A reporter could call up Danny or Tommy or Jim Gilley or John Lomacang, and get their comments on the situation.
Woud you be so up in arms if the younger person had been female? David Vitter is still in the Senate. He visited prostitutes..He hasn't resigned.
Just wondering......
I don't want anyone in government who do such despicable things, whether the alleged victim be male or female.
If their sense of morality is that low, I don't think they can be trusted in a position of responsibility.
As an example: If Bill Clinton couldn't be true to the vow he took at the marriage altar, what made anyone think that he would be true to the oath of office he took?
My thought didn't concern job performance, but rather trustworthiness.
Even among those who believe Clinton was a good president, I doubt you can find many who consider Clinton to be a man who was true to his word, who would never tell a lie, and who would keep his promises.
Let us not forget what happened. Was he ever accused of lying to his wife?
He lied under oath.
As far as not being true to his wedding vows, he lied to God.
Here's some interesting quotations from Clinton: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-64675556.html (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-64675556.html)
As an example: If Bill Clinton couldn't be true to the vow he took at the marriage altar, what made anyone think that he would be true to the oath of office he took?
A reporter could call up Danny or Tommy or Jim Gilley or John Lomacang, and get their comments on the situation.
Christian leadership has a different set of standards than politics and business. Christian leaders are to set a Biblical example of living according to Christian principles. A politician can be immoral without breaking the law and still do a good job of governing as long as the voters don't mind, but being moral is a part of the Biblical job description in Christian leadership even when the laws of the land havent been broken.
First of all, Bob, you can't judge and don't know the status of Clinton's relationship with God.
David only confessed when he had to, didn't he? Nathan had to come and tell him aobut himself, did he not?
Once again, you are holding someone to hire standard that even God requires.....
We really have to be careful about the vanishing line between church and state. Our own end time prophecy is dependent on the fact that this will take place, and we should be aware. We have not only not been aware, we have been helping to erase it, speeding up the evitable. We should stop trying to hold our political leaders accountable to our religious standards. Since they are serving many of many different religious beliefs, which standard she they uphold, all are not the same, right?
I need to clarify this. No, you did not say that Clinton's presidency was a dismal failure, but it is the ultimate and logical conclusion to your reasoning.
Since he could and was trustworthy in his presidency, while at the very same time not being trustworthy in his marriage(and had been since being gov of AR), your question is not valid.
The guardians of the people, men in authority, upon whose decisions hang the lives of their fellow-creatures, should be subject to severe punishment if found guilty of intemperance. Those who enforce laws should be lawkeepers. They should be men of self-government, in full harmony with the laws governing their physical, mental, and moral powers, that they may possess full vigor of intellect and a high sense of justice. (2SP 80)
Christian leadership has a different set of standards than politics and business. Christian leaders are to set a Biblical example of living according to Christian principles. A politician can be immoral without breaking the law and still do a good job of governing as long as the voters don't mind, but being moral is a part of the Biblical job description in Christian leadership even when the laws of the land havent been broken.
By working upon the jealousy of the kings and the ruling classes, Rome had influenced them to keep the people in bondage, well knowing that the state would thus be weakened, and purposing by this means to fasten both rulers and people in her thrall. With farsighted policy she perceived that in order to enslave men effectually, the shackles must be bound upon their souls; that the surest way to prevent them from escaping their bondage was to render them incapable of freedom. A thousandfold more terrible than the physical suffering which resulted from her policy, was the moral degradation. Deprived of the Bible, and abandoned to the teachings of bigotry and selfishness, the people were shrouded in ignorance and superstition, and sunken in vice, so that they were wholly unfitted for self-government. (GC 281)
Apples and oranges. Samuel came and told Saul he'd done wrong. Saul denied it. Nathan told David he'd done wrong. David owned up immediately. Further, David immediately started fasting and praying on the ground. Then he enshrined his confession and repentance in the national hymnal.
What religious standards are you referring to? Honesty? Morality?
