Advent Talk
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: reddogs on November 02, 2008, 04:46:51 AM
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Obama as Americas President, is it all over but the counting.....
All the news media have Obama winning with almost 300 electoral votes, looks like its all over with just the final count of the vote to be done, at least from the medias viewpoint....
"......Barack Obama now leads McCain by 131 electoral votes, up from his 128-vote lead yesterday. CNN now estimates that if the presidential election were held today, Obama would win 291 electoral votes and John McCain 160. There are 87 electoral votes up for grabs. Again, 270 electoral votes are needed to win the White House...."
The CNN Electoral Map http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/31/cnn-electoral-map-update-mccain-loses-ground/
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To some it looks like you have the great freedom to choose between two evils.
If you are satisfied with great corruption then vote Republican
If you don't mid immorality to flourish then vote for the Democratic ticket.
Do you have a better definition?
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Johann,
I agree to most your saying but keep in mind that the Congres(Democrats) has really been in control for the years of Bush. Barney Franks and his lover are in possession of some of that money. Also, Corruption has been in both. But as all has heard a statement used quite often. "The New World ORder". YOu can readily see who is on that side. It will relate to "The One World Power" that will be for a year. (a day). Yes, we believe it is all coming down. McCain if telling the truth stand for How the USA was supposed to be founded for. Not to share the wealth. "The poor will be with you always". It is left by God to our own discrestion on how we do with our wealth. Obama's is forceful. Anything that is "forceful" is against the teaching of the Bible. So we must vote on the bigger picture the way I see it. Obama has premeditated for months and months the corruption of Acorn for the use of illigal votes. We know almost first hand as the very person that helped him out as Sec of State also did corruption in our case. :usa:
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To some it looks like you have the great freedom to choose between two evils.
If you are satisfied with great corruption then vote Republican
If you don't mid immorality to flourish then vote for the Democratic ticket.
Do you have a better definition?
Little side note:Many of Obama's handlers come from the CIA as I heard his mother was a operative thus the reason she was all over the world. Anyone heard anything on that..
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Some things Obama has planned.
1. It is said Obamas team will cut the military budget by 35 percent the first week in office.
2. Cut almost all military Research and developement of new weapons systems.
3. Have Congress pass a bill that will force conservative radio programs have opossing viewpoints presented or the radio stations will lose their license. This is an attack on programs like Rush Limbaugh.
4. Force every employer to have a health plan or be fined.
5. Increase social security tax to unlimited income for all incomes over 250,000 dollars.
6. Increase the taxes on all families earning more than $250,000 and give the extra money in tax rebates to those with less money. Redistributing the wealth is good for America says Obama.
7. Increase the corporate tax rates. This will make the recession deeper but Obama does not seem to realize this.
Just some of the things Obama has planned for us.
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Is this written in the heat of an election campaign against him?
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Is this written in the heat of an election campaign against him?
Obama is very charming and well learned, but I am afraid until we see the policies and laws he pushes, we will not know the 'true' Obama....McCain seems to be a oppurtunist, so its hard to pick between the two..
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I have two good friends - almost relatives -and both Seventh-day Adventists. One of them has already voted for McCain in order to save America from destruction. The other one votes for Obama for the same reason. A third good friend in the same category, but not a SDA, is refraining from voting this time. He sees too much corruption on both sides.
Who is doing the right think?
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I have two good friends - almost relatives -and both Seventh-day Adventists. One of them has already voted for McCain in order to save America from destruction. The other one votes for Obama for the same reason. A third good friend in the same category, but not a SDA, is refraining from voting this time. He sees too much corruption on both sides.
Who is doing the right thing?
When Castro came into power in Cuba he told his men, you will be by my side when we take power, trust me. He told the Catholics, look I wear the cross on my neck, so trust me. To the people he said, I am fighting to bring you out of oppressive yoke of the dictator, so trust me, and to the peasants and farmers he said I am fighting to make a better life for you, so trust me.
So they trusted him and the firing squads began, and soon everyone who trusted him found out what they had believed in, was all a lie.
We cannot put our trust in man, but we can always hope and pray that God brings us men of good character and knowledge to lead our nation. Vote your conscience and put the rest in Gods hands...
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Some things Obama has planned.
1. It is said Obamas team will cut the military budget by 35 percent the first week in office.
2. Cut almost all military Research and developement of new weapons systems.
3. Have Congress pass a bill that will force conservative radio programs have opossing viewpoints presented or the radio stations will lose their license. This is an attack on programs like Rush Limbaugh.
4. Force every employer to have a health plan or be fined.
5. Increase social security tax to unlimited income for all incomes over 250,000 dollars.
6. Increase the taxes on all families earning more than $250,000 and give the extra money in tax rebates to those with less money. Redistributing the wealth is good for America says Obama.
7. Increase the corporate tax rates. This will make the recession deeper but Obama does not seem to realize this.
Just some of the things Obama has planned for us.
THE SKY IS FALLING. THE SKY IS FALLING. I love you Obama alarmist. Yeah, even this was true, which is is not, only 2% of Americans make more than $250K. You where not complaining with Bush/McCain and the republican controled congress with giving these increasing tax breaks to the wealth and corporations.
Now this is what you ought to be scared about. A McCain that voted 90% with Bush, who has a 22% approval rating, the lowest ever of any president. Worst encomonic situation in recent history, banks falling, two wars, etc. etc.
We need real change in American...and on Tuesday with an Obama win we will be on our way.
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Calvin,
Figures lie, and Liars figure!!
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Calvin,
Figures lie, and Liars figure!!
Come on now. This is the best comeback you have?
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Calvin,
Let me state this, We have been in the political world for many, many years but not politicians. We relate and feel it is important to know what is happening and compare History and Revelation, the Spirit of Phrophcy and then stay on the side of Bibical Order. The only way we can do that is to find and know truth of the matter. We share our wealth on an Individual Basis as we are judged on these things on individual basis, Not on a forceful handout that some people set back and feel intitled too Especially when someone else worked for it. There is always some people that feel they are owed freebies while others do not. Joe the Plummer is one of them. Sorry but you sputtered out your belief in Sharing the Wealth.... You must be young and inexperienced from your vocabulary.
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Pardon me Calvin, but to me you sound like the sound bites off many of the main stream media. Hmm...the media has gone to great lengths to protect and shelter Obama. People have been robbed of asking authentic and concerning questions that should be looked at carefully, and sidetracked with non-issue stuff and fluff. Sad. I have never seen such an organized media bias in my life time.
If BO wins, this country will be in grave danger. Ask Biden, Hillary, and plenty of other dems who have stated it as well, when there wasn't something in it for them to suddenly flip/flop. This has nothing to do with being an alarmist. Has everything to do with his radical record (when he decided to vote) and who he hangs with - or maybe just who he has used to climb up the political ladder, or maybe who is using him.
Among many other things that concern me, some mentioned above, I don't care to have my "wealth" spread around, thank you. Gee, which wealth number are we talking? It once was those who made a million or more, then it went to 500g, then to 250, then to 200 (as of last week in the infomercial) and then to 120, and right back to 42,500 where BO put his vote before. I would rather GIVE to help my neighbor then have it taken from me and given to someone feels who they deserve my hard earned living. We have a small business, and we are well aware of what BO will do to us. We already feel much of that pain in our Dem run state....they never have enough, they have to find ways to take more and more.....maybe I should just quit and get the welfare that will be there for me instead. Why work? I deserve to collect from someone else who works, especially those big companies that make too much, guess they won't have as much left to invest in growing their business and hiring more people, but I'm sure they won't mind laying people off to pay me who wants to sit home and collect my new "pay". Like the lady who said she didn't need to worry about filling her gas tank, buying her groceries, paying her rent or anything of her bills, because Obama was going to take care of her. She decided she didn't need to work so much to get somewhere. No need.
Programs are great if they teach and educate people to take care of themselves and their families, but not if they enable people to be dependent on the govt, which really only buys continued votes, which is a nice way of keeping power.
BO voted 94 times to RAISE taxes in his short time as a senator...that's the dem way. BIIIIIGGG govt.
Should we talk about BO's votes on botched abortions too?? Very sensitive subject.....
The media has been on a hate fest against Bush for 8 years, and especially the past 4, mostly to being EXTREMELY poor losers and a plan to make everything that has gone wrong about Bush...well, remember that it was under Clinton that the idea of putting people who could not afford it in situations that were part of this large economic mess with Frannie and Freddie, and Frank and the dems in control the past two years who sealed the fate of them by saying no regulation was needed after Bush called for review SEVERAL times since 2002, and of course Ol Barney Frank said just this summer (in July) that all was fine with F&F!! HA!!! Well, they would say that as BO was one of the top 3 benefactors along with Dodd. Doesn't it smell funny to you?? So, thank Frank and Dodd for their dedication to oversight of these programs.
Bush has kept us safe, as one canadian lady said, "why do so many americans hate their president? He said he would keep them safe and he has!". They hate because they have been told to and why. Not because they have thought things out on their own. No president does everything perfectly, and as I recall, no president has had to fight terrorism like we have it now.
Among other stark comparisons I could mention, I would rather have someone who is against and has NEVER asked for any ear marks (like McCain) while BO has asked for almost 1 mil per day he has been in office...hmm...
If he wins, change is on the way, but in my opinion, it won't be good change.
Some things Obama has planned.
1. It is said Obamas team will cut the military budget by 35 percent the first week in office.
2. Cut almost all military Research and developement of new weapons systems.
3. Have Congress pass a bill that will force conservative radio programs have opossing viewpoints presented or the radio stations will lose their license. This is an attack on programs like Rush Limbaugh.
4. Force every employer to have a health plan or be fined.
5. Increase social security tax to unlimited income for all incomes over 250,000 dollars.
6. Increase the taxes on all families earning more than $250,000 and give the extra money in tax rebates to those with less money. Redistributing the wealth is good for America says Obama.
7. Increase the corporate tax rates. This will make the recession deeper but Obama does not seem to realize this.
Just some of the things Obama has planned for us.
THE SKY IS FALLING. THE SKY IS FALLING. I love you Obama alarmist. Yeah, even this was true, which is is not, only 2% of Americans make more than $250K. You where not complaining with Bush/McCain and the republican controled congress with giving these increasing tax breaks to the wealth and corporations.
Now this is what you ought to be scared about. A McCain that voted 90% with Bush, who has a 22% approval rating, the lowest ever of any president. Worst encomonic situation in recent history, banks falling, two wars, etc. etc.
We need real change in American...and on Tuesday with an Obama win we will be on our way.
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sonshineonme,
You said that so well, and also. Another verse you can be sure or apply is if one can not decide or bring yourself to believe is.. "a man will not work and another eat!". This is what is intended.
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The roots of our economic troubles goes back to President Clinton. During his terms in office they encouraged banks to loan to lower income people who really could not afford a loan. With lower fed interest rates this was made possible with sub prime mortgage rates. All was well until the feds started to raise interest rates again. As soon as they started to raise interest rates two years later our economy tanked. Bush was just unfortunate to be president when that policy of loaning to lower income families came to its obvious conclusion. Now we all pay for that little bit of democratic social engineering. With lower interest rates and the fed pumping the money supply our economy will turn around but not for two years. Economics predict a recession that will not bottom out until 2010. Then slowly turn around. We will not get to previous levels of this recession until 2011 or 2012. Just in time for the next president to take credit for the economy getting better. Unless he raises taxes to much on those that can create the jobs like the rich and corporations then the recession could be much worse and longer.
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Brothers and sisters, we here see the Obamanation of desolation spoken of in the book of Revelation, predicted by the prophets of old, in terms that make the blood run cold. The remnant of the book will take a close studied look as the peoples of this earth are obaminated, decimated, and eliminated by he who has come to obaminate decimate, and eliminate. The fires of justice will rage from DC, the rivers of its obaminating flame will flow from sea to shining sea. Let us stand up and take a look to the words of prophecy spoken in the book, for the obamination of desolation has swept the hearts and souls of the nation.
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Brothers and sisters, we here see the Obamanation of desolation spoken of in the book of Revelation, predicted by the prophets of old, in terms that make the blood run cold. The remnant of the book will take a close studied look as the peoples of this earth are obaminated, decimated, and eliminated by he who has come to obaminate decimate, and eliminate. The fires of justice will rage from DC, the rivers of its obaminating flame will flow from sea to shining sea. Let us stand up and take a look to the words of prophecy spoken in the book, for the obamination of desolation has swept the hearts and souls of the nation.
You said that in jest as a joke, tongue in cheek, right..... :scratch:
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The real book of Revelation draws a picture of a two horned beast some understand as representing the United States of America. That beast will come charging at the true believers prior to the Second Coming of Christ. It still grants you great Freedom. You can still choose if you want to be struck by the left or right horn of that beast! One of them might delay the strike. Which one? Have the voters chosen to delay that strike?
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Brothers and sisters, we here see the Obamanation of desolation spoken of in the book of Revelation, predicted by the prophets of old, in terms that make the blood run cold. The remnant of the book will take a close studied look as the peoples of this earth are obaminated, decimated, and eliminated by he who has come to obaminate decimate, and eliminate. The fires of justice will rage from DC, the rivers of its obaminating flame will flow from sea to shining sea. Let us stand up and take a look to the words of prophecy spoken in the book, for the obamination of desolation has swept the hearts and souls of the nation.
You said that in jest as a joke, tongue in cheek, right..... :scratch:
Hmmmmm, Why would this be a joke??? Did anyone on here think that before Jesus comes that the USA would not be totally corrupted?? Nothing stable left anywhere. We were not misinformed at all. It's here! Unbeliveable TRUTH is happening. Any one hear of the New World Order? How about "One World Power". "and most of the majority followed after." How about the "Changing of the World" yes this rang out for everyone to hear..All will get change but not on how they thought... This is not a joke either, I expect to see DS to excell under the Prince of this World for His ____ deeds. Peace, Peace and then sudden distruction. Any one recall the "INspired Writer" writing with tears in her eyes that she could barely write on what would happen to the Adventists. The Louder Cry that swells to those who will believe in the last hour and a lot of Catholics coming to the frontlines for the fight. Our greatest pillars will fall and yes, I read it all and believe.
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Are Adventists handing out copies of The Great Controversy to others without reading it themselves?
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Johann,
Yes it appears we are going to get "hit" by the most far left horn we have ever seenif that is the scenario. Corruption will possibly be "checked" by "the Right Horn". ;) the worst we have ever seen!!!!!
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The greatest danger is when we get charged by either horn from within our own ranks. Which "board" will then be our protection?
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In stead of following the counting of the votes last night - I figured me watching would not make any difference in the outcome - a Greek internet program challenged me to read 1 Thess. 1:1. 1Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.
The expression "in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" was a sermon to me. Am I within this protection? There is the only safety. Compare this with Psalm 91.
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Johann,
I would not watch it either. and I agree.
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Brothers and sisters, we here see the Obamanation of desolation spoken of in the book of Revelation, predicted by the prophets of old, in terms that make the blood run cold. The remnant of the book will take a close studied look as the peoples of this earth are obaminated, decimated, and eliminated by he who has come to obaminate decimate, and eliminate. The fires of justice will rage from DC, the rivers of its obaminating flame will flow from sea to shining sea. Let us stand up and take a look to the words of prophecy spoken in the book, for the obamination of desolation has swept the hearts and souls of the nation.
You said that in jest as a joke, tongue in cheek, right..... :scratch:
Hmmmmm, Why would this be a joke??? Did anyone on here think that before Jesus comes that the USA would not be totally corrupted?? Nothing stable left anywhere. We were not misinformed at all. It's here! Unbeliveable TRUTH is happening. Any one hear of the New World Order? How about "One World Power". "and most of the majority followed after." How about the "Changing of the World" yes this rang out for everyone to hear..All will get change but not on how they thought... This is not a joke either, I expect to see DS to excell under the Prince of this World for His ____ deeds. Peace, Peace and then sudden distruction. Any one recall the "INspired Writer" writing with tears in her eyes that she could barely write on what would happen to the Adventists. The Louder Cry that swells to those who will believe in the last hour and a lot of Catholics coming to the frontlines for the fight. Our greatest pillars will fall and yes, I read it all and believe.
He was twisting the 'Abomination of Desolation' phrase so it just looks like a joke, if anything at all..
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Lol! Tongue-in-cheek.
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So life begins again with new challenges. Also for us?
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Last night, America took and huge step forward, but not all Americans took that step, as expected. Habenero does not have to be sayign anything tongue in cheek. It is his perogative to remain racially challenged. God gives him this choice. Not all have reached the point of loving their brohters and sisters in chirst with God's love...unconditionally. Let him have his say, he is speaking from his heart.
Let, just add something now that I have read ALL of the threads!!! Never mind.....i guess I should not be surprised at the racism here. It clouds your judgment so that you over look the mess we are in.............Just so you own't have a black man int he White House. You all need much prayer to change those racist hearts. It is just sad. however, I thank you all for showing your true colors. i'm out!
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Um, could you tell me what threads/posts are racist?? And, as far as Habenero's post goes, what did he say that was racially challenged? There are many many reasons to not want Obama in the white house, NONE of which have anything to do with the color of his skin. None.
Lets not make this about race. We are above that, hopefully you are as well.
Last night, America took and huge step forward, but not all Americans took that step, as expected. Habenero does not have to be sayign anything tongue in cheek. It is his perogative to remain racially challenged. God gives him this choice. Not all have reached the point of loving their brohters and sisters in chirst with God's love...unconditionally. Let him have his say, he is speaking from his heart.
Let, just add something now that I have read ALL of the threads!!! Never mind.....i guess I should not be surprised at the racism here. It clouds your judgment so that you over look the mess we are in.............Just so you own't have a black man int he White House. You all need much prayer to change those racist hearts. It is just sad. however, I thank you all for showing your true colors. i'm out!
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NO!! Di!! Please don't go!! I love you gurl!! I think it is AWESOME to have a black President!! My issues with Obama have nothing to do with his race! What I didn't understand was everybody turning on Governor Palin saying that she wasn't qualified to be President. But I thought she was a lot more qualified than Senator Obama. I couldn't care less if they both were purple dwarfs! I just don't think he has enough experience. (But just for the record, I couldn't vote for anybody this round, for geographical reasons.)
I thought his acceptance speech was excellent, he is sincere, he has a beautiful family, and he is our President-elect! May God be with him and provide him with the wisdom he will need to succeed. And you are right! America did take a huge step forward. MLK would be proud!!
Last night, America took and huge step forward, but not all Americans took that step, as expected. Habenero does not have to be sayign anything tongue in cheek. It is his perogative to remain racially challenged. God gives him this choice. Not all have reached the point of loving their brohters and sisters in chirst with God's love...unconditionally. Let him have his say, he is speaking from his heart.
Let, just add something now that I have read ALL of the threads!!! Never mind.....i guess I should not be surprised at the racism here. It clouds your judgment so that you over look the mess we are in.............Just so you own't have a black man int he White House. You all need much prayer to change those racist hearts. It is just sad. however, I thank you all for showing your true colors. i'm out!
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Last night, America took and huge step forward, but not all Americans took that step, as expected. Habenero does not have to be sayign anything tongue in cheek. It is his perogative to remain racially challenged. God gives him this choice. Not all have reached the point of loving their brohters and sisters in chirst with God's love...unconditionally. Let him have his say, he is speaking from his heart.
Let, just add something now that I have read ALL of the threads!!! Never mind.....i guess I should not be surprised at the racism here. It clouds your judgment so that you over look the mess we are in.............Just so you own't have a black man int he White House. You all need much prayer to change those racist hearts. It is just sad. however, I thank you all for showing your true colors. i'm out!
Princess Di, sorry that you took offence. It was a joke making fun of the many people who think that way.
You have grown up and lived in a white majority country. I did not. I was raised in a country where there were very few white people, and I had no white friends or neighbors. All my friends and the people I was raised with were black. I thought I was one of them. I speak fluent Caribbean Creole, as that is my native tongue, and was entirely unaware of such a thing as racism until I moved to the United States.
I did not support Obama, but it had nothing to do with his race, it had to do with his policies, and the policies of the party that he ran with. Wars, financial crisis, and those other things aside, the most precious thing there is on the face of this earth is the life of a child. I lived in IL when Barak stood with those who tried to bring about a law that would mandate that any baby who survived a late term abortion attempt would not be helped and would be left to lie there and cry on a table until it died. He supported that, and wanted it to become law that a doctor could not help a baby who was born that was unwanted. I cannot support any person, no matter their race, who would support such a horrible and inhuman thing. I have very personal reasons for my position on that and no one will ever successfully challenge that as I am very glad to be alive, and anyone who would debate me on this issue, by doing so, wants me dead. Princess, Di, I assume (hopefully?) you don't wish I was dead, but I cannot and will not support the death of people like myself. Barak wanted me and people like me to be dead, and he would have demanded by law that no doctor could save unwanted people like me. I am more than happy to be alive, and every day is a wonderful thing to me. That would not have had any chance of happening is Barak had his way.
So, yes, I have a problem with him, and no, it has nothing to do with his race. If you or anyone else attempt to turn my issues with him into a racial matter, you are cheapening something very precious, and showing that your own racism against me for the white color of my skin is the more important to you than my life, and the lives of many others like me who are of all races. The value of life supercedes race every time!!!!!!
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Furthermore, Princess Di, I am one of ten adopted kids in a family of 17 kids. I have black and hispanic brothers and sisters who are MY brothers and sisters, and don't you ever dare to accuse me of racism against my own family, because of your own issues and my disagreements with Barak Obama for his desire for children to be killed.
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Princessdi,
Your words make it well known where you are and who and what you voted for. Obama was elected because of racism coming mostly from Black America. Christian people voted for Character, a way of life from Bibical standards. What we or I voted against is premediated for years ahead for Acorn to accomplish a hidden agenda, eastern Connections, double talk, lying, concealing of what I believe is not even born in USA. Check out court dockets in PA. Nothing was up front with this guy. High taxes, spread the wealth, control, change the world. (Did you believe he could change the world with unbiblical agenda.) We Christians will be able to stand and get through this but my only thought is will you? I hope you have no illusion that Black Americia or any ones skin color will exempt you from Obama's and His liberal Democratic tax and spin policies. Ready to give up freedom of speach? For those who thought to get freebies. There is nothing free!!
Christians voted on Principles as I have read these posts of many.
I have very close amazing Black friends that do not think this way. They are not Adventist. In fact you would not want her to be turned loose on these sort of posts. I have been correcting, critiquing, her book for her that soon comes out. Go to www.mainstreetfedup.biz. This is just an introduction to her finished book possible coming out by next week. She gets it.
And for all of you like Calvin's posts also that think in the terms these uneduacated whites of racism, go to the Web site and read her story as she discovers the realms of the Economy and why, where and what has happened to America financially. (Obama's Agenda)
The broad picture here is voters did not vote for Principles but Racism.
and it detailed where we are in the end of History as a whole because of the lack of principles. Again I ask, Did you think that USA would not be corrupted totally before Jesus comes.
I reject being called racist. I voted for Freedom!!! for all.
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When I was a much younger man I assumed every missed job promotion, any slight against me, unkind word by a white person was a result of racism. But later in life I discovered that there are a lot of reasons why someone may not like me that has nothing to do with race. Some Black people don’t like me either. I don’t mind saying that some Blacks are too eager to play the race card, assuming that every misfortune is a result of racism.
I saw nothing in this thread that hints at racism. What I did find amusing is that some Adventist will take any major current event and equate it to Adventist brand of prophecy. So Obama will bring the peace before the time of trouble, the anti-Christ? This is just downright silly.
