drink smoke or eat pork. And I am very blessed to know such a Christian woman of your Caliber. Maybe you are not the old hag I envisioned you to be. Just because you do not want to see Medical care extended to those without it or for the poor Mexican human beings doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad person. And Just because you hate Michelle Obama and her husband does not mean you are a bad person. And just because you keep calling me Sabastian and the like does not mean you are a bad person. And just because you said my brain is scattered does not mean you are a bad person. And just because you call me a non Christian and proceeded to slander my name does not necessarily mean you are a bad person. What it probably means is that you are an awful mean hateful old hag. And I invoke my power over you to quiet you up, from this point on I will hear nothing from you and that is a command. The fact that you voted for Bush and put him in office twice leaves you without excuse, it is folks like you that say you can see when in fact you are blind. Now you expect people to listen to you and all your information when you have been fooled for the last eight years. Okay, now all of a sudden you are enlightened and have all the information etc... give us a break, you are more blind than the person born without eyes. On the other hand the lovely Michelle and Barrack H. Obama and children are a reproach to those of your caliber that call yourself Christians. But maybe I am wrong, to bad I won't be able to hear from you because I have ordered you to cease with your responses so I am sure that if Bush can get you to vote him into office twice I can control you enough to stifle your responses.
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This topic is locked for a cooling period.
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