I will say that Clinton as president dismally failed as a role model to our children when he did what he did and lied about it under oath.
How do you know that he was trustworthy in his presidency? Because he said so? How would you know unless you had an extra high security clearance during his administration?
Samething, Bob. Saul is apples and oranges. David still did not admit his wrong until he was caught. You siad Clinton didn't admit his worng until he had ot. David did the very same thing.
QuoteWhat religious standards are you referring to? Honesty? Morality?
Exactly. You can't expect his to be the same as yours, or as those upheld in your denom.
He is not supposed to be a role model for our children, but if he is, like our current Commander and Chief, it is a huge plus. Next to Jesus, we ought to be our children's role model.
QuoteHow do you know that he was trustworthy in his presidency? Because he said so? How would you know unless you had an extra high security clearance during his administration?
Maybe because, unlike now, most of the countries of the world did not hate us, trusted us, looked up to us..........that might have been a good indication.
Your party talked about "family values" ....
I don't want anyone in government who do such despicable things, whether the alleged victim be male or female.
If their sense of morality is that low, I don't think they can be trusted in a position of responsibility.
As an example: If Bill Clinton couldn't be true to the vow he took at the marriage altar, what made anyone think that he would be true to the oath of office he took?
Your party talked about "family values" ....
I think the first two words indicate what the problem is. When I said:I don't want anyone in government who do such despicable things, whether the alleged victim be male or female.
If their sense of morality is that low, I don't think they can be trusted in a position of responsibility.
As an example: If Bill Clinton couldn't be true to the vow he took at the marriage altar, what made anyone think that he would be true to the oath of office he took?
When I said that I wasn't talking about one party or another. I am not a member of any political party. I simply think that we shouldn't have people in the highest offices in our land who have sold their souls for vice or greed or anything else that will cause them to choose wrong over right when decisions must be made. It has nothing to do with parties.
If you have a drug addict in the house and money is missing from your purse and they say they didn't do it, can you believe them? Not at all.
We need people in high positions who are as true to duty as the needle to the pole, who vow to their own hurt and change not. And someone who has sold their soul for lust doesn't qualify.
Problem is, the kind of people we need are pretty rare today. It's a sign of the end.
By the way, simply calling for religious leaders doesn't do it. Wily politicians simply get "religious." That brings religion down rather than the state up, and is what led to the spiritual declension just before the Millerite Movement took place. The number of Republicans who have had their own moral difficulties suggests that 170 years hasn't changed things much in that regard.
Your black friends can be of the same state of mind you are if they want.
There were always some blacks of the same mind of the slave traders, slave masters, etc.
Out of your own mouth comes the crux of your confusion.
First, In every race there are some smarter then others. 2nd, Your ancestors were slaves. Yes, over 100 years ago. Were you a slave? NO. Did your parents or ancestors fight states rights? yes. Did the win? yes. Did whites fight for you? yes Did you have to fight it? NO. Did Republicans fight for race? yes! Have you studied to see what Democrats actually did to you? The way I see it. No! Do they help you now or deceive and use you to keep some blacks where they are? Yes! It takes a little study to see how they do that! It is over. But for the revenger's it is not! (3.) White Christian ancestors were burned at the stake over a 100 years ago. Did that happen likewise in our generation? NO. Did black and white fight for the freedom of rights and religious freedom in ww1 and ww2 yes 4. Were the Jews slaves in past generations? Yes. Do they use that for racism now? No. 5. The smart blacks realized back then and now that all men are equal and go on with their meek and mild spirits of trying to be useful in society under belief in God in where ever he puts us in all situations and races. That is where the education and smarts end for these people that think they have to take up the plight for their ancestors. A true Christian makes no difference in the color of skin. It is not us making the difference any longer. Many, Many white people have worked for equality and you just do not let it happen. That is the black problem. My friends realize that and people like you don't. The racism comes not from white in this year and this time like the ancestors. We live now and now is not then and EGW states that prejudice will probably not end until the end and that is because Satan uses it as a tool now and in the past. The past belongs in the past. Even EGW understood and some of her money she sent to help the black pastors. So when you can forget the color you will get well.