Obama won the election because he is smarter, with better ideas, and showed leadership under fire…and had little to do with race. That is my take. For me it is still sinking in. A Black man in the White House. Wow I like most African-Americans we are so proud of him, we can hardly contain ourselves. But I am just as proud to be an American, for what is country did in this election. The vast majority voted their conscience on the issues, just the way it should be.
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Calvin,
I want to express my appreciation for this post of yours.
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When I was a much younger man I assumed every missed job promotion, any slight against me, unkind word by a white person was a result of racism. But later in life I discovered that there are a lot of reasons why someone may not like me that has nothing to do with race. Some Black people don’t like me either. I don’t mind saying that some Blacks are too eager to play the race card, assuming that every misfortune is a result of racism.
I saw nothing in this thread that hints at racism.
What are you reading? When it is accused that we just can't except a black man as President..What do you call that??
What I did find amusing is that some Adventist will take any major current event and equate it to Adventist brand of prophecy.
So what brand of Prophecy do you consider better??
And I sincerely hope you can stay amused as this will not bring peace! IThis agenda never did!!!
So Obama will bring the peace before the time of trouble, the anti-Christ?
The anti-Christ is already here. Where have you been??
This is just downright silly.
Obama won the election because he is smarter, with better ideas, and showed leadership under fire…and had little to do with race.
You mean like his 20 years of under fire under Rev. Wright??
That is my take. For me it is still sinking in. A Black man in the White House. Wow I like most African-Americans we are so proud of him, we can hardly contain ourselves.
And there it is again...this is why you voted. Your own pride! That a Black Man in office was always possible. What made you think it was not?? Because of race?? We just wanted one with good Character and morals. He is smart alright and so is Lucifer. A good American fights under the Christian banner of why this country was founded. Freedom for all and not to get someone in office to prove their equal when whites consider that it already is. We are not back in time here. Why do only a few Black realize that White America has fought for equality and no matter what, Black still claim racism. Why don't you look back in History, far back and see how the Dems did to you back then. It was the Republicans that fought for you. But all and all I wish it could be not like this. But in reading EGW it is clear that using racism is definitely a tool of the Devil. In this day and age it is of no concern to me except to be on the right side of things. Obama did play the race card for not a very amusing agenda. How can it be?? No compasion for poor babies that cannot choose. Smart huh!!! He wants the rich to pay for us po folk.
But I am just as proud to be an American, for what is country did in this election. The vast majority voted their conscience on the issues, just the way it should be.
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In stead of following the counting of the votes last night - I figured me watching would not make any difference in the outcome - a Greek internet program challenged me to read 1 Thess. 1:1. 1Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.
The expression "in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" was a sermon to me. Am I within this protection? There is the only safety. Compare this with Psalm 91.
Johann, you missed a truly magnificent moment in history:
A moment when America showed the world that those who are motivated by fear, hatred and self-serving agendas are a shrinking minority.
A moment when America showed the world that those who are motivated by hope, faith and charity are becoming a powerful majority.
Please don't misunderstand me. Millions of good-hearted, ethical Americans voted for John McCain for all of the right reasons. However, there was a very vocal element among his supporters who showed the world a very ugly side of this country. They were responsible for emails and hate sites full of lies and twisted truths flooding the internet, appealing to the fears and predjudices of many. They were responsible for such abominable moments as the one, at a Palin rally in PA this past October. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4960elGExPc) By not strongly denouncing these rumormongering emails and blatant shows of hatred, McCain was giving them his tacit approval; encouraging this destructive behavior by his silence. I believe it cost him dearly. It was still there when on November 4th, when he was attempting to give his outstanding and gracious concession speech and a group of his supporters booed at the mention of our President-elect's name.... this in front of all the watching world. I felt such a great sadness for John McCAin at that moment. A few persisted with their vitriol, refusing to join him in his sincere attempt to begin the post-campaign healing, even when others among the crowd tried to stop them.
You also missed seeing the crowd gathered at Grant Park. If any booed during Barack Obama's first speech as America's President-elect, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y11XTAh4V5Y) I didn't hear it. I saw tears of joy, faces glowing with hope and a crowd that truly represented what America is becoming; a country united.
It wasn't Black America, White America, Latino America, Asian America, Gay America, Christian America, Atheist America or any other group that elected Barack Obama to be our 44th Commander in Chief... It was America.
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Thank you GMN,
I did see most of what you refer to, although some of it delayed. What I missed was the slow counting of all the votes, state by state, going on for hours. Even that was shown on TV over here. It shiws what an important event this was for the whole world.
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Grammy,
I can assure you that the Pa rally thing that the media claimed happened Did not happen!! You happen to be watching the liberal media for that one. It was founded to be a lie but of course you did not see that on any liberal media station. I did not watch any of his slick speach. Nor will I ever. But pryor I watched every smidge to know truth to give him every benefit of any doubt as a human being because I have learned much in my life that only after you bite the beautiful juicy red apple will your eyes be opened.
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When I was a much younger man I assumed every missed job promotion, any slight against me, unkind word by a white person was a result of racism. But later in life I discovered that there are a lot of reasons why someone may not like me that has nothing to do with race. Some Black people don’t like me either. I don’t mind saying that some Blacks are too eager to play the race card, assuming that every misfortune is a result of racism.
I saw nothing in this thread that hints at racism.
What are you reading? When it is accused that we just can't except a black man as President..What do you call that??
What I did find amusing is that some Adventist will take any major current event and equate it to Adventist brand of prophecy.
So what brand of Prophecy do you consider better??
And I sincerely hope you can stay amused as this will not bring peace! IThis agenda never did!!!
So Obama will bring the peace before the time of trouble, the anti-Christ? This is just downright silly.
The anti-Christ is already here. Where have you been??
The anti-Christ is already here? Who is he? Certainly you aren't suggesting that President-elect Barack Obama is the anti-Christ!
Obama won the election because he is smarter, with better ideas, and showed leadership under fire…and had little to do with race.
You mean like his 20 years of under fire under Rev. Wright??
Rev. Jeremiah Wright is an American who served this country well and has every right to his opinions. Media twisted his words, his thoughts to make them appear divisive. I was disappointed that Barack Obama distanced himself from Rev. Wright, but understand that he needed to because he is a man who wants the country to pull together instead of stand divided. Rev. Wright is addressing a very real part of this country's history and, sadly, its present; for bigotry is still alive in the USA. Praise God that it is a shrinking minority who still allow it to destroy their hearts!
Tinka, if you really want to assure me that the PA rally thing did not happen, please provide link(s) to proof that the PA rally video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4960elGExPc) was "founded to be a lie" of the liberal media. If you are unable to provide proof, your assurances that it didn't happen will not suffice.
That is my take. For me it is still sinking in. A Black man in the White House. Wow I like most African-Americans we are so proud of him, we can hardly contain ourselves.
And there it is again...this is why you voted. Your own pride! That a Black Man in office was always possible. What made you think it was not?? Because of race?? We just wanted one with good Character and morals. He is smart alright and so is Lucifer. A good American fights under the Christian banner of why this country was founded. Freedom for all and not to get someone in office to prove their equal when whites consider that it already is. We are not back in time here. Why do only a few Black realize that White America has fought for equality and no matter what, Black still claim racism. Why don't you look back in History, far back and see how the Dems did to you back then. It was the Republicans that fought for you. But all and all I wish it could be not like this. But in reading EGW it is clear that using racism is definitely a tool of the Devil. In this day and age it is of no concern to me except to be on the right side of things. Obama did play the race card for not a very amusing agenda. How can it be?? No compasion for poor babies that cannot choose. Smart huh!!! He wants the rich to pay for us po folk.
How many billions of American dollars are being given each month to pay for a war that is responsible for perfoming post birth abortions on innocent Iraqi children? Where is your compassion for these children who cannot choose to be out of the path of bullets and bombs?
But I am just as proud to be an American, for what is country did in this election. The vast majority voted their conscience on the issues, just the way it should be.
Yes, Calvin, the vast majority (again, Praise God!) voted their conscience on the issues. I am also proud to be an American!
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Please don't misunderstand me. Millions of good-hearted, ethical Americans voted for John McCain for all of the right reasons. However, there was a very vocal element among his supporters who showed the world a very ugly side of this country. They were responsible for emails and hate sites full of lies and twisted truths flooding the internet, appealing to the fears and predjudices of many. They were responsible for such abominable moments as the one, at a Palin rally in PA this past October. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4960elGExPc) By not strongly denouncing these rumormongering emails and blatant shows of hatred, McCain was giving them his tacit approval; encouraging this destructive behavior by his silence. I believe it cost him dearly. It was still there when on November 4th, when he was attempting to give his outstanding and gracious concession speech and a group of his supporters booed at the mention of our President-elect's name.... this in front of all the watching world. I felt such a great sadness for John McCAin at that moment. A few persisted with their vitriol, refusing to join him in his sincere attempt to begin the post-campaign healing, even when others among the crowd tried to stop them.
In all fairness to both sides I will point out that everything you have said about the ugliness and weirdness directed at Obama went the other direction as well, and Obama steadfastly refused to denounce it. There was terrible hate and vitriol, rumouring, emails, websites, and vicious language directed at McCain, but more so at Palin, that had (and still has) Obama's tacit approval.
How many billions of American dollars are being given each month to pay for a war that is responsible for perfoming post birth abortions on innocent Iraqi children? Where is your compassion for these children who cannot choose to be out of the path of bullets and bombs?
Yes, it is appalling, although our bullets and bombs stopped killing Iraqi children long ago. For some time now it has been the increasingly diminishing actions of foreign Arab insurgents that has been killing Iraqi civilians. In any case, that in no way makes the domestic killing of little kids in numbers far beyond anything the war did, any more pallatable or right.
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All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?
Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"
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Please don't misunderstand me. Millions of good-hearted, ethical Americans voted for John McCain for all of the right reasons. However, there was a very vocal element among his supporters who showed the world a very ugly side of this country. They were responsible for emails and hate sites full of lies and twisted truths flooding the internet, appealing to the fears and predjudices of many. They were responsible for such abominable moments as the one, at a Palin rally in PA this past October. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4960elGExPc) By not strongly denouncing these rumormongering emails and blatant shows of hatred, McCain was giving them his tacit approval; encouraging this destructive behavior by his silence. I believe it cost him dearly. It was still there when on November 4th, when he was attempting to give his outstanding and gracious concession speech and a group of his supporters booed at the mention of our President-elect's name.... this in front of all the watching world. I felt such a great sadness for John McCAin at that moment. A few persisted with their vitriol, refusing to join him in his sincere attempt to begin the post-campaign healing, even when others among the crowd tried to stop them.
In all fairness to both sides I will point out that everything you have said about the ugliness and weirdness directed at Obama went the other direction as well, and Obama steadfastly refused to denounce it. There was terrible hate and vitriol, rumouring, emails, websites, and vicious language directed at McCain, but more so at Palin, that had (and still has) Obama's tacit approval.
I'd like to see them. My Inbox was flooded daily by the ones filled with rumors and lies about Obama, but I didn't see the ones about McCain and Palin. Where are the websites that direct hate, vitrol and vicious language at McCain and Palin? I'd like to see them.
How many billions of American dollars are being given each month to pay for a war that is responsible for perfoming post birth abortions on innocent Iraqi children? Where is your compassion for these children who cannot choose to be out of the path of bullets and bombs?
Yes, it is appalling, although our bullets and bombs stopped killing Iraqi children long ago. For some time now it has been the increasingly diminishing actions of foreign Arab insurgents that has been killing Iraqi civilians. In any case, that in no way makes the domestic killing of little kids in numbers far beyond anything the war did, any more pallatable or right.
Both are equally wrong and equally horrific. Both demonstrate the epitome of very poor problem solving techniques. Life is precious, both before and after birth.
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I agree with Calvin, I too saw nothing in this thread that hints at racism. I belong to a family that is both multiracial and multicultural. For me, Princess Di's comments were way off base. Sometimes we see what we expect to see, rather than what is actually taking place.
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I'd like to see them. My Inbox was flooded daily by the ones filled with rumors and lies about Obama, but I didn't see the ones about McCain and Palin. Where are the websites that direct hate, vitrol and vicious language at McCain and Palin? I'd like to see them.
Go look back over the archived news on any of hundreds of news sites. Go to MSNBC, CBS, LA Times. Over the last couple months I saw many of them. Did you see the green shirts that said something about Palin that I can't repeat on this site?
Both are equally wrong and equally horrific. Both demonstrate the epitome of very poor problem solving techniques. Life is precious, both before and after birth.
Which means that Obama and his policies are no better than Bush or McCain's, right? In this case, Obama's policies will kill millions more innocent kids than Bush and all his bombs and bullets ever did.
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These debates reflect one of the reasons why churches should never be used as a platform for promotion of any political party or candidate. No matter which side you come down on, there will be policies and practices put in place by the politic of your choice that are immoral and unethical.
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All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?
Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"
Precisely, Habanero! And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present. This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic. While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution. Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!
Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.
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Grammy,
Check with Fox news as all the media that was there said and witnessed that it was a horrible trick and they can prove it did not happen.
And by the way. The very first slickie of a lie. Obama just announced that it would take the second term to keep his promises. What now?? What happened??
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I'd like to see them. My Inbox was flooded daily by the ones filled with rumors and lies about Obama, but I didn't see the ones about McCain and Palin. Where are the websites that direct hate, vitrol and vicious language at McCain and Palin? I'd like to see them.
Go look back over the archived news on any of hundreds of news sites. Go to MSNBC, CBS, LA Times. Over the last couple months I saw many of them. Did you see the green shirts that said something about Palin that I can't repeat on this site?
Both are equally wrong and equally horrific. Both demonstrate the epitome of very poor problem solving techniques. Life is precious, both before and after birth.
Which means that Obama and his policies are no better than Bush or McCain's, right? In this case, Obama's policies will kill millions more innocent kids than Bush and all his bombs and bullets ever did.
Are you certain that Obama's policies are as some have represented them? I read a blog linked by Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/06/did-obama-really-back-mor_n_111061.html) that raises doubts that they are. In fact, the article indicates that Obama is attempting, with the bill he has written/sponsored, to narrow the scope of the late term abortions.
The abortion issue is a meter to the value any nation puts on life, just as the wars any nation engages in are a telling measure of the fabric of its character. Life is precious until one is laid to rest from natural causes. Yes, there are times when we must go to war. Did we really need to kill hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians with those two new bombs? From all historical indications, that country was already about to fail from being so far overextended in its conflicts. This country drug its collective feet for far too long with Hitler before finally rising to a noble cause. We had undeniable justification to engage in the fight against terrorism in Afghanistan. However, history will tell us whether or not it was truly appropriate to invade Iraq and overthrow the lout we helped put in power there. All indications are that it was not a war we should have started.
Politics and religion both raise passions to levels that can cause conflicts. We have clearly seen that when the two are lumped together there tends to be a meltdown of common decency. Rather than villify and condemn the candidates or the people who vote for them, it is far less divisive to allow each individual to study the characters and policies of each one and then simply vote their conscience.
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All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?
Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"
Precisely, Habanero! And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present. This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic. While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution. Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!
Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.
Grandma,
You are preaching hard today, ease up a bit on the brethren there a bit.... :help: But then should we just ignore the signs of the times and let the end come with no signal fires.........hmmmm
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Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.
Ah yes, 1960 JFK, I was just 8yo then. Remember it clearly, the only time my mother and grandmother voted for a republican in Richard Nixon. JFK was going to be the first catholic president, surely this was the beginning of the time of the end. John Kerry is Catholic (4 years ago) and so is Joe Biden, and not a mention in Adventist circles.. go figure.
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All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?
Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"
Precisely, Habanero! And in applying this expectation to every significant world event we both cheapen the prophecy in the eyes of each generation and short circuit our very present. This keeps us off balance and our focus narrow and unrealistic. While one's eyes need to be properly focused on God, on living in this world in a manner that contributes to the edification of humanity and on seeing the true big picture, they are, instead, focused on the next possible anti-Christ or political issue that may bring about the Sunday Law or other endtime persecution. Yes, exactly like the little boy who cried "wolf"!
Oh, btw, we mustn't forget that JFK, with his connections to the RCC, was also going to be the last President.
Grandma,
You are preaching hard today, ease up a bit on the brethren there a bit.... :help: But then should we just ignore the signs of the times and let the end come with no signal fires.........hmmmm
Well, bless your heart, son, for your concern. However, this is only my 6th post in this thread. I'm stating my opinions on things that have been presented by others. That's the point of a forum, right?
Might be a good idea to save some wood for signaling the actual end of all things and, in the meantime, focus on fulfilling the Gospel commission (you know, the one about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc).
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Are you certain that Obama's policies are as some have represented them? I read a blog linked by Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/06/did-obama-really-back-mor_n_111061.html) that raises doubts that they are. In fact, the article indicates that Obama is attempting, with the bill he has written/sponsored, to narrow the scope of the late term abortions.
I lived in IL when Obama was in the statehouse and when this issue came to a the state senate in 2001 and 2002. Obama supported the most radical of abortion bills I have ever seen. These were bills that would stop doctors from being able to provide life support and care for infants who survived abortion attempts. I was following those bills and watched their rise and fall. I carefully watched who supported them, and Obama's support was consistent. His record speaks for itself. There is no interpreting that away, nor do I believe for one moment that he wouldn't support it again, as he has never done or said anything on the record to show definitively that his position has changed.
I simply cannot grasp that a man would require that a baby be left on a table to cry until it dies, and make it a crime for anyone to help that baby. Can you? Do you support that? Do you support putting people in a position to make that the law who have made that the consistent record of what they want as law? I don't understand how you could, but I guess I wasn't put on this earth to understand everything.
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On the other hand, I think it is good that honest debate is finally arising. During the race it seemed almost a taboo thing to voice actual opinions, but now we are finally talking about these things and I think that is healthy. There is such a variety of thought and reasoning represented even in small groups. Very interesting.
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All that aside, we SDAs do have this propensity for latching onto anything new and declaring it the sign that we have reached the end of time. All my life I have lived with that and seen that. But that is how it has always been. The diciples thought Jesus would return in their lives. Every time Rome fell, they thought it was the end of all time because they were the center of the true church and the greatest power on earth. When the Bulgarian hordes and their Central European allies surrounded Byzantium, it was the end of time, because this city was the center of the true church and was now the greatest power on earth. When the Koresh compound went down in flames, the inhabitants knew that this was the beginning of the apocalypse. When Carter was elected, he was to be the last President for SDA reason that I don't remember. When Reagan was elected, he was going to bring on the national Sunday law. When Bush was elected, he was the former head of the CIA so he was going to institute a KGB/Gulag situation. When Clinton was elected, he was going to turn the country over to our enemies and bring on the end of time because he was going to be anti-American and weak. When GW Bush was elected, he was going to be the last president because he would not allow another election. He would create a terrorist incident and declare marshall law so that he could stay in power indefinitely and be a total dictator. Now we have Obama. Who will be next?
Have we ever heard the story of the little boy who cried "wolf?"
AMEN!! I remember when I was in high school being at the Oregon Conference Campmeeting and a speaker in the youth tent said that the civil rights movement would bring the end and would cause the signing of the Sunday Laws that were ready and waiting to be signed.
Whether you agree with Obama's politics or not it was a great moment in history.
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Calvin,
The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.
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I simply cannot grasp that a man would require that a baby be left on a table to cry until it dies, and make it a crime for anyone to help that baby. Can you? Do you support that? Do you support putting people in a position to make that the law who have made that the consistent record of what they want as law? I don't understand how you could, but I guess I wasn't put on this earth to understand everything.
No, I don't agree with any law that forces anyone to allow a viable child to lay on a table in such trauma until it dies. I don't know the background of the laws that were created to demand such or make any pretense to understanding them. I don't personally agree with abortion except in very specific circumstances but it is presently the law of this land. It is a poor solution to a far larger problem that needs to be addressed.
I also don't agree with capital punishment because the taking of a life should be left in the hands of our Creator. I know I may have opened a can of vegieworms with that one, but it's how I feel. But that again is presently the law of the land, at least in some states.
I don't agree with how we run some of our wars, as I've mention in a recent post. We still don't value all life enough. Yes, I know the OT is full of examples where the COI were told to wipe out young and old alike. Someday I will ask Him "what's up with that?".
I suppose that a win-win solution to these issues would be to completely outlaw abortion, have the various branches of the military responsible for delivering and raising the unwanted children as soldiers and put the death row inmates on the front lines of battles without helmets or body armor. Of course, this is a ludicrous solution that would solve nothing.
Yes, Habanero, it is a good thing to have healthy debate. All of us can learn by honestly and openly looking at the issues.
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Calvin,
The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.
Tinka,
I can only assume you must have misunderstood my post. Kennedy's election as president as the first RCC cause much fear in the SDA church at the time. Sunday laws would be enforced and SDAs would face persecution, etc. My mother told me now almost 50 years ago that I would never growup into manhood, the Lord would be here by then.
Was not referring to his assination.
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Calvin,
The Kennedys were not assinated because of being a Catholic!! But their politics were as they did turncoat for the people. And then it was realized.
Excuuuuuuuse me? Are you saying what I think you are saying? That the Kennedys deserved to be assinated?
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Calvin,
What perticular sign are you looking for?
Grammy,
I don't agree the way the war was handled. But agree for freedom for all people when you see the cry for help. How do you feel when the Lord had the enemy all destroyed, man, women, children? Can you understand why he did this. I can. All I can say is that it is horribly heartsickening to know and see Adventist in complete diversities. I also know that He will let us believe a lie when our heart is not right for truth. I absolutely made a bargin with the Lord and prayed that if I studied and read for truth that he would not let me believe a lie. I constantly feel uplifted with his word. My mind will roll with the truth and I can feel it. He knows when the mind is seared and that is why I probably will not spend much time more on these issues. I sort of like to delve into why Adventist can not agree on certain doctrines and EGW. and the theivery of the church. I could really tell you a few just like 3abn. But we protected the church for many many years only to realize it was a mistake!
That also is why I condone Gailon and Bob to do what they can. We have seen the results when it is let go!!
I simply could see that many have not followed but bits and pieces of knowledge to guide them in important facts for life. Show me all the facts.
Oh, and I agree, I do not believe in capital punishment anymore either because of the corruption in the courts. They did not even follow their own rules in the trial of Jesus. You must have 3 witness before death.
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Tinka,
I am not looking for any particular signs. I try to order my life everyday as if He where to come today and spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ in my sphere of influence. This is what He commanded us to do in Matt 24.
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Calvin,
This is not the correct wording but the way I understand is that we will be having much calamities, corruption, and disasters so much that military will be brought in and then force all to get back to Godly lifestyles. That is what brings in the Sunday Law. So you see when Kennedy was president we almost had a calamity but none to go along with bringing in the militia. or military to control the public so that was not one of the signs.
I do thank you for your post, I know that I am abrubt in questions that nobody really has to answer. But I can tell you one thing that it pains my chest to realize the diversities still within. I don't think that racism will stop with non christian until the Lord comes. But to have it in the remnant just won't work. I love people. I do not want them to suffer. I like when people are happy. But, now don't fall over but I also listened to the president of Iran. He has watched the greed and collapse of Wall street. The people have been oppressed through the Economy of which one man did not control alone. He just took the blame. At least now Obama claims another flip flop that he will not be able to keep his promises now until after 2 terms. I sure hope that Jesus comes before that. In fact that very well could be before the people destroy themselves in racism from all races.
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Grat,
Absolutely not!! Read again. Actually Ol Joe there father was involved with, well I'll just plain say the word Mafia in the time of prohibition of Booze, It is a known fact on documentary's that he wanted the favor for his sons to be president. Kennedy's were helped if you want to term it that way. Turned out the Kennedy boys did a turncoat and did a great thing and cleaned organized crime with some of the Mafia bosses jailed. It was then realized by the favor for ole Joe that "hey" these boys turned on us. Kennedys cleaned up the mess or organized crime and worked for the good of America. Two good men were assassinated. Believe it or not.
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What some of the world is thinking...
The women on The View (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-wjcm9hAG0)
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Nettie,
I definitely will comment on this. I did not realize what Women on the view was or something to click on until I saw the hand to click.
Is this the filth you want people to click on. I cannot believe you did this on these posts or look at this. Filthy language and all and filled with racism. You have defined yourself and do not derserve any answers from anyone. :o
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Nettie,
I definitely will comment on this. I did not realize what Women on the view was or something to click on until I saw the hand to click.
Is this the filth you want people to click on. I cannot believe you did this on these posts or look at this. Filthy language and all and filled with racism. You have defined yourself and do not derserve any answers from anyone. :o
What are you talking about? What filth? What racism? I saw this yesterday and watched it again just now because I thought I might have missed something. All I saw was these women discussing the big news of the day and they were clearly moved by what had happened. Whether you agree with his politics, to have a black man elected as President in light of how they were treated for years was something to see. I thought it was very moving when Sheri talked about looking at her son and realizing that yes, he can be anything he wants to be. He will not be held back because of his skin color. I'm not sure where you are coming from but I think it is you who have defined yourself.
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What some of the world is thinking...
The women on The View (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-wjcm9hAG0)
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post...good grief. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
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I agree with that assessment of "The View". I used to really enjoy the program when the original group was still there. But lately all it seems to be is a scheduled, televised cat fight.
However, I watched the first half of the You Tube video provided by GrandmaNettie, and I have to agree with GRAT that Sherri's emotion really got to me as well. The feeling of liberation that must come to our black brothers and sisters with this election is something I will never be able to experience. They have carried a burden I will never be required to carry, and I think they have a right to be proud. I would not have voted for Obama, but my choice had nothing to do with his race.
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
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I came back because I don't cut and run. I wanted to see the responses, and clarify any questions and/or misconceptions. By the look of these responses, some sensitivity training is needed.
Princessdi,
Your words make it well known where you are and who and what you voted for. Obama was elected because of racism coming mostly from Black America. Christian people voted for Character, a way of life from Bibical standards. What we or I voted against is premediated for years ahead for Acorn to accomplish a hidden agenda, eastern Connections, double talk, lying, concealing of what I believe is not even born in USA. Check out court dockets in PA. Nothing was up front with this guy. High taxes, spread the wealth, control, change the world. (Did you believe he could change the world with unbiblical agenda.) We Christians will be able to stand and get through this but my only thought is will you? I hope you have no illusion that Black Americia or any ones skin color will exempt you from Obama's and His liberal Democratic tax and spin policies. Ready to give up freedom of speach? For those who thought to get freebies. There is nothing free!!
Ok so, I can't speak for Black America, But I can speak for Diane, and most of the folks in my little circle. We did not vote for Obama because he is black. I, for one, did not support Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton in their shortlived bids for the presidency, they were not the best choice. Obama is. It is as simple as that. Next thing is, he is as much white as he is black. Apparently the "onedrop rule" is in effect in your world, becuase basically you all just discount his white mother and family to whom he is very close..
Democratic tax and "spend" and freedom of "speech" Let's take the tax and spend........Yes I totally agree with it, because it is generally for programs to assit those less fortunate "people" You know, as in government for the "people" by the "people". incase you ALL forgot taxes are how a democracy pays for things. it's citizens share the costs.....through taxes. They have already been paid on a sliding scale, those with more pay more. Simple. Bush thought, and so did McCain that giving more money to the rich people, big business would mwan propserity for everyone. Rich people kept getting richer, and big business took that money, got greedy and outsource their jobs, to India,, Bangladesh, anywhere but the good ole USA who was giving them all these tax breaks. So now the are taking the money given to them by "the people" and stabbing "the people" in the back by making them jobless. Something is wrong with that picture. We defintiely need something different.
You are really going to have to expalin the losing freedom of speech comment. Bush slid all that into the Patriot Act, not Obama.
Christians voted on Principles as I have read these posts of many.
Christian can vote on principles. However, they should not be expecting their president to uphold their religious beliefs. You know that pesky little thing called "separation of church and state" First, it is a slippery slope, because who's religious beliefs is he going to uphold? Baptist, Methodists, Catholics, JWs, and we all know none of those are enough for SDAs. So it doesn't work. Secondly, Our own end time prophecy depends on the erasing on the lines between church and state, does it not? I can understand if you are trying to hasten the Lord's Coming, Otherwse we should stay clear of any law that would erase this line. Once adopted it is not a stretch to "day of worship". Especially once they start making laws based on what happens in the privacy of ones home..........
I have very close amazing Black friends that do not think this way. They are not Adventist. In fact you would not want her to be turned loose on these sort of posts. I have been correcting, critiquing, her book for her that soon comes out. Go to www.mainstreetfedup.biz. This is just an introduction to her finished book possible coming out by next week. She gets it.
LESSON #1: When faced with being considered racist NEVER, EVER, refer to your black friends. The presence of black people in your life, DOES NOT mean you are not racist. There were blacks who helped the slave traders to capture other blacks, in Africa, there were slaves who "informed' the massah when other slaves were planning to "run" if they got wind of it. There were blacks who thought that we should not fight for civil rights......."White folks treat us alright.........if we stay in our place", they said.............there are blacks who pride themselves on not being like "other blacks", as they are told by their white friends. I am almost positive these are words that OJ heard form his white friends.......until they thought( and still think ) he killed a white woman. Once again, and more plainly, put. When facing an accusation of being racist to say, I have black friends, is the MOST racist statement you can make. Resist the urge. Tinka, your statement here proves my point. "I have a black friend and they don't think like those other black people". I am sure you let her know on many occasions how much you appreciate that.
And for all of you like Calvin's posts also that think in the terms these uneduacated whites of racism, go to the Web site and read her story as she discovers the realms of the Economy and why, where and what has happened to America financially. (Obama's Agenda)
The broad picture here is voters did not vote for Principles but Racism.
and it detailed where we are in the end of History as a whole because of the lack of principles. Again I ask, Did you think that USA would not be corrupted totally before Jesus comes.
I reject being called racist. I voted for Freedom!!! for all.
I believe the USA is pretty corrupt at this moment, or at least a lion's share of it's leadership. I guess it can get worse, however, right now, we have a ray of hope in a new direction. Even if it doesn't work, at least we won't be because we dug ourselves a bigger hole with the same of mistakes. But, out blessed hope if in christ Jesus, wee need to prayer for our President elect. No sense in crying about it now, it is what it is. Pray for him, he IS your brother is Christ, and as he says we ALL will ahve to work together to get us onthe right track.
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No, no, no.....But I think you can measure the rest of thw women by them. They are all very different, they do represent a lot of groups of owmen in this world.....including Elizabeth. Now, I don't watch this show everyday, but I like that they are not afriad to have women on there who don't always agree on everything, and still can respect each other. Would you and SSOM prefer that they ALL be like Elizabeth?
I agree with that assessment of "The View". I used to really enjoy the program when the original group was still there. But lately all it seems to be is a scheduled, televised cat fight.
However, I watched the first half of the You Tube video provided by GrandmaNettie, and I have to agree with GRAT that Sherri's emotion really got to me as well. The feeling of liberation that must come to our black brothers and sisters with this election is something I will never be able to experience. They have carried a burden I will never be required to carry, and I think they have a right to be proud. I would not have voted for Obama, but my choice had nothing to do with his race.
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
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Di, I totally agree with you!!
But, out blessed hope if in christ Jesus, wee need to prayer for our President elect. No sense in crying about it now, it is what it is. Pray for him, he IS your brother is Christ, and as he says we ALL will ahve to work together to get us onthe right track.[/color]
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Di,
I obviously can't speak for SSOM. And I can honestly say I have no preference about who anybody is like on that show because I don't watch it anymore. The most I have seen of it lately are the 5 minutes I watched of the clip provided by GrandmaNettie and all of the bad press they have gotten in recent months because they are always at each other's throats.
No, no, no.....But I think you can measure the rest of thw women by them. They are all very different, they do represent a lot of groups of owmen in this world.....including Elizabeth. Now, I don't watch this show everyday, but I like that they are not afriad to have women on there who don't always agree on everything, and still can respect each other. Would you and SSOM prefer that they ALL be like Elizabeth?
I agree with that assessment of "The View". I used to really enjoy the program when the original group was still there. But lately all it seems to be is a scheduled, televised cat fight.
However, I watched the first half of the You Tube video provided by GrandmaNettie, and I have to agree with GRAT that Sherri's emotion really got to me as well. The feeling of liberation that must come to our black brothers and sisters with this election is something I will never be able to experience. They have carried a burden I will never be required to carry, and I think they have a right to be proud. I would not have voted for Obama, but my choice had nothing to do with his race.
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post...OMG. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
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I changed my mind about commenting here...................for one thing I misread something........Hehehe!!
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post...good grief. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
[/quote]
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No, no, no.....But I think you can measure the rest of thw women by them. They are all very different, they do represent a lot of groups of owmen in this world.....including Elizabeth. Now, I don't watch this show everyday, but I like that they are not afriad to have women on there who don't always agree on everything, and still can respect each other. Would you and SSOM prefer that they ALL be like Elizabeth?
I agree with that assessment of "The View". I used to really enjoy the program when the original group was still there. But lately all it seems to be is a scheduled, televised cat fight.
However, I watched the first half of the You Tube video provided by GrandmaNettie, and I have to agree with GRAT that Sherri's emotion really got to me as well. The feeling of liberation that must come to our black brothers and sisters with this election is something I will never be able to experience. They have carried a burden I will never be required to carry, and I think they have a right to be proud. I would not have voted for Obama, but my choice had nothing to do with his race.
This program has gone down hill rapidly over the past few years - except for Elizabeth, the rest have very little respect from anyone.
You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not. Nice try. This show was also a tool used to promote a specific candidate and his wife, and it wasn't John and Cindy McCain. They were treated horribly while BO and his wife were flerted with and treated like royalty and rock stars. Time and time again, it's very clear they have no problem judging people without much fact.
And I see you quoted something regarding the Huffington post...OMG. That women has lost her mind long ago and she uses her paper as nothing but a far left hate agenda tool. Of course, I'm sure it's only my opinion, right!?
What I would prefer is that they act civil, have their discussions respectfully and treat people decently. Barbara Walters, whom I once respected as someone who treated people decently, would not even look at John McCain in the eyes when she talked to him while he was there. She read a teleprompter (and we know she is good with her questions without having to look so staged). I found they often treat people different people differently, with different standards. I found that they used their show to push for what they wanted, and often had very little facts to support what they flung out there for laughs and claps. That is a disgrace. Now, if they just want to be there for total entertainment purposes, then they shouldn't attempt to talk about such important issues as to really unravel something, or learn something. It's often just a cat fight, and it has grown tiring. It's usually a 3 or more on 1 when it comes to anything conservative, and I feel they have it set up that way so that they have a superior and affirmed feeling of their opinions. It's like that show is really there for THEM, not for anyone else. Not saying there won't be people that like that sort of thing, but I feel that group is a lot smaller then people might realize.
If you want to watch it, that's fine with me, no worries. But, I still don't think it's a good measuring rod of americas women. In fact, I think it's quite misleading to assume that that show represents the "masses" out there. I know very little people who can watch it that do watch it (and most aren't even christians if that means anything).
It's a shame that you assume the pubs have Fox News. I watch it so I know it's fair. I hear from both sides of every thing all the time, like it or not.
More people should watch it for themselves instead of listening to what others say Fox is all about.
I have no idea what you mean about calling BO out of his name? Explain please?
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As I said, I almost forgot the show was on when I was home an dunemployed, but I do like that they all rea differently and dont' always agree. Makes for a good show when I do watch.
As I said before I misread something, Darlin', just forgive a sleepy old Di, please!
What I would prefer is that they act civil, have their discussions respectfully and treat people decently. Barbara Walters, whom I once respected as someone who treated people decently, would not even look at John McCain in the eyes when she talked to him while he was there. She read a teleprompter (and we know she is good with her questions without having to look so staged). I found they often treat people different people differently, with different standards. I found that they used their show to push for what they wanted, and often had very little facts to support what they flung out there for laughs and claps. That is a disgrace. Now, if they just want to be there for total entertainment purposes, then they shouldn't attempt to talk about such important issues as to really unravel something, or learn something. It's often just a cat fight, and it has grown tiring. It's usually a 3 or more on 1 when it comes to anything conservative, and I feel they have it set up that way so that they have a superior and affirmed feeling of their opinions. It's like that show is really there for THEM, not for anyone else. Not saying there won't be people that like that sort of thing, but I feel that group is a lot smaller then people might realize.
If you want to watch it, that's fine with me, no worries. But, I still don't think it's a good measuring rod of americas women. In fact, I think it's quite misleading to assume that that show represents the "masses" out there. I know very little people who can watch it that do watch it (and most aren't even christians if that means anything).
It's a shame that you assume the pubs have Fox News. I watch it so I know it's fair. I hear from both sides of every thing all the time, like it or not.
More people should watch it for themselves instead of listening to what others say Fox is all about.
I have no idea what you mean about calling BO out of his name? Explain please?
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Di.... :puppykisses: !!!!
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I love you Di, really I do ;D
As I said, I almost forgot the show was on when I was home an dunemployed, but I do like that they all rea differently and dont' always agree. Makes for a good show when I do watch.
As I said before I misread something, Darlin', just forgive a sleepy old Di, please!
What I would prefer is that they act civil, have their discussions respectfully and treat people decently. Barbara Walters, whom I once respected as someone who treated people decently, would not even look at John McCain in the eyes when she talked to him while he was there. She read a teleprompter (and we know she is good with her questions without having to look so staged). I found they often treat people different people differently, with different standards. I found that they used their show to push for what they wanted, and often had very little facts to support what they flung out there for laughs and claps. That is a disgrace. Now, if they just want to be there for total entertainment purposes, then they shouldn't attempt to talk about such important issues as to really unravel something, or learn something. It's often just a cat fight, and it has grown tiring. It's usually a 3 or more on 1 when it comes to anything conservative, and I feel they have it set up that way so that they have a superior and affirmed feeling of their opinions. It's like that show is really there for THEM, not for anyone else. Not saying there won't be people that like that sort of thing, but I feel that group is a lot smaller then people might realize.
If you want to watch it, that's fine with me, no worries. But, I still don't think it's a good measuring rod of americas women. In fact, I think it's quite misleading to assume that that show represents the "masses" out there. I know very little people who can watch it that do watch it (and most aren't even christians if that means anything).
It's a shame that you assume the pubs have Fox News. I watch it so I know it's fair. I hear from both sides of every thing all the time, like it or not.
More people should watch it for themselves instead of listening to what others say Fox is all about.
I have no idea what you mean about calling BO out of his name? Explain please?
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Lol! If you wanted to drive me insane or torture me for information you could tie me down and make me watch The View. Oy! Can't stand that show, but hey, I like shows that you wouldn't like. My favourite channel on the tube is History International. I know that lots of people are bored to tears by that kind of TV.
As to the Kennedys, the orginal statement regarding JFK was that people thought he was going to bring on the end of time. Lol! I was not around back in those days, but I bet the same SDAs who have prdicted each president since then would be "the one" really went nuts over him.
That brings me back to the topic of apocalyptic fears about each president. I am somewhat alarmed by some of the tactics I see that fit with other patterns, but I will not discuss that now. But, I do take issue with the use of every new thing as another means of trying to terrify people into submission to whatever apocalyptic direction a person or group wants them to take.
We live in a time of unprecedented peace on this earth. There are fewer and smaller wars, we haven't had a major natural disaster in over a century, economies go up and down but globally they are holding well above lines that would be disastrous. I don't buy into the idea that we are in a time of terrible turmoil. Being an avid student of world history, that doesn't wash with me.
Since WW2 there have been a few minor wars and that is all. Up through WW2 wars were conducted with the policy of targeting the civilians and killing as many of them as possible, and through most of history, the victors walked away with all of the conquered nation's valuables, including the young people as slaves. Now civilian casualties are largely avoided, we rebuild the conquered country, take nothing from them, tax our own people to provide for the people we conquered and the issue of slavery is moot. Also, with U.S. military bases and carrier fleets completely surrounding the globe, other super-powers present and keeping control of their allies, and the ever present threat of nuclear anihilation, war and unrest is kept to a minimum. All of us super powers have allies with assets and business that we have to protect and that keeps most of the world in a forced state of peace.
The last major natural disaster occured in 1883. The island of Krakatau blew in a volcanic eruption that was heard over 3,000 miles away. It spread ash and sulfur around the entire world within days and caused a global drop in temperature that resulted in famines and a huge death toll globally. The earth's temperature did not normalize for five years. This came on the heels of a mini ice age that had taken the lives of millions, but actually resulted in the emergence of the potato as an accepted food because it was an underground crop that could grow in the very short summers they had and survive the cold. Prior to that, there was the black plague that decimated many of the earth's populations and is actually considered one of the factors in bringing about the ice age as millions of acres of farmland returned to forest as the populations died off. Going back further we see where terrible super volcanoes like Yellowstone would have eliminated most living things on entire continents, there were asteroid strikes like the one in the Gulf of Mexico that would have created a wall of water over 5,000 feet high that washed across the North American continent and was only stopped by the Rocky mountain range. We could go on and on.
Then there is the matter of religious persecution. We are in a period of the least violence in religious persecution in millenia. Although there are pockets of violent religious persecution in in several Muslim countries, even where repression exists in countries like China, it is moderate.
The point of all this being that we do not live in a time when all heck is breaking loose on the earth and when there are wars and rumours of wars, and pestilence, and natural disasters like never before.
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BTW, on another topic that came up, I also disagree with the death penalty almost across the board. In far too many cases innocent people have been executed, and if there is even the slightest possibility that that will occur, I don't believe that it should be allowed. The only thing worse than the original murder is when we the people murder an innocent person for a crime they never committed. The much maligned former governor of IL (a Republican) put a moratorium on Capital punishment because of this issue and I was very glad to see a politician go out on a limb over that.
On the other hand, I agree with TX law that allows people to defend their lives, family and property by shooting and killing burglars, intruders, rapists, etc during the commission of the crime.
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Any crime in particular, Habanero? :)
On the other hand, I agree with TX law that allows people to defend their lives, family and property by shooting and killing burglars, intruders, rapists, etc during the commission of the crime.
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BTW, on another topic that came up, I also disagree with the death penalty almost across the board. In far too many cases innocent people have been executed, and if there is even the slightest possibility that that will occur, I don't believe that it should be allowed. The only thing worse than the original murder is when we the people murder an innocent person for a crime they never committed. The much maligned former governor of IL (a Republican) put a moratorium on Capital punishment because of this issue and I was very glad to see a politician go out on a limb over that.
On the other hand, I agree with TX law that allows people to defend their lives, family and property by shooting and killing burglars, intruders, rapists, etc during the commission of the crime.
Off the topic, but relating to Haby's post; I use to feel this way until I sat on a jury of a man who killed his three small children and wife, stuffed them in suitcases, tied two of his children (age 3 and 5) in blankets and with small boulders tied to their legs, threw them in the ocean and the bay. After 6 weeks of that being on the jury, I had to wrestle with that whole issue of the death penalty. I was the foreman of that jury, and it was one of the most difficult times in my life.
I am of the conviction that there are clear times where it applies. We gave him the death penalty. The decision was not driven by emotion. It was driven by justice and protection for others to come if he were to be free one day. I have no doubt he would have been free at some point, one way or another if we had not given him that sentence too. So, while he clearly deserved that sentence, it also served to protect other possible victims just as a bonus (for lack of a better word).
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BTW, on another topic that came up, I also disagree with the death penalty almost across the board. In far too many cases innocent people have been executed, and if there is even the slightest possibility that that will occur, I don't believe that it should be allowed. The only thing worse than the original murder is when we the people murder an innocent person for a crime they never committed. The much maligned former governor of IL (a Republican) put a moratorium on Capital punishment because of this issue and I was very glad to see a politician go out on a limb over that.
On the other hand, I agree with TX law that allows people to defend their lives, family and property by shooting and killing burglars, intruders, rapists, etc during the commission of the crime.
Off the topic, but relating to Haby's post; I use to feel this way until I sat on a jury of a man who killed his three small children and wife, stuffed them in suitcases, tied two of his children (age 3 and 5) in blankets and with small boulders tied to their legs, threw them in the ocean and the bay. After 6 weeks of that being on the jury, I had to wrestle with that whole issue of the death penalty. I was the foreman of that jury, and it was one of the most difficult times in my life.
I am of the conviction that there are clear times where it applies. We gave him the death penalty. The decision was not driven by emotion. It was driven by justice and protection for others to come if he were to be free one day. I have no doubt he would have been free at some point, one way or another if we had not given him that sentence too. So, while he clearly deserved that sentence, it also served to protect other possible victims just as a bonus (for lack of a better word).
How horrible! I will take this opportunity to point out that I used the words "almost across the board." There are most certainly situations in which I not only agree with the death penalty but consider it to be the only acceptable option.
(My apologies to any who were offended and upset at the expression of shock I just edited out of the above post.)
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We saw in the news that the PR man of bin Laden had been given a life sentence - prison for life. Was that a just sentence?
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Btw, a small addendum to the very long post in which I illterated the various reasons that I see that we are living in a time of global peace.
Although many people, including a startling number of Americans, despise this country for who and what it is and does, it is the United States of America and its military that are largely responsible for the changes in the manner in which war is conducted. We have led the way in ceasing from targeting civilians, we are the only country on earth that has made a point of taxing our own civilians to rebuild the countries we have conquered, we have torn down and eliminated governments who execute war in the old fashioned way of trying to kill as many civilians as possible
(Like Saddam Hussein and his war against his own people), and we have used our military bases and carrier fleets to keep war and killing down to a minimum. Peaceful, I know that you and other have issues with the Iraq war and claim that we had no right or reason to fight it, but now we have the Iraqi people themselves targeting and eliminating Al Qaeda, and we have them as our most powerful Arab ally in the Middle East as we seek to keep peace in a region that has been at war for thousands of years. You can say what you like about Afghanistan, but we have already accomp;ished the impossible there. That country was the Soviet Union's Vietnam, and when we went in, Russia warned us of the futility of our mission. In a few months we accomplished what the Soviet Union couldn't do in years, we crushed the Afghan regime, threw them out and established a government that is friendly to us works as our ally in pursuing and dealing with our enemies in that region. Our government, our military and the wars that we have executed in the last eight years have been very successful, and despite the self hatred that permeates so much of American society, I am very proud to be an American, proud of who and what we are, proud of the job that our military has done, proud that we have done what we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, and know that without us and the policies that so may hate about us, this world would truly be in terrible turmoil.
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Nettie,
I definitely will comment on this. I did not realize what Women on the view was or something to click on until I saw the hand to click.
Is this the filth you want people to click on. I cannot believe you did this on these posts or look at this. Filthy language and all and filled with racism. You have defined yourself and do not derserve any answers from anyone. :o
Grat, When I clicked on your link that did not appear at first to be a link, it took me into you tube with whoopie, and all the horrible comments, racism, and filthy language . Now don't tell me that links must bring up something different. As far as the view goes it is damaging for anyone to watch if you think the link went there! No wonder you have your idea's of sorts. You become what you watch. Including the liberal media that did what they did. All you have to do is get bits and pieces to know when to turn the channel.