The presences of blacks in ones life doesn't make anyone any less racist. There are black republicans. That is life. Everyone gets a choice.
Yes they do, If they understand it in a Christian way. Most do not get past the past and that nails them into no unity.
The republican point of view is one who doesn't recognize the sense of community and helping others, even if once they were among those who needed help.
It is obvious that you believe others should work for you or others when they won't work for themselves.
The Republican point of view is Bibical. But all republicans are not Christians but their view is based on
65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree [are] the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
This last phrase brings this help down to individuality for God to judge. This does not say poor blacks or poor whites. God will judge us on individual basis on how we gave to help. How his people the church respond NOT THE GOVERNMENT. Nowhere does this say that America will be judged as a Nation on how they gave through forceful government that forced the people to give until they were made to be in the majority of the poor. The poor forced, giving to the poor. Think about it.
Democrats view is not Bibical. The above verse is telling you how it should have been.
The hidden message in the phrase "giveaway president" is that they are going to assist people who republican deem unworthy of that assistance.
Here is where I draw the line on lack of Bibical knowledge as we are instructed. I agree that many are not concerned to take a stand on any party but this is the reason I do. I am part of society, part of a country, protected by the sacrifice of men and women that I am proud of in the past years and this is why I believe that some low taxes are ok to help society for roads, and upkeep of a nation, just like the upkeep of church. I live here and will not under any conditions make the soldiers of freedom that died and I walk upon the earth of their dust change the Bibical view of what they fought for. I have no time to convince closed uneducated views of racism in the hearts of ones that keep it going and give up all reason just to put a certain race in office. Now that is ludicrous.
That is mostly based on race, but also can be almost equally based on class. There are black people with this state of mind. Quite of few of them, but definitely not all, manifesting some type of self[race] hatred. Sure there are gliches in the systems put in place meant to help those most in need, but you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. You tighten up the process, and not leave those in need out in the cold.
You cannot tighten up the process when you do not go by the correct rules.
Tinka, I promise you if there was any hint of scandal in Mr. Obama's past, present, or eve a hint in the future, he would not even been allowed to run for president.
Where have you been? I look at the facts just like the facts I have seen on DS Saga. Are you blind to that too?
Just one of Sarah Palin's issues would have knock ehim(and any other candidate) out of the race. He had to be squeaky clean, including being held responsible for the words of others. Gurl please, tell that stuff to somebody who doesn't know any better.
He is not squeaky clean? He is brilliant to premeditation of fraud!
And just for the record, i would not have voted for Condi, just as I didnt' vote for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton when they ran. Condi, well I dont' agree with her
Her education must have intimidated you!
politics, Jesse and Al were not good candidates, period. I did not vote for Obama because he was black,
Then you voted for the handouts that will eventually bring America down like you stated.
if I didnt' like what he was saying, I still would not have voted for him, black or not. For the record, also, he even emphasized that he wasn't running as a black candidate but an American Candidate, so your black friends should not have a problem with him.
I know that is it pretty scary that black people did finally mobilized themselve and acted in unity. Yes they did, under Acorn
You all have been afraid of that since we were slaves. You and these late generation were never a slave and now you have the point.
There is nothing begative about that. It does not make us prejudce. Your statement above does exactly that
We happen ot have voted for a man who insists on including everyone at the table. He has not gotten into office and appointed all blacks, or excluding whites. He is insisting on everyone being included. Now, I will tell you that many blacks do feel as though he ought to take a little revenge, that is exactly my point, you made my case right here and now! They have been trained by parents of the same view like you
but you know I tell them different, especially if they are Christians. Two wrongs never make a right, and vengance belongs to God He allowed those men to be president because he sets up kingdoms and takes them down. Out of our relationship to Him, we owe them the respect of that office.