Also it is now apparent how most of you think. Why did you not think it was possible for Black to be President? Skin color? That is what is so amazing. We are not back in time. Your background or stigma of slavery has been over for years and years. Do you not realize that good men founght for this equality Most people have stigma's they do not like in their life but good minds know they cannot dwell on it and its over. It appears you have and Sherri and Ophrah and many look at the color of their own skin and come up with these impossibilities. Until you consider all equal in your own minds and in the site of God you will not get rid of racism. And you all waited for Obama to do this for you? What happened to Jesus and what he did for all????? Yes, I make no bones about defining my self. My black friends think how I do. My black friends are intelligent and they knew also the agenda. We don't even look at each other as what ever was in the past before we were born. Obama depended on Black America to think exactely like you and Calvin are stating. In fact Obama felt this way too. He is NOT Martin L King. Obamas arrogrance that came accros came from using what he did and all followed with the wrong unbibical policies that they did not even care what it was and that will put all the po folk back into slavery. Set back and watch what happens now for jobs and economy if he is able to put his policies into gear. He is already on the excuse mill. telling all will have to wait until he gets to the end of 2 term. What a bubble burster for you all.
That is why racism is still here and people that think like this is still under the spell of Lucifer. This is one of the best wins the old devil has accomplished to divert the people of God. You let Obama prove this to you under a false cloak??? We are talking principles of politics here. This is tough talk because I hate racism probably worst then you do. I know it will keep people from eternity. Think I do not realize the plight. I pledge alligence to the flag....of the USA...ONe Nation under God, for Liberty and Justice for all. Do you not care way back to Lincoln what good folk fought for. Why is the chip still there? Now do you get it! This spell would not have been in Christian minds but thankful it all changed. At least ancesters were brought to America under what appeared to be the worst ever. The pilgrams came because of Oppression in Euope of the worst also. Both ventured to America by horrible means. You are now Americans the same as all that suffered some sort of plight. Why did you not get over your stigma like the pilgrams. Do you think the persecutions were different. Death is Death.
It was under God's plan that we were brought to a new land for new freedom. We do not know his ways on how he got us here but we just except it. Why don't you look at the broader picture and get over what ever the skin looks like. In fact I'm a little too chalky all has suffered one way or another through trials. What makes you so better that you chose not to realize and aknowledge what white people also suffered persecution because of Christian Stigma. Burned at the stake, etc.......I just did not like to be led to a link that was pure racism filth of all the horrible comments.
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Tinka, so much bitterness, doubt, skepticism, and fear. Fortunately, most people regardless of who they voted for are optimistic and hopeful that Obama can bring get us through the economic crisis and get us out of Iran. We did not get into these problems over night; it will take a while to get us out.
As for your comments on race, they are so ridiculous that it does not deserve commenting on.
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Calvin,
I did not expect to change spots. Sort of like the link I clicked on that was led by same distinction.
When you get us out there (Iraq)you will probably be fighting here.
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Nettie,
I definitely will comment on this. I did not realize what Women on the view was or something to click on until I saw the hand to click.
Is this the filth you want people to click on. I cannot believe you did this on these posts or look at this. Filthy language and all and filled with racism. You have defined yourself and do not derserve any answers from anyone. :o
What are you talking about? What filth? What racism? I saw this yesterday and watched it again just now because I thought I might have missed something. All I saw was these women discussing the big news of the day and they were clearly moved by what had happened. Whether you agree with his politics, to have a black man elected as President in light of how they were treated for years was something to see. I thought it was very moving when Sheri talked about looking at her son and realizing that yes, he can be anything he wants to be. He will not be held back because of his skin color. I'm not sure where you are coming from but I think it is you who have defined yourself.
Thank you, GRAT. While I could count the number of times I have watched The View on one hand, I certainly could not characterize it as "filth". My husband shared with me last evening the statement Whoopi Goldberg made, about having always felt like she was an American but now finally felt like she could put down her suitcase. Well, he tried to share it with me but he was so moved that his voice was choked and his face full of tears... When he did finally get it out I joined him with my own face full of tears. What he also found significant were Elizabeth Hasselbeck's (sp?) kind and conciliatory words rather than bitterness that her candidate had not been chosen. My husband was quite pleasantly surprised by them. It is the thoughts and reflections of those women I attempted to share by posting the link.
SSOM said "You can not measure america by these women, at least I seriously hope not."
What I said was "What some of the world is thinking..." I wasn't measuring America by the women on The View but they do represent the views of some women. Of course, each one of those women are Americans and, as such, each of their lives and each of their opinions holds equal value to the lives and opinions of any other citizen.
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The election is over now. What did Jesus request of us when it comes to government? Did the Roman government in the days fo Jesus do things that are even as bad as what Obama is accused of?
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Nettie,
I did not see what you claim was on there for the view I just saw a picture of whoopie I clicked off before watching such stuff after all the comments of all the people posting in what I described filth against Palin etc... I clicked off being overwhelmed with just that much. Evidently you did not observe all that you passed along to view. Total racism is what I read on left side of your link. I do not mess in U-tube. Whoopie, movie stars, just aren't my bag.
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So Tinka - you didn't watch what you are calling filth and racism and can make an informed decision on what was said? All you had to see was Whoopie and you just shut it off without knowing what was said? That is so ridiculous I can hardly even believe you are for real. I don't remember Palin's name being even mentioned on that clip. But I guess I'm not at holy as you and will be sent to hell because I have a different opinion than you. By the way, I did not vote for Obama, not because of the color of his skin but because I don't agree with democratic policys. I will defend with my life the right of others to have a different opinion than mine and still be able to be welcomed into the gates of heaven. And by the way, my skin is white as can be - Scandinavian decent.
You can in NO way equate the way that the pilgrims came to America, on a boat of their own free will, with the way most black people came over. Taken from their homes and country and shipped in the bottom of boats to be brought here and sold like cattle. Children or wives sold away from their families at the whim of their masters. Not considered human. Read history and see how long after they were emancipated that they even received basic rights, and then they had to fight and some die for them.
I don't expect to change your very closed mind and probably should have taken Calvin's road but just couldn't just let this pass.
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Grat,
YOU DO NOT READ WELL, I did not go as far as the whoope deal because there was all the posts of racism filthy language of black posters that took my attention first. Did you not notice what all,all,all, the link was about. Talk about closed mind and non observing. That was bad enough so I went no further and clicked off.
Also you do not know history well either. People came to America long ago because of Religious persecution. You evidently have not read GC. You have a hard time understanding what people are saying. No one denied one single bit the horrors of slavery. What also I am not denying is whites also suffered persecution because of religious stigma or what ever you want to call it. Many burned at the stake and horror also. Black persecution was here on this land and whites were persecuted in Europe. Both races ended up in the new America. Seems Black Persecution is the most remembered because they were last and here. What I am saying is both under different circumstances have suffered persecution. Its the difference how it has been handled by both. Do you think that persecution of religion has ever stopped? Soon it will be non stopable and everywhere. What do you think the US is fighting against the Radical terrorist groups in the name of Allah for? How long will this be delayed before it is in our own land??? Probably until the troups are brought home. I cringe with the war. War has been since Heaven. So you see their sacrifice for us is beyond honor. They know and have first hand what they are fighting for to some of great appreciation and even for all who take their freedom for granted...I stayed on here to see exactely what one poster said a while back. If any outsider ever came on here and saw the stance for sin they of course would never except the 3 angels message. I have never been on posts and I am appalled at the standing up and protection of theivery, rascim, links to whoope posters and off the wall opinions that do not go along with S of P. and who cares what whoope said. I now believe what the poster said. I just came across very ridgid because this racism should not be in the inner circles. But then maybe all are not Adventist. Who knows? I expected much more of a fellowship post then to run down truth seekers that expose the sin within. What I really discovered that people in Adventism should have stood up for Bible principles for votes like the Evangelicals and not because the color of skin would uplift a race of people just to be president no matter what the principles. I still cannot believe it but I fear that is a true fact.
Enterviews with person after person I am seing on tv claimg this very fact when asked why they voted.
I am for sure not Holier then thou. (That is always a good come back statement) In fact each day I am not sure of anything. I have seen too much of this with in the church, have been stung by it and still believe the message is correct. Other then at least I know the truth of people's character with out judging. But hurt inside. But I can assure you of one thing. If you or anyone cannot DISCERN you are lost. EGW books are the best books of patterns you can go by to do just that. DISCERN
And Johann, I did e-mail you back but not sure you got it as not so familiar with how it all works.
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I READ JUST FINE, you don't write in a manner that is easy to understand or follow. I also have a quite good understanding of history. I know that it is closed minded, rigid people like you that persecute those who do not agree with what they believe. Fortunately for me you will not be the one who judges whether I DISCERN or have read Ellen White Books to your satisfaction. You remind me of the people who will say to Jesus, But Lord, I stood up against "racism filthy language of black posters" in your name and read every word that Ellen White ever wrote so therefore I have Discernment and I voted like the Evangelicals. This is the last I have to say because you are a "know it all" and impossible to talk with. I feel sorry for you. :console:
By the way, you say "I did not go as far as the whoope deal" Well Tinka when you click on the View link the first person you see and who talks is Whoope so my point stands, you did not even see what you were trying to say was filth and racist.
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Tinka,
You remind me of someone I used to know. Do you think we have met?
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Mr. Calvin,
You are right. Most people voted not for an African-American but for hope and change. The wild-eyed fanatics who claim that African-Americans voted by a huge turnout for Mr. Obama because of his color have not bothered to look at the statistics. There was an increase of 1% in voters nationally. That is by no means a huge turnout.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/11/06/pdf.gansre08turnout.au.pdf (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/11/06/pdf.gansre08turnout.au.pdf)
The huge election victory of Mr. Obama was because a majority of voters of all colors voted in the hope that he will be able to deal with the problems our country faces.
I am also pleased that Mr. Gailon's favorite candidate Sarah Palin who was so ill-suited to lead this country did not come anywhere near governing the U.S.A. If I remember correctly, she thought Africa was a country.
Even though I am a Republican supporter and appreciate Mr. McCain's personal sacrifice for our country, I believe I had no choice but to support Mr. Obama. May God lead him to make the right decisions.
I am aware that Mr. Obama is of African and White origin. However that still makes him African-American in my view.
Tinka, so much bitterness, doubt, skepticism, and fear. Fortunately, most people regardless of who they voted for are optimistic and hopeful that Obama can bring get us through the economic crisis and get us out of Iran. We did not get into these problems over night; it will take a while to get us out.
As for your comments on race, they are so ridiculous that it does not deserve commenting on.
Edited to add link.
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Tinka,
You remind me of someone I used to know. Do you think we have met?
No, I doubt it, I have never spoken out anywhere until I saw all this garbage. Grat still can't get it in her head that I did not speak on what she saw but what I saw that caused me not to go any further with the link of Whoopi.
You know, someone on here asked a question and I think you all know who it is. They asked me so what can you do about 3abn, Call the GC, call 3abn, who and what can you do about anything... YOu know what she is right...Nobody. You can't stop the evil for sure unless someone stands up for it.
I think really Grat should send out her vile little link in mass e-mail that the posts jump out before you press the button for ole Whoope and get the feel from that. I have been able to discern several people on here that are coming from good Spirit.
Don't feel sorry for me as I can discern theivery, racsim, it's you that is on the other side of the fence. I have better things to do. Watch Fox news. Its happening. Sorry you could not understand as I guess I speed type and I just don't go back to check Keep at it. I am taking my own advise that I gave on the Bug a boos. :wave:
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Americans who voted for Obama has great expectations for the man.
1. They expect him to save the country from the economic troubles that beset all of us.
2. They expect him to get us out of Iraq. That is simple enough as the war is over and troops are scheduled to be out by 2011 but could be taken out sooner as many in Iraq want anyway.
3. Save social security.
4. Lower most of americans taxes.
5. Give all americans medical coverage without becoming a burden to the person.
6. Make america energy independent. Rumors have it that that Arnold the governor of California has been asked to be the energy Czar and that Arnold is considering it.
Can he do all this? If he cannot in four years many americans who voted for him will turn on him in 2012. We shall have to see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat or if he is all talk.
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During his campaign, President-elect Barack Obama made it crystal clear that change would take time. Only the most naive of voters can expect otherwise.
The change, though it will be a challenging and ongoing process, has already started in earnest with the unifying of a huge majority of the citizens of this country.
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Tinka,
You remind me of someone I used to know. Do you think we have met?
I think really Grat should send out her vile little link in mass e-mail that the posts jump out before you press the button for ole Whoope and get the feel from that. I have been able to discern several people on here that are coming from good Spirit.
If you will go back and look GRAT had nothing to do with posting that "vile little link" and the rest of that sentence makes absolutely NO sense. Maybe you should slow down and make your thoughts clearer. Is English your mother tongue?
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During his campaign, President-elect Barack Obama did NOT make it crystal clear that he wouldn't be able to get to some of his promises until his SECOND term as he is saying now.
During his campaign, President-elect Barack Obama made it crystal clear that change would take time. Only the most naive of voters can expect otherwise.
The change, though it will be a challenging and ongoing process, has already started in earnest with the unifying of a huge majority of the citizens of this country.
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I agree with Snoopy on this one. Obama DID NOT make it clear that he would not fulfill his promises in his first term. He promised change and the people gave him the white house and a super majority in the house and senate to fulfill his promises. Will he or can he fulfill his promises in a state where red ink is to tune of a half trillion dollars each year makes any more promises that will cost more and NOT raise taxes an impossibility. McCain tried to point that out but people were voting against Bush more than for or against policies. Obama promised tax cuts for everyone below $250,000 a year. Will they get it? Fact is he will let the Bush tax cuts expire which means the tax rates will go up to the Clinton years then he will give tax rebates back and call that a tax cuts. But Tax rebates can be given or not given each year. Soon they will not give then and then we are paying higher taxes as McCain said would happen.
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Perhaps you and Snoopy just missed the speeches where he spoke about change not happening quickly. I heard him speak of such in October...
Obama: 'Change won't come easy' (http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-10-22-0173.html)
Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 06:27 AM Updated: 12:47 AM
Obama also sought to temper expectations given the economic downturn.
"Richmond, make no mistake. The change we need won't come easy," he said. "Bush has dug a deep hole. It's going to take awhile to dig out."
Of course, he spoke of it at the end of his campaign on Tuesday night:
"The road ahead will be long. Our climb will be steep. We may not get there in one year or even one term, but America -- I have never been more hopeful than I am tonight that we will get there. I promise you -- we as a people will get there."
Could it be that it's time for something a little bit different...
This goofy video might be seen as offensive by some, therefore, I strongly advise tinka, and anyone else who might be offended by political humor, DO NOT click on this link: George W. Bush talks about his Second Term. (http://www.jibjab.com/originals/second_term)
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No, I don't think I missed that at all. It is quite obvious that it will take a good deal of time and effort to fix the mess we have now. What I don't like is a candidate making all kinds of promises to get elected, and then once elected, he says "oh, and by the way, I may not get to what I promised until my SECOND term!!" Not only is that misleading, it is very presumptuous.
Perhaps you and Snoopy just missed the speeches where he spoke about change not happening quickly. I heard him speak of such in October...
Obama: 'Change won't come easy' (http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-10-22-0173.html)
Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 06:27 AM Updated: 12:47 AM
Obama also sought to temper expectations given the economic downturn.
"Richmond, make no mistake. The change we need won't come easy," he said. "Bush has dug a deep hole. It's going to take awhile to dig out."
Of course, he spoke of it at the end of his campaign on Tuesday night:
"The road ahead will be long. Our climb will be steep. We may not get there in one year or even one term, but America -- I have never been more hopeful than I am tonight that we will get there. I promise you -- we as a people will get there."
Could it be that it's time for something a little bit different...
This goofy video might be seen as offensive by some, therefore, I strongly advise tinka, and anyone else who might be offended by political humor, DO NOT click on this link: George W. Bush talks about his Second Term. (http://www.jibjab.com/originals/second_term)
And GrandmaNettie, why even provide a link here that you have to qualify with "this...might be seen as offensive by some..."??
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This goofy video might be seen as offensive by some, therefore, I strongly advise tinka, and anyone else who might be offended by political humor, DO NOT click on this link: George W. Bush talks about his Second Term.
Lol! That was good. Loved the dances. I browsed a bit on there and came across some more hilarious videos. There is the Obamessiah series with Obama being Jesus, and then one that followed the story of the the Christ child only it was Obama being the saviour and it follows his saintly travels and divine miracles. Lol!!! The messiah of the world status given him by so many will make for some great videos. I'm guessing the next four years will provide youtube with an entirely new set of hilarity. W did his time as the joke that offended some, and now the O gets to take his turn as our new joke.
Btw, according the the Mayan calendar and the prophecies of Nostradamus, 2012 will be the end of the world. I expect to see some good stories about how the O will use his term in office to make that happen. Also, because the anti-christ is supposed to be a charismatic man who seeks the position of most powerful person on earth and who all the world wonders after as he is the one who will bring peace and unity, I will be highly disappointed if some good anti-christ stories don't build up around him, like the hilarious idiocy about 9/11, the Iraq war, blood for oil, war on Americans, and all the other lunatic conspiracy stories concocted and passed around by the same type of fringe weirdos regarding the W.
Can we laugh and make fun of our politicians? In the words that define a nation, yes we can. Can we make it through the next four years and come out with smiles on our faces and laughter on our lips? Yes we can. Can we learn valuable lessons in creation of political satire, conspiracy theories, and comedy from the people who spent the last eight years doing that to the W? Yes we can.
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This goofy video might be seen as offensive by some, therefore, I strongly advise tinka, and anyone else who might be offended by political humor, DO NOT click on this link: George W. Bush talks about his Second Term.
Lol! That was good. Loved the dances. I browsed a bit on there and came across some more hilarious videos. There is the Obamessiah series with Obama being Jesus, and then one that followed the story of the the Christ child only it was Obama being the saviour and it follows his saintly travels and divine miracles. Lol!!! The messiah of the world status given him by so many will make for some great videos. I'm guessing the next four years will provide youtube with an entirely new set of hilarity. W did his time as the joke that offended some, and now the O gets to take his turn as our new joke.
Btw, according the the Mayan calendar and the prophecies of Nostradamus, 2012 will be the end of the world. I expect to see some good stories about how the O will use his term in office to make that happen. Also, because the anti-christ is supposed to be a charismatic man who seeks the position of most powerful person on earth and who all the world wonders after as he is the one who will bring peace and unity, I will be highly disappointed if some good anti-christ stories don't build up around him, like the hilarious idiocy about 9/11, the Iraq war, blood for oil, war on Americans, and all the other lunatic conspiracy stories concocted and passed around by the same type of fringe weirdos regarding the W.
Can we laugh and make fun of our politicians? In the words that define a nation, yes we can. Can we make it through the next four years and come out with smiles on our faces and laughter on our lips? Yes we can. Can we learn valuable lessons in creation of political satire, conspiracy theories, and comedy from the people who spent the last eight years doing that to the W? Yes we can.
O, a.k.a. President-elect Barack Obama, has been "our new joke" for some time. Those who follow Fox News certainly caught Gerard Baker's clever video "He ventured forth to bring light to the world" or lovingly dubbed "The Obamessiah" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0drwfnGlF_E)... The text accompanying the 6:13 minute video featured on Fox News in July, 2008, that credits those responsible for this political satire, follows:
"He ventured forth to bring light to the world". This is something you won't see on CNN, or MSNBC. It kind of gets right to the heart of all the Obama worshiping going on. Good job Gerard Bakaker, Fox News, Hannity and Colmes, and their producers who are responsible for this video, in this case it had nothing to do with their News people, it was their opinion show people, and yes there is a difference.
Gerard Baker Zings Barack Obama
'He Ventured Forth to Bring Light to the World' a Satirical Classic
By Mark Whittington, published Jul 25, 2008
Gerard Baker, the American editor and the assistant editor of the Times of London, has answered the question: Can one laugh at Barack Obama? His piece, entitled "He ventured forth to bring light to the world," resoundingly says, "Yes we can!"
"And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness," Gerard Baker writers.
One might as well call the piece, "The Gospel of Barack the Messiah." Forget about depicting the Democratic Presidential candidate as a Muslim Imam or any of that rubbish. Gerard Baker's piece surpasses even the segment in the JibJab video that depicts Obama riding a unicorn down a rainbow in a Disney cartoon universe.
Gerard Baker's piece captures neatly the attitude toward Barack Obama of the mainstream media and Obama's teenaged followers, the ones who faint in the aisles upon Barack Obama's very word.
"From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered "Hosanna" and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet."
Barack Obama has been called "the Messiah" and "Obamessiah" by observers of the political scene who have looked upon Obama and his arrogant megalomania, his promises to lower the oceans and tear down every wall. Gerard Baker has finally put all that into words what a lot of people are thinking when they see Barack Obama make an inane speech and then see people, including the media, slobber over him like besotted teenage girls.
Here the Obama Child brings peace to the Middle East just by showing it the benificence of his countenance. There the Obama Child heals the sick at a distance (even the uninsured) and causes oil to gush forth from the ground without even having to drill. No one can stop him. Not the evil George Bush the Younger (the Ignorant), not "the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites", and not even "the imperial warrior Petraeus."
It is the lot of politicians to be laughed at, from time to time, some gently, some nastily, too many unhumorously. But it is a bad sign for any politician to be laughed at, as Obama is starting to be laughed at, with such zest and incisiveness. When one becomes a joke to too many people, one does not become President.
All that is left is for Obama's electoral defeat in November to be compared to the Crucifixion. A lot of overheated media types who feel tingling going up and down their legs are capable of doing it, of making the whole 2008 Election "The Passion of St. Barack." But by then the story will not be about the man who got beat, but the man who won. And it's looking more and more likely that man will be John McCain. John McCain is a fine man in many ways with fine qualities and, despite having suffered torments that Barack Obama and indeed most people can only imagine, is not a man who is ever compared to Our Lord.
Source: He ventured forth to bring light to the world, Gerard Baker, Times of London, July 25th, 2008
Obama Takes Stump to Europe
Democrat Greets
200,000 in Berlin,
Pledges Closer Ties
By JAY SOLOMON and MIKE ESTERL
July 25, 2008; Page A4
BERLIN -- Barack Obama, seeking to burnish his image as a global statesman ahead of U.S. presidential elections, told an estimated 200,000 Germans here that he will work for rejuvenated U.S.-European ties.
Sen. Obama drew on Washington's historic role in rebuilding post-World War II Berlin to call for an enhanced alliance that would work to combat the resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan and the spread of nuclear weapons. He sought to help heal the trans-Atlantic rift following President George W. Bush's 2003 invasion of Iraq by pledging a more humble and engaged U.S. administration should he be elected in November.
"I know my country has not perfected itself. At times, we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty and equality for all of our people," Sen. Obama said, generating perhaps the loudest applause during his 25-minute address at the historic downtown Tiergarten, Berlin's version of New York's Central Park.
A spokesman for Sen. McCain called the Berlin speech "a premature victory lap."
Category: News & Politics
So here you have been witness to the inspired writings, perspectives and even a bit of prophecy, about Barack Obama, according to Fox News "opinion show people"... While part of the prophecy (bolded within the text above) has proven to be more of a rather less-than-inspired Dixon-esque prediction, now we all have the unique opportunity to see how the next four years (or more) will play out in this grand country. Will the "new joke" be the source of well-deserved satirical derision or will our new President-elect gather the people of this nation together in a common cause to repair the broken things and strengthen us all? Time will tell.