Sure, a good portion of past administrations not only excluded blacks but seemingly intentionally took every opportunity to impede any progress. We put up with that for 43 preseidents. Now, we get 1, one, one black president in 200+ year history of this country and you and your black friends can find a problem with it. What is wrong with this pricture?
We find a problem how it was obtained as stated above
One more thing.....if there was realy anything to that "article" you posted, I am sure that FOXNEWS would have picked up on it by now. They have and much more.
Soory, gurl, not working............you might want to come out of De Nial and an other point, seems you do not except the American English language either
. .......pray that God will really show you your heart...............now, I am through with this, also. Going around in racist circles is extremely tiresome. You just do not know what causes it and that is too bad. There is nothing I can do for you or your blakc friends. That is ok as they are just normal, educated Americans and we converse in unity and comfortability, respect and love. Only God can changed hearts, and only then if He is allowed, as He won't force you.
I just want to say one more thing, when I first came on here I saw somewhere the worst posting of horrible same language coming from BSDA talk that I think I ever heard out of someone by the name of I want to say "Leon" but no maybe that is not the name. If not Leon do not take offense. It was absolutely appalling, I would have to go back an make sure but I would know it if I heard it again. It has slipped my mind but that is an example of why there is racism.
Tinka
1. Surely you and others who may have taken offense at non standard English know that English is an evolving language which borrows words and phrases from cultures other than the WASP culture. Every year words and phrases are added to the dictionary as they change from popular usage to standard and accepted. Many blacks and whites who use slang are educated people who knowingly use it to make a point. You don't get the point when you don't realize you or your point of view are being gently mocked. Those who think they are superior because they don't use that kind of talk may not realize that they are the ones who are being condescended to.
Childoftheking,
I also see slang used to downgrade the Holy Scriptures in new versions. Instead of bringing ourselves up to meet and understand the higher standards there is always people to bring down the standards to their lever that people will follow. To believe that look at the dress of America and what it has become to accomodate to the lower levels and bring down the standards that cause one to santify all that they do is the right of things. It has taken me a life time to see that fact. I am not a follower of man and his slang in many things. What in this world are we instructed to do other then reach higher levels of education and knowledge in God's way? In mannerism, dress, health, and speaking? It does not matter to me if someone is mocking me.
2. The political discussion here has become very heated. Whatever group or political party anyone chooses to be the self appointed spokesman for on either or any side will find members of that group that have differing opinions. Just because one disagrees with a personal point of view or even disagrees with the most popular point of view within each group does not make them sellouts, bad people, bigots, immoral or deceived. Most people are firmly convinced that their point of view is the truth and get very upset when it is challenged. I believe that only when we get to heaven (assuming that we do) will we find out what went on behind the scenes. Man looks on the outward appearance. Only God looks on the heart. I think we are all a little biased. Myself included. I apologize for my own prejudices which it will probably take a lifetime to overcome. Help me. Tinka, may I assume that you are a relative newcomer to this part of the world or that your parents were? Do you like people to be prejudiced against people from your background?
You have misunderstood or I was not clear in my point. Prejudice is a tool of Satan. I was simply stating that other groups of race does not have the venum that is still with in "revenge" word that Princess di stated and I commented on.
Also the level of ones character can never be upgraded without a knowledge of true facts Bibically and Politically. I simply in a long way stated that with out Biblical principles you cannot know Political principles. Our obligation is to inquire of Holy Spirit and then do our part to learn with an open mind and leave prejudice behind.
And just for the record, i would not have voted for Condi, just as I didn't vote for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton when they ran. Condi, well I don't agree with her politics,..........
Now, I will tell you that many blacks do feel as though he ought to take a little revenge, but you know I tell them different, especially if they are Christians. Two wrongs never make a right, and vengance belongs to God He allowed those men to be president because he sets up kingdoms and takes them down. Out of our relationship to Him, we owe them the respect of that office.