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Yes, that one was great, and much better listened to than read, but there is also the series of Obamessiah videos edited from a movie about Jesus.
And btw, those who don't follow Fox News caught the one you mention on youtube.
So here you have been witness to the inspired writings, perspectives and even a bit of prophecy, about Barack Obama, according to Fox News "opinion show people"... While part of the prophecy (bolded within the text above) has proven to be more of a rather less-than-inspired Dixon-esque prediction, now we all have the unique opportunity to see how the next four years (or more) will play out in this grand country. Will the "new joke" be the source of well-deserved satirical derision or will our new President-elect gather the people of this nation together in a common cause to repair the broken things and strengthen us all? Time will tell.
As you have said, there are people who will be offended. It is interesting and quite funny to see people who watched the satire and comedy making fun of the W that many networks, not just one, spent years creating and broadcasting getting offended and upset when the same begins on a much smaller scale with the O. It has been almost as funny as the videos themselves to see so many of the people who helped spread the Bush jokes and made fun of people who didn't laugh at them, get serious, offended and upset when the same rolls around on Obama. LOL!!!! Some consider Bush as being well-deserving of the satirical derision that has followed him, and some now consider Obama as being well-deserving of the satirical dirision that is starting to follow him. I have laughed loudly at some of the Bush jokes (such as the one you posted), and now I am howling at the Obama ones.
As to reparing broken things, can he repair the broken bodies of the millions of kids that he has consistently voted the death penalty for? Will he stop the slaughter of those kids who he has sentenced to death? Interesting how a man can bring the country together in a love fest and great big hug that specifically excludes millions of little kids whose lives are the acceptable human sacrifice to be offered up on the alter of a new god, even by people who would have previously defended those little lives.
That aside, all the messianic rhetoric will be a continued source of well-deserved mirth and satirical derision. You know, that is something brought on Obama, more by the people who have fallen into a religious fervor and messianic view of him, than by anything he has done or said.
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As to reparing broken things, can he repair the broken bodies of the millions of kids that he has consistently voted the death penalty for? Will he stop the slaughter of those kids who he has sentenced to death? Interesting how a man can bring the country together in a love fest and great big hug that specifically excludes millions of little kids whose lives are the acceptable human sacrifice to be offered up on the alter of a new god, even by people who would have previously defended those little lives.
That aside, all the messianic rhetoric will be a continued source of well-deserved mirth and satirical derision. You know, that is something brought on Obama, more by the people who have fallen into a religious fervor and messianic view of him, than by anything he has done or said.
Habanero, while I believe there are instances when abortion is a medical necessity (the life of the mother is in physical peril) I stand firmly beside you in a desire to see a stop to babies being brutally ripped from the very wombs that should be nurturing them to birth. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with on both the state and Federal level. The onus cannot be put only on our incoming commander in chief, though. Every person and political party has allowed this to become the practice in this land and shares in the responsibility.
Let's do all in our power to get this message to the ears of the new leader of this nation and call for solutions that don't involve the sacrifice of the unborn. We are all measured by how we treat the most vulnerable among us.
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As to reparing broken things, can he repair the broken bodies of the millions of kids that he has consistently voted the death penalty for? Will he stop the slaughter of those kids who he has sentenced to death? Interesting how a man can bring the country together in a love fest and great big hug that specifically excludes millions of little kids whose lives are the acceptable human sacrifice to be offered up on the alter of a new god, even by people who would have previously defended those little lives.
That aside, all the messianic rhetoric will be a continued source of well-deserved mirth and satirical derision. You know, that is something brought on Obama, more by the people who have fallen into a religious fervor and messianic view of him, than by anything he has done or said.
Habanero, while I believe there are instances when abortion is a medical necessity (the life of the mother is in physical peril) I stand firmly beside you in a desire to see a stop to babies being brutally ripped from the very wombs that should be nurturing them to birth. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with on both the state and Federal level. The onus cannot be put only on our incoming commander in chief, though. Every person and political party has allowed this to become the practice in this land and shares in the responsibility.
Let's do all in our power to get this message to the ears of the new leader of this nation and call for solutions that don't involve the sacrifice of the unborn. We are all measured by how we treat the most vulnerable among us.
No, that would not be at all accurate. Not every person and political party is equally responsible for this practice, and I guarantee that those who put people in power who want to see the deaths of babies, as Obama does, will not be allowed to place even a fraction of the onus for that on all of us. I have consistently voted for people who make the saving of babies a part of their platform, and have supported only those who try to stop it. Unfortunately, lots of people who have shown the measure of their characters according to what you wrote above, seem to feel that kids lives are less important than economic issues or whatever it is that they are willing to sacrifice babies in favor of Obama andhis party for. You know very well that the Democrat party has for decades had a majority who will fight for abortion and that when you vote to create a situation where both houses and the executive branch are Democrat you ARE voting in favor of abortion. You also know very well that a majority of Republicans value the lives of kids. It makes no sense to put one of the most radical abortion proponents into the highest position of power in the country with no party-line checks on him and then say that we should get the message to him that we want him to find other solutions. Yes, we are measured on how we treat the most vulnerable, and in my opinion a majority of Americans showed their measure a few days ago.
In all fairness, I strongly disagree with much that Republicans in general stand for, and agree with some. I also disagree with much that the Democrats generally stand for, and agree with some, but more important than the other points is the matter of kids, and saving them from the politicians who have made it their record to ensure, as long as they are supported by voters, that millions of kids will be killed as per their desire, and that stronger measures are put in place to keep anyone from saving those kids.
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As to reparing broken things, can he repair the broken bodies of the millions of kids that he has consistently voted the death penalty for? Will he stop the slaughter of those kids who he has sentenced to death? Interesting how a man can bring the country together in a love fest and great big hug that specifically excludes millions of little kids whose lives are the acceptable human sacrifice to be offered up on the alter of a new god, even by people who would have previously defended those little lives.
That aside, all the messianic rhetoric will be a continued source of well-deserved mirth and satirical derision. You know, that is something brought on Obama, more by the people who have fallen into a religious fervor and messianic view of him, than by anything he has done or said.
Habanero, while I believe there are instances when abortion is a medical necessity (the life of the mother is in physical peril) I stand firmly beside you in a desire to see a stop to babies being brutally ripped from the very wombs that should be nurturing them to birth. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with on both the state and Federal level. The onus cannot be put only on our incoming commander in chief, though. Every person and political party has allowed this to become the practice in this land and shares in the responsibility.
Let's do all in our power to get this message to the ears of the new leader of this nation and call for solutions that don't involve the sacrifice of the unborn. We are all measured by how we treat the most vulnerable among us.
No, that would not be at all accurate. Not every person and political party is equally responsible for this practice, and I guarantee that those who put people in power who want to see the deaths of babies, as Obama does, will not be allowed to place even a fraction of the onus for that on all of us. I have consistently voted for people who make the saving of babies a part of their platform, and have supported only those who try to stop it. Unfortunately, lots of people who have shown the measure of their characters according to what you wrote above, seem to feel that kids lives are less important than economic issues or whatever it is that they are willing to sacrifice babies in favor of Obama andhis party for. You know very well that the Democrat party has for decades had a majority who will fight for abortion and that when you vote to create a situation where both houses and the executive branch are Democrat you ARE voting in favor of abortion. You also know very well that a majority of Republicans value the lives of kids. It makes no sense to put one of the most radical abortion proponents into the highest position of power in the country with no party-line checks on him and then say that we should get the message to him that we want him to find other solutions. Yes, we are measured on how we treat the most vulnerable, and in my opinion a majority of Americans showed their measure a few days ago.
In all fairness, I strongly disagree with much that Republicans in general stand for, and agree with some. I also disagree with much that the Democrats generally stand for, and agree with some, but more important than the other points is the matter of kids, and saving them from the politicians who have made it their record to ensure, as long as they are supported by voters, that millions of kids will be killed as per their desire, and that stronger measures are put in place to keep anyone from saving those kids.
We are just ending 8 years of an Administration that did not strongly address the issue that should have been forefront to the party of "Family Values". Why was it not? Because, as you pointed out, other things were focused on instead. What was deemed more important? And, did those who put them into office insist they address it? How did Obama manage to get the State of Illinois to accept what you say he pushed regarding the late term abortion restrictions that would make it a crime for a doctor to give lifesaving care to a viable human life? Did the majority of IL voters support it? Were there any voices staunchly protesting it?
Ultimately, the dysfunctional families who are raising children without strong characters or intelligent problem-solving skills are the true source of this massacre. Yes, Roe v. Wade gave initial legal approval, but abortion was happening without it. Building a country where integrity is prized, where every individual is considered of value and asked to actively participate in community, where people can overcome the feeling of disconnect. where the government is really for THE PEOPLE instead of for the few and the favored corporations will go a long way towards bringing a our nation back into civilized balance. Breaking the cycle of dysfunction in generationally damaged families will improve our citizenry. No one person or party is responsible. We all are a part of the problem and must all be a part of the solution.
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Granted on election night AFTER Obama was elected he did say that it may take more than one term to keep all his promised changes. Yeah NOW HE tells us that.
The charge Obama made that the economic mess is all Bush's fault is utter nonsense. Bush cannot make one step unless he has congressional approval which is controlled by the democrats. All that deficit spending was done by the democratic congress. It was the democrats who went to court to take away the republican line item veto several years ago. So the president cannot line item veto deficit spending. He has a take it or leave it bill with all the pork spending in it. So he signs it. Obama will have a similar problem.
Also this housing problem started with a plan by the Clinton administration to allow those with lower incomes buy houses. All fine and well if the interest rates stay low. As soon as the Prime rate goes up there is a problem.
Hard to change that law with the democrats in control of the house and senate.
So the bottom line is that BOTH the democrats and republicans are responsible for the mess we are in now. Do not put this all on Bush's doorstep. The democratic congress had as much a hand in this mess we are in now as Bush did.
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Wait till the interest goes up to 18% - which it is where I live now. It is ruining one family after another who have to make payments on their homes.
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We are just ending 8 years of an Administration that did not strongly address the issue that should have been forefront to the party of "Family Values". Why was it not? Because, as you pointed out, other things were focused on instead. What was deemed more important? And, did those who put them into office insist they address it? How did Obama manage to get the State of Illinois to accept what you say he pushed regarding the late term abortion restrictions that would make it a crime for a doctor to give lifesaving care to a viable human life? Did the majority of IL voters support it? Were there any voices staunchly protesting it?
Ultimately, the dysfunctional families who are raising children without strong characters or intelligent problem-solving skills are the true source of this massacre. Yes, Roe v. Wade gave initial legal approval, but abortion was happening without it. Building a country where integrity is prized, where every individual is considered of value and asked to actively participate in community, where people can overcome the feeling of disconnect. where the government is really for THE PEOPLE instead of for the few and the favored corporations will go a long way towards bringing a our nation back into civilized balance. Breaking the cycle of dysfunction in generationally damaged families will improve our citizenry. No one person or party is responsible. We all are a part of the problem and must all be a part of the solution.
Obama's wishes were overriden in the state of IL. True, Bush did not spend his presidential career in dealing with stopping abortion, neither did he promote it, like Obama does. He did deal with the stem cell research issue, and there were various other family values matters that were on his platter, but he was in the hot seat when America was attacked and his roll as Commander in Chief had to take precedence. He kept us safe and kept the enemies of our country out for the rest of his presidency. What he accomplished in his eight years was enormous.
Yes, the matter of dysfunctional families is a big problem that is now going to have the added complication of a party that supports gay marriage and other anti-family and pro-dysfunction policies in the White House and holding the majority in both houses. I will be working hard over the next two years to help in any way I can to change the congressional situation during the mid-term elections, and will certainly do my best to see to it that in 2012 the party and president who support the death of kids and the disfunction of families is removed from a position where they can continue the slaughter. Again, I am very disappointed in so many Americans who claim to support family values and the lives of kids, who have decided to sacrifice their integrity and the lives of kids in order to get the situation that they now have. It brings to mind the alters of Moloch where the ancients sacrificed their babies in order to achieve the favour of the god and thereby achieve financial and social stability for the nation. In our words we abhore those actions and preach against them online, in print, and from the pulpit. In action we do the same as they did and in order to get the things we are promised by a politician and his party, or to achieve some other ideal we put them in place and then try to justify the human sacrifice we have agreed to with by all manner of weak verbiage.
Obama will be your president, and he will be mine. I wish him well and will make sure that he is aware of my views, but I will also do my best to make sure that he does not have a second term in office and that his party is removed from their position of majority as long as they continue to support the killing of babies. I will not support something noble in words and then promote something evil in deeds. When I say that I support the right of kids to live, I actually mean it, it is not just circular words, and I will reflect that by only supporting candidates and parties who do not have a history of voting death for them, even if the others have made history in one positive way, and regardless of how popular they are in the press and in the embarassing morass of political correctness.
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Granted on election night AFTER Obama was elected he did say that it may take more than one term to keep all his promised changes. Yeah NOW HE tells us that.
The charge Obama made that the economic mess is all Bush's fault is utter nonsense. Bush cannot make one step unless he has congressional approval which is controlled by the democrats. All that deficit spending was done by the democratic congress. It was the democrats who went to court to take away the republican line item veto several years ago. So the president cannot line item veto deficit spending. He has a take it or leave it bill with all the pork spending in it. So he signs it. Obama will have a similar problem.
Also this housing problem started with a plan by the Clinton administration to allow those with lower incomes buy houses. All fine and well if the interest rates stay low. As soon as the Prime rate goes up there is a problem.
Hard to change that law with the democrats in control of the house and senate.
So the bottom line is that BOTH the democrats and republicans are responsible for the mess we are in now. Do not put this all on Bush's doorstep. The democratic congress had as much a hand in this mess we are in now as Bush did.
Yes, Bush shares a ceartain amount of guilt in the financial mess. He is guilty inaction in overturning or stopping the actions of the Democrats in their fervor to FORCE Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on an enormous number of unsustainable loans from unqualified clients. I am able to read and follow patterns and neither the perpetrators or their adherents will be allowed to lie to me on open matters of record like that.
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Habenaro,
How refreshing to read that someone knows what happening. Our daughter works in administrative at state university hospital. She just called me to express the new "slogan" Were in that White House now !!!! She said you know mom, most voted for race and don't even know what they voted for didn't they..
Heard c-span this morning with Black call ins. "Welllll, I thought they were supposed to do this.... What happened when they said... How come this ain't happening.?? Sorry Charlie, it was your responsibility to know what you voted for.....
Habenaro, you are so right expecially about the responsibility being the voter that put the baby killer into leading. I wonder just how long before the people start to uprise. They claim all the gun sales are going up because of O's stand on gun control. I believe the people fear and woke up wondering how all this happened and expect worst economic conditions. You do not see BO taking into view the problem that should be fixed first. It is the housing. You think the people will not uprise soon over this when they see his agenda is different then what they expect. He is already in too deep. HE did not get there on his own. He owes!!!! It was the premeditated Acorn and the liberal professors in the liberal colleges where all the lunitics are that the corruptions flowed for many years to get this accomplished. A christian, true blue ,African American would not have voted for this. I was not going to respond to any more of this jibe until I realized someone on here is educated to facts politically but above all I do hope you have some influence somewhere even before the 20th. I cannot believe something like this was put into the White House with these horrible policies. Change huh....trying to put all Clinton people back in.... What next?? Where is his people for the big change?? I read all the documents in the courts in Pa. Are those documents for real? I e-mailed Fox but no answer. In fact I e-mailed Gingrich and some others. They do not respond on this.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
:
PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE, :
Plaintiff :
vs. : CIVIL ACTION NO: 08-cv- 04083 :
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, ET AL, :
:
Defendants :
ORDER ON PLAINTIFF’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
THIS CAUSE came before the United States District Court Judge, Honorable R. Barclay Surrick on Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment. Having reviewed the:
Motion and any response thereto and for good cause shown, it is hereby ORDERED that Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment pursuant to F.R.C.P. 56(c) is GRANTED. This Court Declares Barack Hussein Obama a/k/a Barry Hussein Obama a/k/a Barack Dunham a/k/a Barry Dunham a/k/a Barack Soetoro a/k/a Barry Soetoro is not a “natural born” or “naturalized” United States citizen and is ineligible to run for and/or serve as President of the United States. The Democratic National Committee is hereby enjoined from naming Barack Hussein Obama, et al as the Democratic Presidential Candidate on the ballot and both the Democratic National Committee and Barack Hussein Obama, et al are enjoined from any further campaigning
on behalf of Barack Hussein Obama, et al for Office of the Presidency.
It is an ORDER of this Court that Barack Hussein Obama’s, et al name be removed from any and all ballots for the Office of the President of the United States.
BERG v. OBAMA et al Doc. 27
Dockets.Justia.com
It is further ORDER of this Court; Defendants are to pay Plaintiff $48,300.00,
representing all fees and costs associated with this suit to date.
IT IS SO ORDERED
Dated: October ______, 2008 ______________________________
Hon. R. Barclay Surrick
United States District Court Judge
For the Eastern District of PA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
:
PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE, :
Plaintiff :
vs.
CIVIL ACTION NO: 08-cv- 04083
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, ET AL,:
Defendants :
PLAINTIFF’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
AGAINST DEFENDANTS, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA and
THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE
Plaintiff Philip J. Berg, Esquire [hereinafter “Plaintiff”] files the within Motion for Summary Judgment and Brief in support thereof and moves this Court for an Order granting Summary Judgment to Plaintiff and against Defendant’s, Barack Hussein Obama [hereinafter “Obama”] and The Democratic National Committee’s [hereinafter “DNC”] on all Plaintiff’s claims pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 56(c) on the following grounds:
1. Plaintiff served Discovery by way of Requests for Admissions and Request for Production of Documents upon Defendants, Obama and DNC, on September 15, 2008.
2. Although Defendants, Obama and DNC, filed a Motion for a Protective Order staying all discovery pending the Court’s decision on a Motion to Dismiss, Defendants failed to serve Plaintiff with any Answers and/or Objections to the Requests for Admissions Served upon each Defendant, Obama and DNC. To date, the Court has never issued any Protective Orders.
3. Failure to Answer or Object to Requests for Admissions within thirty [30] days deems the Request for Admissions “Admitted,” Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 56(c).
4. Since the Requests for Admissions are now deemed Admitted, there are not any genuine issues of material facts remaining and Plaintiff is entitled to Judgment against Defendants, Obama and the DNC, as a matter of law.
5. To date, Plaintiff, Philip J. Berg, Esquire, has expended considerable time in pursuing this case. Accordingly, Plaintiff requests counsel fees and costs. In the amount of $48,300.00.
WHEREFORE, for the above aforementioned reasons, Plaintiff, Philip J. Berg, Esquire, respectfully requests this Honorable Court to grant Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment against Defendants, Obama and the DNC as to all his claims and award counsel fees and costs to Plaintiff, Philip J. Berg, Esquire in the amount of $48,300.00.
Respectfully submitted,
s/ Philip J. Berg
Dated: October 22, 2008 ___________________________
Philip J. Berg, Esquire
Attorney in pro se
555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12
Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531
(610) 825-3134
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
:
PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE :
Plaintiff :
vs. : CIVIL ACTION NO: 08-cv- 04083 :
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, ET AL :
Defendants :
PLAINTIFF’S BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION FOR SUMMARY
JUDGMENT AGAINST DEFENDANTS, THE DNC AND OBAMA
A. OVERVIEW OF PLAINTIFF’S COMPLAINT
Plaintiff is a life long Democrat who had always been proud of his Party. Plaintiff is a licensed attorney in good standing and has taken an oath to uphold the United States Constitution. Plaintiff and many other citizens of the United States have donated money and time to Democratic Presidential candidates as well as to the Democratic National Committee, in reliance on promises and assurances made by the DNC in the Democratic Party Agenda. It provides that the Democrat Party’s goals, among others, are to “restore accountability, honesty and openness at all levels of government”, to “restore the Constitution and protect the civil rights and liberties of all Americans” and to “uphold the Constitution.”
To uphold the Constitution includes making sure that the Presidential candidate is eligible to serve as President pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of our United States Constitution and that such candidate runs a fair
and legitimate campaign.
In vetting the Presidential candidate the DNC and FEC are required to ensure the eligibility requirements pursuant to our Constitution are met and the Presidential candidate, if elected, would be eligible to serve as President. To be eligible and qualified to run for and/or serve for Office of the President of the United States a person must be a
“natural born” citizen. United States Constitution, Article II, Section I. The natural born citizen clause has prohibited many prominent Americans from becoming President, including Governor Schwarzenegger and former Secretaries of State Madeleine Albright and Henry Kissinger.
The DNC has nominated Obama as the Democratic candidate for President of the United States. There are many unanswered questions regarding Obama’s citizenship status:
1. Is Obama a “natural born” United States citizen?
2. Is Obama a “naturalized” United States citizen?
3. Is Obama a citizen of Indonesia?
If the answer to the first question is “yes” then Obama meets the citizenship requirements to be President. On the other hand, if the answer to the first question is “no” and the answer to the second or third question is “yes”, Obama is not eligible to be President.
Plaintiff has learned through extensive investigation that Obama is not a “natural born” citizen. Plaintiff learned that Obama was born at Coast Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya located in Coast Province. Obama’s father was a Kenyan citizen and Obama’s mother a United States citizen who was not old enough and did not reside in the United States long enough to register Obama’s birth in Hawaii as a “natural born” United States citizen. Under the laws in effect between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986 (Obama was born in 1961), a child born outside of the United States to one citizen parent could acquire “natural born” United States citizenship if the United States citizen parent had been physically present in the United States for ten (10) years prior to the child’s birth, five (5) of those years being after age fourteen (14). Nationality Act of 1940, revised June 1952; United States of America v. Cervantes-Nava,
281 F.3d 501 (2002), Drozd v. I.N.S., 155 F.3d 81, 85-88 (2d Cir.1998). Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born in Kenya and therefore, did not meet the age and residency requirements for her child to have acquired “natural born” United
States citizenship. Therefore, Obama may not be considered a “natural born” United States citizen. There is no indication that Obama is a naturalized citizen either.
In response to requests from Plaintiff and the general public for Obama to produce proof of his citizenship, Obama allowed the Daily Kos to post on their website an image of a Certification of Live Birth with Obama’s name on it purporting to be Obama’s birth certificate at www.dailykos.com. This same image was also placed on Obama’s website, http://fightthesmears.com and on another website located at http://factcheck.org . The image placed on these websites is of a Hawaiian document which is provided for children’s births in Hawaii as “natural born”, as well as births abroad, which have been registered in Hawaii, whether the citizenship status was “natural born” or “naturalized”. Thus, the posting of Obama’s purported birth certificate did not prove Obama was a “natural born” citizen. Further, the images placed on these three (3) websites were later discovered by Document Image Specialists to be altered
and forged images.
It appears that Obama became an Indonesian citizen. Plaintiff discovered through investigation that Obama’s mother married an Indonesian citizen, Lolo Soetoro who either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Obama as his son or “adopted” Obama, either of which changed any citizenship status Obama had to a “natural” citizen of Indonesia. Obama was registered in a Jakarta public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was no other way for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State. Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools and any time a child was registered for a public school, their name and citizenship status was verified through the Indonesian Government. These facts indicate that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, and therefore, he is not
eligible to be President of the U.S.