IMO, if fear, loathing, suspicion, praise, love, trust, distrust and lots of other things are based largely on race then there is a problem with racism, no matter what a person's race may be. There is no race of people who are exempt from being racist. It is a problem that has existed in every part of the world, with every race of people as far back as recorded history goes. Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Communists, Green Party, Neo-Nazis, Black Panthers, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, and every other group have practiced racism (still do) and accused their oppositions groups of using it. Every group has been oppressed, and every group has oppressed.
tinka, that about Koran 9:11 was a prank. The real Surah 9:11 of the Koran reads something like this:
"But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, —they are your brethren in Faith: (Thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand."
Princessdi,
I am not trying to make excuse because of age or experience for my opinions and lack of getting my thoughts across. All that I know for sure is that we are told that prejudice is not going to enter the gates. That is my total argument. Yes, I know it is all over the world now as I see on tv of which we did not have so much tv growing up to know still a problem. My back ground is this. Growing up secluded rual I never came into contact with different race. I saw them in Larger city when visiting grandmother. I never went to grade school, high school or beyond where different race attended to get to know there was any difference. In fact growing up I was taught only that all men are equal. That was all I knew and never ever a problem. I went to church and still never had contact. My children all went to school basically the same.
This is something I could have told you, actually, Tinka. You were told all men were equal because you really didn't come into contact with anyone your parents thought were not equal. (you could not be more wrong, and I am so thankful I was not taught this bunch of malarkie. World war 2 veterans coming home put us in a housing area of their choice for veterans in rural area and then moved in rural house short time later in same area.) So they didn't really worry about telling you the rest. (Tell us the rest of what!!!!! and for what reason?? Our parents teaching us Hate like that!! What in the world are you saying. You just defined your upbringing) However, somewhere along the line, you did pick up all of the racist buzz words, phrases, and attitudes. Also the sterotypes. (Not really, until way older. are you meaning coming from white or black? I can tell only what I do remember and somehow I think it all started when the men came home from the service or just from the black race(time of slavery). What I remember is this. As jokes told I heard people called names of all races like polock, wops, hunky, hilbilly and yes the N word, but never did I consider them hate words but bad slang that we could do without. In fact, because my own father was killed my husband never knew what my maiden name was until he found out after we were married. HE was in shock and the whole family about died laughing at him. Now we can truthfully say he is from the South and I am from the North. That slang all seems to now be gone with the years. Except for ONE..Who uses that slang word on each other now? Unless these evil white supremist keep it going and that is because they are idiots. Now they only apply to those blacks who you don't know, (this is only your surmising theory of what is not true in my own mind and most white race) becuase the ones you know are not like ALL the "others. (white or black all have different levels of education) They seem so angry", and you take very opportunity to tell them that. ( Never run up against such stuff until I came on here and am in shock that a true SDA believes this way. Did you hear what I said not Black SDA but SDA!!! Not Black America but all America!!) The gratefully reply, "Thank you Miss/Mr. Tinka!". (This is sick and are you trying to tell me that all the race thinks this way??) Now you don't have to answer this question, but does that last phrase ( or any variantion) in quotes sound familiar to you? Purely, rhetorical, so please dont' post an answer. Just something to make you go, "hmmmm....." EGW was totaly right again that prejudice will be to the end. How sad.
The problem is when you disenfranchise an entire segment of your country's population for so long, there is s split. (So do you still feel this split is for good progress in the future?? and yes I feel that many whites feel like I do that great injustice has been done and have worked very hard for no split but what I am saying the change is going to have to take place under the life we all live in now. Not going over the past. Your communication has been quite interesting as I realize if you are talking for the whole race, change to even christian unity seems impossible) Unfortunately, when these rifts are in their healing process the majority/ruling class, don't mind when thing s favor their segment, but have a huge problem when the those who have been disenfranchised start" gaining ground" so to speak. (this is your own surmizing and comes from your "eternal split" in just being American and choosing what is best for "the people" instead of what is best for the whites and what is best for blacks.) Tinka, you, and others, are spelling out doom and gloom, and nearly armageoden because we just after 200+ years nominated a black(half black) president who is a democrat(which I believe is convenient to your argument, but not nearly as much of a problem as his racial persuassion). (This president elected by the huge help of Acorn has nothing to do with the coming of armageoden unless he heads America into the phophcy that is called for and so far his agenda is leaning to"Socialism". When that happens there will be no "freedom" left for anyone and ya all will get your handout of what ever they choose that they think is best. we will see) Now we just had a lily white (lily white, your RACISM is showing again) president from TX, card carring member of the Good ole boy Network, and he just nearly flushed the entire country down the toilet, and that is alright with you. (I do not agree with all that he let happen, In fact the liberal kept him from finishing the job as he tried to do. He should not have listened to them.) The USA is a great country, but for far too long we have resembled the "Animal Farm"..............." (WE HAVE?? ARE YOU REFERRING TO WHITE PRESIDENTS??) all animals are created equal, but some more equal than others". Time out for that now. TIME IS SHORT FOR CHANGE
Now I think a definition of racism will be helpful here. ALL people can be prejudice, but only those in power over others can exercise racism. For the entire history of he US, the ruling class has been caucasian men, and form the beginning they were racist( and sexist) in their policies. It took a war to end slavery, a 30+ year particularly violent movement including the death of of countless blacks and MLK to even begin to address civil rights, and another huge movement to get women's rights. We still have issues with civil(race) and women's issues today. There is still wide spead discrimination and glass celings in the work place. (And sorry to say it will never change with this amazing cancer of the mind.)
Now having said that. right Black people pretty much united and voted for a black president. good! You should not see that as a problem because white people have united to vote for a white president for 43 presidents. Why is it when the black people come out to vote for one of their own, there is a problem? In fact, no matter what party won before now, they were still going to be white(even Clinton)..............Oh but now, there is a huge problem and you perceive that black people employed the race card.......Well, up until now, white folks have held ALL the cards. We used one( you perceive), and you have a problem. (yes, with Acorn and if you were a true christian you would have found problem with that too but now you claim "We used one") Now, we are the purveyors of racism. Yeah right. And that is my point exactly of what happened. You made this truth! No reasoning if this man will actually help all poor white or black with his agenda. It would be wonderful if he did and I would be the first to state it if I saw it. But if he does what do you think the "liberal" will do to him?? My daughter works in high professional area and now they claim it is the "Black House" or Obama House! Do you realize it is the "peoples house".
When you can tell me why in the Land of the free, and home of the brave and total equality for ALL men, we have never before now had a black, asian, woman, or any other than a white male for President in 200+years, then maybe some of these arguments you have will have some merit, Tinka. ( I am not sure he has American ideas and not sure 100 per cent he is American) Until then, they are meaningless. At the beginning of all this there was no doubt that anything I said would mean anything to you what so ever. but it was quite interesting to me to be able to bring out from your own conversation, just how and where the RACISM lies and how the great split lives on. I leave on here with a clear conscience and sorry it can not change for all. Oh, by the way they just elected the best man for the chair of the Republican Party, Mike Steel, YES,Princessdi,
I am not trying to make excuse because of age or experience for my opinions and lack of getting my thoughts across. All that I know for sure is that we are told that prejudice is not going to enter the gates. That is my total argument. Yes, I know it is all over the world now as I see on tv of which we did not have so much tv growing up to know still a problem. My back ground is this. Growing up secluded rual I never came into contact with different race. I saw them in Larger city when visiting grandmother. I never went to grade school, high school or beyond where different race attended to get to know there was any difference. In fact growing up I was taught only that all men are equal. That was all I knew and never ever a problem. I went to church and still never had contact. My children all went to school basically the same.
PrincessDi, my sincere apologies for what we did to you.
RBF