Plaintiff filed suit on August 21, 2008 seeking proof of Obama’s citizenship status. Defendants, Obama and the DNC’s Answers were due on or before September 24, 2008.
Plaintiff filed a Motion on September 09, 2008 for Expedited Discovery, Extensive Discovery, Deposition of Obama and Howard Dean, the DNC Chairman and a request for the appointment of a Special Master to be present during the depositions. Defendants failed to respond or oppose Plaintiff’s Discovery Motion, which is still pending before this Court.
On September 15, 2008, Plaintiff served discovery by way of Request for Admissions and Request for Production of Documents on Defendants Obama and the DNC.
Instead of filing an Answer, Defendants, Obama and the DNC filed a Motion to Dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6), claiming Plaintiff did not have standing and failure to state a claim which relief can be granted. Plaintiff Opposed the Defendants Motion to Dismiss and requested to file an Amended Complaint. Plaintiff filed a Motion for Leave to file an Amended Complaint and attached his First Amended Complaint as Exhibit “A” on the early morning of October 6, 2008, document number fourteen (14) on the docket.
On the afternoon of October 6, 2008, Plaintiff received a call from John P. Lavelle, Jr., counsel for the DNC and Obama in order to meet and confer regarding discovery pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 26(f). Mr. Lavelle requested a stay of discovery pending this Honorable Court’s decision on Defendants Motion to Dismiss currently pending. Plaintiff declined this request as Obama’s citizenship status is of National security as he is running for President of the United States. Mr. Lavelle stated he was filing a Motion for a Protective Order staying discovery pending a decision on the Defendants Motion to Dismiss. Shortly thereafter, Defendants’ Motion for a Protective Order was filed with this Court as document number fifteen (15). This Court has not ruled on Defendants’ motion.
The Presidential election is only two (2) weeks away. Obama is not a “natural born” citizen and is therefore ineligible to serve as President of the United States. As a result, Plaintiff as well as many other United States citizens have been harmed and will continue to be harmed until Obama proves his citizenship status or withdraws as the Democratic Presidential candidate. Plaintiff as well as many United States citizens will have been deprived of their constitutional right to vote for an eligible candidate and will lose the money they have invested in Obama in the elusive hope of “change”.
The citizenship status of Defendant Obama is a critical issue and of concern to Plaintiff as well as the general public, which needs to be addressed prior to the Presidential election on November 4, 2008.
Instead of satisfying Plaintiff and the general public’s concerns regarding Obama’s citizenship status, or lack thereof, Obama and the DNC have chosen to litigate the matters in lieu of providing what should be simple proof. Defendants have filed two [2] Motions to Dismiss and a Motion for a Protective Order instead of simply solving the matters and providing the proof verifying Obama’s citizenship status. The fact Obama is a U.S. Senator for Illinois and a Presidential candidate, he is open for public scrutiny and Plaintiff as well as all American Citizens have a right to question and receive proof of Obama’s citizenship status.
Moreover, Defendants have failed to answer Plaintiff’s requests for Admissions in a timely manner, and those matters are automatically deemed admitted in accordance with Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 36(a); McNeil v. AT&T Universal Card, 192 F.R.D. 492, 494 (E.D. Pa. 2000). Therefore, no genuine issue of material fact exists regarding Plaintiff's complaint against Defendants. Plaintiff is entitled to summary
judgment as a matter of law.
B. REQUEST FOR ADMISSIONS SERVED UPON DEFENDANTS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED, THEREFORE, THERE ARE NO UNDISPUTED FACTS, SUMMARY JUDGMENT SHOULD BE GRANTED IN FAVOR OF PLAINTIFF:
Request for Admissions were served upon Defendants, Obama and the DNC on September 15, 2008. Answers and/or Objections were due within thirty [30] days.. Although Defendants filed a Motion for Protective Order on October 9, 2008, the Court has never ruled upon their Motion and therefore, a Protective Order was not granted and discovery has never been stayed.
Failure to Answer or Oppose Requests for Admissions deems them Admitted. Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 36, McNeil v. AT&T Universal Card, 192 F.R.D. 492, 494 (E.D. Pa. 2000), Goodman v. Mead Johnson & Co., 534 F.2d 566, 573 (3d Cir. 1976), cert. denied, 429 U.S. 1038, 97 S. Ct. 732 (1977); Siss v. County of Passaic, 75 F. Supp. 2d 325, 331 (D.N.J. 1999).
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 36 states in pertinent part:
“(3) Time to Respond; Effect of Not Responding.
A matter is admitted unless, within 30 days after being served, the party to whom the request is directed serves on the requesting party a written
answer or objection addressed to the matter and signed by the party or its attorney“
Plaintiff’s Request for Admissions served upon Defendants were simple and straightforward recitations of fact which could be admitted or denied and to which Defendants should have personal knowledge and familiarity. Despite the simplicity, Defendants failed to Answer and/or Object to Plaintiff’s Request for Admissions. Since Plaintiff’s Requests for Admissions are based solely on Plaintiff’s Complaint which addresses Obama’s non-natural born United States citizen status (Plaintiff’s Request for Admissions served upon Obama are attached hereto as Exhibit “1” and Plaintiff’s Requests for Admissions served upon the DNC are attached hereto as Exhibit “2”), the fact that Obama is not a natural born citizen was automatically deemed admitted upon Defendants’ failure to answer Plaintiff’s Requests for Admission in a timely manner. The admitted matter is conclusively established for purposes of the pending action.
See American Auto Ass'n v.AAA Legal Clinic, 930 F.2d 1117, 1120 (5th Cir. 1991)
(conclusive effect of admission applies equally to matters affirmatively admitted and those established by default). Therefore, there are no issues of material fact that remain and Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment against Defendants, the DNC and Obama should be granted to all of Plaintiff’s claims.
Admissions of fact made under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure, Rule 36 are “unassailable statement of facts that narrows the triable issues in the case.” Airco Industrial Gases, Inc. v. Teamsters Health & Welfare Pension Fund, 850 F.29 1028, 1037 (3 Cir. 1988). rd
For the above aforementioned reasons, Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment against Defendants, Obama and DNC, should be immediately granted to all of Plaintiff’s claims.
C. SUMMARY JUDGMENT IS APPROPRIATE IN THIS CASE and
MUST BE GRANTED IN FAVOR OF PLAINTIFF:
Under Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 56(c), Summary Judgment should be granted to Plaintiff because there are no genuine issues of material fact and Plaintiff is entitled to judgment as a matter of law. Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc. 477 U.S. 242, 247 (1986), Arnold Pontiac-GMC, Inc. v. General Motors Corp., 786 F.2d 564, 568 (3rd Cir. 1986). The Third Circuit Courts have considered the question of the proper interplay between the granting of a Summary Judgment and requests for admissions and have held that failure to respond to properly served admissions permits the entry of summary judgment when the facts deemed admitted are dispositive. See Anchorage Assocs. v. Virgin Islands Bd. of Tax Review, 922 F.2d 168, 176 (3d Cir. 1990) (deemed admissions sufficient to support summary judgment); Freed v. Plastic Packaging Materials, Inc., 66 F.R.D. 550, 552 (E.D. Pa. 1975). In this case, Defendants’ deemed admissions warrant the entry of a Summary
Judgment in favor of Plaintiff because the deemed admissions address every element of Plaintiff’s claim and no genuine issues of material fact remain. For the above aforementioned reason’s Plaintiff’s Motion for Summary Judgment against Defendants, the DNC and Obama should be immediately granted to all of Plaintiff’s claims.
D. CONCLUSION:
For the above aforementioned reasons, Plaintiff, Philip J. Berg, Esquire, respectfully requests this Honorable Court to Grant his Motion for Summary Judgment against Defendants, Barack Hussein Obama and The Democratic National Committee, as to all of Plaintiff’s Claims.
Additionally, Plaintiff requests this Honorable Court to declare Barack Hussein Obama a/k/a Barry Hussein Obama a/k/a Barack Dunham a/k/a Barry Dunham a/k/a Barack Soetoro a/k/a Barry Soetoro is not a “natural born” United States citizen and is ineligible to run for and/or serve as President of the United States.
Plaintiff further requests this Honorable Court to Order The Democratic National Committee to remove the name of Barack Hussein Obama a/k/a Barry Hussein Obama a/k/a Barack Dunham a/k/a Barry Dunham a/k/a Barack Soetoro a/k/a Barry Soetoro from the Presidential ballot and to enjoin Defendants from any further Presidential campaigning on behalf of Barack Hussein Obama, et al.
In addition, Plaintiff requests this Honorable Court to Order the Democratic National Committee and Barack Hussein Obama, et al to pay all fees and costs associated with this suit in the amount of $48,300.00. Plaintiff respectfully requests the Court to Grant Plaintiff such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.
Respectfully submitted,
/s Philip J. Berg
Dated: October 22, 2008 ___________________________
Philip J. Berg,
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Well, here goes. You been watching the news? It looks like one of the first things Obama will do as a priority item after taking the oath of office is to overturn the George Bush ban on using American tax dollars to fund widespread abortion overseas. Now, because a bunch of Christians who don't support abortion wanted Obama as president, I have to know that a portion of the money that I work hard for will be used to kill millions of children, as will your money. These WILL be the human sacrifices that WILL now be made as the price of whatever change it is that all the Obama supporters are so excited about. So for Christians the altars of Moloch are back and the fires are being stoked. We ALL KNEW that this is one of the foremost portions of the Democrat platform, and did it anyway.
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Well Grandma Nettie, here goes. You been watching the news? It looks like one of the first things Obama will do after taking the oath of office is to overturn the George Bush ban on using American tax dollars to fund abortion overseas.
It's just the start of those who "thought" finding out that it ain't what they thought...most don't even know what they voted for. They made a so-called educated leap based on all the wrong things.... Time after time I stressed to people just look at records. People were more willing to be mezmorized by words then issues and facts. They were influenced by media hype, manipulation and fear, not to mention lies. This majority that voted for the most part voted for someone they do NOT know. So, surprises will be at every turn. What do you say later, I told you so?
:help: Brace yourselves.
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Well Grandma Nettie, here goes. You been watching the news? It looks like one of the first things Obama will do after taking the oath of office is to overturn the George Bush ban on using American tax dollars to fund abortion overseas.
It's just the start of those who "thought" finding out that it ain't what they thought...most don't even know what they voted for. They made a so-called educated leap based on all the wrong things.... Time after time I stressed to people just look at records. People were more willing to be mezmorized by words then issues and facts. They were influenced by media hype, manipulation and fear, not to mention lies. This majority that voted for the most part voted for someone they do NOT know. So, surprises will be at every turn. What do you say later, I told you so?
:help: Brace yourselves.
There is no need to say "I told you so." The people who voted for him KNEW that they were voting for everything that he and his party stand for and they KNEW that this is one of those things. Their actions spoke louder than any of their words supporting the life of children. These Christians have demonstrated that they ARE willing to engage in human sacrifice.
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I LOVE the History Channel!!! I'll watch the history of anything! LOL!!!
Here's the kicker, I am in favor of the death penalty. Sure it has not been administered equally, but in the Bible there was a death penalty. We know by the number of people upon whom it was served out in a variety of ways. it's broke, just fix it. In some cases "eye for an eye" needs to be administered for sure.
Lol! If you wanted to drive me insane or torture me for information you could tie me down and make me watch The View. Oy! Can't stand that show, but hey, I like shows that you wouldn't like. My favourite channel on the tube is History International. I know that lots of people are bored to tears by that kind of TV.
As to the Kennedys, the orginal statement regarding JFK was that people thought he was going to bring on the end of time. Lol! I was not around back in those days, but I bet the same SDAs who have prdicted each president since then would be "the one" really went nuts over him.
That brings me back to the topic of apocalyptic fears about each president. I am somewhat alarmed by some of the tactics I see that fit with other patterns, but I will not discuss that now. But, I do take issue with the use of every new thing as another means of trying to terrify people into submission to whatever apocalyptic direction a person or group wants them to take.
We live in a time of unprecedented peace on this earth. There are fewer and smaller wars, we haven't had a major natural disaster in over a century, economies go up and down but globally they are holding well above lines that would be disastrous. I don't buy into the idea that we are in a time of terrible turmoil. Being an avid student of world history, that doesn't wash with me.
Since WW2 there have been a few minor wars and that is all. Up through WW2 wars were conducted with the policy of targeting the civilians and killing as many of them as possible, and through most of history, the victors walked away with all of the conquered nation's valuables, including the young people as slaves. Now civilian casualties are largely avoided, we rebuild the conquered country, take nothing from them, tax our own people to provide for the people we conquered and the issue of slavery is moot. Also, with U.S. military bases and carrier fleets completely surrounding the globe, other super-powers present and keeping control of their allies, and the ever present threat of nuclear anihilation, war and unrest is kept to a minimum. All of us super powers have allies with assets and business that we have to protect and that keeps most of the world in a forced state of peace.
The last major natural disaster occured in 1883. The island of Krakatau blew in a volcanic eruption that was heard over 3,000 miles away. It spread ash and sulfur around the entire world within days and caused a global drop in temperature that resulted in famines and a huge death toll globally. The earth's temperature did not normalize for five years. This came on the heels of a mini ice age that had taken the lives of millions, but actually resulted in the emergence of the potato as an accepted food because it was an underground crop that could grow in the very short summers they had and survive the cold. Prior to that, there was the black plague that decimated many of the earth's populations and is actually considered one of the factors in bringing about the ice age as millions of acres of farmland returned to forest as the populations died off. Going back further we see where terrible super volcanoes like Yellowstone would have eliminated most living things on entire continents, there were asteroid strikes like the one in the Gulf of Mexico that would have created a wall of water over 5,000 feet high that washed across the North American continent and was only stopped by the Rocky mountain range. We could go on and on.
Then there is the matter of religious persecution. We are in a period of the least violence in religious persecution in millenia. Although there are pockets of violent religious persecution in in several Muslim countries, even where repression exists in countries like China, it is moderate.
The point of all this being that we do not live in a time when all heck is breaking loose on the earth and when there are wars and rumours of wars, and pestilence, and natural disasters like never before.
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I LOVE the History Channel!!! I'll watch the history of anything! LOL!!!
Here's the kicker, I am in favor of the death penalty. Sure it has not been administered equally, but in the Bible there was a death penalty. We know by the number of people upon whom it was served out in a variety of ways. it's broke, just fix it. In some cases "eye for an eye" needs to be administered for sure.
Cool! A fellow History watcher! They have alot of reruns, but I end up watching many of the shows over and over and learning more each time. Between History and History International I have enough TV.
I am also in favour of the death penalty, but I am concerned that it NOT be applied to innocent people. That is a horrifying thing. There are many cases where there is absolutely no question at all and in those cases I am all for it. Especially in those cases where children are murdered, where it was planned out, where there were multiple murders, gang type murders, etc. In those cases where mothers or fathers murdered their kids I would call for the death penalty regardless of depression or any of the other emotional conditions pleaded. Can you think of any murder worse than that of your own child?
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We watch the history channel very frequently. LOVE IT!!
As for the death penalty, it is a more then just punishment in particular situations. I decided that God was the one in charge of that persons heart beating day after day, no matter where they were - inmates sit on death row for YEARS. What can happen to a person while they sit there, in isolation for the most part, for a matter of years, yes at tax payers expense, is still an opportunity for that person.
If it were an eye for an eye, do we realize how much less crime we actually would have? People would know the clear consequences and there wouldn't be wiggle room for loop holes. Too much time is spent finding loop holes in cases usually on the defense side (as I have seen it in my research) to get someone off. But, that's another story.
I LOVE the History Channel!!! I'll watch the history of anything! LOL!!!
Here's the kicker, I am in favor of the death penalty. Sure it has not been administered equally, but in the Bible there was a death penalty. We know by the number of people upon whom it was served out in a variety of ways. it's broke, just fix it. In some cases "eye for an eye" needs to be administered for sure.
Lol! If you wanted to drive me insane or torture me for information you could tie me down and make me watch The View. Oy! Can't stand that show, but hey, I like shows that you wouldn't like. My favourite channel on the tube is History International. I know that lots of people are bored to tears by that kind of TV.
As to the Kennedys, the orginal statement regarding JFK was that people thought he was going to bring on the end of time. Lol! I was not around back in those days, but I bet the same SDAs who have prdicted each president since then would be "the one" really went nuts over him.
That brings me back to the topic of apocalyptic fears about each president. I am somewhat alarmed by some of the tactics I see that fit with other patterns, but I will not discuss that now. But, I do take issue with the use of every new thing as another means of trying to terrify people into submission to whatever apocalyptic direction a person or group wants them to take.
We live in a time of unprecedented peace on this earth. There are fewer and smaller wars, we haven't had a major natural disaster in over a century, economies go up and down but globally they are holding well above lines that would be disastrous. I don't buy into the idea that we are in a time of terrible turmoil. Being an avid student of world history, that doesn't wash with me.
Since WW2 there have been a few minor wars and that is all. Up through WW2 wars were conducted with the policy of targeting the civilians and killing as many of them as possible, and through most of history, the victors walked away with all of the conquered nation's valuables, including the young people as slaves. Now civilian casualties are largely avoided, we rebuild the conquered country, take nothing from them, tax our own people to provide for the people we conquered and the issue of slavery is moot. Also, with U.S. military bases and carrier fleets completely surrounding the globe, other super-powers present and keeping control of their allies, and the ever present threat of nuclear anihilation, war and unrest is kept to a minimum. All of us super powers have allies with assets and business that we have to protect and that keeps most of the world in a forced state of peace.
The last major natural disaster occured in 1883. The island of Krakatau blew in a volcanic eruption that was heard over 3,000 miles away. It spread ash and sulfur around the entire world within days and caused a global drop in temperature that resulted in famines and a huge death toll globally. The earth's temperature did not normalize for five years. This came on the heels of a mini ice age that had taken the lives of millions, but actually resulted in the emergence of the potato as an accepted food because it was an underground crop that could grow in the very short summers they had and survive the cold. Prior to that, there was the black plague that decimated many of the earth's populations and is actually considered one of the factors in bringing about the ice age as millions of acres of farmland returned to forest as the populations died off. Going back further we see where terrible super volcanoes like Yellowstone would have eliminated most living things on entire continents, there were asteroid strikes like the one in the Gulf of Mexico that would have created a wall of water over 5,000 feet high that washed across the North American continent and was only stopped by the Rocky mountain range. We could go on and on.
Then there is the matter of religious persecution. We are in a period of the least violence in religious persecution in millenia. Although there are pockets of violent religious persecution in in several Muslim countries, even where repression exists in countries like China, it is moderate.
The point of all this being that we do not live in a time when all heck is breaking loose on the earth and when there are wars and rumours of wars, and pestilence, and natural disasters like never before.
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Hhhmmm. The Scott Peterson case comes to mind. As well as the Danielle Van Dam case in San Diego County. I went searching for that little girl on three different occasions before another volunteer found her lifeless body under a tree in the east part of the county. That was horrifying.
I LOVE the History Channel!!! I'll watch the history of anything! LOL!!!
Here's the kicker, I am in favor of the death penalty. Sure it has not been administered equally, but in the Bible there was a death penalty. We know by the number of people upon whom it was served out in a variety of ways. it's broke, just fix it. In some cases "eye for an eye" needs to be administered for sure.
Cool! A fellow History watcher! They have alot of reruns, but I end up watching many of the shows over and over and learning more each time. Between History and History International I have enough TV.
I am also in favour of the death penalty, but I am concerned that it NOT be applied to innocent people. That is a horrifying thing. There are many cases where there is absolutely no question at all and in those cases I am all for it. Especially in those cases where children are murdered, where it was planned out, where there were multiple murders, gang type murders, etc. In those cases where mothers or fathers murdered their kids I would call for the death penalty regardless of depression or any of the other emotional conditions pleaded. Can you think of any murder worse than that of your own child?
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There ya' go, Snoopy!
Hhhmmm. The Scott Peterson case comes to mind. As well as the Danielle Van Dam case in San Diego County. I went searching for that little girl on three different occasions before another volunteer found her lifeless body under a tree in the east part of the county. That was horrifying.
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I followed both of those cases. They happened right around the time of the case I was on. In fact, there were two other cases where a father killed his wife and children besides the case I was on and the Scott Peterson case - all in the same couple months.
Hhhmmm. The Scott Peterson case comes to mind. As well as the Danielle Van Dam case in San Diego County. I went searching for that little girl on three different occasions before another volunteer found her lifeless body under a tree in the east part of the county. That was horrifying.
I LOVE the History Channel!!! I'll watch the history of anything! LOL!!!
Here's the kicker, I am in favor of the death penalty. Sure it has not been administered equally, but in the Bible there was a death penalty. We know by the number of people upon whom it was served out in a variety of ways. it's broke, just fix it. In some cases "eye for an eye" needs to be administered for sure.
Cool! A fellow History watcher! They have alot of reruns, but I end up watching many of the shows over and over and learning more each time. Between History and History International I have enough TV.
I am also in favour of the death penalty, but I am concerned that it NOT be applied to innocent people. That is a horrifying thing. There are many cases where there is absolutely no question at all and in those cases I am all for it. Especially in those cases where children are murdered, where it was planned out, where there were multiple murders, gang type murders, etc. In those cases where mothers or fathers murdered their kids I would call for the death penalty regardless of depression or any of the other emotional conditions pleaded. Can you think of any murder worse than that of your own child?
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Well sort of,
This may sound terrible, but after a child is molested and they live, what kind of mental life do they live and how will it affect others? I think mentally they are distroyed. Even tho they survive. How cruel to distort and destroy their freedom of thought. Mental disability caused by this I think sometimes is worse then death if they do not grow up yet to become the same. And the pedifiles that get a way are the most evil. and yet they are protected by families who hide it.
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This is true, Tinka. We see far too many suffering from the effects of molestation. However, because, we have this hope and it is in Jesus Christ. While they live, there is yet hope for them. We know that Jesus can heal and restore. They deserve a chance at that hope, and to become powerful witnesses to others in the smae situation for Him. We ARE called to be witnesses.......witnesses testify to what they know for themselves.......right?
Well sort of,
This may sound terrible, but after a child is molested and they live, what kind of mental life do they live and how will it affect others? I think mentally they are distroyed. Even tho they survive. How cruel to distort and destroy their freedom of thought. Mental disability caused by this I think sometimes is worse then death if they do not grow up yet to become the same. And the pedifiles that get a way are the most evil. and yet they are protected by families who hide it.
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This is true, Tinka. We see far too many suffering from the effects of molestation. However, because, we have this hope and it is in Jesus Christ. While they live, there is yet hope for them. We know that Jesus can heal and restore. They deserve a chance at that hope, and to become powerful witnesses to others in the smae situation for Him. We ARE called to be witnesses.......witnesses testify to what they know for themselves.......right?
A big amen to that! You preach that word dear lady! Preach it loud!
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This is true, Tinka. We see far too many suffering from the effects of molestation. However, because, we have this hope and it is in Jesus Christ.
While they live, there is yet hope for them. We know that Jesus can heal and restore. They deserve a chance at that hope, and to become powerful witnesses to others in the smae situation for Him.
No truer statement. Do you have statistics on just how many make it and lead undisturbed lives? Those are the ones I am referring to "the ones that go down" and don't make it. Remember the statement of EGW. "Thousands will go down without ever........." This is why you use the justice system to undo those that cause the distruction of the ones that don't make it. How can they "witness"?
We ARE called to be witnesses.......witnesses testify to what they know for themselves.......right?
A big amen to that! You preach that word dear lady! Preach it loud!
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Just reading over what happened a year and half ago. Quite amazing of the input back then .....before and about Obama. Some will never admit to the dive of America as a year and half later we are now given the view of proof of what he is all about. :ROFL: Not a funny matter anymore! Some say political is not in our agenda as Christians. But Christians watch political as prophecy is revealed. new thread could read now...
Heart of America DECEIVED!
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What was that flash of white I saw? Whew!! scared me!
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What was that flash of white I saw? Whew!! scared me!
Naa, what flashed by was on black and white and viewable, readable, and deciveable. It's already feel-able. Soon reality will settle in...too late. Wonder how long he will get away with it all. People cried for a king and they got one!! :ROFL
a Socialist King. Take from the poor and feed more to the select rich, the King and his cronies. Just watch a little longer. You've been wrong before!
Just guessed what you might be talking about! Had a hard time syphoning that one. Guess I'm stupid in such cliches. But I still can figure perception once I gather facts.
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Never mind, Tinka. You know that I am already aware of your views, and where they are based. No need to run around in circles again. :-)
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:-)
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People want everything for nothing- if they want socialism, why don't they move to a socialistic country 1st and see if they like it? :purr:
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LOL!!! You are bad! Bad Princess! :ROFL:
What was that flash of white I saw? Whew!! scared me!
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People want everything for nothing- if they want socialism, why don't they move to a socialistic country 1st and see if they like it? :purr:
When we all get to heaven we will all share the wealth though none of us deserve it. Only those who are willing to except everything for nothing will be in heaven, Jesus will have paid it all, all to him we owe. I just spent a month in the country of Kenya there they have very few if any social programs as a result we have street kids and massive hunger and poverty. I question those who are so worried that someone else will receive something as though they have lost something themselves. They laud there own accomplishments as though they have worked so hard and deserve the things they have when in fact they were given, though no work or effort themselves, blessings from God. We Christians long for a land without sin where everyone lives and shares the wealth that God so freely undeservedly gives. Now, if you don't like freebies why don't you move to the side where you have to pay (hell) purr;
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The British have a new conservative (REPUBLICAN?) prime minister today. Will he remove the social benefits?
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People want everything for nothing- if they want socialism, why don't they move to a socialistic country 1st and see if they like it? :purr:
When we all get to heaven we will all share the wealth though none of us deserve it. Only those who are willing to except everything for nothing will be in heaven, Jesus will have paid it all, all to him we owe. I just spent a month in the country of Kenya there they have very few if any social programs as a result we have street kids and massive hunger and poverty. I question those who are so worried that someone else will receive something as though they have lost something themselves. They laud there own accomplishments as though they have worked so hard and deserve the things they have when in fact they were given, though no work or effort themselves, blessings from God. We Christians long for a land without sin where everyone lives and shares the wealth that God so freely undeservedly gives. Now, if you don't like freebies why don't you move to the side where you have to pay (hell) purr;
Mrst53,
You are right in all aspects, you just cannot take the "justification" of hand outs of certain groups. This alone makes the political difference we are all suffering by. They fail to realize that in heaven "One" will not work while the other eats. Heaven is "not free either" doing nothing and always taking. We will earn it under "obedience to the Love of God" and individual "giving" and not forced "national" and not under wrong theories that they spend more time in devising how to get for free and cliches' that people do waste their time in understanding out of these groups. I'm still dense in their lingo that they devise for "ignorant" white flashes. Don't waste my time on such garbage as I speak in sometimes bold, brash english and straight to the understandable point and am quite all American.
Oh, and I know you are not Adventist as I think you spoke once if I remember correctly and I sure hope that you do not judge them all by some of this trash that has been on here. Believe me, I read on here for years now even before I posted and discovered "unbelieveable imposters" of the true SDA. Seeing this, I could not refrain from posting. But am glad you came on to voice yourself too. So speak out your views.
They want to bring America down to where they can live here and change it..like the other countries. They are the" imposters" to change what God built America for no matter what examples they try to give. They don't understand God's control of even the poor in dire places as they continually do voodoo and similar aspects and reject "His Son."
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Who me? :cat:
LOL!!! You are bad! Bad Princess! :ROFL:
What was that flash of white I saw? Whew!! scared me!
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This is what Isaiah 65 says of the New Jerusalem
21-And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22-They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
People want everything for nothing- if they want socialism, why don't they move to a socialistic country 1st and see if they like it? :purr:
When we all get to heaven we will all share the wealth though none of us deserve it. Only those who are willing to except everything for nothing will be in heaven, Jesus will have paid it all, all to him we owe. I just spent a month in the country of Kenya there they have very few if any social programs as a result we have street kids and massive hunger and poverty. I question those who are so worried that someone else will receive something as though they have lost something themselves. They laud there own accomplishments as though they have worked so hard and deserve the things they have when in fact they were given, though no work or effort themselves, blessings from God. We Christians long for a land without sin where everyone lives and shares the wealth that God so freely undeservedly gives. Now, if you don't like freebies why don't you move to the side where you have to pay (hell) purr;
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This is what Isaiah 65 says of the New Jerusalem
21-And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22-They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
People want everything for nothing- if they want socialism, why don't they move to a socialistic country 1st and see if they like it? :purr:
When we all get to heaven we will all share the wealth though none of us deserve it. Only those who are willing to except everything for nothing will be in heaven, Jesus will have paid it all, all to him we owe. I just spent a month in the country of Kenya there they have very few if any social programs as a result we have street kids and massive hunger and poverty. I question those who are so worried that someone else will receive something as though they have lost something themselves. They laud there own accomplishments as though they have worked so hard and deserve the things they have when in fact they were given, though no work or effort themselves, blessings from God. We Christians long for a land without sin where everyone lives and shares the wealth that God so freely undeservedly gives. Now, if you don't like freebies why don't you move to the side where you have to pay (hell) purr;
So true, Isaiah does say that. Because, the God of heaven shall supply the wood and the food and the ability and everything needed free of charge. For some to imply that this statement implies some semblance of the republican agenda is crazy. Jesus would say" in my fathers house are many mansions if it were not so I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you The reason for the building and planting is because in the New Heaven the war mongering will not be present and people will be industrious not because of need but for pleasures sake not to survive. The evil Republican swines who hate the will of God (not all) would use God to be selfish and heartless and self pleasing. Heaven is a free for us handout that we do not deserve (the price is paid completely by God (Jesus) with no effort by man. Yes, we are our brothers keeper responsible to aid them in some cases without them deserving it the same as God does for you and I. It is the thought of many on this site that would misrepresent Jesus through the written word. Again, I have spent the last month in a country that have people of like mind (thank God all are not like that).
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Let me myself clear. What I meant by living in a socialistic country was paying the taxes to support ALL the socialistic programs that go with along with socialism. I have NO problem with helping those who NEED it. I DO have a problem with giving handouts to those who WON'T WORK. I am all for helping the poor, widows and the orphans. The organized churches of today will be held responsible for NOT following those scriptures.
As far as Jesus Christ dying for my sins without my deserving it. You are right, He did :amen: I praise Him everyday for that. I may not be a SDA, but Jesus Christ has saved from my sins and lives in my heart. If He didn't, I wouldn't care a fig about the situation with TS.
I did not mean to upset anyone, but I believe in a Republic and I believe in people working for what they get. It's what this country was founded on. I have worked since I was 12, and I worked for 44 years.
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Amen!
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Actually, mrst53, this country may have started with those hardworking puritan prilgrims.....God bless 'em! However, it ended up being actually really established as far as laws and a cohesive union is concerned by white men who got slaves to work for them on land given to them in mariage to their wives(and then they would tip down to the slave quarters and sired children by Kizzy(general) and all her female famiy members. I am not sure they were hard working at all. Now, I do know about families who worked and still work the land, factories, jobs etc., and I basically know that is what you meant, but you may need to find a different way to phrase it. Our "founding fathers" founded a country for rich white men, and that is all. The Constitution did not apply to women(through whom they got their wealth(land), nor blacks(who worked that land) when they penned it.
Sure, there are people who won't work(believe me, I have some in my family, as I am sure do most of you), and they are the very visible minority, especially if they are black. So, you all are proposing cutting programs to those who do need the help in order to avoid enabling those you believe don't deserve it? For those who are interested, I will in PM explain why this so very racist, and many of you do not even realize it. Some realize, but just "spin" it, believing that no one will know it when they see it.
And then again, I asked this question: How did we, as Christians, get from the ideal of the first church where all brought what they had. Those with more gave more, those who had little or none, gave little or none, but ALL got what they needed when they needed it? As I scanned, I think I did see someone say something about none of us deserving the Great Gift given by Jesus Christ...................and we cant' seem to make the connection................sigh....we have such a long way to go...................
Let me myself clear. What I meant by living in a socialistic country was paying the taxes to support ALL the socialistic programs that go with along with socialism. I have NO problem with helping those who NEED it. I DO have a problem with giving handouts to those who WON'T WORK. I am all for helping the poor, widows and the orphans. The organized churches of today will be held responsible for NOT following those scriptures.
As far as Jesus Christ dying for my sins without my deserving it. You are right, He did :amen: I praise Him everyday for that. I may not be a SDA, but Jesus Christ has saved from my sins and lives in my heart. If He didn't, I wouldn't care a fig about the situation with TS.
I did not mean to upset anyone, but I believe in a Republic and I believe in people working for what they get. It's what this country was founded on. I have worked since I was 12, and I worked for 44 years.
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Let me myself clear. What I meant by living in a socialistic country was paying the taxes to support ALL the socialistic programs that go with along with socialism. I have NO problem with helping those who NEED it. I DO have a problem with giving handouts to those who WON'T WORK. I am all for helping the poor, widows and the orphans. The organized churches of today will be held responsible for NOT following those scriptures.
As far as Jesus Christ dying for my sins without my deserving it. You are right, He did :amen: I praise Him everyday for that. I may not be a SDA, but Jesus Christ has saved from my sins and lives in my heart. If He didn't, I wouldn't care a fig about the situation with TS.
I did not mean to upset anyone, but I believe in a Republic and I believe in people working for what they get. It's what this country was founded on. I have worked since I was 12, and I worked for 44 years.
This country was not founded on people working for what they get, that is the big lie or elephant in the room. The fact is that this country was taken by forced prospered through slavery and wrote lies in the history books to gloryfy some of the wrongs done. Let me make myself plain as possible; I believe God has blessed this country and I love it and the freedoms it brings, however it too can stand improvement.The programs this country offers, abused by some, still is a wonder to the world. In many of the third world countries that are not blessed by social programs the people suffer tremendously beyond our (in America) comprehension. ----I have long since learned from traveling to many third world countries and seeing thousands suffer, who in my estimation are more, much more worthy than myself, the benefit of social systems. There is no perfect system, thus it is foolish to condemn a program because some lazy people or criminals misuse it.------ Praise the Lord that you have been able to work for 44 years since the age of twelve. But, I can attest to you that there are thousands mostly women and children who would love to work but through no fault of there own are not able to.The orphanage I visited was full of children abandoned in need of the gift of love, whether through taxes or donations or volunteer service, lets call it what it is a hand out.
Formatting checked by Johann
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In some of the many countries I have lived in some of the wealthy people who are able to pay for their medical care, never did much work. Some inherited their wealth, managed to buy stock, used their means to gain political influence, making laws and tax rules to benefit the rich.
The people who work are heavily taxed, making it impossible for them to have substantial savings and impossible to pay their medical fees nor leave much of an inheritance for their children who also have to work and pay heavy taxes.
I hope not too many of you have experienced this situation.
I believe God has blessed America - a wonderful country. Are we open for any further blessings?
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What other countries and people think!
Ever wonder why we have to depend on the foreign press to find out what's "really" going on in our own country. It's a good thing that Obama and the democrats don't own the Canadian press.. Here is what Howard Galganov predicts for Barack Hussein Obama - PLEASE READ:
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Barack Hussein Obama:
I Told You So – Yes I Did
By Howard Galganov
Montreal, Quebec , Canada
When Obama won the Presidency with the help of the LEFTIST Media, Hollywood And Entertainment Liberals, Ethnic Socialists (ACORN), Stupid Non-Business Professionals and Bush Haters, I wrote: It won't take six months until the People figure this guy out and realize how horrible a mistake they've made. And when they come to that realization, the damage to the United States of America will be so great it will take a generation or more to repair - IF EVER.
The IDIOTS who not only voted for the Messiah, but also worked [hard] to promote his Lordship, are now left holding the bag.
Here are two things they will NEVER do: They will NEVER admit to making a blunder out of all proportion by electing a snake-oil salesman with no positive social history or management experience of any kind. They will NEVER take responsibility for the curse they've imposed upon the immediate and long-term future of their country.
In essence, the people responsible for putting this horror show in power are themselves responsible for every cataclysmic decision he makes and the consequences thereof.
In just six months, the Messiah's polls are showing the following:
1. On Healthcare Reform - He's going under for the third time with polling well Under 50 percent, even within his own Party. Even though he might be able to Muscle a Healthcare Reform Bill by using Chicago BULLY tactics against his Fellow Democrats, it will just make things worse.
2. On Cap and Trade (Cap and Tax) - The Fat-Lady is already singing.
3. On the Stimulus Package (Tax and Spend) - His popularity is in FREE-FALL.
4. On the TARP package he took and ran with from President Bush - It's all but Good-Night Irene.
5. On the closing of GITMO and "HIS" war on what he no longer wants called the War On Terrorism - He's standing in quicksand with his head just about to go under.
6. On a Comparison between himself and George W. Bush at the same six months into their respective first term Presidencies - Bush is ahead of him in the Polls.
7. On a comparison between He Who Walks On Water and the 12 preceding Presidents between WW II and now - Obama ranks 10th.
8. On a poll just conducted, that asks who would you vote for today between Obama and Mitt Romney - It's a dead heat. Between Obama and Palin - Obama's ONLY ahead by 8 points and she hasn't even begun to campaign. It seems to me that Obama wants to be everywhere where he shouldn't be.
He's personally invested in 'totally insulting' America's ONLY REAL Middle Eastern ally ( Israel ) in favor of Palestinian Despots and Murderers. He's traveling the world apologizing for the USA while lecturing others on how to do it right, when in fact and truth he has no experience at doing anything other than getting elected.
He went to the Muslim world in Egypt to declare that America IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION while he heaped praises on Islam, where he compared the "plight" of the Palestinians to the Holocaust.
The Russians think he's a putz, The French think he's rude.
The Germans want him to stop spending.
The Indians want him to mix his nose out of their environmental business.
The North Koreans think he's a joke, The Iranians won't acknowledge his calls.
And the British can't even come up with a comprehensive opinion of him.
As for the Chinese, he's too frightened to even glance their way. [After all, China now owns a large portion of the United States ..]
Maybe if America's first Emperor would stay home more, travel less, and work a little bit instead of being on television just about everyday or stop running to "papered" Town Hall Meetings, perhaps he would have a little bit of time to do the work of the nation.
In all fairness, it wasn't HARD to be RIGHT in my prediction concerning Obama's presidency, even in its first six months, so I'm going to make yet another prediction:
OBAMA WILL PROBABLY NOT FINISH HIS 4-YEAR TERM, at least not in a conventional way.
He is such a political HORROR SHOW, and so detrimental to the USA and his Own Democratic Party, that the Democrats themselves will either FORCE him to resign or figure out a way to have him thrown out.
Who knows, maybe he really isn't a BORN US Citizen and that's a way the Democrats will be able to get rid of him. [He is a citizen, but not a naturalized citizen with both mother and father being US citizens.]
Or - MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, the Democrats will make Obama THEIR OWN LAME DUCK PRESIDENT.
I don't believe the Democrats have nearly as much love for their country as they do for their own political fortunes. And with Obama, their fortunes are rapidly becoming toast.
If you agree with this email please pass it along to everyone you know! If you don't agree with it, then just delete it and be part of the greatest problem this country has ever seen! My guess is, you don't think this "CHANGE" is what you expected either.
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This was the only thing I found on Howard.
Le Mercredi 3 septembre 2008 | Mise en ligne à 12h47 | Commenter Commentaires (48)
Des nouvelles de Howard Galganov
galganov.jpg
Photo Le Droit
Vous vous souvenez de Howard Galganov ? L’Anglo-Québécois le plus virulent de l’Histoire récente, qui sévissait dans les années 1990, toujours là, derrière les manchettes, avec son bidon d’essence, pour nourrir le feu de joie linguistique…
Eh bien, ce bon Howard n’a plus de tribune téléphonique à Montréal, mais il poursuit sa vaillante lutte contre le français en Ontario, apparemment. Dans l’Est ontarien, plus précisément, où il lutte contre l’affichage bilingue. Avec menaces de poursuite, et tout et tout.
Il semble cependant que Gilles Rhéaume, intrépide fantassin du fait français, soit à ses trousses, si je me fie à ce que Le Droit rapporte, sous la plume de Jean-François Dugas. M. Rhéaume a porté plainte contre Galganov pour supposés crimes haineux et, nous assure-t-il, les autorités compétentes font enquête. La charge de Galganov contre l’affichage bilingue à Russell, selon M. Rhéaume, est dénoncée à l’échelle de la francophonie. Rien de moins.
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Actually, mrst53, this country may have started with those hardworking puritan prilgrims.....God bless 'em! However, it ended up being actually really established as far as laws and a cohesive union is concerned by white men who got slaves to work for them on land given to them in mariage to their wives(and then they would tip down to the slave quarters and sired children by Kizzy(general) and all her female famiy members. I am not sure they were hard working at all. Now, I do know about families who worked and still work the land, factories, jobs etc., and I basically know that is what you meant, but you may need to find a different way to phrase it. Our "founding fathers" founded a country for rich white men, and that is all. The Constitution did not apply to women(through whom they got their wealth(land), nor blacks(who worked that land) when they penned it.
Sure, there are people who won't work(believe me, I have some in my family, as I am sure do most of you), and they are the very visible minority, especially if they are black. So, you all are proposing cutting programs to those who do need the help in order to avoid enabling those you believe don't deserve it? For those who are interested, I will in PM explain why this so very racist, and many of you do not even realize it. Some realize, but just "spin" it, believing that no one will know it when they see it.
And then again, I asked this question: How did we, as Christians, get from the ideal of the first church where all brought what they had. Those with more gave more, those who had little or none, gave little or none, but ALL got what they needed when they needed it? As I scanned, I think I did see someone say something about none of us deserving the Great Gift given by Jesus Christ...................and we cant' seem to make the connection................sigh....we have such a long way to go...................
Let me myself clear. What I meant by living in a socialistic country was paying the taxes to support ALL the socialistic programs that go with along with socialism. I have NO problem with helping those who NEED it. I DO have a problem with giving handouts to those who WON'T WORK. I am all for helping the poor, widows and the orphans. The organized churches of today will be held responsible for NOT following those scriptures.
As far as Jesus Christ dying for my sins without my deserving it. You are right, He did :amen: I praise Him everyday for that. I may not be a SDA, but Jesus Christ has saved from my sins and lives in my heart. If He didn't, I wouldn't care a fig about the situation with TS.
I did not mean to upset anyone, but I believe in a Republic and I believe in people working for what they get. It's what this country was founded on. I have worked since I was 12, and I worked for 44 years.
Mrst53,
Now with that "great explanation" of purple ink, you can readily see what the problem is. Forefathers mistakes give new generation the "rights" for handouts.
They just don't get it. This new generation has been given much equally...Rascism is now a black problem. I have black friends that do not think this way and you will never hear them talk of it as they are just as much American as the Whites. Past History is gone. But there are many dwellers of past history that still carry it to "taunt others" and use it under the banner of "discrimination". Yes, there used to be discrimination but the whites and Martin worked together to change it. If now laid back history dwellers would stop this, then all would stop -as reason and effect are still in play with the ignorance of moving on to bettter life and harmony. Most black and white in this age want this. If most of that above explantion you do not think is right then why was it so important for them to have a first black president no matter what he stood for. They did not even try to figure out the details. Just get him in. But Obama was the great deceiver of the poor and knowing this... HE USED IT. and that was more wicked then anything. plus his agenda. Believe me there are many black men that would have been truly a good American President and I for one would welcome any that can stand up to the American Values as again they were the best for knowing to work the land and what it takes to do it. That is experience most useful for good morals and the way of the people. But then you get the group of what you just read and it appears the blocks are blocked until Jesus returns. I feel is is quite a block of Harmony living. Your point was well taken as I do not know of any whites that speak differently as you spoke your reasoning. Of course I realize there are just as bad whites that have laid down their ignorant same back in time evils but it is not the majority. An American is an American and BO does not in anyway give sanction to what America was built on. His God is not the God of this Nation!
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This was the only thing I found on Howard.
Le Mercredi 3 septembre 2008 | Mise en ligne à 12h47 | Commenter Commentaires (48)
Des nouvelles de Howard Galganov
galganov.jpg
Photo Le Droit
Vous vous souvenez de Howard Galganov ? L’Anglo-Québécois le plus virulent de l’Histoire récente, qui sévissait dans les années 1990, toujours là, derrière les manchettes, avec son bidon d’essence, pour nourrir le feu de joie linguistique…
Eh bien, ce bon Howard n’a plus de tribune téléphonique à Montréal, mais il poursuit sa vaillante lutte contre le français en Ontario, apparemment. Dans l’Est ontarien, plus précisément, où il lutte contre l’affichage bilingue. Avec menaces de poursuite, et tout et tout.
Il semble cependant que Gilles Rhéaume, intrépide fantassin du fait français, soit à ses trousses, si je me fie à ce que Le Droit rapporte, sous la plume de Jean-François Dugas. M. Rhéaume a porté plainte contre Galganov pour supposés crimes haineux et, nous assure-t-il, les autorités compétentes font enquête. La charge de Galganov contre l’affichage bilingue à Russell, selon M. Rhéaume, est dénoncée à l’échelle de la francophonie. Rien de moins.
:canada: (laugh) Johann, does this mean good or bad? Can only read some words but don't know the French.
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:canada: (laugh) Johann, does this mean good or bad? Can only read some words but don't know the French.
Depends on which side you are.
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smile, I bet you've been a good, kind pastor :goodpost: but the worst place to be is on the fence with no side ;) :usa: is my side :thumbsup:
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See, Tinka, the problem is that for some strange reason you think that we went off to equality Oz because of the efforts of those in the civil rights movement.......not true............Issue just off the top of my head.........it took 40 years after Dr. King's(BTW, I didnt' knowyou knew him personally so that you refer to him with such familiarity) death for us to even get a black President.....and he was the first one to get Secret Service from the threats just for running...and for the christian right, he is the devil incarnate, basically because you believe he is going to give undeserving black folks all kinds of handouts. Racism is everyone's problem. They still follow black people around stores to see if they are going to shoplift anything, while the white people are robbing them blind. There are still "restricted areas" where blacks are discouraged from buying homes.....crosses are still burned on lawns, employment discrimination is alive and kicking. I am not sure where you live, but just know that racism....white against black....is still alive an kicking the go good ole' US of A. It did not end with the civil rights movment. Now that you have been informed, I truly expect for you to stop telling that falsehood.
Yes, I know you have your friends, but you know, after all this time, your friends have never come on here to tell me, nor any other black person that trash they feed you to stay on your good side. I told you before there were blacks who helped the slavers, slaves who sold out those trying to escape, and the list goes on. It does not surprise me that you have friends who sell out their own.
Now, I am not for lazy people of any race. I was born and raised upper middle class, and still work hard at two jobs everyday to make it. I don't get the benefit of a single social program. However, I do know that there are those....of ALL raaces.....in need and need these programs to survive. My point is when did we get so heartless.
Mrst53,
Now with that "great explanation" of purple ink, you can readily see what the problem is. Forefathers mistakes give new generation the "rights" for handouts.
They just don't get it. This new generation has been given much equally...Rascism is now a black problem. I have black friends that do not think this way and you will never hear them talk of it as they are just as much American as the Whites. Past History is gone. But there are many dwellers of past history that still carry it to "taunt others" and use it under the banner of "discrimination". Yes, there used to be discrimination but the whites and Martin worked together to change it. If now laid back history dwellers would stop this, then all would stop -as reason and effect are still in play with the ignorance of moving on to bettter life and harmony. Most black and white in this age want this. If most of that above explantion you do not think is right then why was it so important for them to have a first black president no matter what he stood for. They did not even try to figure out the details. Just get him in. But Obama was the great deceiver of the poor and knowing this... HE USED IT. and that was more wicked then anything. plus his agenda. Believe me there are many black men that would have been truly a good American President and I for one would welcome any that can stand up to the American Values as again they were the best for knowing to work the land and what it takes to do it. That is experience most useful for good morals and the way of the people. But then you get the group of what you just read and it appears the blocks are blocked until Jesus returns. I feel is is quite a block of Harmony living. Your point was well taken as I do not know of any whites that speak differently as you spoke your reasoning. Of course I realize there are just as bad whites that have laid down their ignorant same back in time evils but it is not the majority. An American is an American and BO does not in anyway give sanction to what America was built on. His God is not the God of this Nation!
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smile, I bet you've been a good, kind pastor :goodpost: but the worst place to be is on the fence with no side ;) :usa: is my side :thumbsup:
I was a staunch Republican for about 70 years. Even voted for Eisenhower. Have you done better than that?
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It is interesting to see how both politics and religion divide people into categories. The people in each category feel superior to those in the others based on the factors emphasized, and those factors become focal to the point of exclusion of the factors that the other side embraces. Each side loses the possibility of balance in their fervour to emphasize the points that make them feel superior, and de-emphasize the points that make the other side feel superior. Both points are good and valid, and balance requires both, but pride keeps both sides from it.
Republican = Strength, national security, hard work, dicipline, and economic strength.
Democrat = Social justice, compassion, and equality.
Taken together they eqaul balance, but the need to feel and project superiority keeps a mutual exclusivity that precludes that possibility. The verbage in the above partisan posts are a clear example of this, and reflect that need to feel superior, and to denigrate the people on "the other side" as inherently inferior.
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Now that is one good example; for your Republican View
Now take the adjectives and compare with Bibical knowledge as those were excellent adjectives to use to describe how the Bible uses them.
Strength, (coming from belief in God from our "inspired writers" or forefathers,
National security (Respect for freedom, patriotism, respect for those who gave their all for us with the American flag representing the blood shed.)
Hard Work (knowing that your work will benefit you, your family, others and your church for being thankful for the above.)
Discipline, (because you have freedom of choice, persevering, determined, and inventive then all the above bring on "Economic strength.
and likewise now for the Democratic View.
Compassion,(is the most important word to use for correct application.. and here is where it is hard to understand but something we cannot control or force everyone to have as that will take their own individuality away that the Lord will judge on individual basis. Compassoion comes from Love and God.
Social Justice is forcing every person to a National government pay out to what THEIR CHOICE IS AND NOT YOURS. Your choice is gone for the stewarship of your own work and money. They give it on a whim never voting or asking of any approval. Just like now all the money people have been bailed out while you keep giving and giving until you cannot live.
Every person should be full of compassion. But not to the extent that you force Social justice,
Equality is the only thing on earth that everyone has equal being in the sight and love of God. There is absolutely nothing else as we are all individuals of different backgrounds, intelligence, talents and abilities. Just like individual snowflakes. It seems noble compassion to force "sharing the wealth" but it is wrong because that brings on less equality economically and forces the theory of Social justice whether they earn it or not and it ends up that the poor are also forced to do this whether they think so or not. There was a time the unions helped immigrants get jobs. But now it is pay the union so you can get work. No more protection because of race. Just give the money. The unions have demanded all your money and on and on it goes.
The place for Social justice is not financial equality, but a harmony of love, actions, places of choice to live, shop, play, school and that is what I feel as been accomplished. The rest is up to the individual as their character permits then the same equal chance to live, work, and accomplish. That is the real freedom. When a nation uses force to pay someone else's agenda --that is not freedom!!!
How can one change the Scripture when it clearly states that the "poor will be with us always." That alone is what God says and there we have no right to force against His agenda for whatever His purposes are. We cannot overrule Him and forcefully change His Plans of Creation of difference and why. again the word Compassion and only compassion comes from God for his brother. We must help as much as we possibly can on individual basis but never ever vote for the force of all to do it. That is why I also have been Republican. But I also believe in latter times there were very good democrats. Kennedy, for one and more but it is no longer that type of Democratic Organization of old. This is a new sounding drum that is now corrupt on both parties....Therefore on individual basis of compassion we must seek out a part of a country, part of a community, part of a neighborhood, part of a church for any individuals that we come in contact with and above all part of the family of God to help as our own assest of our own work permits and for close instruction for this upcoming trauma that America is headed for. The widow gave 2 bits and was accounted for giving the most . That is the plan, that is our instructions, and that is how I believe. But yes, we can all discuss for better understanding of one another.
But I thought your words were perfect.
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See, Tinka, the problem is that for some strange reason you think that we went off to equality Oz because of the efforts of those in the civil rights movement.......not true............Issue just off the top of my head.........it took 40 years after Dr. King's(BTW, I didn't' knowyou knew him personally so that you refer to him with such familiarity) death for us to even get a black President.....and he was the first one to get Secret Service from the threats just for running...and for the christian right, he is the devil incarnate, basically because you believe he is going to give undeserving black folks all kinds of handouts. Racism is everyone's problem. They still follow black people around stores to see if they are going to shoplift anything, while the white people are robbing them blind. There are still "restricted areas" where blacks are discouraged from buying homes.....crosses are still burned on lawns, employment discrimination is alive and kicking. I am not sure where you live, but just know that racism....white against black....is still alive an kicking the go good ole' US of A. It did not end with the civil rights movement. Now that you have been informed, I truly expect for you to stop telling that falsehood.
Yes, I know you have your friends, but you know, after all this time, your friends have never come on here to tell me, nor any other black person that trash they feed you to stay on your good side. I told you before there were blacks who helped the slavers, slaves who sold out those trying to escape, and the list goes on. It does not surprise me that you have friends who sell out their own.
Now, I am not for lazy people of any race. I was born and raised upper middle class, and still work hard at two jobs everyday to make it. I don't get the benefit of a single social program. However, I do know that there are those....of ALL races.....in need and need these programs to survive. My point is when did we get so heartless.
Mrst53,
Now with that "great explanation" of purple ink, you can readily see what the problem is. Forefathers mistakes give new generation the "rights" for handouts.
They just don't get it. This new generation has been given much equally...Racism is now a black problem. I have black friends that do not think this way and you will never hear them talk of it as they are just as much American as the Whites. Past History is gone. But there are many dwellers of past history that still carry it to "taunt others" and use it under the banner of "discrimination". Yes, there used to be discrimination but the whites and Martin worked together to change it. If now laid back history dwellers would stop this, then all would stop -as reason and effect are still in play with the ignorance of moving on to better life and harmony. Most black and white in this age want this. If most of that above ex plantion you do not think is right then why was it so important for them to have a first black president no matter what he stood for. They did not even try to figure out the details. Just get him in. But Obama was the great deceiver of the poor and knowing this... HE USED IT. and that was more wicked then anything. plus his agenda. Believe me there are many black men that would have been truly a good American President and I for one would welcome any that can stand up to the American Values as again they were the best for knowing to work the land and what it takes to do it. That is experience most useful for good morals and the way of the people. But then you get the group of what you just read and it appears the blocks are blocked until Jesus returns. I feel is is quite a block of Harmony living. Your point was well taken as I do not know of any whites that speak differently as you spoke your reasoning. Of course I realize there are just as bad whites that have laid down their ignorant same back in time evils but it is not the majority. An American is an American and BO does not in anyway give sanction to what America was built on. His God is not the God of this Nation!
Your wrong again, racism is not everyone's problem because if it was no one would get to heaven.. It is the ones that never lived it but relive past history over and over from past generation shoes and not their own in this day and time. You have freedom to have 2 jobs, middle class living, choice of living where you want, education, using your vote for your agenda because of past history. Your free the same as me. The amazing point is voting to make us not free!!! You would think you could learn from your endeavor to relive and relive in the past instead of believing the change of force on American soil where many are buried and gave their lives for the cause of freedom. Life, liberty and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. You voted to take it out. Is this ignorant or what?? over promises never kept and over a Socialist agenda?? How do like going to pay the high taxes that was given to all the bailout of the rich?? and he keeps going until I think the red necks will shut him down.
Believe it or not!
Actually, the race to watch in great depth is the financial in the world filtrated by the Jews as in the beginning of being blessed for financial.
How have they used this blessing?? The holocaust was horrific, I imagine God could have stopped it. But in History back then they confiscated all businesses by ownership, and using all money to control all businesses. The people rose up against in fierce disbelief of actions. (Will this happen in America yet for same reasons) Hitler! Should the holocaust have happened, we think not but there was a cause why it did. It was the Lords business as He sure well knew the action. Maybe you should change your talents of History to another race and think upon the history of that and why and leave the petty stuff go as America protects the unbelievers of Jesus on forced National basis. The Jews are not going to be saved on National basis but individually the same as us. They did it. They are still doing it because they believe they are going to build a "New Jerusalem with New Temple" and use every means to still take all they can as a Nation while the Muslims concoct their agenda. Obama is a Muslim with Muslim agenda and beliefs whether you admit it, believe it or not. and he is in our White house no matter where he born from. They also have an embedded agenda from their roots. It seems to be a curse! a blockage that will not be removed on a national basis. Individual Jews must come to the Lord on Individual basis and so the horrible curse of racism reasoning as well. It's over --even if the rebels still raise their rebel flag on an individual basis as they choose to die for believing against "freedom for all" but America as a whole as come to "freedom for all" while individuals try to "change" it to their own individual "hates". Christians cannot be in these shoes from the past, now or in the future. The one equal race to be in the "Sons and daughter of Jesus" and standing for His agenda and Helping to bring in all races. and there is no racism allowed in this race. Plain and simple.
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Watching for signs from different perspectives?
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Yes, Johann
The picture is greater and the devil uses much to distract the real deed of oppression of the people.
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Tinka,
when I wrote my comment, I was not hinting at race. In fact, I was referring to the lazy persons I knew in my past neighborhood in WV and they were VERY MUCH WHITE!- One young man, age 26, worked 1 month, decided he didn't like it, quit. Now he has found a way, not only to collect SSI for he and his wife(perfectly healthy and not working) and 2 children($600 per month) plus $660 in food stamps per month. He lives with his dad, hunts and fishes and mows yards. There is NOT a thing wrong with him. He JUST DID NOT LIKE WORKING EVERYDAY :ROFL: Like who does.
Tinka, I am sorry, if your ancestors were slaves. Mine were indensured servants. They ended up in the hills of WV, living and working in the mines. I did not have a middle income upbringing. My mom ironed for people while I grew up. She made less than $3000.00 a year, when $7000.00 was poverty level. I never knew from 1 day to the next whether I would be in the same house or my alchoholic dad would tic off the landlord and we would be moving again.
But the past is past and that is where it needs to be and we need to learn from it and move on. I know it can't be forgotten and I don't think we should, just so we don't repeat it, but we can't continue to hold GRUDGES and teach our children to hold these grudges or the WORLD
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New problem....Tinka, black people still "live" racism each and everyday. There is no way I can convince you, who has never experienced racism before, of this, because you choose to believe otherwise. It would be so much easier for us to leave the passed in the passed if it weren't influencing our present and future.
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mrst53,
(smile) sometimes it gets a little confusing on posting but you probably meant to address PrincessDi instead of me (tinka) with this message. The mix up may have been my fault for not addressing my post directly to Di and you thought I was addressing you back.
Di was addressing me as we sort of have discussions on racism and not pertaining to your posting of which we welcome.
I am not black and i post a lot about not having racism as a christian although racism is yet practiced I feel in the lives of non christian. and Di posts about all the evils about the slaves and relives it a lot although I believe she has not went through it and practices the freedoms that are still left the same as me.
My ancestors were not slaves but many whites before were burned at stake for heretics in past generations so I do not know which is worst other then the fact we in a new generation each have our part to put it away as "it cannot enter heaven" with some still in this state. So, you will see at times debating going back and forth. Di and me disagree on much, including religion as we are I think in the same denomination. In fact it is an experience of never seen until I got on the posts to realize such difference. It is true that all my life i have worked very hard, on farm, business, 6 children and many grandchildren and greats and political and business people because of business that my outside friends has been local church only. The post bring out many different ways and how people believe about religion that is quite eye opening and the Internet has given quite a grandstand of church problems as I imagine in all religions. and this thing going with the TS saga is the worst of a kind. In fact this man has every chance from religion to know his "desires" were evil and destroying, his family knew, his brother knew, and yet done nothing to stop it. A man of this sort is so evil that he took his talents to best hide them is a church. So I feel he is in double jeopardy with God.
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New problem....Tinka, black people still "live" racism each and everyday. There is no way I can convince you, who has never experienced racism before, of this, because you choose to believe otherwise. It would be so much easier for us to leave the passed in the passed if it weren't influencing our present and future.
Di, I am fully away that this sort of thing still goes on and probably will until it all comes to an end, but we cannot keep it going it to relive and relive until it instills into the new generation of children that have not faced it and make them feel inferior. (This is what does it you know). It should never be spoken of. These are the actions that keep it still going. Maybe I guess I see on tv out in California where everthing is beyond belief at this day and time things happen but where I am and very close to a huge city where black population is almost equal we find a very swell, friendly, and mostly what I call harmony living. It gives me great encouragemet and feeling. I just do not make any difference in people except honestly for one thing....is it profiling??? what has 911 done to me???I get scared when I see muslims in the Wal-mart. Maybe thats what they want so we all get out and go home and they can take over so there now you can call me what you want. Is that what your feeling with whites even if its been almost hundred years ago??? and why it keeps going??? What happened at 9-11 is now and in sight.
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It is now and in your sight, which is the only thing you consider important. What to you mean these actions should never be spoken of? Just ignore them? So you do live in OZ? Good for you. Teaching the generations to come the truth does not make them inferior. Especially since it is apparent that we have yet to learn from these same mistakes. Where do you get this stuff or the authority to repeat it? We teach our children, then teach them what they must do to overcome in this imperfect work. Since we are Christians, we should also be teaching our children that in spite of what man tries to do, God is still in contorl and what He has for them, it is for them and no man can stop.
Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them..................we must first admit that there is a problem before it can be solved...........both are true. However, is we do as you say and never mention it, they will fester and grow in the darkness of ignorance. Not only is who happened on 9/11 now and in our sight, if you are black, brown, and now muslim, so is racism, and those bombs are going off on a daily basis in our lives, and you want us to ignore them, right. Go back to who ever that is feeding you these trash, and tell I said to stop lying to you, and you stop being so gullible.
And stop being so paranoid.....they want you to leave so they can take over??? You have got to be kidding me! You said it yourself, Dr.King and those fighting for civil rights did so that we ALL might live here together. It is only white supremist who are calling for minorities to leave so they can like in a lily white world. So no, I don't wish all white people would leave the US so the black people can take over.....that is more than paranoid If we start with realizing that we are ALL, ALL children of God and brothers and sisters in Christ, we will do away with a whole lot of this maddess. But then again, that is the reakl fear of white men[general] isn't it? That someone, especially those who they have oppressed to conquer this country will rise up and take over........they fear.........pay back from the blacks, from the native Americans, and whom ever they see getting too powerful. Some repentance and healing is needed to allow God to take that fear.
Forgive me if I sound a little angry, I do admit to some frustration. To put it bluntly, I just am not taking it well that there is a caucasian woman who never ever in her life experienced racism or discrimination of any kind, telling me, who lives with it on a daily basis that firstly she doesn't believe it still exists, and if it does I should just ignore it. Please everyone, including Tinka, forgive me, if I bow out this thread. It is extreme unwise to continue a conversation with someone who is unsafe and means me and those of Children of God who are of color no good.
Di, I am fully away that this sort of thing still goes on and probably will until it all comes to an end, but we cannot keep it going it to relive and relive until it instills into the new generation of children that have not faced it and make them feel inferior. (This is what does it you know). It should never be spoken of. These are the actions that keep it still going. Maybe I guess I see on tv out in California where everthing is beyond belief at this day and time things happen but where I am and very close to a huge city where black population is almost equal we find a very swell, friendly, and mostly what I call harmony living. It gives me great encouragemet and feeling. I just do not make any difference in people except honestly for one thing....is it profiling??? what has 911 done to me???I get scared when I see muslims in the Wal-mart. Maybe thats what they want so we all get out and go home and they can take over so there now you can call me what you want. Is that what your feeling with whites even if its been almost hundred years ago??? and why it keeps going??? What happened at 9-11 is now and in sight.
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Too bad you just can't get it straight what people actually are saying and then you come back with off the wall different meaning of something I never said or meant nor really watch the total meaning of what people are saying. I am not the only one that you do this to. but your right in no sense discussing. It is never in my heart, but constantly on yours. So be it.
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Racism is very real, very active, and very current. There are the white supremacists who advocate for all jewish, hispanic, and asians to be gone; There are groups like the black jews who advocate for all jewish, hispanic, and white groups to be gone... in Mexico and Guatemala black people are verboten, in various countries in Africa anyone not black is in constant danger of being killed, in Myanmar almost anyone is fair game, in the black parts of many major American cities anyone not black is as likely to be killed as those who are not hispanic in their parts. Violent racism is very real. No race or ethinic group is exempt. White, black, hispanic, and asian are all equally racist and not one has the right to claim any moral superiority over the other in that area. None.
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That has been very well acknowledged, stated in less words but the point I was making that Di fails to understand is that as long as that is in ones heart and as long as racism remains with individuals....they can forget heaven!!! That has been in every post stated one way or the other but she just dones not read that part. She don't want to hear what is truth even in the DS saga she is always confused what some posters over and over answer questions that already been displayed over and over. America has tried as a whole in legislature and law, but it still takes the individual one, by one. So why be so dense about it. She fails over and over to understand that point and keeps it raw and vivid in her own head to anyone making a claim that as long as you harbor racism heaven is out. A true Christian, a true Adventist will not harbor,or dwell, forgive, and maybe not forget but shut up instead of instilling in their children to carry it on, spreading the "hate" through their justification of repeating over and over past history. There is hardly a word from Di that is not a justification of ones own desires . It is just like teaching sex to a 5-6 year old. You've already trained "em". and look where sex is at now.... It's a long way worse then then 40-50's. Displayed in everything you look at. tv. signs, clothes, food, toys. etc.etc. Racism is from the devil and look how he has used it. Di very well keeps it alive in her own mind and simply saying, is that she called my friends turn coats because they on individual basis are smart enough to realize the situation and are more christian then her to rise above the devils snare. again racism is not going to enter the gates. she claims I'm a racist through her accusations and just a lily white. So what sort of Christian is this???
As long as one does this they are wasting their time being a leader in SS.
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Princessdi,I am sorry that you would be afraid of me, because I am white. Should I be afraid of you, because you are black? My husband hates blacks as a group, because 15 of them beat him up in Viet Nam, because he was WHITE. Before that he wasn't, because he grew up in the ghetto area of DC and was the only white child in the neighborhood. My friends growing up were black, because the white kids wouldn't play with me, because I lived on a farm- I wasn't good enough for them. I didn't even know what racism was until high school. When I went back to my 30th reunion, the person thAT welcomed me the most, was one of my black friends that I had grown up with. AND by the way, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THEM AS BLACK OR WHITE FRIENDS, they were JUST FRIENDS!
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Mrst53,
That is exactly how it was with me, I never knew racism while growing up and was always taught that Jesus loved all and never had parents that taught me other then that. and my friends are the same as you have. Now isn't that amazing to what has been spoken? That is all I was trying to explain in a nut shell. You made it simple.
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Ok, Mrst53, what part of my post said I would be afraid of you. I am not afraid of anyone and I fear only God. Lord forgive me for saying this, but I hope it is taken int he way it is meant. I have friends, true friends from over the years of every race, creed and color. I could not possily be afraid of white people, as I was raised in the surburbs where our family was the first black family in our uppper middle class housing development(John Madden, coach of the Oakland Raiders, lived in the same development at the time). Violence because of race is unacceptable to me, no matter who is the offender. However, blacks cannot be rascist in most cases as white can in most cases, because to be racist, you have to be in a position to oppress or discriminate against that person because of his race. ialso thought of all of my friends the same way. Prejudice and discrimination is wrong no matter the situation.
Tinka, racism doesn't continue to live, or jeopardized my soul's salvation because I acknowledge it happens. I don't keep it in my heart, but I acknowledge it so I know what I need to do to live the life God intends for me, inspite of the enemy's attempt to destroy me through racism of others. We teach our children, so that they can see how our forefathers over came in spite of overwhleming opposition, and to instill in them the strong lineage from which they come. Nothing can hold them back, unless they allow it. We acknowledge to good and bad in our history to inspire our children. Lying to them as if slavery and racism did and does not exist, is just that, lying to them. It is unfair to send them out in a world unprepared. The enemy has used racism, but the problem is not that the victims, know they are victims, but that they are victimized at all. It is the victimzers who put their soul salvation in jeopardy. The victim only loses their soul, if they allow the anger and hate to consume and ruin their lives. Not for simply acknowledging that the wrong took place.
Yes, I did call your friends turncoats, and tell them that I added cowards today. And yes you are most definitely as racist as they come. The presence of a few misguided black folks in your life, does not negate that fact. What kind of Christian the the acknowledgements of those truths make me?........an honest one.
Now, forgive me for posting again to this madness.
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I think we have gotten way off track of the posted subject- but maybe the Lord wanted us to clear the air on this subject :scratch:
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MrsT, I think your husband's story summarizes it very well. He was victimized by a group of racist people who attacked and beat him because of the colour of his skin. As a result of this trauma he grew to resent that group and lump all black people together as racists who would beat him. And from one pebble drop like that, the circles can grow to where an isolated event, or even a group of events can become something much larger than it actually is, and the fear and hatred that results can reach out to encompass the innocent just because of the colour of their skin, and nothing more.
As I walked through Time's Square one day, I stopped to listen to a group of men who appeared to be preaching from a stage. They were dressed in robes and had various charts. I came close to see the charts and one of them started shouting at me and telling me that all white people like me would be driven out of the USA or killed and this would become the land of the Black Jews. I was rather shocked. And on further investigation found that they are a very large group of radical racists who not only want to kill all white people, but also black "traitors" who don't think like them. Their headquarters was in Harlem right by Rev Sharpton's offices. I couldn't help but think what black people must feel like when they hear that kind of rhetoric from the various radical white racist groups. I didn't walk away from that experience feeling that by virtue of those weirdos, all black people were like them, but I know that some people do. Just as some black people feel that all white people are racist against black people because of the few who actually are.
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I guess I would be a traitor. LOL!! What kind of stuff is that?! It is at times quite embarassing.
In the immortal words of Rodney King......."Why can't we just all get along". LOL!!!
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Lol. I think most of us prefer to get along and just enjoy life, but there are always a few flies in the ointment who can't stand people who get along with each other.